[News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs - Linux ; Hadron wrote: > The Ghost In The Machine writes: > >> On Oct 21, 9:20 am, "Moshe Goldfarb." wrote: >>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:14:13 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote: >>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> > Hash: SHA1 ...

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Thread: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

  1. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Hadron wrote:

    > The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >
    >> On Oct 21, 9:20 am, "Moshe Goldfarb." wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:14:13 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> > Hash: SHA1
    >>>
    >>> > OpenOffice.org 3.0 scores strong first week
    >>>
    >>> > ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> >| The successful introduction of the open source office suite came
    >>> >| despite the group's download servers being temporarily overwhelmed by
    >>> >| demand for the new software last week.
    >>> >|
    >>> >| [...]
    >>> >|
    >>> >| With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already be
    >>> >| installed on up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh said in a
    >>> >| blog post.
    >>>
    >>> Sure.....
    >>> But not for long...
    >>>
    >>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>> Why?
    >>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.

    >>
    >> OK, I'll bite. Why is MSOffice superior?
    >>
    >> Be specific.

    >
    > Less buggy,


    Lies. MS Office has vastly more serious bugs than OpenOffice. I've come to
    the rescue of quite a few MS Office users who got completely stuck with MS
    Office documents which would invariably and consistently crash MS Office.
    These people all thought they'd lost their work -- sometimes days of work.
    These "documents of death" could be opened perfectly well with OpenOffice,
    and after saving these as MS Office documents, MS Office was once again
    able to open and process them without crashing.

    On the other hand, I've NEVER seen OpenOffice choke on a document saved by
    either MS Office or OpenOffice.
    Sure, there are slight deviations in formatting and alignment between MS
    Office and OpenOffice -- but heck, subsequent MS Office versions over the
    years aren't exactly compatible between themselves, to put it mildly.

    > proper scripting


    More lies. OO.o can be scripted perfectly well. It's another scripting
    language, and that makes migrating scripts and macros a huge pain -- but
    there is proper scripting available. I use it extensively in my translation
    work for inserting DTP formatting codes, all sorts of specific
    auto-numbering etcetera.

    > works with documents in 95% of the worlds businesses.


    So does OpenOffice.

    > Why do YOU think? Hint : Even Linonut doesnt use OO at work
    > because it simply does not work with his companies documented.


    I suspect Linonut's company has a policy in place to keep their IT
    infrastructure consistent; this is a sensible decision to prevent people
    from installing whatever has their fancy, potentially causing a serious
    loss of productivity if something goes wrong because the in-house IT geeks
    aren't prepared to deal with unexpected software. NO, this /doesn't/ mean
    that OpenOffice is inferior. It just means that it's generally a bad idea
    to have everyone in an organization install their own preferred software.

    >>> Possibly OpenOffice 3.0 will remedy this, but isn't that what we heard
    >>> with V2.0 ?

    >>
    >> I highly doubt it, as I strongly suspect one of the criteria for
    >> superiority
    >> is simply that it -- whatever "it" is -- is developed/maintained by
    >> Microsoft. Since OO is not, it doesn't qualify.

    >
    > Rubbish. No one ever said that. It works for people and people stick
    > with what works for them. Unfortunately most COLA heads have never
    > worked in a real business do think that writing job applications to the
    > local YMCA is all that people use a WP for.


    I *have* a real business. And I use a word processor in a professional
    manner, complete with templates, scripting and whatnot. And you know what?
    I hardly even noticed my migration from MS Office to StarOffice, over a
    decade ago -- apart from the need to rewrite most scripts/macros from
    scratch. And this latter thing is what keeps a lot of companies away from
    OpenOffice ... as you so eloquently belie every previous utterance of
    yours:

    >> To be fair, there's a certain inertia anyway; if one uses and likes
    >> MSOffice, he's not likely to switch anytime soon, even after he
    >> or she retires.

    >
    > Fair? That's exactly it.


    OK, so you say it yourself: it's plain and simple inertia. The fact that
    everyone uses and knows about MS Office. And the pain of migration,
    especially where scripting is involved.

    But it is NOT an inherent lack of quality of OpenOffice, or the lack of
    proper scripting or whatever. It's perfectly usable for up to 90% of
    current MS Office users -- with only a few percent truly hooked to MS
    Office because of an extensive integration with other Microsoft products.

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  2. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Micoshaft asstroturfing fraudster pounding the sock Moshe Goldfarb
    wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Department of Marketing:


    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:14:13 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> OpenOffice.org 3.0 scores strong first week
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>| The successful introduction of the open source office suite came despite
    >>| the group's download servers being temporarily overwhelmed by demand for
    >>| the new software last week.
    >>|
    >>| [...]
    >>|
    >>| With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already be
    >>| installed on up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh said in a
    >>| blog post.

    >
    > Sure.....
    > But not for long...
    >
    > Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    > Why?
    > They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >
    > Possibly OpenOffice 3.0 will remedy this, but isn't that what we heard
    > with V2.0 ?



    Your post is out of date asstroturfing on behalf of micoshaft corporation.

    Open Office is gaining ground by a million a day at the moment
    and you should not be trivilising the success enjoyed by millions
    because micoshaft is paying you be asstroturfing.

    Asstroturfing by big corporations is illegal in the EU as of 26 May 2008.
    Your asstroturfing post is more reasons why the US should be following suit
    and banning corporations from hiring secretive commie asstroturfers like
    you to distort the workings of the free market.



    | With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already be installed
    on
    | up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh said in a blog post.
    `----

    http://www.computerworld.com/action
    article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9117575

    http://www.openoffice.org


  3. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Richard Rasker wrote:

    > Hadrone quacked:
    >>
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>>
    >>> To be fair, there's a certain inertia anyway; if one uses and likes
    >>> MSOffice, he's not likely to switch anytime soon, even after he
    >>> or she retires.

    >>
    >> Fair? That's exactly it.

    >
    > OK, so you say it yourself: it's plain and simple inertia. The fact that
    > everyone uses and knows about MS Office. And the pain of migration,
    > especially where scripting is involved.
    >
    > But it is NOT an inherent lack of quality of OpenOffice, or the lack of
    > proper scripting or whatever. It's perfectly usable for up to 90% of
    > current MS Office users -- with only a few percent truly hooked to MS
    > Office because of an extensive integration with other Microsoft products.


    Haw. The lying, trolling fsckwit caught by his owns words. Again.

    --
    "Anyone who says Open Office is as good as MS Office is living in
    denial." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark


  4. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Tom Shelton writes:

    > On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    >> Erik Jan wrote:
    >>
    >>> mentally-ill troll wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>>> Why?
    >>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>
    >>>You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    >>>know nothing about it, nothing at all.

    >>
    >> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.
    >>
    >> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    >> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...
    >>

    >
    > I would and do.


    Erik Jan is a complete fool. He has his head in the sand and his arse in
    the air. It's the COLA way. Most stores ship thousands of copies of Office Student/School
    edition.

    Jesus H Christ, even Linonut admits that OO does not cut the mustard for
    his work place.

    I use OO for home because I took the decision to go full OSS/Linux warts
    and all. Sometimes it frustrates me. But not as much as listening to
    liars and arseholes like Willy Poaster proclaiming it "all works" or
    Peter Koehlmann telling me I "pretend" to use Emacs/Gnus and OSS on
    Debian when he's patently talking nonsense. What is wrong with these
    guys? They are loony tunes.

    --
    "The "XP could sink Microsoft" thread his an absolute gem. You'd think
    these advocates were related to Nostradamus!"
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  5. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Richard Rasker belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Why do YOU think? Hint : Even Linonut doesnt use OO at work
    >> because it simply does not work with his companies documented.

    >
    > I suspect Linonut's company has a policy in place to keep their IT
    > infrastructure consistent; this is a sensible decision to prevent people
    > from installing whatever has their fancy, potentially causing a serious
    > loss of productivity if something goes wrong because the in-house IT geeks
    > aren't prepared to deal with unexpected software. NO, this /doesn't/ mean
    > that OpenOffice is inferior. It just means that it's generally a bad idea
    > to have everyone in an organization install their own preferred software.


    No, Hadron is just a lying fsckwit. Other than some "dangerous"
    applications such as an instant messenger, and visible servers (which
    have to have their software vetted by the powers-that-be), we
    pretty much put whatever we want on our machines, including Linux.

    As I note in another response, I use OO for a lot of my documentation --
    as long as editing it in Microsoft "The Corrupter" Word is kept to a
    minimum, no one will notice that the document has been edited by OO.

    There's a slight push toward PDF output, too, which helps even more.

    >> Rubbish. No one ever said that. It works for people and people stick
    >> with what works for them. Unfortunately most COLA heads have never
    >> worked in a real business do think that writing job applications to the
    >> local YMCA is all that people use a WP for.


    Hadron needs to learn the facts of life, instead of viewing the world
    from his own sneering and paranoid "womb with a view".

    Speaking of the facts of life:

    http://www.greaseman.org/sounds/grea...ts-Of-Life.mp3

    --
    Adult, n.:
    One old enough to know better.

  6. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Tom Shelton belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    >> Erik Jan wrote:
    >>
    >>> mentally-ill troll wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>>> Why?
    >>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>
    >>>You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    >>>know nothing about it, nothing at all.

    >>
    >> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.
    >>
    >> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    >> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...

    >
    > I would and do.


    Why????!

    What do you do personally that requires MS Office?

    --
    My father was a God-fearing man, but he never missed a copy of the
    New York Times, either.
    -- E. B. White

  7. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08 20:09:
    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:15:50 +0200, Erik Jan wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08 18:20:
    >>
    >>>> |
    >>>> | With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already be installed on
    >>>> | up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh said in a blog post.
    >>> Sure.....
    >>> But not for long...
    >>>
    >>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>> Why?
    >>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>
    >>> Possibly OpenOffice 3.0 will remedy this, but isn't that what we heard with
    >>> V2.0 ?

    >> You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    >> know nothing about it, nothing at all.
    >>
    >> Erik Jan

    >
    > I know that I have NEVER seen OpenOffice being used in any corporation that
    > I deal with, or my associates deal with.
    >
    > One would think that a free product would quickly take over the market
    > share of an expensive product.
    >
    > It's not happening.
    >


    And what means do you have to determine the statistical value of your
    sample? None at all. the world is much bigger than your neighbourhood.
    Of course you may be right, for all I know. I am only stating that you
    do not have the means to know this. Had you said: I do not see any
    growth of OOo in my neighbourhood, in my professional neighbourhood, I
    would have said nothing, because this would have been a statement of
    fact (I suppose). But your generalization is totally unwarranted and
    reflects badly on your professional standing.

    Erik Jan

  8. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Hadron had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08 22:27:
    > Tom Shelton writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    >>> Erik Jan wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> mentally-ill troll wrote:
    >>>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>>>> Why?
    >>>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>> You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    >>>> know nothing about it, nothing at all.
    >>> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.
    >>>
    >>> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    >>> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...
    >>>

    >> I would and do.

    >
    > Erik Jan is a complete fool. He has his head in the sand and his arse in
    > the air. It's the COLA way. Most stores ship thousands of copies of Office Student/School
    > edition.
    >


    And who are you to use this kind of language? You know nothing about me,
    and wallow in your arrogance. Maybe stores ship thousands of copies of
    some MSOffice edition, so what? This tells nothing at all about adoption
    or rejection of OOo. this is anecdotal evidence at most and nobody knows
    what statistical value this has.

    Erik Jan

  9. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Hadron belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > Erik Jan is .
    >
    > Jesus H Christ, even Linonut admits that OO does not cut the mustard for
    > his work place.


    Wrong /again/ Hadron. Stop putting words in my mouth. OpenOffice "cuts
    the mustard" just fine. The only issue is trying to fully deal with the
    Microsoft formats on large and complex documents with certain features.

    If OO had the dominant installation numbers, or if Microsoft were
    serious about support for open standards, that issue would be of no
    importance.

    > I use OO for home because I took the decision to go full OSS/Linux warts
    > and all. Sometimes it frustrates me. But not as much as listening to
    > liars and arseholes like Willy Poaster proclaiming it "all works" or
    > Peter Koehlmann telling me I "pretend" to use Emacs/Gnus and OSS on
    > Debian when he's patently talking nonsense. What is wrong with these
    > guys? They are loony tunes.


    You need to look in the mirror, and do a serious self-examination. Your
    very attitude turns people against you.

    --
    Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people
    are right more than half of the time.
    -- E. B. White

  10. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Erik Jan writes:

    > Hadron had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08 22:27:
    >> Tom Shelton writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    >>>> Erik Jan wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> mentally-ill troll wrote:
    >>>>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>>>>> Why?
    >>>>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>>> You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know
    >>>>> it. You know nothing about it, nothing at all.
    >>>> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.
    >>>>
    >>>> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    >>>> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...
    >>>>
    >>> I would and do.

    >>
    >> Erik Jan is a complete fool. He has his head in the sand and his arse in
    >> the air. It's the COLA way. Most stores ship thousands of copies of Office Student/School
    >> edition.
    >>

    >
    > And who are you to use this kind of language? You know nothing about
    > me, and wallow in your arrogance. Maybe stores ship thousands of
    > copies of some MSOffice edition, so what? This tells nothing at all
    > about adoption or rejection of OOo. this is anecdotal evidence at most
    > and nobody knows what statistical value this has.
    >
    > Erik Jan


    Yes they do. And it is this reply that marks you as a fool.

    I work in IT and have never, ever seen OO in use. Anywhere. Does this
    mean it isnt used? Of course not. But it DOES mean its in a tiny
    percentage. And I mean tiny. I use it. I know of no one else.

    This is no arrogance on my part. I am saying "I have worked in IT for 20
    years and never seen OO in use in either IT companies or companies we
    service". Therefore I am basing this on facts I have accumulated. This
    is not "arrogance". This is a fact from my experience.

    It does not speak for you. But ALL you say is "maybe it does".

    You are also stretching the truth when you say you no noone who pays for
    personal use. I know plenty. I find it hard to believe you know NONE
    unless you know very few Windows users.


    --
    "If you take both of those factors together then WinXP is a flop, selling
    *less* than Win 98 by a factor of two."
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they the lunacy in advocacy

  11. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Erik Jan writes:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08 20:09:
    >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:15:50 +0200, Erik Jan wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08 18:20:
    >>>
    >>>>> | | With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already
    >>>>> be installed on | up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh
    >>>>> said in a blog post.
    >>>> Sure.....
    >>>> But not for long...
    >>>>
    >>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>>> Why?
    >>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>>
    >>>> Possibly OpenOffice 3.0 will remedy this, but isn't that what we heard with
    >>>> V2.0 ?
    >>> You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know
    >>> it. You know nothing about it, nothing at all.
    >>>
    >>> Erik Jan

    >>
    >> I know that I have NEVER seen OpenOffice being used in any corporation that
    >> I deal with, or my associates deal with.
    >>
    >> One would think that a free product would quickly take over the market
    >> share of an expensive product.
    >>
    >> It's not happening.
    >>

    >
    > And what means do you have to determine the statistical value of your
    > sample? None at all. the world is much bigger than your
    > neighbourhood. Of course you may be right, for all I know. I am only


    Oh god. it's like talking to Phil Da 'tards dumb brother.

    In fact here they are the Linux convention:

    http://www.dvdactive.com/images/revi...2006/2/dd1.jpg

    Enough of that already.

    *snip*

    --
    "If you take both of those factors together then WinXP is a flop, selling
    *less* than Win 98 by a factor of two."
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they the lunacy in advocacy

  12. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    On Oct 21, 1:50 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Tom Shelton belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    > > On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    > >> Erik Jan wrote:

    >
    > >>> mentally-ill troll wrote:

    >
    > >>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    > >>>> Why?
    > >>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.

    >
    > >>>You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    > >>>know nothing about it, nothing at all.

    >
    > >> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.

    >
    > >> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    > >> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...

    >
    > > I would and do.

    >
    > Why????!
    >
    > What do you do personally that requires MS Office?


    Be careful, there are a number of issues here.

    [1] One certainly doesn't *need* Office, anymore than one
    needs a sheet of paper, even for wiping oneself -- let's
    not go too far down *this* path, but did cavemen have
    little rolls to take with them? :-) -- they are tools to
    achieve certain objectives. In the case of MS Office, one
    generally wishes to generate multifont documents with
    embedded pictures, charts, and spreadsheets.

    One can probably also embed videos, but I for one would
    consider that slightly pointless unless one also postulates
    animation capable notebook paper upon which to print
    the results. ;-) Then again, webpages embed videos, so
    now I'm wondering if there is all that much a difference...

    One can certainly generate vaguely similar results
    with OpenOffice, though there's probably a fair number
    of caveats involved -- mostly because I'm not sure
    OO can edit through a chart embedded in a document.
    (Not sure that's a real good idea anyway!)

    Of course one can also generate vaguely similar results
    with clever generation of HTML or XML webpages
    with appropriate or references...

    [2] MS has a head start if one loads Windows on
    one's machine; it turns out "Write" (aka "Wordpad")
    can read Word files without difficulty, and a so-called
    Word file is in fact an OLE container file anyway,
    with a lot of extra stuff therein. (In fact a friend of
    mine is perfectly happy just using Wordpad to generate
    multifont documentation. I frankly don't know what
    extra functionality Word has in this area, though Office
    also includes Excel and Powerpoint.)

    One might contemplate requiring MS to load an
    ODF viewer as part of their Windows OS. ;-)

    [3] The ribbon GUI may be confusing, but it's also
    nice looking to those who aren't actually going to
    use the product. ;-) (I'm given to understand that
    the actual users are less than enthralled therewith,
    and from a general standpoint I can't say I like
    the idea, as it hides information much like menus
    or scrolling forms do. Done well, it might work --
    but I really don't know how well it's done in
    MS Office's case.)

    [4] MS is a trusted solution -- if only because one
    knows it will fail. ;-) But one does have to wonder
    why we still have it after Microsoft's 20+ years of futzups,
    failures, broken promises, goofy notions (who's
    bright idea was it to have a horizontal scrollbar?
    hiding the filename extensions? putting spaces in
    filenames??) and record profit margins.

    Perhaps the last is the only explanation necessary:
    MS Office is wrapped in leaf foil and therefore must
    be good even if, after unwrapping, it smells a bit like
    what the cavemen I mentioned above might have
    dropped onto or buried underneath a bush...

    [.sigsnip]

  13. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    The Ghost In The Machine writes:

    > On Oct 21, 1:50 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tom Shelton belched out
    >> this bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >> > On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    >> >> Erik Jan wrote:

    >>
    >> >>> mentally-ill troll wrote:

    >>
    >> >>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >> >>>> Why?
    >> >>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.

    >>
    >> >>>You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    >> >>>know nothing about it, nothing at all.

    >>
    >> >> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.

    >>
    >> >> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    >> >> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...

    >>
    >> > I would and do.

    >>
    >> Why????!
    >>
    >> What do you do personally that requires MS Office?

    >
    > Be careful, there are a number of issues here.


    He wont be careful. You must remember that you are replying to the same
    person who has admitted here to using MS Office. He is in full "lapdog"
    mode.

    It would border on crazy to use MS Office at work and OO at home when
    you need to work on documents home and away.

    >
    > [1] One certainly doesn't *need* Office, anymore than one
    > needs a sheet of paper, even for wiping oneself -- let's
    > not go too far down *this* path, but did cavemen have


    Of course one does. You even listed the reasons in another post. And
    until OO offers the same its history.

    It's shocking how you keep teasing the COLA gang with your long winded
    diatribes which pretty much say "the real world uses MS and that's the
    way it will remain until there is a compelling reason for people to
    change to Linux and OSS".

    --
    "I am not worthy to wipe your pee-pee "
    -- Liarnut in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  14. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    On 2008-10-21, Tom Shelton wrote:
    > On 2008-10-21, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:15:50 +0200, Erik Jan wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 21-10-08
    >>> 18:20:
    >>>
    >>>>> | | With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already
    >>>>> be installed on | up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh
    >>>>> said in a blog post.
    >>>>
    >>>> Sure..... But not for long...
    >>>>
    >>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly. Why?
    >>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>>
    >>>> Possibly OpenOffice 3.0 will remedy this, but isn't that what we
    >>>> heard with V2.0 ?
    >>>
    >>> You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it.
    >>> You know nothing about it, nothing at all.
    >>>
    >>> Erik Jan

    >>
    >> I know that I have NEVER seen OpenOffice being used in any
    >> corporation that I deal with, or my associates deal with.
    >>
    >> One would think that a free product would quickly take over the
    >> market share of an expensive product.
    >>
    >> It's not happening.
    >>

    >
    > I know that a previous employer started trying to install OOo on
    > desktops rather then upgrade their Office. They dumped OOo after a
    > month or so, because a lot of the data that we got was by excel spread
    > sheets, and OOo kept screwing stuff up. Of course, this was one of
    > the 1.0 releases around the time of office xp (2002?) - so maybe
    > things would be better now
    >


    They might be, but if OpenOffice finally sorts out the problems with
    excel spreadsheets you can be sure that Microsoft will change the format
    yet again.... Microsoft are very determined to maintain incompatibility
    with any other office suite.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  15. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    "The Ghost In The Machine" stated in post
    9c544b08-d516-4afd-89cb-8f0065b65e2b...oglegroups.com on 10/21/08
    2:23 PM:

    > [3] The ribbon GUI may be confusing, but it's also nice looking to those who
    > aren't actually going to use the product. ;-) (I'm given to understand that
    > the actual users are less than enthralled therewith, and from a general
    > standpoint I can't say I like the idea, as it hides information much like
    > menus or scrolling forms do. Done well, it might work -- but I really don't
    > know how well it's done in MS Office's case.)


    The ribbon is not ideal - icons in the old tool bars were smaller and thus
    one could have more showing at any given time. With the ribbon one has to
    jump back and forth between the tabs a fair amount. But, with that said,
    the old tool bars "degraded" over time for many users - they would move,
    change, be removed, etc., and people did not know how to get them back - and
    they had not just the buttons (which were crowded and overwhelming for many)
    but the menus. The ribbon combines the two - so now you have one place to
    look for a feature, not two. You also can, to some extent, minimize your
    need to jump between tabs if you add the features you are most likely to use
    on the quick access bar. Maybe they should have a personalized tab so you
    can get more room. Oh, and with the ribbon there are some settings you need
    to still open the old style dialogs - though for most people that is rare.

    I have seen third party software starting to adopt the ribbon. While it
    seemed like it was designed to help programs with lots of features be more
    discoverable, I found it also is a pretty good organization tool for
    programs with far fewer features. Frankly I was surprised by how much I
    like it.

    The ribbon is not ideal, but it is, as far as I know, an innovative approach
    MS created and has opened up for others to use. What it replaced was
    clearly not ideal, either. Overall I think it was a good think for MS to do
    and I think it will improve over the next few generations of MS Office.

    As a side note: Apple's floating pallets are trying to solve some of the
    same problems and do so in a somewhat similar way (tabs of related
    commands). Apple, though, has tiny icons to label their tabs and the
    palette floats - making it less convenient than the MS solution. Apple
    finally got smart and added a commonly-used toolbar that changes with
    context, and that makes their software OK... but I think this is one area
    where MS has found a better solution than Apple.

    Linux, of course, as a whole has not found any real solution... it is
    piecemeal... and I am sure there are some good solutions out there but
    overall they do not carry over from one app to another and so are of limited
    value.


    --
    But if you are somebody who is not too concerned about price, who is not too
    concerned about freedom, I don't think we can say the Linux desktop offers
    the very best experience.
    - Mark Shuttleworth (founded Canonical Ltd. / Ubuntu Linux)


  16. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    Snit writes:

    > "The Ghost In The Machine" stated in post
    > 9c544b08-d516-4afd-89cb-8f0065b65e2b...oglegroups.com on 10/21/08
    > 2:23 PM:
    >
    >> [3] The ribbon GUI may be confusing, but it's also nice looking to those who
    >> aren't actually going to use the product. ;-) (I'm given to understand that
    >> the actual users are less than enthralled therewith, and from a general
    >> standpoint I can't say I like the idea, as it hides information much like
    >> menus or scrolling forms do. Done well, it might work -- but I really don't
    >> know how well it's done in MS Office's case.)

    >
    > The ribbon is not ideal - icons in the old tool bars were smaller and thus
    > one could have more showing at any given time. With the ribbon one has to
    > jump back and forth between the tabs a fair amount. But, with that said,
    > the old tool bars "degraded" over time for many users - they would move,
    > change, be removed, etc., and people did not know how to get them back - and
    > they had not just the buttons (which were crowded and overwhelming for many)
    > but the menus. The ribbon combines the two - so now you have one place to
    > look for a feature, not two. You also can, to some extent, minimize your
    > need to jump between tabs if you add the features you are most likely to use
    > on the quick access bar. Maybe they should have a personalized tab so you
    > can get more room. Oh, and with the ribbon there are some settings you need
    > to still open the old style dialogs - though for most people that is rare.
    >
    > I have seen third party software starting to adopt the ribbon. While it
    > seemed like it was designed to help programs with lots of features be more
    > discoverable, I found it also is a pretty good organization tool for
    > programs with far fewer features. Frankly I was surprised by how much I
    > like it.
    >
    > The ribbon is not ideal, but it is, as far as I know, an innovative approach
    > MS created and has opened up for others to use. What it replaced was
    > clearly not ideal, either. Overall I think it was a good think for MS to do
    > and I think it will improve over the next few generations of MS Office.
    >
    > As a side note: Apple's floating pallets are trying to solve some of the
    > same problems and do so in a somewhat similar way (tabs of related
    > commands). Apple, though, has tiny icons to label their tabs and the
    > palette floats - making it less convenient than the MS solution. Apple
    > finally got smart and added a commonly-used toolbar that changes with
    > context, and that makes their software OK... but I think this is one area
    > where MS has found a better solution than Apple.
    >
    > Linux, of course, as a whole has not found any real solution... it is
    > piecemeal... and I am sure there are some good solutions out there but
    > overall they do not carry over from one app to another and so are of limited
    > value.


    This is the problem. People all pulling in opposite directions and there
    fore none of them getting as far as if they were all pulling in the same
    direction. A hard analogy for COLA I grant you, but I think you'll get
    it.

    --
    "True. Due to a lack of competition, there essentially have been no
    improvements to Microsoft's operating system and office software. It
    just works."
    -- High Plains Thumper in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  17. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    On 2008-10-21, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Tom Shelton belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> On 2008-10-21, chrisv wrote:
    >>> Erik Jan wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> mentally-ill troll wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >>>>> Why?
    >>>>> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>>>
    >>>>You keep repeating this, but you do not have the means to know it. You
    >>>>know nothing about it, nothing at all.
    >>>
    >>> The troll is, of course, lying with his unqualified statements above.
    >>>
    >>> Certainly, many do pay for M$ Office (especially in business), but I
    >>> know of no one who would pay for it for their own personal use...

    >>
    >> I would and do.

    >
    > Why????!
    >
    > What do you do personally that requires MS Office?
    >


    Not a lot really - but, I like it a lot better

    --
    Tom Shelton

  18. Re: OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    "The Ghost In The Machine" stated in post
    c63c401f-af0c-4689-8876-ed3836e9750b...oglegroups.com on
    10/21/08 10:20 AM:

    ....
    >> Sure.....
    >> But not for long...
    >>
    >> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >> Why?
    >> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.

    >
    > OK, I'll bite. Why is MSOffice superior?
    >
    > Be specific.


    Comparing the newest MS Office with the newest OpenOffice - both on Windows,
    and both just the word processors:

    MS Word has the advantages of:

    * The ribbon... while not all will like it, of course, for many it is seen
    as an advantage. Unlike menus and toolbars it is a unified place to look
    for almost all commands and it has larger icons.

    * Live previews of changes

    * Grammar checker

    * Easier zooming

    * More compatible with what others use... like it or not

    * More accessible templates and pre-made text styles

    * Comes with some very good fonts (Calibri and Cambria)

    * Far more built in clip art

    * Far more footnote styles

    * Far more image styles

    * Better APA and Chicago style endnote and footnote support

    * Pop-up help sometimes covers menus

    And, I am sure, more... those were with just a few minutes of looking.

    With all of that said, I *do* think the current version of OpenOffice is a
    very good program - something I happily recommend to many customers. And, I
    am sure, it has its advantages...

    Other than price, though, what do you think those are?

    ....



    --
    Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers


  19. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:11:08 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Hadron belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> Erik Jan is .
    >>
    >> Jesus H Christ, even Linonut admits that OO does not cut the mustard for
    >> his work place.

    >
    > Wrong /again/ Hadron. Stop putting words in my mouth. OpenOffice "cuts
    > the mustard" just fine. The only issue is trying to fully deal with the
    > Microsoft formats on large and complex documents with certain features.
    >
    > If OO had the dominant installation numbers, or if Microsoft were
    > serious about support for open standards, that issue would be of no
    > importance.
    >
    >> I use OO for home because I took the decision to go full OSS/Linux warts
    >> and all. Sometimes it frustrates me. But not as much as listening to
    >> liars and arseholes like Willy Poaster proclaiming it "all works" or
    >> Peter Koehlmann telling me I "pretend" to use Emacs/Gnus and OSS on
    >> Debian when he's patently talking nonsense. What is wrong with these
    >> guys? They are loony tunes.

    >
    > You need to look in the mirror, and do a serious self-examination. Your
    > very attitude turns people against you.


    If anyone is "loony tunes", it's the Quack troll. You need look no further
    than who he hangs out with, Faltfish, Michael Snit Glasser & DFS.

    And you're right about his attitude, which has been describes as "****ty",
    "whining" & "arrogant" in other newsgroups.
    No wonder he gradually got binned by all & sundry in aolu, & it wasn't
    because (as *he* bleats) of COLA posters, it was *his own* attitude.
    In fact you'd have thought that, from some of his posts, he was the group
    moderator!

    As one poster put it, before binning Quack:

    And yes, you were soundly trounced regarding OSS and upgrades, and
    no amount of pretending you weren't will change the sad reality for
    you. No amount of stomping your feet and creaming "Ib nowt!" will
    make it go away. Really, you got so /thoroughly/ trounced. Now FOAD,
    troll.


    Thursday 20 March 2008
    alt.os.linux.ubuntu


    Hadron Quack has been shown to be a liar & charlatan, which is why the
    troll has a fixation about Peter Koehlmann & me.

    As for using emacs, you know there is a Windows version, don't you. And a
    thread about Windows Emacs -
    Subject: EmacsW32 invocation options
    Author: Hadron
    Group: gnu.emacs.help

    Well, well! ;-)


    For us, Linux *does* work. Not our fault that the idiotic troll can't get
    his distro to work on his own hardware. (Quack has already declared that
    he's had problems, he even had problems with Ubuntu one of the *easiest*
    distros to install!)

    --
    Did you know?
    Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences.
    He thought he was God, but she didn't.


  20. Re: [News] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Already on Millions of PCs

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ 7 on Tuesday 21 October 2008 19:09 : \____

    > Micoshaft asstroturfing fraudster pounding the sock Moshe Goldfarb
    > wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Department of Marketing:
    >
    >
    >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:14:13 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>
    >>> OpenOffice.org 3.0 scores strong first week
    >>>
    >>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>| The successful introduction of the open source office suite came despite
    >>>| the group's download servers being temporarily overwhelmed by demand for
    >>>| the new software last week.
    >>>|
    >>>| [...]
    >>>|
    >>>| With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already be
    >>>| installed on up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh said in a
    >>>| blog post.

    >>
    >> Sure.....
    >> But not for long...
    >>
    >> Once people try OpenOffice, they dump it rather quickly.
    >> Why?
    >> They would rather pay for MSOffice because it's superior.
    >>
    >> Possibly OpenOffice 3.0 will remedy this, but isn't that what we heard
    >> with V2.0 ?

    >
    >
    > Your post is out of date asstroturfing on behalf of micoshaft corporation.
    >
    > Open Office is gaining ground by a million a day at the moment
    > and you should not be trivilising the success enjoyed by millions
    > because micoshaft is paying you be asstroturfing.
    >
    > Asstroturfing by big corporations is illegal in the EU as of 26 May 2008.
    > Your asstroturfing post is more reasons why the US should be following suit
    > and banning corporations from hiring secretive commie asstroturfers like
    > you to distort the workings of the free market.
    >
    >
    >
    > | With the undercount included, OpenOffice.org 3.0 may already be installed
    > on
    > | up to 5 million computers worldwide, McCreesh said in a blog post.
    > `----
    >
    > http://www.computerworld.com/action
    > article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9117575
    >
    > http://www.openoffice.org


    Facts speak louder than Munchkins.

    OpenOffice.org Breaks Records Everywhere

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | All around the world, it seems, people just can't get enough of this amazing
    | free office suite, which is now turning in serious market shares in some
    | countries. For, example, according to this report, there are now 12 million
    | users in Brazil, representing fully 25% of the entire office market there.
    `----

    http://www.computerworlduk.com/commu...1369&blogid=14


    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | http://debian.org
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
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