Linux audio: it's a mess - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux audio: it's a mess - Linux ; The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at. Of course the loons in COLA claim it just "works". I suppose they know more than the developers anyway. Ain't choice great!! (NOT!!!!) http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/ "Lennart Poettering, a lead developer of PulseAudio ...

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  1. Linux audio: it's a mess


    The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at.
    Of course the loons in COLA claim it just "works".
    I suppose they know more than the developers anyway.

    Ain't choice great!!

    (NOT!!!!)

    http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/


    "Lennart Poettering, a lead developer of PulseAudio and Red Hat employee,
    moderated the miniconference and started with a summary of the state of
    Linux audio: "it's a mess."

    "PulseAudio first appeared to regular users in Fedora, starting with
    version 8, and now, as Lennart puts it, is for up-to-date users, "the
    software that currently breaks your audio."

    ""If you want all of the features, no one audio system supports all of
    them," Lennart said."

    "Apple and Microsoft each have a single sound server that does both desktop
    and pro audio, but nobody at the session seemed to have much interest in
    that direction for Linux."

    ""If someone comes and says, 'I want to write an audio application. Which
    API should I use?' I don't have a good answer," Lennart said. "

    "Users want sound to Just Work, and there's lots of working code in
    individual projects. But so far, it seems like nobody has everything quite
    plumbed together in an annoyance-free way."


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  2. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at.
    > Of course the loons in COLA claim it just "works".
    > I suppose they know more than the developers anyway.
    >
    > Ain't choice great!!
    >
    > (NOT!!!!)
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/
    >
    >
    > "Lennart Poettering, a lead developer of PulseAudio and Red Hat
    > employee, moderated the miniconference and started with a summary of
    > the state of Linux audio: "it's a mess."

    .....

    > "Users want sound to Just Work, and there's lots of working code in
    > individual projects. But so far, it seems like nobody has everything
    > quite plumbed together in an annoyance-free way."



    You have to remember, they've only had 17 years to get it right. Give them
    another 17...

    LMAO @ the slopware. Other than playtime tinkering, there truly is no
    reason to use desktop Linux.




  3. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:52:31 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >> The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at.
    >> Of course the loons in COLA claim it just "works".
    >> I suppose they know more than the developers anyway.
    >>
    >> Ain't choice great!!
    >>
    >> (NOT!!!!)
    >>
    >> http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/
    >>
    >>
    >> "Lennart Poettering, a lead developer of PulseAudio and Red Hat
    >> employee, moderated the miniconference and started with a summary of
    >> the state of Linux audio: "it's a mess."

    > ....
    >
    >> "Users want sound to Just Work, and there's lots of working code in
    >> individual projects. But so far, it seems like nobody has everything
    >> quite plumbed together in an annoyance-free way."

    >
    >
    > You have to remember, they've only had 17 years to get it right. Give them
    > another 17...
    >
    > LMAO @ the slopware. Other than playtime tinkering, there truly is no
    > reason to use desktop Linux.


    This is a perfect example where choice is a bad thing.
    People just want sound to work, they don't care how or what system as long
    as it works.

    Linux hasn't been able to manage this effectively for 17 years and it's
    actually getting worse with Pulse audio clogging the skunk works even more
    so.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  4. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:

    > The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at.
    > Of course the loons in COLA claim it just "works".
    > I suppose they know more than the developers anyway.
    >
    > Ain't choice great!!
    >
    > (NOT!!!!)
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/
    >
    >
    > "Lennart Poettering, a lead developer of PulseAudio and Red Hat employee,
    > moderated the miniconference and started with a summary of the state of
    > Linux audio: "it's a mess."
    >
    > "PulseAudio first appeared to regular users in Fedora, starting with
    > version 8, and now, as Lennart puts it, is for up-to-date users, "the
    > software that currently breaks your audio."
    >
    > ""If you want all of the features, no one audio system supports all of
    > them," Lennart said."
    >
    > "Apple and Microsoft each have a single sound server that does both desktop
    > and pro audio, but nobody at the session seemed to have much interest in
    > that direction for Linux."
    >
    > ""If someone comes and says, 'I want to write an audio application. Which
    > API should I use?' I don't have a good answer," Lennart said. "
    >
    > "Users want sound to Just Work, and there's lots of working code in
    > individual projects. But so far, it seems like nobody has everything quite
    > plumbed together in an annoyance-free way."


    When I asked about this a long time ago I was told in COLA that I was a
    liar and it "just worked". Who to believe? Hmmmm .....

  5. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:03:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at. Of course the
    > loons in COLA claim it just "works". I suppose they know more than the
    > developers anyway.
    >
    > Ain't choice great!!
    >
    > (NOT!!!!)
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/



    Hi Flatfish.

    Still on about Linux audio ?

    I agree, Linux audio is a bit of a mess, but Linux is a rapidly evolving
    OS and that means some areas can be less than ideal at any one time.

    The current state of Linux audio doesn't present any problems for me, I
    play mp3, oggs, videos, record audio for Linux presentations etc.

    The install was a no brainer with ALSA finding everything and working
    right away.

    I have a USB headset that I use with 'Twinkle' soft VOIP on this
    workstation, and it all works in conjunction with the sound system, no
    problems.

    The USB headset worked straight away, no big deal either.

    Sure my needs are not great, but SO WHAT ???

    If you have special audio needs, get special audio gear, get a Mac, get
    whatever you need to do the job.

    But please be aware, I couldn't care less what you think about the
    current state of Linux audio, and nor should *anyone else* because Linux
    doesn't have to be the BEST at audio just so you can make nice music of
    the backs of the work of others.

    Want Linux to be the best audio system ?

    There is nothing stopping you, all the tools you need are free, all you
    need is initiative, drive, software coding talent and the ability to be
    part of a team of Free Software coders, because it would be a big job I
    think.

    But you'd rather complain, and that's cool if that's your thing, and
    being a Wintroll *is* definitely your thing.

    Keep up the good work by the way, because if you stopped, where would all
    the Linux advocates come to have fun ?



    Cheers old Protaganist
    Terry






    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

  6. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    Terry Porter writes:

    > On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:03:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at. Of course the
    >> loons in COLA claim it just "works". I suppose they know more than the
    >> developers anyway.
    >>
    >> Ain't choice great!!
    >>
    >> (NOT!!!!)
    >>
    >> http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/

    >
    >
    > Hi Flatfish.
    >
    > Still on about Linux audio ?
    >
    > I agree, Linux audio is a bit of a mess, but Linux is a rapidly evolving
    > OS and that means some areas can be less than ideal at any one time.


    Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.

    >
    > The current state of Linux audio doesn't present any problems for me, I
    > play mp3, oggs, videos, record audio for Linux presentations etc.


    Yes, basic usage. What about multiple sources and mic?

    >
    > The install was a no brainer with ALSA finding everything and working
    > right away.
    >
    > I have a USB headset that I use with 'Twinkle' soft VOIP on this
    > workstation, and it all works in conjunction with the sound system, no
    > problems.
    >
    > The USB headset worked straight away, no big deal either.
    >
    > Sure my needs are not great, but SO WHAT ???
    >
    > If you have special audio needs, get special audio gear, get a Mac, get
    > whatever you need to do the job.


    So your advocacy is basically "doesn't work? Get a Mac" is it?
    Lovely. With that attitude its a wonder Linux ever improved.

    >
    > But please be aware, I couldn't care less what you think about the
    > current state of Linux audio, and nor should *anyone else* because Linux
    > doesn't have to be the BEST at audio just so you can make nice music of
    > the backs of the work of others.


    You have no right calling yourself an advocate or even using Linux. You
    are clearly a selfish "me me me" example.

    "Works for me" redefined.

  7. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:


    > Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.


    Begone Wintroll.


    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

  8. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    Terry Porter writes:

    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.

    >
    > Begone Wintroll.


    You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I use
    Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self opinionated
    nerd with little if any appreciation for real issues with real
    people. Yes, I'm self opinionated too. That in itself is not a sin. What
    is a sin is telling lies and misrepresenting things in order to cover up
    the short comings in Linux and a lot of OSS.

    --
    "It's perhaps inevitable that some professionals would paint their status
    as being somehow superior to those of the amateurs, after all, they're
    trying to get paid."
    -- Mark Kent mouthing off in comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.unix.solaris

  9. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Terry Porter belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.

    >
    > Begone Wintroll.

    ^lying

    I do think the guys at PulseAudio could have wrapped ALSA a bit more
    thoroughly, based on what I read in that lwn article. But they are
    trying to deal with other issues, such as networking the audio and
    having the same stuff run on Windows.

    Ah, my favorite comedy troupe:

    --
    "The pyramid is opening!" "Which one?"
    "The one with the ever-widening hole in it!"
    -- Firesign Theater, "How Can You Be In Two Places At
    Once When You're Not Anywhere At All"

  10. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    Hadron wrote:

    > Terry Porter writes:
    >
    >> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:03:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>
    >>> The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at. Of course the
    >>> loons in COLA claim it just "works". I suppose they know more than the
    >>> developers anyway.
    >>>
    >>> Ain't choice great!!
    >>>
    >>> (NOT!!!!)
    >>>
    >>> http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/

    >>
    >>
    >> Hi Flatfish.
    >>
    >> Still on about Linux audio ?
    >>
    >> I agree, Linux audio is a bit of a mess, but Linux is a rapidly evolving
    >> OS and that means some areas can be less than ideal at any one time.

    >
    > Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.
    >

    Well, it is certainly not any worse than Vista, which starts to stutter as
    soon as you open a new app

    >> The current state of Linux audio doesn't present any problems for me, I
    >> play mp3, oggs, videos, record audio for Linux presentations etc.

    >
    > Yes, basic usage. What about multiple sources and mic?


    What about them? Works here. And has for years. Out of the box

    --
    I just found out that the brain is like a computer.
    If that's true, then there really aren't any stupid people.
    Just people running Windows.


  11. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:32:49 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Terry Porter belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.

    >>
    >> Begone Wintroll.

    > ^lying
    >
    > I do think the guys at PulseAudio could have wrapped ALSA a bit more
    > thoroughly, based on what I read in that lwn article. But they are
    > trying to deal with other issues, such as networking the audio and
    > having the same stuff run on Windows.
    >
    > Ah, my favorite comedy troupe:


    More like Patty, LaVerne & Maxene. Quack, DooFu$ & Snot all singing from
    the same choirsheet, & "me tooing". ;-)

    --
    Did you know?
    Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences.
    He thought he was God, but she didn't.


  12. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    > Hadrone quacked:
    >>
    >> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.


    Deny what, Quack? That you're a fsckwit? Who would be so dishonest?

    --
    "There is more truth in one of them than you and your COLA gang." -
    Hadron Quark, defending the group of "DFS, billwg, ErikF, flatfish,
    etc."

  13. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:26:41 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:
    >
    >> The current clusterfsck stage that Linux audio is at.
    >> Of course the loons in COLA claim it just "works".
    >> I suppose they know more than the developers anyway.
    >>
    >> Ain't choice great!!
    >>
    >> (NOT!!!!)
    >>
    >> http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/
    >>
    >>
    >> "Lennart Poettering, a lead developer of PulseAudio and Red Hat employee,
    >> moderated the miniconference and started with a summary of the state of
    >> Linux audio: "it's a mess."
    >>
    >> "PulseAudio first appeared to regular users in Fedora, starting with
    >> version 8, and now, as Lennart puts it, is for up-to-date users, "the
    >> software that currently breaks your audio."
    >>
    >> ""If you want all of the features, no one audio system supports all of
    >> them," Lennart said."
    >>
    >> "Apple and Microsoft each have a single sound server that does both desktop
    >> and pro audio, but nobody at the session seemed to have much interest in
    >> that direction for Linux."
    >>
    >> ""If someone comes and says, 'I want to write an audio application. Which
    >> API should I use?' I don't have a good answer," Lennart said. "
    >>
    >> "Users want sound to Just Work, and there's lots of working code in
    >> individual projects. But so far, it seems like nobody has everything quite
    >> plumbed together in an annoyance-free way."

    >
    > When I asked about this a long time ago I was told in COLA that I was a
    > liar and it "just worked". Who to believe? Hmmmm .....


    The COLA gang have been claiming that Linux doesn't have audio,
    font,printing,scanning,wireless networking etc problems for years.
    They just keep spouting the same nonsense hoping that nobody will notice.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  14. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    In article ,
    Hadron wrote:

    > Terry Porter writes:
    >
    > > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.

    > >
    > > Begone Wintroll.

    >
    > You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I use
    > Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self opinionated


    Wasn't Terry Porter the guy who declared Kelsey was a wintroll?


    --
    --Tim Smith

  15. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:39:08 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Terry Porter writes:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.
    >>>
    >>> Begone Wintroll.

    >>
    >> You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I use
    >> Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self opinionated

    >
    > Wasn't Terry Porter the guy who declared Kelsey was a wintroll?


    Yes that is correct.
    He also bragged about how he could administer his client's servers from his
    office........

    ............using telnet.
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  16. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:

    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:39:08 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
    >
    >> In article ,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Terry Porter writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.
    >>>>
    >>>> Begone Wintroll.
    >>>
    >>> You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I use
    >>> Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self opinionated

    >>
    >> Wasn't Terry Porter the guy who declared Kelsey was a wintroll?

    >
    > Yes that is correct.
    > He also bragged about how he could administer his client's servers from his
    > office........
    >
    > ...........using telnet.


    Is "office" COLA for "Mother's basement"?

    Apparently he makes a handsome living reselling 40 dollar routers! About
    5 a week..... That's some markup!

    --
    "Are Linux systems perfect. Uh, no."
    -- Rick in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  17. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:39:08 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Terry Porter writes:
    >>
    >> > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.
    >> >
    >> > Begone Wintroll.

    >>
    >> You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I
    >> use Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self
    >> opinionated

    >
    > Wasn't Terry Porter the guy who declared Kelsey was a wintroll?


    Yes, hes also the guy who apologised to Kelsey on Cola when he realised
    he had made a mistake.

    We all make mistakes Tim ...

    Cheers
    Terry





    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

  18. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:47:23 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:39:08 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
    >
    >> In article ,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Terry Porter writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.
    >>>>
    >>>> Begone Wintroll.
    >>>
    >>> You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I
    >>> use Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self
    >>> opinionated

    >>
    >> Wasn't Terry Porter the guy who declared Kelsey was a wintroll?

    >
    > Yes that is correct.
    > He also bragged about how he could administer his client's servers from
    > his office........
    >
    > ...........using telnet.


    You left out the part about how I also eat live human babies, dispute
    gravity and went back to MS Windows.

    Poor flatfish the great FUD recycler

    Also the great fibber...

    Readers are directed to my recent posts discussing my reverse ssh server
    for secure remote admin of Linux clients behind firewalls.


    Terry





    --
    Linux full time, on the desktop, since August 1997

  19. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    Terry Porter writes:

    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:47:23 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:39:08 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article ,
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Terry Porter writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:48:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Good. Then you can explain why to the rest of COLA who deny this.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Begone Wintroll.
    >>>>
    >>>> You appeared to snip the points I made. BTW, I do not use Windows. I
    >>>> use Debian. You're not a "troll fighter" Terry. You're a self
    >>>> opinionated
    >>>
    >>> Wasn't Terry Porter the guy who declared Kelsey was a wintroll?

    >>
    >> Yes that is correct.
    >> He also bragged about how he could administer his client's servers from
    >> his office........
    >>
    >> ...........using telnet.

    >
    > You left out the part about how I also eat live human babies, dispute
    > gravity and went back to MS Windows.
    >
    > Poor flatfish the great FUD recycler
    >
    > Also the great fibber...
    >
    > Readers are directed to my recent posts discussing my reverse ssh server
    > for secure remote admin of Linux clients behind firewalls.
    > Terry


    None of which is rocket science and in every single linux "how to" out
    there near enough. It seems that you were showing off, got ridiculed and
    then went away hoping people would forget.

    Really? LOL. Telnet? How you must have blushed when it was pointed out
    that not even Kelsey would be dumb enough to use that over the net!

    We had a discussion about it recently. It was because of people like you
    that I was all for it being permanently removed from default install.

    --
    "This year with the release of XP, they are actually behind. The end days
    are near for the BIOS reading inferior OS. It is inevitable."
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  20. Re: Linux audio: it's a mess

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Terry Porter belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:47:23 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> He also bragged about how he could administer his client's servers from
    >> his office........
    >>
    >> ...........using telnet.

    >
    > You left out the part about how I also eat live human babies, dispute
    > gravity and went back to MS Windows.
    >
    > Poor flatfish the great FUD recycler
    >
    > Also the great fibber...
    >
    > Readers are directed to my recent posts discussing my reverse ssh server
    > for secure remote admin of Linux clients behind firewalls.


    I think flatfish is trying to rekindle old times.

    --
    ....Saure really turns out to be an adept at the difficult art of papryomancy,
    the ability to prophesy through contemplating the way people roll reefers -
    the shape, the licking pattern, the wrinkles and folds or absence thereof
    in the paper. "You will soon be in love," sez Saure, "see, this line here."
    "It's long, isn't it? Does that mean --" "Length is usually intensity.
    Not time."
    -- Thomas Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

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