[News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs - Linux ; Peter Köhlmann wrote: > LusoTec wrote: > >>> That is very different than here... we have about 20% Macs in the home >>> and, maybe, 1% Linux. In the business world, though, Macs are not >>> nearly as common. >> ...

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Thread: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

  1. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    > LusoTec wrote:
    > < snip >
    >>> That is very different than here... we have about 20% Macs in the home
    >>> and, maybe, 1% Linux. In the business world, though, Macs are not
    >>> nearly as common.

    >>
    >> I did not know Macs had such a high user share in the homes. I wounder
    >> why did it not take has well in Europe.

    >
    > It is no surprise at all.
    > A laptop from apple costs about 2 to 2 1/2 times as much as a similar
    > equipped non-apple-laptop
    > The apple desktop-systems are simply overpriced junk
    > In general: European customers simple are not stupid enough as apple needs
    > them to be
    > They know very well that the prices in the states are not nearly as
    > idiotic as they are in europe


    Apple's pricing strategy is not competitive but why did not Apple made a
    stronger effort to compete in Europe? If Apple can have a profit in the USA
    with lower prices why can they achieve the same in Europe?

    Looking at the iPhone campaign we can see that Apple knows how to sell so
    why not do the same for the Mac PCs?

    > Add to that the bad reputation apple earned (rightfully) for treating
    > their customers as ****ty as they did in several cases,
    >
    > and their microscopic marketshare in europe is no surprise at all
    > Linux has a *much* higher market share in europe than apple has


    I only have a significant experience in Portugal regarding market share.
    Here Macs are rare but I don't have values to give.

    Regards.

  2. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    LusoTec wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >> LusoTec wrote:
    >> < snip >
    >>>> That is very different than here... we have about 20% Macs in the home
    >>>> and, maybe, 1% Linux. In the business world, though, Macs are not
    >>>> nearly as common.
    >>>
    >>> I did not know Macs had such a high user share in the homes. I wounder
    >>> why did it not take has well in Europe.

    >>
    >> It is no surprise at all.
    >> A laptop from apple costs about 2 to 2 1/2 times as much as a similar
    >> equipped non-apple-laptop
    >> The apple desktop-systems are simply overpriced junk
    >> In general: European customers simple are not stupid enough as apple
    >> needs them to be
    >> They know very well that the prices in the states are not nearly as
    >> idiotic as they are in europe

    >
    > Apple's pricing strategy is not competitive but why did not Apple made a
    > stronger effort to compete in Europe?


    I don't know, and frankly, it does not interest me.
    Apple computers are overpriced junk, and OSX is garbage compared to linux

    > If Apple can have a profit in the
    > USA with lower prices why can they achieve the same in Europe?


    They could, and I guess they will try to.
    They have made some inroads in germany the last two years, but still their
    marketshare is tiny here. With prices they still ask, it will remain that
    way. Additionally, few people actually think of the bundled software
    (mainly the i-stuff) in other terms as "pure garbage". It is a half hearted
    attempt to bundle some stuff people might see as "valuable", but few here
    actually do.

    > Looking at the iPhone campaign we can see that Apple knows how to sell so
    > why not do the same for the Mac PCs?


    The iPhone is not nearly as successful here as it was in the US.

    >> Add to that the bad reputation apple earned (rightfully) for treating
    >> their customers as ****ty as they did in several cases,
    >>
    >> and their microscopic marketshare in europe is no surprise at all
    >> Linux has a *much* higher market share in europe than apple has

    >
    > I only have a significant experience in Portugal regarding market share.
    > Here Macs are rare but I don't have values to give.
    >
    > Regards.


    Well, our apps are used by a wide variety of customers. Of those, exactly
    *one* actually uses Macs, but not exclusivly.
    Several use linux, though. They ask for native linux-versions. The
    Mac-customer does not. He can use the windows-version and it is OK for him.
    There will probably never be a Mac-version of our apps, simply because
    there is no demand at all. But even if there were 10 customers using Macs
    (in germany alone, that is), it would not warrant doing a Mac-port.

    Although I have started porting the apps (using QT), there still will be no
    Mac-version. QT is available for Mac too, but I still will not bother. The
    initial costs to port it to Mac would not be made back in several years
    --
    Who the **** is General Failure, and why is he reading my harddisk?


  3. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    "Peter Khlmann" stated in post
    4904819b$0$17380$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net on 10/26/08 7:41 AM:

    > LusoTec wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Khlmann wrote:
    >>> LusoTec wrote:
    >>> < snip >
    >>>>> That is very different than here... we have about 20% Macs in the home
    >>>>> and, maybe, 1% Linux. In the business world, though, Macs are not
    >>>>> nearly as common.
    >>>>
    >>>> I did not know Macs had such a high user share in the homes. I wounder
    >>>> why did it not take has well in Europe.
    >>>
    >>> It is no surprise at all.
    >>> A laptop from apple costs about 2 to 2 1/2 times as much as a similar
    >>> equipped non-apple-laptop
    >>> The apple desktop-systems are simply overpriced junk
    >>> In general: European customers simple are not stupid enough as apple
    >>> needs them to be
    >>> They know very well that the prices in the states are not nearly as
    >>> idiotic as they are in europe

    >>
    >> Apple's pricing strategy is not competitive but why did not Apple made a
    >> stronger effort to compete in Europe?

    >
    > I don't know, and frankly, it does not interest me.


    So why reply?

    > Apple computers are overpriced junk, and OSX is garbage compared to linux


    Being that you know *nothing* of Macs, how would you even pretend to know
    this? I use both - and value the strengths of both.

    >> If Apple can have a profit in the
    >> USA with lower prices why can they achieve the same in Europe?

    >
    > They could, and I guess they will try to.
    > They have made some inroads in germany the last two years, but still their
    > marketshare is tiny here. With prices they still ask, it will remain that
    > way. Additionally, few people actually think of the bundled software
    > (mainly the i-stuff) in other terms as "pure garbage". It is a half hearted
    > attempt to bundle some stuff people might see as "valuable", but few here
    > actually do.


    Support? Oh, you are Peter. You will have *none*.

    >> Looking at the iPhone campaign we can see that Apple knows how to sell so
    >> why not do the same for the Mac PCs?

    >
    > The iPhone is not nearly as successful here as it was in the US.


    But it is bigger than the Mac... right?

    >>> Add to that the bad reputation apple earned (rightfully) for treating
    >>> their customers as ****ty as they did in several cases,
    >>>
    >>> and their microscopic marketshare in europe is no surprise at all
    >>> Linux has a *much* higher market share in europe than apple has

    >>
    >> I only have a significant experience in Portugal regarding market share.
    >> Here Macs are rare but I don't have values to give.
    >>
    >> Regards.

    >
    > Well, our apps are used by a wide variety of customers. Of those, exactly
    > *one* actually uses Macs, but not exclusivly.


    You have customers? Suuuuuure.

    > Several use linux, though. They ask for native linux-versions. The
    > Mac-customer does not. He can use the windows-version and it is OK for him.
    > There will probably never be a Mac-version of our apps, simply because
    > there is no demand at all. But even if there were 10 customers using Macs
    > (in germany alone, that is), it would not warrant doing a Mac-port.


    What type products do you claim to make?

    > Although I have started porting the apps (using QT), there still will be no
    > Mac-version. QT is available for Mac too, but I still will not bother. The
    > initial costs to port it to Mac would not be made back in several years


    Um, OK. So?


    --
    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
    conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.


  4. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    LusoTec wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    < snip >

    >> Although I have started porting the apps (using QT), there still will be
    >> no Mac-version. QT is available for Mac too, but I still will not bother.
    >> The initial costs to port it to Mac would not be made back in several
    >> years

    >
    > I develop in GNU/Linux and usually only build for GNU/Linux and Windows,
    > usually using cross-compile in GNU/Linux using MingW and test using wine,
    > but have build environments Windows, GNU/FreeBSD and Mac OS X setup. These
    > build environments are setup in virtual machines.
    >
    > With a single command I can build for them all. It starts the virtual
    > machines, copies the tar ball, uncompresses, configures, makes, tests,
    > packages, copies the package back and terminates the virtual machine. It
    > took some work to get everything automated and I don't use it much but
    > just saying that I can do it makes me look cool. Am I a geek or what?


    Well, I try to not use the wine route, although nearly all windows apps I've
    done the last years work flawlessly in wine.

    So, by using QT I get a source code which compiles on linux, windows and
    OSX, without any change. Works like a treat

    But still, the app(s) are that big and have so many features that it is a
    absolute *must* to test them on their native environment.
    So, I'd not only have to buy the extra OSX QT-licence, I would also have to
    buy a otherwise totally useless Mac to compile / test / run the apps. Since
    anything apple not as slow as a slug on tranquilizer this means real dough
    to hand over, in addition to the QT licence

    No, thanks. I gladly pass that one
    --
    Law of Probable Dispersal:
    Whatever it is that hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.


  5. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > LusoTec wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > < snip >
    >
    >>> Although I have started porting the apps (using QT), there still will be
    >>> no Mac-version. QT is available for Mac too, but I still will not
    >>> bother. The initial costs to port it to Mac would not be made back in
    >>> several years

    >>
    >> I develop in GNU/Linux and usually only build for GNU/Linux and Windows,
    >> usually using cross-compile in GNU/Linux using MingW and test using wine,
    >> but have build environments Windows, GNU/FreeBSD and Mac OS X setup.
    >> These build environments are setup in virtual machines.
    >>
    >> With a single command I can build for them all. It starts the virtual
    >> machines, copies the tar ball, uncompresses, configures, makes, tests,
    >> packages, copies the package back and terminates the virtual machine. It
    >> took some work to get everything automated and I don't use it much but
    >> just saying that I can do it makes me look cool. Am I a geek or what?

    >
    > Well, I try to not use the wine route, although nearly all windows apps
    > I've done the last years work flawlessly in wine.


    I use wine to quickly test a executable but I always end up testing in on
    Windows both in a virtual machine and finally in native mode. I don't
    remember ever having a executable that worked on wine and did not work on
    windows.

    > So, by using QT I get a source code which compiles on linux, windows and
    > OSX, without any change. Works like a treat


    Yes, it does. I also use QT and it is a very portable API.

    > But still, the app(s) are that big and have so many features that it is a
    > absolute *must* to test them on their native environment.


    I test in GNU/Linux (obviously), GNU/FreeBSD and Windows both on a virtual
    machine and on the machine. For Mac OSX I only test in a virtual machine, I
    don't have a Mac computer and have no intention of buying one.

    > So, I'd not only have to buy the extra OSX QT-licence, I would also have
    > to buy a otherwise totally useless Mac to compile / test / run the apps.
    > Since anything apple not as slow as a slug on tranquilizer this means real
    > dough to hand over, in addition to the QT licence
    >
    > No, thanks. I gladly pass that one


    Yep, Mac OSX on a virtual machine is very slow but usually the test are
    fully automated, if it takes 3 hours instead of 30 minutes ... so what!

    Some day I will try to install Mac OSX directly on the hardware. I have read
    somewhere that there are patches that allow it and since I already have a
    license it wont cost me extra.

    Regards.

  6. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ LusoTec on Sunday 26 October 2008 13:20 : \____

    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >> LusoTec wrote:
    >> < snip >
    >>>> That is very different than here... we have about 20% Macs in the home
    >>>> and, maybe, 1% Linux. In the business world, though, Macs are not
    >>>> nearly as common.
    >>>
    >>> I did not know Macs had such a high user share in the homes. I wounder
    >>> why did it not take has well in Europe.

    >>
    >> It is no surprise at all.
    >> A laptop from apple costs about 2 to 2 1/2 times as much as a similar
    >> equipped non-apple-laptop
    >> The apple desktop-systems are simply overpriced junk
    >> In general: European customers simple are not stupid enough as apple needs
    >> them to be
    >> They know very well that the prices in the states are not nearly as
    >> idiotic as they are in europe

    >
    > Apple's pricing strategy is not competitive but why did not Apple made a
    > stronger effort to compete in Europe? If Apple can have a profit in the USA
    > with lower prices why can they achieve the same in Europe?
    >
    > Looking at the iPhone campaign we can see that Apple knows how to sell so
    > why not do the same for the Mac PCs?
    >
    >> Add to that the bad reputation apple earned (rightfully) for treating
    >> their customers as ****ty as they did in several cases,
    >>
    >> and their microscopic marketshare in europe is no surprise at all
    >> Linux has a *much* higher market share in europe than apple has

    >
    > I only have a significant experience in Portugal regarding market share.
    > Here Macs are rare but I don't have values to give.


    I recently read that, at least in Germany, over 6% of the machines come with
    GNU/Linux (that's preinstalls, not installed base). Macs are still popular in
    north America. Maybe places like Japan too...

    Some references...

    Linux Carried Along on Netbooks Wave

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Morvay revealed to Linux Magazine Online that there were no specific figures
    | for Linux netbook sales, but that it lay somewhere in the 40th percentile.
    | Even though this figure seems a little high, it is known that many of the
    | world's netbooks have Linux on board since their first inception 18 months
    | ago.
    |
    | For example, notebooks with Linux make up about 5.5% of the notebook market
    | in Germany...
    `----

    http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/onli..._netbooks_wave

    Linux preinstalls rocket to three per cent

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Microsoft is still be shipped with 93 per cent of all PCs sold through
    | distribution in the UK, according to Context.
    |
    | Yet Linux has nevertheless made an impressive gain.
    `----

    http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...ocket-per-cent

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Roughly 2% of your keyboard is O/S-specific
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
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  7. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > I recently read that, at least in Germany, over 6% of the machines come
    > with GNU/Linux (that's preinstalls, not installed base). Macs are still
    > popular in north America. Maybe places like Japan too...


    I don't know the market share numbers for Portugal. I have searched long and
    hard but without luck.

    As for the installed base, a IDC (idc.com) study reports that 22% of
    organizations (e.g. companies, public administration, private and public
    institutions) use GNU/Linux. If the organization is involved in technology
    (e.g. some industry, energy sector, communications sector) then that value
    goes up to 81%. How those numbers reflect in usage share I don't know.

    Regards.


  8. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ LusoTec on Monday 27 October 2008 21:37 : \____

    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> I recently read that, at least in Germany, over 6% of the machines come
    >> with GNU/Linux (that's preinstalls, not installed base). Macs are still
    >> popular in north America. Maybe places like Japan too...

    >
    > I don't know the market share numbers for Portugal. I have searched long and
    > hard but without luck.
    >
    > As for the installed base, a IDC (idc.com) study reports that 22% of
    > organizations (e.g. companies, public administration, private and public
    > institutions) use GNU/Linux. If the organization is involved in technology
    > (e.g. some industry, energy sector, communications sector) then that value
    > goes up to 81%. How those numbers reflect in usage share I don't know.
    >
    > Regards.


    Be careful of IDC. They get a lot of their revenue from Microsoft and they
    collect numbers that are posed as flattering to Windows. This is well
    documented.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    "Pearly Gates and Em-Ballmer
    One promises you heaven and the other prepares you for the grave. "
    --Ray Noorda, Novell
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  9. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > Be careful of IDC. They get a lot of their revenue from Microsoft and they
    > collect numbers that are posed as flattering to Windows. This is well
    > documented.


    Also, IDC use enquiries to get their numbers, a not the best measurement
    method but I have found no other reports on the subject.

    Getting reliable numbers for GNU/Linux usage is very difficult so you make
    due with what you have.

    Regards.

  10. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ LusoTec on Tuesday 28 October 2008 10:40 : \____

    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> Be careful of IDC. They get a lot of their revenue from Microsoft and they
    >> collect numbers that are posed as flattering to Windows. This is well
    >> documented.

    >
    > Also, IDC use enquiries to get their numbers, a not the best measurement
    > method but I have found no other reports on the subject.
    >
    > Getting reliable numbers for GNU/Linux usage is very difficult so you make
    > due with what you have.
    >
    > Regards.


    It also depends on /which/ numbers. It's easy to find a definition to match
    some desired conclusion.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Ping this IP, see if it responds the second time"
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Swap: 4088500k total, 417880k used, 3670620k free, 264040k cached
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
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