[News] [Rival] Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] [Rival] Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years - Linux ; "cc" wrote in message news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out > this bit o' wisdom: > > > I have no need of more certainty or religion. ...

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Thread: [News] [Rival] Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

  1. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years


    "cc" wrote in message
    news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
    On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    > > I have no need of more certainty or religion.

    >
    > Then why are you trying to pin down numbers that can't be pinned down?
    >


    I thought we established that I had pinned them down.

    The only thing that has been established and pinned down Queenie, is you are
    an Asshole. A Stupid Asshole. Are you wearing your big poofie purple dress
    and wig hat?

    See - two can play, Asshole.



  2. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

    On Oct 11, 8:44*am, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out
    > * this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Oct 10, 7:11*am, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > >> After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out
    > >> * this bit o' wisdom:

    >
    > >> > I've showed you a number and I've given you my justification for
    > >> > pinning it down, which included proof that it used an unbiased
    > >> > sampling method. The fact that you didn't respond to any of it doesn't
    > >> > mean it wasn't there.

    >
    > >> >http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

    >
    > >> > We'll call it 2% to make things easy. They used 53,232,929 samples,
    > >> > with 10 choices. So the standard deviation for that many samples with
    > >> > that many choices is 730 users. 2.57 * 730 is 1876.1, which means 99
    > >> > times out of 100, the survey will be 1876.1 users off of the mean for
    > >> > a particular OS.

    >
    > >> > So Linux usage is 2% +/- .0035% which is accurate 99% of the time.

    >
    > >> Idiot. *You haven't listened to a thing I said.

    >
    > > I responded to every silly thing you wrote, which is more than I can
    > > say of you. If you feel that I am wrong or have mislead in what I
    > > presented, please educate me. I'm not try to be facetious, I just
    > > haven't seen anything from you refuting anything.

    >
    > Just one thing. *Your w3counter numbers above are indeed a valid and
    > precise sample for w3counter. *It is highly likely that another such
    > sample taken a day later would show the same number to within a small
    > deviation.
    >
    > But you have not dealt with, at all, the subject of site bias.



    I have. What makes w3counter's sites more or less likely to be visited
    by linux users? Nothing. There is nothing about using Linux that
    biases you towards one site or another anymore. There is still a small
    group of idiots advertising IE only, but those sites aren't being
    used.

    If you would like, I'll post similar results for BBC.


    > That is why you see numbers all over the place, ranging from OneStat,
    > which still claims a 95% share for all Windows and a 0.4% share for
    > Linux, to w3schools, which shows 92% for Windows and 4% for Linux.
    >
    > That's an order of magnitude right there. *That may be good enough for
    > cosmology, but not for measuring "market share" among consumers.



    That's not an order of magnitude. Look at the last time they were
    updated, too. OneStat is old news. W3 Schools is for it's own site,
    which is not as good of a sample.

    > * *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems
    >
    > * *The information is derived from web browser user agent strings,
    > * *rather than sales information or surveys. This is not entirely
    > * *reliable because:
    >
    > * * * * web browsers do not always provide accurate information to web
    > * * * * servers.


    Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.


    > * * * * the sites reporting may be specific to a particular
    > * * * * operating system.


    For ****ty surveys. w3counters doesn't use that.

    > * * * * many computers are blocked from browsing to some
    > * * * * classes of sites by firewalls or filters


    Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.

    > * * * * some computers are not connected to the Internet


    Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.

    > * * * * some computers run more than one operating
    > * * * * system simultaneously (virtualization) or at
    > * * * * different times (multiple booting)



    Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.


    > * * * * the methodology (lists of sites, determination of operating
    > * * * * system, counting sessions, unique visitors, page hits, or
    > * * * * site hits) may be unrepresentative of the universe of
    > * * * * computers
    > * * * * one computer may be counted multiple times, others not
    > * * * * counted



    Explicitly state that it counts unique hits on the surveys.

    > * * * * clients using one OS may be running a session on
    > * * * * another computer using a different OS
    >



    Can afffect Windows, Mac, and Linux equally.


    Basically, they're saying that statistics aren't exact, not that Linux
    is getting the shaft.


    > It's not even clear that doing a weighted average of all surveys would
    > remove bias.



    This bias you say exists is rare, and certainly only for poorly
    crafted surveys.


    > And that's just for HTTP.
    >
    > What about FTP, torrent, gnutella, SSH, even rsync? *And what about
    > people who simply use Linux as a home server?



    What about them? Some of those *are* biased towards Linux. And what
    about people who simply use Windows as a home server? We are talking
    about desktops aren't we?

    > Linux is dark matter. *We know it is there, there's too much radiation
    > emanating from it. *But we don't know how much is being absorbed by the
    > visible matter.
    >


    Dark matter is hypothetical. And even then about 22% is thought to be
    dark matter, and 74% is thought to be dark energy. We don't know exact
    numbers, but we can make a pretty good guess.

  3. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

    On Oct 11, 9:16*am, "Mocassin Joe" wrote:
    > "cc" wrote in message
    >
    > news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
    > On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >
    > > After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out
    > > this bit o' wisdom:

    >
    > > > I have no need of more certainty or religion.

    >
    > > Then why are you trying to pin down numbers that can't be pinned down?

    >
    > I thought we established that I had pinned them down.
    >
    > The only thing that has been established and pinned down Queenie, is you are
    > an Asshole. *A Stupid Asshole. *Are you wearing your big poofie purple dress
    > and wig hat?
    >
    > See - two can play, Asshole.


    Pinning people down wearing dresses and wigs and playing with
    assholes? You are one kinky dude. I bet there's some assplay groups
    out there or something that you would be more comfortable in.

  4. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Mocassin Joe belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > "cc" wrote in message
    > news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
    > On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >>
    >> > I have no need of more certainty or religion.

    >>
    >> Then why are you trying to pin down numbers that can't be pinned down?

    >
    > I thought we established that I had pinned them down.


    I think the above sentence is cc's.

    > The only thing that has been established and pinned down ...


    Moccasin's scurrilosity (sic) snipped.

    Hey, cc, I know we're arguing right now, and I called you an idiot, but
    no hard feelings on my end, really.

    --
    Unix: Some say the learning curve is steep, but you only have to climb it once.
    -- Karl Lehenbauer

  5. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

    After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > That's not an order of magnitude. Look at the last time they were
    > updated, too. OneStat is old news.


    Nah. Check them out again, for Oct 2008.

    > W3 Schools is for it's own site,
    > which is not as good of a sample.
    >
    >> * *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems
    >>
    >> * *The information is derived from web browser user agent strings,
    >> * *rather than sales information or surveys. This is not entirely
    >> * *reliable because:
    >>
    >> * * * * web browsers do not always provide accurate information to web
    >> * * * * servers.

    >
    > Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.


    Windows and Mac? Why would it affect them? Sites put code in that
    /allows/ those systems.

    >> * * * * the sites reporting may be specific to a particular
    >> * * * * operating system.

    >
    > For ****ty surveys. w3counters doesn't use that.


    Agreed.

    >> * * * * many computers are blocked from browsing to some
    >> * * * * classes of sites by firewalls or filters

    >
    > Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.


    Not quite -- work desktops, dominated by mandated Windows, are blocked
    from a lot of sites. But I agree that could be a bias against Windows.

    >> * * * * some computers are not connected to the Internet

    >
    > Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.


    No so sure about that. I'll agree, on the home front.

    >> * * * * some computers run more than one operating
    >> * * * * system simultaneously (virtualization) or at
    >> * * * * different times (multiple booting)

    >
    > Can affect Windows, Mac, or Linux equally.


    I'd have to say that you're more likely to find that the user is /not/
    browsing via the virtualized system.

    > Basically, they're saying that statistics aren't exact, not that Linux
    > is getting the shaft.


    Okay, I'll agree, though not 100%.

    >> It's not even clear that doing a weighted average of all surveys would
    >> remove bias.

    >
    > This bias you say exists is rare, and certainly only for poorly
    > crafted surveys.


    That is an unknown. Neither you nor I know that.

    Nor do we know just how many /automated/ systems are trawling the web...
    robots.txt is just a request.

    >> What about FTP, torrent, gnutella, SSH, even rsync? *And what about
    >> people who simply use Linux as a home server?

    >
    > What about them? Some of those *are* biased towards Linux. And what
    > about people who simply use Windows as a home server? We are talking
    > about desktops aren't we?


    Aye, ya got me laddie!

    >> Linux is dark matter. *We know it is there, there's too much radiation
    >> emanating from it. *But we don't know how much is being absorbed by the
    >> visible matter.

    >
    > Dark matter is hypothetical. And even then about 22% is thought to be
    > dark matter, and 74% is thought to be dark energy. We don't know exact
    > numbers, but we can make a pretty good guess.


    We probably need a corollary to Godwin's law involving analogies:

    When a thread brings up an automobile or physics analogy, that thread
    shall terminate.



    And thanks for being civil (more civil than I, in fact!)

    --
    Immutability, Three Rules of:
    (1) If a tarpaulin can flap, it will.
    (2) If a small boy can get dirty, he will.
    (3) If a teenager can go out, he will.

  6. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years


    "cc" wrote in message
    news:fa69eb44-29b3-4efe-b20d-ba90d9d9de9e@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
    On Oct 11, 9:16 am, "Mocassin Joe" wrote:
    > "cc" wrote in message
    >
    > news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
    > On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >
    > > After takin' a swig o' grog, cc belched out
    > > this bit o' wisdom:

    >
    > > > I have no need of more certainty or religion.

    >
    > > Then why are you trying to pin down numbers that can't be pinned down?

    >
    > I thought we established that I had pinned them down.
    >
    > The only thing that has been established and pinned down Queenie, is you
    > are
    > an Asshole. A Stupid Asshole. Are you wearing your big poofie purple dress
    > and wig hat?
    >
    > See - two can play, Asshole.


    Pinning people down wearing dresses and wigs and playing with
    assholes? You are one kinky dude. I bet there's some assplay groups
    out there or something that you would be more comfortable in.

    Is that what you read in my answer???!!!!!!

    You are a strange dude, Asshole.



  7. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years


    "Chris Ahlstrom" wrote in message
    news:s34Ik.45019$XT1.14592@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Mocassin Joe belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> "cc" wrote in message
    >> news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
    >> On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > I have no need of more certainty or religion.
    >>>
    >>> Then why are you trying to pin down numbers that can't be pinned down?

    >>
    >> I thought we established that I had pinned them down.

    >
    > I think the above sentence is cc's.
    >
    >> The only thing that has been established and pinned down ...

    >
    > Moccasin's scurrilosity (sic) snipped.
    >
    > Hey, cc, I know we're arguing right now, and I called you an idiot, but
    > no hard feelings on my end, really.


    He is to big an Asshole to know where you're coming from.



  8. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

    On Oct 11, 12:03*pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Mocassin Joe belched out
    > * this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    > > "cc" wrote in message
    > >news:1519de68-e8c2-4d70-97ae-65c22540b53e@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com....
    > > On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    >
    > >> > I have no need of more certainty or religion.

    >
    > >> Then why are you trying to pin down numbers that can't be pinned down?

    >
    > > I thought we established that I had pinned them down.

    >
    > I think the above sentence is cc's.
    >
    > > The only thing that has been established and pinned down ...

    >
    > Moccasin's scurrilosity (sic) snipped.
    >
    > Hey, cc, I know we're arguing right now, and I called you an idiot, but
    > no hard feelings on my end, really.
    >


    In my opinion, idiot can be thrown around without any hard feelings
    intended at all. It's no big deal and I would go as far as to say that
    no one should ever feel the need to apologize to me for whatever they
    call me. It's just usenet, and it's fun to argue your position. Things
    like this are not meant to be taken seriously.

  9. Re: Vista at 4% in Businesses After Almost 2 years

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Mocassin Joe belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    >> Moccasin's scurrilosity (sic) snipped.


    *plonk*

    --
    Norm: Hey, everybody.
    All: [silence; everybody is mad at Norm for being rich.]
    Norm: [Carries on both sides of the conversation himself.]
    Norm! (Norman.)
    How are you feeling today, Norm?
    Rich and thirsty. Pour me a beer.
    -- Cheers, Tan 'n Wash
    Woody: What's the latest, Mr. Peterson?
    Norm: Zsa-Zsa marries a millionaire, Peterson drinks a beer.
    Film at eleven.
    -- Cheers, Knights of the Scimitar
    Woody: How are you today, Mr. Peterson?
    Norm: Never been better, Woody. ... Just once I'd like to be better.
    -- Cheers, Chambers vs. Malone

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