Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow) - Linux

This is a discussion on Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow) - Linux ; raylopez99 wrote: > On Oct 24, 1:47Â*am, Richard Rasker wrote: > >> Your reading skills obviously haven't matured above kindergarten level. >> First off, the man nowhere says that "Linux sucks", or even anything that >> can be read as ...

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Thread: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

  1. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    raylopez99 wrote:

    > On Oct 24, 1:47Â*am, Richard Rasker wrote:
    >
    >> Your reading skills obviously haven't matured above kindergarten level.
    >> First off, the man nowhere says that "Linux sucks", or even anything that
    >> can be read as the equivalent.

    >
    > Your opinion versus mine.


    You suggest that mr. Gassee expresses the opinion that "Linux sucks".
    Nothing he said in that article even came close. So your subject line is
    rather misleading at least.

    >> > On the desktop, Linux is trouble again, but much less so than in
    >> > server farms. For consumers, as opposed to technically versed
    >> > sysadmins, ease of use is still a strong plus for Windows. I bought
    >> > two identical Asus EeePC netbooks, one running Windows, the other a
    >> > Linux distribution. Windows is still much easier to use and update,

    >>
    >> "Windows is easier to update"? I surmise he means that

    >
    > You surmise. We decide. And 99% of people have chosen non-Linux over
    > Linux.


    Ah, you work for Microsoft? That would explain both your arrogance and your
    failure to properly understand perfectly normal English. And oh, people
    don't "choose" non-Linux over Linux; they simply don't get offered Linux as
    a rule. If you look at a market segment where Linux /is/ offered
    (netbooks), roughly half of all people choose Linux over Windows. And
    they're quite happy with their choice -- I know several people who own a
    Linux Asus EEE PC, and they have no complaints whatsoever.
    And oh, desktop Linux probably accounts for at least 2-3% of all desktop
    users, not this 0.7% you Wintrolls keep blabbing about

    >> > Linux is still a little rough on normal humans. One example out of
    >> > many glitches: the version I used didn't remember Wi-Fi access points
    >> > and passwords. I had to re-enter everything each time I turned the
    >> > machine on.

    >>
    >> OK, he's got a point here. This kind of thing is a bit of a nuisance.

    >
    > "BIT"? I'd say a byte or even a gigabyte of nuisance.


    I did a bit of research on this particular issue, and it appears that he
    tried setting the network settings via the systray applet, which indeed are
    lost upon reboot. This is by design (although I don't think it's a
    particularly good design, as it's confusing). Settings entered in
    the "official" network configuration tool are properly saved and restored.

    So I'd say this is a case of half user error, and half bad design. Which
    begs the question how hard this man has tried to get familiar with his
    Linux machine.
    A novice Mandriva user of mine called me and complained about the lack of
    MSN. When I pointed her to Kopete, she was rather amazed. "Gee, not just
    MSN, but ICQ too. And the webcam is working! Thanks!"

    >> > This type of problem has prevented Linux from gaining much ground on
    >> > the desktop.

    >>
    >> Plain wrong. Microsoft's dominance has prevented Linux from gaining much
    >> ground on the desktop, together with market inertia. From its position as
    >> a small OS, Linux needs to be vastly better than Windows to gain a larger
    >> audience. People need an incentive to change, especially in a market
    >> which is both very completely Microsof-centric, and rather Linux-hostile.

    >
    > My god! Are you serious? I could not AGREE with you on the above
    > more! Absolutely right. Linux needs to be vastly better indeed. At
    > least honestly is taking a front seat to advocacy in the preceding
    > paragraph.


    For average users, desktop Linux is about as good as Windows. It's better in
    some respects (security, stability, pricing, choice), but still worse in
    others (hardware and software support, availability). For most power users,
    Linux *is* vastly better.

    >> Linux machines easily outperform Windows machines at that:
    >>
    >> "Google running Windows Server isn't realistic. Not for price reasons but
    >> because Microsoft's server software isn't technically suitable for
    >> large "server farms" such as Google's."

    >
    > I have conceded on numerous occasions that Apache running on Linux
    > beats Windows Server 2005 on Windows, for enterprises. But the issue
    > is a desktop replacement to Windows. Not going to happen.


    >> My own trusty old PII 233MHz CPU 196MB RAM box here fulfils no less than
    >> eight server roles, without a hitch so far (three years going so far,
    >> with the only downtime due to mains and network outages).


    > OK, well, your hobby is showing.


    It's rapidly becoming business for me.

    > I also play chess as a hobby, and
    > program as a hobby, but I don't consider myself a chess professional
    > nor a professional software programmer, though some of my play and my
    > code approaches professional quality at times. And nobody is going to
    > run a PII server these days.


    But people do run powerful, silent and energy-efficient Mini-ITX based
    machines these days. I should know, I just sold my third lightweigt mail
    server to a happy customer.

    > Hardware and software go hand in hand, like Intel goes with Microsoft.


    Um, Intel goes fine with Linux too. And when talking about the desktop,
    Intel actually shuns Microsoft's latest desktop product ...

    >> But in no way does this journalist say or even suggest that "Linux
    >> sucks".
    >>

    >
    > I agree. It was Gasse who said it sucks.


    Please point out where he said it -- I can't find it.


    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  2. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:45:08 -0700, raylopez99 wrote:

    > Wow. This is big. This guy's opinion cannot be dismissed easily.
    > And notice he has no ax to grind, he's in nobody's camp.
    >
    > Game over for Linux fans.
    >
    > RL
    >
    > On the desktop, Linux is trouble again, but much less so than in
    > server farms. For consumers, as opposed to technically versed
    > sysadmins, ease of use is still a strong plus for Windows. I bought
    > two identical Asus EeePC netbooks, one running Windows, the other a
    > Linux distribution. Windows is still much easier to use and update,
    > Linux is still a little rough on normal humans. One example out of
    > many glitches: the version I used didn't remember Wi-Fi access points
    > and passwords. I had to re-enter everything each time I turned the
    > machine on. This type of problem has prevented Linux from gaining much
    > ground on the desktop.
    >
    > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13953_3-10069777-80.html
    >
    > Guest post: Jean-Louis Gassée explains how Microsoft's future business
    > model will borrow from both Apple and Google to compete with the free
    > world of software.
    >
    > October 19, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
    > How Microsoft will compete with 'free'
    >
    > Jean-Louis Gassée is a general partner at Allegis Capital. Prior to
    > his venture capital career he founded Be, Inc., which was sold to Palm
    > in 2001. Gassée also held several positions at Apple Computer. He
    > started Apple France in 1981, and in 1985 became president of the
    > Apple Products Division. Earlier in his career Gassée as worked at
    > Data General, Exxon Office Systems and Hewlett-Packard.


    Linux is the answer by which the Goyem stick their heels in the grid
    and fight back. In the end the Empire will loose, exactly
    because the Goyim's passwords are not stored inside Linux, hence will
    never be caught unguarded by the leverage hedgefund pirates on all
    these fantasy islands under brit-ish maritime rule.

    Robert
    --
    Robert M. Stockmann - RHCE
    Network Engineer - UNIX/Linux Specialist
    crashrecovery.org stock@stokkie.net


  3. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    Richard Rasker wrote:

    > raylopez99 wrote:

    ....
    >> Your opinion versus mine.

    >
    > You suggest that mr. Gassee expresses the opinion that "Linux sucks".
    > Nothing he said in that article even came close. So your subject line is
    > rather misleading at least.


    ...

    >> It was Gasse who said it sucks.

    >
    > Please point out where he said it -- I can't find it.


    Well? I'm still waiting for you to provide the quote where mr. Gassee says,
    suggests or merely implies that "Linux sucks".



    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  4. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    Richard Rasker wrote:

    >> You suggest that mr. Gassee expresses the opinion that "Linux sucks".
    >> Nothing he said in that article even came close.


    Yes, several statements clearly and strongly suggested Linux is sucky.



    >> So your subject
    >> line is rather misleading at least.


    Misleading is far better than the flat-out lies you and the "advocates*"
    post almost constantly, ie you with your "women on trains who say Vista
    sucks" and various computers for which "no XP drivers exist."



    > Well? I'm still waiting for you to provide the quote where mr. Gassee
    > says, suggests or merely implies that "Linux sucks".


    Gassee definitely suggests and implies it - and I'm in full agreement - but
    he doesn't say it straight out: Windows is still much easier to use and
    update, Linux is still a little rough on normal humans. One example out of
    many glitches..."




  5. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    DFS wrote:

    > Richard Rasker wrote:
    >
    >>> You suggest that mr. Gassee expresses the opinion that "Linux sucks".
    >>> Nothing he said in that article even came close.

    >
    > Yes, several statements clearly and strongly suggested Linux is sucky.


    I tend to disagree.

    >>> So your subject
    >>> line is rather misleading at least.

    >
    > Misleading is far better than the flat-out lies you and the "advocates*"
    > post almost constantly, ie you with your "women on trains who say Vista
    > sucks"


    I'm amazed by your powers of English interpretation and truth-finding.
    When a venerable computer pioneer who didn't express any stronger opinion on
    Linux than that the desktop variety "is still a little rough", you and mr.
    99 traslate that as "Linux sucks" -- while you call me a liar when a girl I
    actually met expressed her opinion on Vista as "ik vind het maar niks", and
    I translated this into "Vista sucks".

    > and various computers for which "no XP drivers exist."


    I'd never be so stupid as to boldly claim that "there are no drivers". What
    I actually said was a rather more careful "... It appears that there are no
    XP drivers..." -- as this was what the owner of the machine was told by the
    vendor. But I guess believing a Microsoft box peddler makes me a liar. OK,
    I promise to never again believe someone who sells Microsoft crap. There,
    are you happy now?

    Besides, even if XP drivers exist, they're often nigh impossible to find --
    let's have a little test: please give me a link pointing to Broadcom's XP
    drivers for the BCM4315 wireless card, different from the one I found
    previously. I'd be most interested ...

    And even then, the average user doesn't stand a chance in hell if the
    drivers pertain to essential hardware (e.g. the HD) -- because he'll have
    to perform a delicate process of well over a dozen steps to merge these
    with the XP CD. So that's why computer vendors prefer to simply tell their
    customers that "XP drivers don't exist for that machine." And indeed, when
    the hapless buyer goes hunting for 'em anyway, he'll soon find that it's an
    an almost impossible task.

    >> Well? I'm still waiting for you to provide the quote where mr. Gassee
    >> says, suggests or merely implies that "Linux sucks".

    >
    > Gassee definitely suggests and implies it - and I'm in full agreement -
    > but he doesn't say it straight out:


    So you're all just putting words in mr. Gassée's mouth he never actually
    said? Or perhaps even meant to say? Tsk tsk ...

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  6. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:20:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, raylopez99 belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> On Oct 23, 9:40Â*am, Matt wrote:
    >>
    >> Are you stupid or what? I posted the excerpt where Gasse says it sucks
    >> in the OP. I repeat it here:
    >>
    >> "I bought
    >> two identical Asus EeePC netbooks, one running Windows, the other a
    >> Linux distribution. Windows is still much easier to use and update,
    >> Linux is still a little rough on normal humans. One example out of many
    >> glitches: the version I used didn't remember Wi-Fi access points and
    >> passwords. I had to re-enter everything each time I turned the machine
    >> on. This type of problem has prevented Linux from gaining much ground
    >> on the desktop. "

    >
    > Well, either Asus screwed up the configuration, or this guy did.


    As usual, it's not exactly cut and dry, but the guy wasn't using it
    correctly.

    I just tested this on a Eeepc900 with the default Andros install using my
    internal WPA encrypted WiFi AP.All the below was just tried for real by
    myself as described, not more than 10 minutes ago.

    I used the 2nd unit in my article, the one with the Dremel machining:-
    http://wifi.homelinux.com/docuwiki/doku.php?
    id=eeepc900_external_rear_antenna_connector_mod&s[]=asus

    This unit ended up dual boot, (quite by accident) as I installed Debian
    Lenny on the second SSD, and left the first SSD alone.

    There are two network related icons on the Xandros desktop:-

    1) Wireless Networks
    2) Network

    If I click on 1) it asks for the WPA key every time, however on the first
    connection to a new WiFi access point, the connection info along with the
    key, goes into 2) above.

    After rebooting, clicking on 2), then selecting the WiFi network and
    'connect' will connect without re entering the key after a reboot, and
    the AP itself is obviously remembered via its ESSID etc.

    Closing the Eeepc while connected to the WiFi AP, puts the unit to sleep
    and disconnects the WiFI as it is powered off.

    Opening the lid and hitting any key wakes the Eeepc up, the wifi led
    comes back on, and it reconnects, all automatically.

    Sorry Wintrolls, the Eeepc works perfectly with WiFi, as does the Acer
    Aspire One which I also have.


    HTH
    Terry






    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

  7. Re: Computer Pioneer Jean-Louis Gassee: "Linux sucks" (wow)

    On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:35:07 +0200, Richard Rasker wrote:




    > I did a bit of research on this particular issue, and it appears that he
    > tried setting the network settings via the systray applet, which indeed
    > are lost upon reboot. This is by design (although I don't think it's a
    > particularly good design, as it's confusing). Settings entered in the
    > "official" network configuration tool are properly saved and restored.


    You are 100% correct (nice research). I have just tested it on a real
    Xandros Eeepc900 and it's exactly as you have said above.


    >
    > So I'd say this is a case of half user error, and half bad design.


    Probably no worse than clicking the "Start" button, to stop a Windows PC ?


    >> OK, well, your hobby is showing.

    >
    > It's rapidly becoming business for me.


    It will grow and grow, and you have at least a 10 year head start on any
    Wintrolls that think they can just switch to Linux when they have to, and
    then compete with you.

    Richard, that was a great post and it's so pleasing to see yet another
    technically competent Linux Advocate on COLA.

    No wonder the Wintrolls are looking so sickly these days.

    Cheers
    Terry


    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

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