Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top. - Linux

This is a discussion on Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top. - Linux ; This is for the UK Amazon site, here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux 2. Asus Eee Windows XP 3. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux 4. Asus Eee Windows XP 5. Asus Eee Linux 6. Asus Eee Windows XP ...

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  1. Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    This is for the UK Amazon site, here:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904


    1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    2. Asus Eee Windows XP
    3. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    4. Asus Eee Windows XP
    5. Asus Eee Linux
    6. Asus Eee Windows XP
    7. Asus Eee Linux
    8. Acer Aspire one Windows XP
    9. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    10. Asus Eee Windows XP

    .... and so it goes on.

    In any case, the bestseller is a Linux machine.


    I posted a version of this some time ago, before Microsoft realised what
    a disaster Vista was, and how much demand there is for mobility
    solutions, and therefore cancelled their end-of-life statement for the
    6-year-old XP in the hope of keeping a presence on some of these
    machines.

    Whilst they've had some success in breaking into this mainly Linux
    space, there doesn't seem to be a sustainable model for Microsoft here.
    They've announced that they're only going to allow OEMs to install
    Windows XP into the early part of 2009, at which point, it's not clear
    what their plans are.

    Obviously, Vista isn't part of the plan here.

    Also, very well done to the Linux folk at Asus and Acer, at Xandros and
    Linpus and everywhere else, for this massive success.

    Linux is Number 1 today.

    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


  2. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 07 October 2008 08:09 : \____

    > This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >
    >

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >
    >
    > 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    > 2. Asus Eee Windows XP
    > 3. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    > 4. Asus Eee Windows XP
    > 5. Asus Eee Linux
    > 6. Asus Eee Windows XP
    > 7. Asus Eee Linux
    > 8. Acer Aspire one Windows XP
    > 9. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    > 10. Asus Eee Windows XP
    >
    > ... and so it goes on.
    >
    > In any case, the bestseller is a Linux machine.
    >
    >
    > I posted a version of this some time ago, before Microsoft realised what
    > a disaster Vista was, and how much demand there is for mobility
    > solutions, and therefore cancelled their end-of-life statement for the
    > 6-year-old XP in the hope of keeping a presence on some of these
    > machines.
    >
    > Whilst they've had some success in breaking into this mainly Linux
    > space, there doesn't seem to be a sustainable model for Microsoft here.
    > They've announced that they're only going to allow OEMs to install
    > Windows XP into the early part of 2009, at which point, it's not clear
    > what their plans are.
    >
    > Obviously, Vista isn't part of the plan here.
    >
    > Also, very well done to the Linux folk at Asus and Acer, at Xandros and
    > Linpus and everywhere else, for this massive success.
    >
    > Linux is Number 1 today.


    Regarding MSI, they are foolish to have chosen Ballnux. LinuxDevices had this
    to say:

    "Linux is not Linux is not Linux

    "Clearly, Tung's statement may reflect his subjective impression, rather than
    actual return figures. Still, it is worth noting that early netbook vendors do
    often rush to market with hasty Linux implementations. And unfortunately, the
    smaller screens and lower CPU power of netbooks means that "normal" Linux
    distributions like SUSE may not work very well on them.

    "Compounding the problem, netbook vendors often see Linux as a "low-end"
    option, and thus offer a reduced hardware spec on Linux models. For example,
    the Linux version of the MSI Wind U100 comes with only a 3-cell battery, with
    512MB of RAM instead of 1GB, and no bluetooth.

    "Some netbook vendors, though -- notably Asus and Acer -- have worked closely
    with Linux software partners to produce well-integrated, highly usable
    products. The pioneering Asus Eee PC uses the Windows-like Xandros
    distribution, while the popular Acer Aspire One uses Linpus Linux Lite, a
    distribution specifically designed for netbooks. Dell's Dell Inspiron Mini 9,
    meanwhile, uses a version of Ubuntu specifically designed for netbooks."

    I notice that the Microsoft talking points (e.g. the typical ones at ZDNet,
    Ziff/Gates) have begun attacking Linux on sub-notebooks too, indicating that
    Microsoft suffers in that area a lot.

    "...Then they fight you..."

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Free the mind, the source will follow"
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    09:00:01 up 21:51, 1 user, load average: 0.54, 0.92, 1.01
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
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  3. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >
    >

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >
    >
    > 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux

    [snip]

    I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav

    It's mostly Vista, and Linux is somewhere down in the double digits. It is
    rather odd though, if you compare this with the US list:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...KJJ79WNQNK8C93

    It's XP rather than Vista there, and Linux is doing fairly well.


    And to Hadron: Look how easy it is to stay nice and polite if you decide
    tell someone they may have made a mistake. I didn't call him a liar or an
    idiot even once. Why would I?

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  4. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Richard Rasker writes:

    > Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>
    >>
    >> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux

    > [snip]
    >
    > I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    > within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    > represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >
    > It's mostly Vista, and Linux is somewhere down in the double digits. It is
    > rather odd though, if you compare this with the US list:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...KJJ79WNQNK8C93
    >
    > It's XP rather than Vista there, and Linux is doing fairly well.
    >
    >
    > And to Hadron: Look how easy it is to stay nice and polite if you decide
    > tell someone they may have made a mistake. I didn't call him a liar or an
    > idiot even once. Why would I?


    Listen up - I corrected you politely once when you did this before.

    Finally you admitted you had "misread" the numbers.

    You then went out of your way to mangle the numbers from Amazon and
    report them here again at a later date a second time.

    You do this all the time.

    I think you were telling lies. Even a cursory 3 clicks could show you
    were wrong. Computers. Laptops. Best selling. It was that easy.

    You also used a garbage statistical prediction based on wrong
    numbers. The entire content of your posts were wrong.

    At the same time the COLA gang launched their offensive to discredit me
    and telling me how I could not read etc etc. This happens so often that
    one does not stay too civil for too long.

    Its nice to see you correcting Mark Kent there though. He is an
    insufferable bore.

    I honestly believe you mangled the numbers on purpose. Your posting
    history suggest that you like to mislead.

    As for civility I think you will find I will be when the favour is
    returned.

    >
    > Richard Rasker


  5. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Richard Rasker belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > And to Hadron: Look how easy it is to stay nice and polite if you decide
    > tell someone they may have made a mistake. I didn't call him a liar or an
    > idiot even once. Why would I?


    Uh, because he /is/ one?

    --
    I have no doubt the Devil grins, As seas of ink I spatter.
    Ye gods, forgive my "literary" sins-- The other kind don't matter.
    -- Robert W. Service

  6. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Hadron wrote:

    > Richard Rasker writes:
    >
    >> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux

    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    >> within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    >> represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >>
    >>

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >>
    >> It's mostly Vista, and Linux is somewhere down in the double digits. It
    >> is rather odd though, if you compare this with the US list:
    >>
    >>

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...KJJ79WNQNK8C93
    >>
    >> It's XP rather than Vista there, and Linux is doing fairly well.
    >>
    >>
    >> And to Hadron: Look how easy it is to stay nice and polite if you decide
    >> tell someone they may have made a mistake. I didn't call him a liar or an
    >> idiot even once. Why would I?

    >
    > Listen up - I corrected you politely once when you did this before.


    Um, no. You started calling me a "liar" and an "idiot" right away, and gave
    no good explanation why my numbers were wrong -- the first time you didn't
    even come up with a link to the correct list, let alone provide any reason
    as to why you were right and I was wrong.

    > Finally you admitted you had "misread" the numbers.


    No, I hadn't "misread" the numbers, I based my findings on the wrong page,
    the one with the "In Stock" items. This only became apparent after you came
    up with your list, which was quite different -- and it was still me who
    researched and found the actual cause of this discrepancy, not you. You
    only claimed that the way to arrive at your list (through a few consecutive
    steps) was more logical than the how I arrived at my list (one step, via
    Google, IIRC).

    > You then went out of your way to mangle the numbers from Amazon and
    > report them here again at a later date a second time.


    I thought it would be nice to have a weekly top 25 of bestselling laptops.
    So I reproduced the numbers I found. No "mangling" whatsoever was involved.
    And after you noticed the discrepancy between my list and yours (which you
    mostly expressed by means of abusive language), I conceded that I used the
    wrong one, and I accordingly corrected everything, including the sales
    estimates spreadsheet.

    > You do this all the time.


    Oh yeah, no doubt. Only I can't seem to recall any of this, so please jog my
    memory. And oh, come up with actual links providing evidence of me
    perpetrating these acts of number fudging you accuse me of. Merely
    shouting "liar" doesn't really cut it.

    > I think you were telling lies. Even a cursory 3 clicks could show you
    > were wrong. Computers. Laptops. Best selling. It was that easy.


    Yes it was, and I thank you for showing me the error of my ways. But I'm
    afraid that is as far as my gratitude goes. There are limits to how
    thankful one can be to a person who appears to prefer namecalling over
    polite disagreement.

    > You also used a garbage statistical prediction based on wrong
    > numbers. The entire content of your posts were wrong.


    You say it: "prediction"; and I call it "estimate". How can you claim that a
    prediction or estimate is "all wrong" -- especially when it's based on the
    hard fact of a popularity ranking? Sure, the numbers can be off by perhaps
    as much as 20% (although I doubt they are). But they can't be "just
    anything" or "all made up", and accuracy within 20% isn't all that bad for
    estimates. Furthermore, I explicitly included a variable in the spreadsheet
    to play with, to explore the boundaries of likely values. OK, I'd really
    like to have access to actual sales data to see how far these estimates are
    off -- but I haven't, so this is the only way to predict plausible market
    percentages. You seem to be the only one who has trouble with this.
    And once again: you wouldn't call the weather man or woman in the TV news a
    liar because (s)he talks in terms of probability and chance all the time,
    now would you?

    > At the same time the COLA gang launched their offensive to discredit me
    > and telling me how I could not read etc etc. This happens so often that
    > one does not stay too civil for too long.


    Well, I don't have any control over the other people here. Some time ago, I
    decided to try and refrain from abusive language and other childish
    behaviour towards persons, no matter how unpleasant they might act.
    But it's always nice to see this kind of courtesy reciprocated. So far, you
    failed, and let yourself be dragged into one shouting match after another,
    with a substantial amount of fallout coming my way as well. Not to mention
    the fact that there's always the rest of the Wintroll crew standing by to
    chime in and pour some more oil on the fire.

    > Its nice to see you correcting Mark Kent there though. He is an
    > insufferable bore.
    >
    > I honestly believe you mangled the numbers on purpose. Your posting
    > history suggest that you like to mislead.


    Nah, I like to present good news for Linux (that's what this news group is
    for, after all) -- and I like numbers to support such news, if at all
    possible. The trouble with numbers in news is that they can be rather
    unreliable, or even plain wrong if you look in the wrong place.
    But some things the average Wintroll refused to believe are actual events --
    such as my hopeless wrestling with an almost brand new Vista machine, well
    over a year ago now. That's also why I included those dozens of screen
    shots, to show that, unbelievable as it may be, Microsoft's "latest and
    greatest" was a horrible, unstable and generally unusable mess. Incredible
    enough, the Wintrolls still called me a liar, even in the face of this
    evidence (as if I would have taken the effort to doctor some two dozen
    screen shots ...). OK, there was confusion on my behalf about the file
    system burned on CD's by default -- it /was/ (and still largely is)
    incompatible with most older machines out there, and I concluded that this
    may have been a deliberate design decision by Microsoft, which was a
    premature conclusion, in hindsight. But it really did take me days of
    struggling to accomplish the usually trival task of burning a usable CD.
    Vista appears to have improved dramatically in terms of stability and
    usability since then (I know several people who use it on a daily basis,
    with nothing more than a mild dislike), but it's still like a 1000lb pig
    with lipstick, and not by far as popular as said pig -- as a 1000lb pig at
    least still represents a lot of bacon in the end, whereas Vista represents
    nothing but an endless resource sinkhole.

    > As for civility I think you will find I will be when the favour is
    > returned.


    OK, now let's keep it that way, shall we? It's probably some sort of ancient
    hormonal driven instinct to counter abuse with abuse (and more plentiful
    and extreme abuse, and leading up to physical violence, if at all
    possible), but in the end it only serves to make you look rather childish.

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  7. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Richard Rasker wrote:

    >And to Hadron: Look how easy it is to stay nice and polite if you decide
    >tell someone they may have made a mistake. I didn't call him a liar or an
    >idiot even once. Why would I?


    Well, unlike Quack, you're not a fscking asshole.

    --
    Statement: But, at the same time, Linux is going to grow to new
    heights in popularity both for individual and business users.

    Funkenresponse: All that means is that there will be even more chaos.

  8. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Richard Rasker espoused:
    > Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>
    >>
    >> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux

    > [snip]
    >
    > I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    > within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    > represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav


    Err, the items can be shipped within a few days, it says... and it's a
    list of the bestselling ones, because that's the filter I chose.
    I presume that your list is aggregated over a different period?

    But, your list is *laptops*, my list is *netbooks*. They don't have a
    "netbooks" listing for the US site, but they do on the UK one.

    The closest I can find on the UK site is here:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav

    The list is dominated by Linux, although it has to be said that it
    doesn't hold the top spot... it goes like this:

    1. Acer WinXP
    2. Asus EEE linux
    3. Acer Linpus
    4. Asus EEE linux
    5. Asus EEE WinXP
    6. Asus EEE Linux
    7. Acer Linpus
    8. Acer Linpus
    9. Asus EEE WinXP
    10. Asus eee WinXP

    That's 60% of the top spot to the Linux machines, as far as I can tell,
    with no showing for Vista at least down to 25.

    >
    > It's mostly Vista, and Linux is somewhere down in the double digits. It is
    > rather odd though, if you compare this with the US list:
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...KJJ79WNQNK8C93
    >
    > It's XP rather than Vista there, and Linux is doing fairly well.



    >
    >
    > And to Hadron: Look how easy it is to stay nice and polite if you decide
    > tell someone they may have made a mistake. I didn't call him a liar or an
    > idiot even once. Why would I?
    >
    > Richard Rasker



    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


  9. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > Richard Rasker espoused:
    >> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux

    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    >> within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    >> represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >>
    >>

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >
    > Err, the items can be shipped within a few days, it says... and it's a
    > list of the bestselling ones, because that's the filter I chose.
    > I presume that your list is aggregated over a different period?
    >
    > But, your list is *laptops*, my list is *netbooks*. They don't have a
    > "netbooks" listing for the US site, but they do on the UK one.


    Hm, I guess that explains it :-) Indeed, when looking at netbooks, Linux is
    doing exceedingly well.

    > The closest I can find on the UK site is here:
    >
    >

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >
    > The list is dominated by Linux, although it has to be said that it
    > doesn't hold the top spot... it goes like this:
    >
    > 1. Acer WinXP
    > 2. Asus EEE linux
    > 3. Acer Linpus
    > 4. Asus EEE linux
    > 5. Asus EEE WinXP
    > 6. Asus EEE Linux
    > 7. Acer Linpus
    > 8. Acer Linpus
    > 9. Asus EEE WinXP
    > 10. Asus eee WinXP
    >
    > That's 60% of the top spot to the Linux machines, as far as I can tell,
    > with no showing for Vista at least down to 25.


    Well, this all goes to show that even a simple query for the "bestselling 25
    laptops/netboks/whatever" is prone to turn up all sorts of lists, each
    correct in their own right, but all different from one another.

    BTW, does anyone have any idea what the approximate cost is of a Vista
    license when included with an OEM laptop? In other words: if you buy a
    Vista laptop for, say, $400, then how much are you actually donating to
    Microsoft? In know that the cheapest Vista OEM license when bought retail
    costs approximately $100, but today someone insisted that OEMs like Acer
    only pay Microsoft a mere $25 per license.

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  10. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Richard Rasker belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> As for civility I think you will find I will be when the favour is
    >> returned.

    >
    > OK, now let's keep it that way, shall we? It's probably some sort of ancient
    > hormonal driven instinct to counter abuse with abuse (and more plentiful
    > and extreme abuse, and leading up to physical violence, if at all
    > possible), but in the end it only serves to make you look rather childish.


    You're wasting your time with Hadron. He's a troll and his first
    recourse in any discussion is insult.

    --
    A large number of installed systems work by fiat. That is, they work
    by being declared to work.
    -- Anatol Holt

  11. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    Mark Kent wrote:

    > Richard Rasker espoused:
    >> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux

    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    >> within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    >> represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >>
    >>

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >
    > Err, the items can be shipped within a few days, it says...


    To be specific, all the machines that you listed seem to be either "in stock",
    or available for delivery on Thursday if ordered within 19 or 23 hours.
    That means that they are either available for delivery tomorrow (Wednesday),
    or the day after provided one orders by either 1.00p.m. or 5.30p.m. tomorrow
    ("Now" being 6.30p.m. Tuesday).

    What on earth is all this blather about "in stock"?
    Just how available do they have to be to count against MS????
    - and what the blue-blazes is quirky on about???



  12. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    bbgruff writes:

    > Mark Kent wrote:
    >
    >> Richard Rasker espoused:
    >>> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>

    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    >>> [snip]
    >>>
    >>> I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be shipped
    >>> within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it doesn't
    >>> represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >>>
    >>>

    > http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >>
    >> Err, the items can be shipped within a few days, it says...

    >
    > To be specific, all the machines that you listed seem to be either "in stock",
    > or available for delivery on Thursday if ordered within 19 or 23 hours.
    > That means that they are either available for delivery tomorrow (Wednesday),
    > or the day after provided one orders by either 1.00p.m. or 5.30p.m. tomorrow
    > ("Now" being 6.30p.m. Tuesday).
    >
    > What on earth is all this blather about "in stock"?
    > Just how available do they have to be to count against MS????
    > - and what the blue-blazes is quirky on about???


    If you mean me, I mean that Rasker claimed that Linux laptops were
    outselling Windows ones.

    3 clicks dispelled that.

    That and a bit of common sense of course.

  13. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.


    "Hadron" wrote in message
    news:gcg7o9$6tg$1@registered.motzarella.org...
    > bbgruff writes:
    >
    >> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>
    >>> Richard Rasker espoused:
    >>>> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>

    >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    >>>> [snip]
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be
    >>>> shipped
    >>>> within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it
    >>>> doesn't
    >>>> represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >>>>
    >>>>

    >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >>>
    >>> Err, the items can be shipped within a few days, it says...

    >>
    >> To be specific, all the machines that you listed seem to be either "in
    >> stock",
    >> or available for delivery on Thursday if ordered within 19 or 23 hours.
    >> That means that they are either available for delivery tomorrow
    >> (Wednesday),
    >> or the day after provided one orders by either 1.00p.m. or 5.30p.m.
    >> tomorrow
    >> ("Now" being 6.30p.m. Tuesday).
    >>
    >> What on earth is all this blather about "in stock"?
    >> Just how available do they have to be to count against MS????
    >> - and what the blue-blazes is quirky on about???

    >
    > If you mean me, I mean that Rasker claimed that Linux laptops were
    > outselling Windows ones.
    >
    > 3 clicks dispelled that.
    >
    > That and a bit of common sense of course.


    I am not so sure that everyone is on the same page here. Shestowitz's cite
    is for "Netbooks" and the others are for "laptops and notebooks". Certainly
    Linux has made a mark in the netbook category. Possibly they have done so
    in cell phones, television converter boxes, and automobile controls. Maybe
    even toasters. So what? It would seem silly for a manufacturer to pay
    millions of bucks or more to a software vendor for a platform when one or
    two instances of a design were all that were necessary to make a specialized
    product functional. If one can avoid being sued by the SFLC for not giving
    the Busy Box inventor his daily pat on the back, one can avoid a lot of
    product expense for unnecessary third party participation. If a Windows
    familiar interface is needed, then there is a reason to pay Microsoft, but
    in the case of most of these appliances there is not.


  14. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    "amicus_curious" writes:

    > "Hadron" wrote in message
    > news:gcg7o9$6tg$1@registered.motzarella.org...
    >> bbgruff writes:
    >>
    >>> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Richard Rasker espoused:
    >>>>> Mark Kent wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> This is for the UK Amazon site, here:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_li...pf_rd_i=561904
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> 1. Acer Aspire one Linpus Linux
    >>>>> [snip]
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I'm sorry to inform you that this is the "In Stock" list ("can be
    >>>>> shipped
    >>>>> within one day"), like the one I originally found via Google; it
    >>>>> doesn't
    >>>>> represent the overall ranking. This appears to be the correct one:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestselle...f=pd_ts_ce_nav
    >>>>
    >>>> Err, the items can be shipped within a few days, it says...
    >>>
    >>> To be specific, all the machines that you listed seem to be either
    >>> "in stock",
    >>> or available for delivery on Thursday if ordered within 19 or 23 hours.
    >>> That means that they are either available for delivery tomorrow
    >>> (Wednesday),
    >>> or the day after provided one orders by either 1.00p.m. or
    >>> 5.30p.m. tomorrow
    >>> ("Now" being 6.30p.m. Tuesday).
    >>>
    >>> What on earth is all this blather about "in stock"?
    >>> Just how available do they have to be to count against MS????
    >>> - and what the blue-blazes is quirky on about???

    >>
    >> If you mean me, I mean that Rasker claimed that Linux laptops were
    >> outselling Windows ones.
    >>
    >> 3 clicks dispelled that.
    >>
    >> That and a bit of common sense of course.

    >
    > I am not so sure that everyone is on the same page here. Shestowitz's
    > cite is for "Netbooks" and the others are for "laptops and notebooks".


    Schestowitz I do not pay attention to. Nothing he says can be trusted.

    > Certainly Linux has made a mark in the netbook category. Possibly


    Absolutely.


    > they have done so in cell phones, television converter boxes, and
    > automobile controls. Maybe even toasters. So what? It would seem


    Exactly. And we are not discussing this. We are discussing Raskers
    claims. or rather that is all I was discussing. If posts have been moved
    then so be it.

    > silly for a manufacturer to pay millions of bucks or more to a
    > software vendor for a platform when one or two instances of a design
    > were all that were necessary to make a specialized product functional.
    > If one can avoid being sued by the SFLC for not giving the Busy Box
    > inventor his daily pat on the back, one can avoid a lot of product
    > expense for unnecessary third party participation. If a Windows
    > familiar interface is needed, then there is a reason to pay Microsoft,
    > but in the case of most of these appliances there is not.


  15. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:14:28 +0200, Hadron wrote:


    > Schestowitz I do not pay attention to. Nothing he says can be trusted.


    That's for certain.

    Currently he's blathering all over the place about the possibility of his
    getting sued for posting the leaked ooxml vs odf documents on his website.

    Alex H made a veiled comment about that possibility.

    His current line of reasoning is that his site isn't the only place the
    docs are available.

    I hope the docs are watermarked, and I suspect they might be, which is
    going to make tracing the leak back to the source trivial.

    Of course posting copyrighted material without permission is business as
    usual for Schestowitz.

    I'm hoping he gets what he deserves because at this point he is so far off
    the rails it is bordering on insanity.

    It's going to be interesting to observe.
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  16. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:

    > On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:14:28 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Schestowitz I do not pay attention to. Nothing he says can be trusted.

    >
    > That's for certain.
    >
    > Currently he's blathering all over the place about the possibility of his
    > getting sued for posting the leaked ooxml vs odf documents on his website.
    >
    > Alex H made a veiled comment about that possibility.
    >
    > His current line of reasoning is that his site isn't the only place the
    > docs are available.
    >
    > I hope the docs are watermarked, and I suspect they might be, which is
    > going to make tracing the leak back to the source trivial.
    >
    > Of course posting copyrighted material without permission is business as
    > usual for Schestowitz.
    >
    > I'm hoping he gets what he deserves because at this point he is so far off
    > the rails it is bordering on insanity.
    >
    > It's going to be interesting to observe.


    It will be interesting to see if the mole on Roy's ridiculously vain irc
    channel sends me any more tidbits like when Marti was granted a minute
    with the great man to complain that "People were being nice to him" in
    COLA!


  17. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    amicus_curious wrote:

    > I am not so sure that everyone is on the same page here. *Shestowitz's cite
    > is for "Netbooks" and the others are for "laptops and notebooks".


    Actually, it was Mark to whom I was replying.
    That apart, I agree with you for once, in that everybody seems to be on a
    different page, both figuratively and literally!

    My comments re. Hadron are based purely on what I'd seen quoted of his
    comments earlier on this topic. There, I understood him to be contradicting
    figures (sales rankings, if you like) entirely on the principle that "If it
    isn't in stock, you ought to filter it out" (my paraphrasing)

    If that was/is the case, my contention is that the attitude is wrong - and
    certaily if "in stock" means "we can send it today" while "not in stock"
    means "we can send it tomorrow"!


  18. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    bbgruff writes:

    > amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    >> I am not so sure that everyone is on the same page here. *Shestowitz's cite
    >> is for "Netbooks" and the others are for "laptops and notebooks".

    >
    > Actually, it was Mark to whom I was replying.
    > That apart, I agree with you for once, in that everybody seems to be on a
    > different page, both figuratively and literally!
    >
    > My comments re. Hadron are based purely on what I'd seen quoted of his
    > comments earlier on this topic. There, I understood him to be contradicting
    > figures (sales rankings, if you like) entirely on the principle that "If it
    > isn't in stock, you ought to filter it out" (my paraphrasing)
    >
    > If that was/is the case, my contention is that the attitude is wrong - and
    > certaily if "in stock" means "we can send it today" while "not in stock"
    > means "we can send it tomorrow"!


    How could you have it so wrong?

    Its easy enough to backtrack and check.

    The numbers wer presented as "Linux outsells Windows".

    I pointed out that the numbers were mangled to give a favorable view on
    Linux. I EVEN showed you how to disprove the numbers.

    Sigh. It gets worse and worse around here.

    --
    "Give it up because going on the offensive, and you are quite offensive, is
    not going to cover up your trolling and nym shifting blunders no matter now
    many times you re-post the same text."
    -- "Moshe Goldfarb." in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  19. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:30:45 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Richard Rasker belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> As for civility I think you will find I will be when the favour is
    >>> returned.

    >>
    >> OK, now let's keep it that way, shall we? It's probably some sort of ancient
    >> hormonal driven instinct to counter abuse with abuse (and more plentiful
    >> and extreme abuse, and leading up to physical violence, if at all
    >> possible), but in the end it only serves to make you look rather childish.

    >
    > You're wasting your time with Hadron. He's a troll and his first
    > recourse in any discussion is insult.


    As others have found in various groups.


  20. Re: Amazon netbook line-up: Linux at the top.

    bbgruff espoused:
    > amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    >> I am not so sure that everyone is on the same page here. *Shestowitz's cite
    >> is for "Netbooks" and the others are for "laptops and notebooks".

    >
    > Actually, it was Mark to whom I was replying.
    > That apart, I agree with you for once, in that everybody seems to be on a
    > different page, both figuratively and literally!
    >
    > My comments re. Hadron are based purely on what I'd seen quoted of his
    > comments earlier on this topic. There, I understood him to be contradicting
    > figures (sales rankings, if you like) entirely on the principle that "If it
    > isn't in stock, you ought to filter it out" (my paraphrasing)
    >
    > If that was/is the case, my contention is that the attitude is wrong - and
    > certaily if "in stock" means "we can send it today" while "not in stock"
    > means "we can send it tomorrow"!
    >


    As you say, they're all in stock, or available within a day or two, so I
    cannot imagine what the fuss is about. It's quite clear, though, that
    if it weren't for Windows XP, the numbers would be the same as the ones
    I posted a few months back which "matt" got so upset about, which was
    everything was linux and OSX at that time.

    Furthermore, I made it very clear that I'd used the netbooks list...

    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


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