[News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune - Linux ; -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 UK banking fraud losses rise to £301.7m ,----[ Quote ] | UK banking losses due to fraud in the first half of 2008 hit £301.7m compared | to £263.6m in the same period last ...

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  1. [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

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    UK banking fraud losses rise to £301.7m

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | UK banking losses due to fraud in the first half of 2008 hit £301.7m compared
    | to £263.6m in the same period last year, according to the latest figures from
    | UK banking association APACS.
    |
    | Fraud abroad made up 40 per cent of total card fraud losses reaching £121.2m
    | in the period, up 11 per cent of the £108.8m lost last year. That loss was
    | through tactics such as the use of counterfeit plastic cards with stolen PINs
    | on machines overseas that only check magnetic strips, not chips.
    `----

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10...g_fraud_soars/


    Related:

    Online banking fraud 'up 8,000%'

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The UK has seen an 8,000% increase in fake internet banking scams
    | in the past two years, the government's financial watchdog has warned.
    |
    | The Financial Services Authority (FSA) told peers it was "very concerned"
    | about the growth in "phishing".
    `----

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6177555.stm


    Online banking fraud 'up 8,000%'

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The UK has seen an 8,000% increase in fake internet banking scams
    | in the past two years, the government's financial watchdog has warned.
    |
    | The Financial Services Authority (FSA) told peers it was "very concerned"
    | about the growth in "phishing".
    `----

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6177555.stm
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  2. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers aFortune

    On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    [snip]

    Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of
    the 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.

    You are not doing Linux advocacy any service by posting articles with
    misleading subject lines. All it does is allow the trolls who infect
    this newsgroup to attack you. And why shouldn't they. You subject line
    is a lie.

    Of course, if your aim is to become a [News] reporter for the Sun
    newspaper then you are doing a grand job.

  3. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 23:36:48 +0000 (UTC), Rob Schwenk wrote:

    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of
    > the 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.
    >
    > You are not doing Linux advocacy any service by posting articles with
    > misleading subject lines. All it does is allow the trolls who infect
    > this newsgroup to attack you. And why shouldn't they. You subject line
    > is a lie.
    >
    > Of course, if your aim is to become a [News] reporter for the Sun
    > newspaper then you are doing a grand job.


    Roy would be a better fit for the National Examiner.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Examiner

    Stuff like:

    "Angelina Jolee has an alien baby, via Microsoft Windows"
    and so forth..




    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  4. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers aFortune

    On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:52:36 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 23:36:48 +0000 (UTC), Rob Schwenk wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of the
    >> 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.
    >>
    >> You are not doing Linux advocacy any service by posting articles with
    >> misleading subject lines. All it does is allow the trolls who infect
    >> this newsgroup to attack you. And why shouldn't they. You subject line
    >> is a lie.
    >>
    >> Of course, if your aim is to become a [News] reporter for the Sun
    >> newspaper then you are doing a grand job.

    >
    > Roy would be a better fit for the National Examiner.
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Examiner
    >
    > Stuff like:
    >
    > "Angelina Jolee has an alien baby, via Microsoft Windows" and so forth..


    You clearly have never read the Sun. :-)

  5. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Rob Schwenk on Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:36 : \____

    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of
    > the 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.
    >
    > You are not doing Linux advocacy any service by posting articles with
    > misleading subject lines. All it does is allow the trolls who infect
    > this newsgroup to attack you. And why shouldn't they. You subject line
    > is a lie.
    >
    > Of course, if your aim is to become a [News] reporter for the Sun
    > newspaper then you are doing a grand job.


    Oops. I pasted the wrong thing, not the reference showing that 40% of the PCs
    are zombies. My bad...

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Disk quota exceeded; sig discontinued"
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    00:00:01 up 14 days, 7:39, 2 users, load average: 11.05, 11.28, 11.20
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
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  6. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 23:56:48 +0000 (UTC), Rob Schwenk wrote:

    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:52:36 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 23:36:48 +0000 (UTC), Rob Schwenk wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>
    >>> [snip]
    >>>
    >>> Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of the
    >>> 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.
    >>>
    >>> You are not doing Linux advocacy any service by posting articles with
    >>> misleading subject lines. All it does is allow the trolls who infect
    >>> this newsgroup to attack you. And why shouldn't they. You subject line
    >>> is a lie.
    >>>
    >>> Of course, if your aim is to become a [News] reporter for the Sun
    >>> newspaper then you are doing a grand job.

    >>
    >> Roy would be a better fit for the National Examiner.
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Examiner
    >>
    >> Stuff like:
    >>
    >> "Angelina Jolee has an alien baby, via Microsoft Windows" and so forth..

    >
    > You clearly have never read the Sun. :-)


    Hahaha!
    Just Googled!

    I would say you have me on that one!

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  7. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:01:13 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > ____/ Rob Schwenk on Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:36 : \____
    >
    >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of
    >> the 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.
    >>
    >> You are not doing Linux advocacy any service by posting articles with
    >> misleading subject lines. All it does is allow the trolls who infect
    >> this newsgroup to attack you. And why shouldn't they. You subject line
    >> is a lie.
    >>
    >> Of course, if your aim is to become a [News] reporter for the Sun
    >> newspaper then you are doing a grand job.

    >
    > Oops. I pasted the wrong thing, not the reference showing that 40% of the PCs
    > are zombies. My bad...
    >
    > - --
    > ~~ Best of wishes
    >
    > Roy S. Schestowitz | "Disk quota exceeded; sig discontinued"
    > http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    > 00:00:01 up 14 days, 7:39, 2 users, load average: 11.05, 11.28, 11.20
    > http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
    >
    > iEYEARECAAYFAkjkD0kACgkQU4xAY3RXLo716ACeNiuojFWaGH YUXnZ594+k+HBb
    > BAEAmgJs/OF/RluzSEEVKj2IvBO/3cFK
    > =Aviv
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


    That's the least of your errors.....
    It's the ones you do on purpose that are making you look like a fool.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  8. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers aFortune

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > That's the least of your errors.....
    > It's the ones you do on purpose that are making you look like a fool.
    >


    Speaking of fools, remind us all why you're here again flattie.

  9. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers aFortune

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    >
    > UK banking fraud losses rise to £301.7m
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| UK banking losses due to fraud in the first half of 2008 hit £301.7m compared
    >| to £263.6m in the same period last year, according to the latest figures from
    >| UK banking association APACS.
    >|
    >| Fraud abroad made up 40 per cent of total card fraud losses reaching £121.2m
    >| in the period, up 11 per cent of the £108.8m lost last year. That loss was
    >| through tactics such as the use of counterfeit plastic cards with stolen PINs
    >| on machines overseas that only check magnetic strips, not chips.
    > `----
    >
    > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10...g_fraud_soars/
    >


    One wonders where the stolen pins came from? Are any UK banks still
    using Windows for online banking?

    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


  10. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Rob Schwenk belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of
    > the 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.


    Hmm. I agree here. And they talk of phishing, not zombies.

    --
    "The clergy successfully preached the doctrines of patience and pusillanimity;
    the active virtues of society were discouraged; and the last remains of a
    military spirit were buried in the cloister: a large portion of public and
    private wealth was consecrated to the specious demands of charity and devotion;
    and the soldiers' pay was lavished on the useless multitudes of both sexes
    who could only plead the merits of abstinence and chastity."
    -- Edward Gibbons, _The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_

  11. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Thursday 02 October 2008 12:03 : \____

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Rob Schwenk belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:58:38 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> Why the misleading headline? The articles linked in your post (2 of
    >> the 3 being identical!!!) have nothing to do with 'Windows Zombies'.

    >
    > Hmm. I agree here. And they talk of phishing, not zombies.


    Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies (zombies) so
    as not to be identified and caught. Try running a phishing operation from your
    own personal PC/s and see how far it goes.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    "I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the
    public good."
    --Adam Smith
    http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Cpu(s): 17.6%us, 38.8%sy, 0.1%ni, 42.4%id, 0.7%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.4%si, 0.0%st
    http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information
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  12. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies (zombies) so
    > as not to be identified and caught.


    I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.

    > "I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the
    > public good."
    > --Adam Smith


    --
    You can't hurt me!! I have an ASSUMABLE MORTGAGE!!

  13. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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    ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Thursday 02 October 2008 13:40 : \____

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies (zombies)
    >> so as not to be identified and caught.

    >
    > I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.


    True, but if it's a 'trusted' one, there's liability and it's easier to track
    down the culprit. Think about renting a car to commit bank robbery versus
    stealing a car.

    >> "I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the
    >> public good."
    >> --Adam Smith

    >


    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Have you hugged your penguin today?
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    15:20:01 up 14 days, 22:59, 2 users, load average: 12.51, 11.71, 11.56
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
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  14. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:17:09 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:


    > Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies (zombies) so
    > as not to be identified and caught. Try running a phishing operation from your
    > own personal PC/s and see how far it goes.


    Speaking from experience Roy?

    Is that what your trojan infected server, www.schestowitz.com was doing
    when it was 0wned a few months ago, Schestowitz?

    How did you mange to let that happen?


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  15. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers aFortune

    Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o'
    > wisdom:


    >> Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies
    >> (zombies) so as not to be identified and caught.

    >
    > I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.


    And Phishing isn't really "brute-force" either, it's social engineering
    via Email and/or tricks like cross-site scripting.

    The part that proxies play in this, is invariably sending the spam that
    forms the first stage of the Phishing attack - i.e. a fake notification
    to check your bank statement online, with a link to a fake site. Unless
    the Phisher can find a spam-friendly host, it is likely to be unwitting
    users on compromised machines (zombies), though the fake bank site will
    be something hosted in a non-MLAT jurisdiction. The attack that changes
    some poor sod's machine into a zombie might conceivably be described as
    "brute force", although given how easily Windows is compromised, that's
    more of a walk-in than a break-in, hence the severity and extent of the
    problem.

    So in that sense "Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune"
    is fairly accurate, indirectly. It's certainly plays a pivotal role.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
    | the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
    | weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
    18:17:33 up 47 days, 15:30, 5 users, load average: 0.13, 0.15, 0.16

  16. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    In article ,
    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    > this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    > > Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies
    > > (zombies) so as not to be identified and caught.

    >
    > I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.


    More importantly, phishing generally requires a server, in order to host
    the web site that the phisher is trying to get people to go to. Quite
    often, that web site is on a compromised *Linux* host.

    That's the side of phishing Roy never seems to talk about. He's only
    interested, it seems, in the side of phishing that involves using
    compromised Windows machines to do things like send phishing email.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  17. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:28:45 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    >> this bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >>> Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies
    >>> (zombies) so as not to be identified and caught.

    >>
    >> I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.

    >
    > More importantly, phishing generally requires a server, in order to host
    > the web site that the phisher is trying to get people to go to. Quite
    > often, that web site is on a compromised *Linux* host.


    You mean like Roy Schestowitz's own site, www.schestowitz.com which was
    0wned a couple of months ago due to it being trojan infested.

    > That's the side of phishing Roy never seems to talk about. He's only
    > interested, it seems, in the side of phishing that involves using
    > compromised Windows machines to do things like send phishing email.


    Of course not.
    It's always Window's fault.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
    Please Visit www.linsux.org

  18. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
    this bit o' wisdom:

    > In article ,
    > Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
    >> this bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >> > Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies
    >> > (zombies) so as not to be identified and caught.

    >>
    >> I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.

    >
    > More importantly, phishing generally requires a server, in order to host
    > the web site that the phisher is trying to get people to go to. Quite
    > often, that web site is on a compromised *Linux* host.
    >
    > That's the side of phishing Roy never seems to talk about. He's only
    > interested, it seems, in the side of phishing that involves using
    > compromised Windows machines to do things like send phishing email.


    http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/...25736A000E4723

    "We see a lot of Linux machines used in phishing," said Alfred Huger,
    vice president for Symantec Security Response. "We see them as part
    of the command and control networks for botnets, but we rarely see
    them be the actual bots. Botnets are almost uniformly Windows-based."

    Since Linux machines can be used to more easily create specially
    crafted networking packets, they can be used in highly sophisticated
    online attacks, said Iftach Amit, director of security research with
    Finjan's malicious code research centre.

    Capabilities like this make Linux machines highly coveted by online
    attackers, and they fetch a premium in the underground marketplace
    for compromised machines, Amit said.



    --
    QOTD:
    Flash! Flash! I love you! ...but we only have fourteen hours to
    save the earth!

  19. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune

    In article ,
    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    > > More importantly, phishing generally requires a server, in order to host
    > > the web site that the phisher is trying to get people to go to. Quite
    > > often, that web site is on a compromised *Linux* host.

    ....
    >
    > http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/...25736A000E4723
    >
    > "We see a lot of Linux machines used in phishing," said Alfred Huger,
    > vice president for Symantec Security Response. "We see them as part
    > of the command and control networks for botnets, but we rarely see
    > them be the actual bots. Botnets are almost uniformly Windows-based."
    >
    > Since Linux machines can be used to more easily create specially
    > crafted networking packets, they can be used in highly sophisticated
    > online attacks, said Iftach Amit, director of security research with
    > Finjan's malicious code research centre.
    >
    > Capabilities like this make Linux machines highly coveted by online
    > attackers, and they fetch a premium in the underground marketplace
    > for compromised machines, Amit said.
    >
    >


    Oh well, at least it shows Linux and Windows can work together in large,
    real-world applications! :-)

    --
    --Tim Smith

  20. Re: [News] [Rival] Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers aFortune

    Homer espoused:
    > Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o'
    >> wisdom:

    >
    >>> Phishing is a brute-force thing (botnets) which requires proxies
    >>> (zombies) so as not to be identified and caught.

    >>
    >> I don't think so. A proxy isn't automatically a zombie.

    >
    > And Phishing isn't really "brute-force" either, it's social engineering
    > via Email and/or tricks like cross-site scripting.
    >
    > The part that proxies play in this, is invariably sending the spam that
    > forms the first stage of the Phishing attack - i.e. a fake notification
    > to check your bank statement online, with a link to a fake site. Unless
    > the Phisher can find a spam-friendly host, it is likely to be unwitting
    > users on compromised machines (zombies), though the fake bank site will
    > be something hosted in a non-MLAT jurisdiction. The attack that changes
    > some poor sod's machine into a zombie might conceivably be described as
    > "brute force", although given how easily Windows is compromised, that's
    > more of a walk-in than a break-in, hence the severity and extent of the
    > problem.
    >
    > So in that sense "Windows Zombies Cost UK Banks and Customers a Fortune"
    > is fairly accurate, indirectly. It's certainly plays a pivotal role.
    >


    Clearly, without the botnets, the phishing scams couldn't exist in the
    first place, so the headline is correct.

    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


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