Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron - Linux

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  1. Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    problem."
    #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15




  2. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    DFS wrote:

    > "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    > problem."
    > #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15



    This will come as a surprise to Hardon. I believe he uses Debian without any
    problems, or is he a liar too?

    --
    The years have been very kind to me.

    It's the weekends that have done all the damage!

  3. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    SomeBloke writes:

    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >> problem."
    >> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >
    >
    > This will come as a surprise to Hardon. I believe he uses Debian without any
    > problems, or is he a liar too?


    I use Debian Lenny (testing). There are frequently little problems as is
    to be expected with a development version but it is pretty rock solid
    most of the time.




  4. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    Hadron wrote:

    > SomeBloke writes:
    >
    >> DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>> problem."
    >>> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >>
    >>
    >> This will come as a surprise to Hardon. I believe he uses Debian without
    >> any problems, or is he a liar too?

    >
    > I use Debian Lenny (testing). There are frequently little problems as is
    > to be expected with a development version but it is pretty rock solid
    > most of the time.


    So do I, and as Hadron says, it's pretty near totally stable. But we're
    still waiting for the final announcement of that.
    --
    Facts are sacred ... but comment is free

  5. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    Robin T Cox writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> SomeBloke writes:
    >>
    >>> DFS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>>> problem."
    >>>> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> This will come as a surprise to Hardon. I believe he uses Debian without
    >>> any problems, or is he a liar too?

    >>
    >> I use Debian Lenny (testing). There are frequently little problems as is
    >> to be expected with a development version but it is pretty rock solid
    >> most of the time.

    >
    > So do I, and as Hadron says, it's pretty near totally stable. But we're
    > still waiting for the final announcement of that.


    No. I said rock solid. Stable means "not changing" in a Debian
    context. But both are pretty true now as Lenny is being frozen real soon
    .....

  6. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    ray wrote:

    > On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >> problem."
    >> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >
    > In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    > hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.


    As a Linux advocate, I have to be honest and say that in my experience with
    Kubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) the cause of random freezing with kernel 2.6.24
    that affected my machine cannot be due to hardware, since on my 3-hard
    drive setup I still have Kubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) and now Debian Lenny
    (with the 2.6.26 kernel on the old Hardy drive) running OK.

    There does seem to have been an obscure bug in the 2.6.24 kernel, which does
    not affect every hardware configuration since many Hardy users run quite
    satisfactorily. The history of this is described in the following link:

    http://lwn.net/Articles/287829/

    From which we should not infer that Linux is a bad OS, or Ubuntu a bad
    distro, but that inevitably if distros are going to tie themselves to rigid
    6-month release schedules then problems will occur, and go/no-go decisions
    about version releases will inevitably be taken on slender evidence.

    Which is another reason why I now prefer the Debian approach, of only making
    releases when testing is complete: not on some 6-month schedule.
    --
    Facts are sacred ... but comment is free

  7. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:14:26 GMT, Robin T Cox wrote:

    > ray wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>> problem."
    >>> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >>
    >> In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    >> hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.

    >
    > As a Linux advocate, I have to be honest and say that in my experience with
    > Kubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) the cause of random freezing with kernel 2.6.24
    > that affected my machine cannot be due to hardware, since on my 3-hard
    > drive setup I still have Kubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) and now Debian Lenny
    > (with the 2.6.26 kernel on the old Hardy drive) running OK.
    >
    > There does seem to have been an obscure bug in the 2.6.24 kernel, which does
    > not affect every hardware configuration since many Hardy users run quite
    > satisfactorily. The history of this is described in the following link:
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/287829/
    >
    > From which we should not infer that Linux is a bad OS, or Ubuntu a bad
    > distro, but that inevitably if distros are going to tie themselves to rigid
    > 6-month release schedules then problems will occur, and go/no-go decisions
    > about version releases will inevitably be taken on slender evidence.
    >
    > Which is another reason why I now prefer the Debian approach, of only making
    > releases when testing is complete: not on some 6-month schedule.


    Well I had stability problems with both versions of KUbuntu, the kde 4.x
    and kde 3.x versions.
    Weird stuff like the knotifier popping up and freezing the system and
    things like that.
    I'm normally a kde person, however I have been running Ubuntu Hardy with
    gnome (standard install, nothing special) and it has proven to be rock
    solid on my system.

    I suspect the kernel bug you mentioned along with compiz and pulseaudio are
    part of the problem with people having freezes.
    I have eye candy off and don't use pulseaudio.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  8. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    On 2008-10-06, ray claimed:
    > On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >> problem."
    >> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >
    > In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    > hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.


    If the same machine freezes on multiple OSes/distros, you can bet it's
    a hardware problem. Calling it the "same freezing problem" shows Etch
    was installed after something else froze.

    But DuFuS is an "expert" and can't be expected to know about things
    like that.

    Just so DuFuS can hear an example first hand, I'm having freezing
    problems, too. It happens when I hook certain drives to USB ports. It
    never happens when I hook some other drives and other devices to the
    same ports. But, unlike Doofie and the person Doof quoted above, I've
    determined that the power supply is too weak.

    I /could/ do the Smart© Thing© like DuFuS and blame the software. But
    I'm not an "expert" like he is, so I narrowed it down to the power
    supply.

    --
    Exxon sponsored ecology videos, Kraft sponsored nutrition videos...
    I'd be surprised if Microsoft isn't sponsoring technology classes.


  9. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    Robin T Cox writes:

    > ray wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>> problem."
    >>> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >>
    >> In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    >> hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.

    >
    > As a Linux advocate, I have to be honest and say that in my experience with
    > Kubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) the cause of random freezing with kernel 2.6.24
    > that affected my machine cannot be due to hardware, since on my 3-hard
    > drive setup I still have Kubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) and now Debian Lenny
    > (with the 2.6.26 kernel on the old Hardy drive) running OK.
    >
    > There does seem to have been an obscure bug in the 2.6.24 kernel, which does
    > not affect every hardware configuration since many Hardy users run quite
    > satisfactorily. The history of this is described in the following link:
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/287829/
    >
    > From which we should not infer that Linux is a bad OS, or Ubuntu a bad
    > distro, but that inevitably if distros are going to tie themselves to rigid
    > 6-month release schedules then problems will occur, and go/no-go decisions
    > about version releases will inevitably be taken on slender evidence.
    >
    > Which is another reason why I now prefer the Debian approach, of only making
    > releases when testing is complete: not on some 6-month schedule.


    You have echoed exactly what I have said in past posts about Ubuntu's
    release strategy. And Debian's. A good, decent balanced post. Well
    done. It's rare in this group.

  10. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    Sinister Midget writes:

    > On 2008-10-06, ray claimed:
    >> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>> problem."
    >>> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >>
    >> In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    >> hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.

    >
    > If the same machine freezes on multiple OSes/distros, you can bet it's
    > a hardware problem. Calling it the "same freezing problem" shows Etch
    > was installed after something else froze.


    Dont be so damn ignorant. Most distros share the same code bases. A bug
    in the kernel causing a lock could easily happen on multiple distros.

    >
    > But DuFuS is an "expert" and can't be expected to know about things
    > like that.


    One would hope not as you are wrong.


  11. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    Sinister Midget wrote:
    > On 2008-10-06, ray claimed:
    >> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same
    >>> freezing problem."
    >>> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >>
    >> In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    >> hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.

    >
    > If the same machine freezes on multiple OSes/distros, you can bet it's
    > a hardware problem. Calling it the "same freezing problem" shows Etch
    > was installed after something else froze.
    >
    > But DuFuS is an "expert" and can't be expected to know about things
    > like that.
    >
    > Just so DuFuS can hear an example first hand, I'm having freezing
    > problems, too. It happens when I hook certain drives to USB ports. It
    > never happens when I hook some other drives and other devices to the
    > same ports. But, unlike Doofie and the person Doof quoted above, I've
    > determined that the power supply is too weak.
    >
    > I /could/ do the Smart© Thing© like DuFuS and blame the software.
    > But I'm not an "expert" like he is, so I narrowed it down to the power
    > supply.


    Since it works perfectly well for you under Windows, what's your next
    excuse, Gidget?






  12. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    Robin T Cox wrote:

    > As a Linux advocate, I have to be honest and say that in my
    > experience with Kubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) the cause of random
    > freezing with kernel 2.6.24 that affected my machine cannot be due to
    > hardware,


    Of course it cannot. This is Linux we're talking about.


    > since on my 3-hard drive setup I still have Kubuntu 7.10
    > (Gutsy Gibbon) and now Debian Lenny (with the 2.6.26 kernel on the
    > old Hardy drive) running OK.
    >
    > There does seem to have been an obscure bug in the 2.6.24 kernel,
    > which does not affect every hardware configuration since many Hardy
    > users run quite satisfactorily. The history of this is described in
    > the following link:
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/287829/
    >
    > From which we should not infer that Linux is a bad OS


    Frequent random freezing for a year and a half across 3 Ubuntu versions,
    across all manner of hardware and apps, is the sign of a good operating
    system?



    > or Ubuntu a bad
    > distro, but that inevitably if distros are going to tie themselves to
    > rigid 6-month release schedules then problems will occur, and
    > go/no-go decisions about version releases will inevitably be taken on
    > slender evidence.
    >
    > Which is another reason why I now prefer the Debian approach, of only
    > making releases when testing is complete: not on some 6-month
    > schedule.


    When MS does the same thing, Linux idiots make fun of them for delays,
    vaporware, etc.





  13. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    ray wrote:
    > On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same
    >> freezing problem."
    >> #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    >
    > In my experience, if a Linux computer 'freezes' it is most likely a
    > hardware problem - e.g. dead or dying disk drive.


    Depends. Ubuntu has been randomly locking up on hundreds of users going
    back at least a year and a half.




  14. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:14:26 GMT, Robin T Cox wrote:

    >> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>> problem."


    > There does seem to have been an obscure bug in the 2.6.24 kernel, which does
    > not affect every hardware configuration since many Hardy users run quite
    > satisfactorily. The history of this is described in the following link:


    That would be easy to diagnose, since Debian "etch" by default installs
    2.6.18.


    --
    -| Comrade Bob Hauck
    -| Proud part owner of the People's Mortgage & Insurance Companies
    -| http://www.haucks.org/

  15. Re: Debian Stable: another Linux oxymoron

    On 2008-10-07, Bob Hauck claimed:
    > On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:14:26 GMT, Robin T Cox wrote:
    >
    >>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:43:58 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same freezing
    >>>> problem."

    >
    >> There does seem to have been an obscure bug in the 2.6.24 kernel, which does
    >> not affect every hardware configuration since many Hardy users run quite
    >> satisfactorily. The history of this is described in the following link:

    >
    > That would be easy to diagnose, since Debian "etch" by default installs
    > 2.6.18.


    Not if you're a DuFuS.

    --
    I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect
    that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an
    interpreter.


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