Amazon's best selling laptops run ... - Linux

This is a discussion on Amazon's best selling laptops run ... - Linux ; Peter Köhlmann writes: > Hadron wrote: > >> Peter Köhlmann writes: >> >>> Hadron wrote: >>> >>>> chrisv writes: >>>> >>>>> Linonut wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hadron snotted: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. ...

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  1. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Peter Köhlmann writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> chrisv writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Hadron snotted:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you made
    >>>>>>>> the numbers up.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I didn't "make up numbers".
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Pay him no mind. That's just Hadrone wearing his ****-colored glasses.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ignore the troll! 8)
    >>>>
    >>>> So would you like to point out the "real numbers" Rasker based all this
    >>>> on?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Nope. Far better
    >>>
    >>> *You* will pinpoint where he made the numbers up

    >>
    >> Err, in his post.

    >
    > Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his "making
    > the numbers up"


    All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    the sales position (which is probably out of date too).

    >
    >>>
    >>> After all, you claimed he did. Your math should prove interesting

    >>

    >
    > And just repeating that he did make them up won't cut the mustard


    It will have to. If you are too stupid to see it was a work of fiction
    then dont give up the day job (as a Windows programmer).

    --
    "Maybe he knows where the body is because he saw where
    it was put." -- "Rick" defending Hans Reiser (his hero) in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  2. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Hadron wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> chrisv writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Hadron snotted:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you made
    >>>>>>>>> the numbers up.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I didn't "make up numbers".
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Pay him no mind. That's just Hadrone wearing his ****-colored
    >>>>>>>glasses.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Ignore the troll! 8)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So would you like to point out the "real numbers" Rasker based all
    >>>>> this on?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Nope. Far better
    >>>>
    >>>> *You* will pinpoint where he made the numbers up
    >>>
    >>> Err, in his post.

    >>
    >> Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his
    >> "making the numbers up"

    >
    > All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    > the sales position (which is probably out of date too).


    It is not the question if I can point to (or not)
    *You* claimed he made the numbers up.
    Now you want to put the burden of proof for your lie upon others

    >>
    >>>>
    >>>> After all, you claimed he did. Your math should prove interesting
    >>>

    >>
    >> And just repeating that he did make them up won't cut the mustard

    >
    > It will have to. If you are too stupid to see it was a work of fiction
    > then dont give up the day job (as a Windows programmer).
    >


    The cowards weasel out. It was to be expected.
    You lied, you were caught and now you want to weasel out of it
    --
    Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with
    none.


  3. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Peter Köhlmann writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> chrisv writes:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Hadron snotted:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you made
    >>>>>>>>>> the numbers up.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> I didn't "make up numbers".
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Pay him no mind. That's just Hadrone wearing his ****-colored
    >>>>>>>>glasses.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Ignore the troll! 8)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So would you like to point out the "real numbers" Rasker based all
    >>>>>> this on?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Nope. Far better
    >>>>>
    >>>>> *You* will pinpoint where he made the numbers up
    >>>>
    >>>> Err, in his post.
    >>>
    >>> Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his
    >>> "making the numbers up"

    >>
    >> All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    >> the sales position (which is probably out of date too).

    >
    > It is not the question if I can point to (or not)
    > *You* claimed he made the numbers up.
    > Now you want to put the burden of proof for your lie upon others


    Are you insane?

    There are NO numbers there that are NOT made up. EXCEPT for the sales
    position.

    What the hell more do you need to know?

    My god. You really are as incompetent as Snit claims.

  4. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Hadron wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> chrisv writes:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Hadron snotted:
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you
    >>>>>>>>>>> made the numbers up.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> I didn't "make up numbers".
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>Pay him no mind. That's just Hadrone wearing his ****-colored
    >>>>>>>>>glasses.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Ignore the troll! 8)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> So would you like to point out the "real numbers" Rasker based all
    >>>>>>> this on?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Nope. Far better
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> *You* will pinpoint where he made the numbers up
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Err, in his post.
    >>>>
    >>>> Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his
    >>>> "making the numbers up"
    >>>
    >>> All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    >>> the sales position (which is probably out of date too).

    >>
    >> It is not the question if I can point to (or not)
    >> *You* claimed he made the numbers up.
    >> Now you want to put the burden of proof for your lie upon others

    >
    > Are you insane?
    >
    > There are NO numbers there that are NOT made up. EXCEPT for the sales
    > position.


    So point to them. You /can/ do that, right, Hadron Quark?
    And explain why they are made up. Explain your reasoning.

    You try since several posts to weasel around that very issue. In short, you
    lied. Again

    > What the hell more do you need to know?


    Why you have to lie constantly would be a good start

    > My god. You really are as incompetent as Snit claims.


    Whatever Snot Michael Glasser claims, it is irrelevant
    --
    The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
    the day they start making vacuum cleaners.


  5. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Peter Köhlmann writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> chrisv writes:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Hadron snotted:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you
    >>>>>>>>>>>> made the numbers up.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> I didn't "make up numbers".
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>Pay him no mind. That's just Hadrone wearing his ****-colored
    >>>>>>>>>>glasses.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Ignore the troll! 8)
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> So would you like to point out the "real numbers" Rasker based all
    >>>>>>>> this on?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Nope. Far better
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> *You* will pinpoint where he made the numbers up
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Err, in his post.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his
    >>>>> "making the numbers up"
    >>>>
    >>>> All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    >>>> the sales position (which is probably out of date too).
    >>>
    >>> It is not the question if I can point to (or not)
    >>> *You* claimed he made the numbers up.
    >>> Now you want to put the burden of proof for your lie upon others

    >>
    >> Are you insane?
    >>
    >> There are NO numbers there that are NOT made up. EXCEPT for the sales
    >> position.

    >
    > So point to them. You /can/ do that, right, Hadron Quark?
    > And explain why they are made up. Explain your reasoning.


    Point to what? Every single number except .. oh we have done that.

    >
    > You try since several posts to weasel around that very issue. In short, you
    > lied. Again


    Seriously. What are you talking about. Everything there is an estimate
    based on his biased criteria.

    >
    >> What the hell more do you need to know?

    >
    > Why you have to lie constantly would be a good start


    You're insane.

    >
    >> My god. You really are as incompetent as Snit claims.

    >
    > Whatever Snot Michael Glasser claims, it is irrelevant


    Not in this case.

    --
    "I program Windows systems yes. But I am not a Windows user."
    Peter Koehlmann, COLA.

  6. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Hadron wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Peter Köhlmann writes:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> chrisv writes:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Hadron snotted:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> made the numbers up.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't "make up numbers".
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>Pay him no mind. That's just Hadrone wearing his ****-colored
    >>>>>>>>>>>glasses.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Ignore the troll! 8)
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> So would you like to point out the "real numbers" Rasker based all
    >>>>>>>>> this on?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Nope. Far better
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> *You* will pinpoint where he made the numbers up
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Err, in his post.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his
    >>>>>> "making the numbers up"
    >>>>>
    >>>>> All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    >>>>> the sales position (which is probably out of date too).
    >>>>
    >>>> It is not the question if I can point to (or not)
    >>>> *You* claimed he made the numbers up.
    >>>> Now you want to put the burden of proof for your lie upon others
    >>>
    >>> Are you insane?
    >>>
    >>> There are NO numbers there that are NOT made up. EXCEPT for the sales
    >>> position.

    >>
    >> So point to them. You /can/ do that, right, Hadron Quark?
    >> And explain why they are made up. Explain your reasoning.

    >
    > Point to what? Every single number except .. oh we have done that.


    Nope. *We* have done nothing of that sort

    >>
    >> You try since several posts to weasel around that very issue. In short,
    >> you lied. Again

    >
    > Seriously. What are you talking about. Everything there is an estimate
    > based on his biased criteria.


    If it is "biased" you can certainly explain why and where

    >>
    >>> What the hell more do you need to know?

    >>
    >> Why you have to lie constantly would be a good start

    >
    > You're insane.


    Even if it were true, it still does not explain your constant lying

    >>
    >>> My god. You really are as incompetent as Snit claims.

    >>
    >> Whatever Snot Michael Glasser claims, it is irrelevant

    >
    > Not in this case.
    >


    In every case
    --
    It's sweet to be remembered, but it's often cheaper to be forgotten.


  7. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Peter Khlmann wrote:

    >Hadron snotted:
    >>
    >> Peter Khlmann writes:
    >>>
    >>> Ah, yes. Now please *explain* (as in "pinpoint") what points to his
    >>> "making the numbers up"


    >>> And just repeating that he did make them up won't cut the mustard

    >>
    >> It will have to. If you are too stupid to see it was a work of fiction
    >> then dont give up the day job (as a Windows programmer).

    >
    >The cowards weasel out. It was to be expected.
    >You lied, you were caught and now you want to weasel out of it


    Typical Quack.

    --
    "I'm asking **you** to provide proof or shut the **** up making
    unfounded accusations." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

  8. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Hadron wrote:

    > Peter Köhlmann writes:


    > All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    > the sales position (which is probably out of date too).


    The sales position was approximately an hour old when I posted them; note
    that these positions can shift slightly from minute to minute.

    About "making up numbers": if, for instance, I ask you what Vista Home
    Premium OEM costs, and you say it's $500, or $20, or $10,000 for my part --
    THEN you clearly made something up. If, on the other hand, you can't tell
    precisely, but you say it's $150 or thereabouts, because you heard that
    Home Basic is $100, and Business is $200, is that "made up"? Nope, it's an
    educated guess, an acceptable estimate, and only a really pathetic anal
    retentive moron will call you a liar or cry that you "just made it up".

    Same for sales percentages according to sales ranking. No way that the first
    two Windows computers in the ranking account for 95% of all sales, with all
    the other 250 machines accounting for the other 5% -- as Tim Smith already
    explained, if you have lots (several hundreds) of items with more or less
    the same functionality, competing in a rather homogenous market, you will
    always find that sales percentages follow a declining curve. This fact
    alone means that you can make estimates which are fairly accurate, unless
    something extraordinary is happening (e.g. a product hype, or a super stunt
    offer). And a fairly accurate (as in: no more than perhaps 15% off)
    estimate is something different than your suggestion of "lies" and "all
    made up".

    Yeah, sure, an estimate isn't the exact figure -- that's the very nature of
    an estimate. But an estimate isn't "made up", as in "choose any number".

    Besides, to account for this, I explicitly said that my spreadsheet offered
    the option to vary the number of models to explore the boundaries of the
    estimates. Together with mr. Smith's correction re inverted power curve,
    it's almost impossible that the actual sales figures fall outside the
    ranges calculated in my spreadsheet. So I calculated estimates, and
    presented these as such. And heck yeah, chances are that Linux IS
    outselling Windows at Amazon's.

    Anyway, I think I'll create a little script to automate the gathering of
    this data, and present weekly updates of these sales estimates. I even feel
    a rather childish urge to sign them off with "Courtesy of our beloved mr.
    Hadron", but I guess that would be too much of an honour for you.

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  9. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    After takin' a swig o' grog, Richard Rasker belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > About "making up numbers": if, for instance, I ask you what Vista Home
    > Premium OEM costs, and you say it's $500, or $20, or $10,000 for my part --
    > THEN you clearly made something up. If, on the other hand, you can't tell
    > precisely, but you say it's $150 or thereabouts, because you heard that
    > Home Basic is $100, and Business is $200, is that "made up"? Nope, it's an
    > educated guess, an acceptable estimate, and only a really pathetic anal
    > retentive moron will call you a liar or cry that you "just made it up".


    That's one thing you need to learn about Hadrone -- Everything he says
    is the Truth, and everything you say is the Lie.

    And /he/ will be the one to tell you what you said, not /you/.


  10. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Richard Rasker writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Köhlmann writes:

    >
    >> All of them. Can you point to one single real number there other than
    >> the sales position (which is probably out of date too).

    >
    > The sales position was approximately an hour old when I posted them; note
    > that these positions can shift slightly from minute to minute.


    "Sales position". Not the sames numbers. And even if there were some for
    ONE of the many that is still not enough data to make any form for
    reliable guess (other than place 7 sells less than place 6 and up) as to
    the sales numbers of the others. Jesus you're being thick today.

    You're becoming more long winded and evasive with every lying "poast"
    you make.

  11. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Chris Ahlstrom writes:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, Richard Rasker belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> About "making up numbers": if, for instance, I ask you what Vista Home
    >> Premium OEM costs, and you say it's $500, or $20, or $10,000 for my part --
    >> THEN you clearly made something up. If, on the other hand, you can't tell
    >> precisely, but you say it's $150 or thereabouts, because you heard that
    >> Home Basic is $100, and Business is $200, is that "made up"? Nope, it's an
    >> educated guess, an acceptable estimate, and only a really pathetic anal
    >> retentive moron will call you a liar or cry that you "just made it up".

    >
    > That's one thing you need to learn about Hadrone -- Everything he says
    > is the Truth, and everything you say is the Lie.
    >
    > And /he/ will be the one to tell you what you said, not /you/.
    >


    Good dog *pat*.

    Now point out where above he says where his number come from?

    He made them up. Pure and simple.

    --
    "The even stupider thing about it is, these morons really believe that
    threatening people will fire and brimstone will "convert" them."
    -- Andrew Halliwell in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  12. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    Richard Rasker espoused:
    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Richard Rasker writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:

    >
    >>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you made the
    >>>> numbers up.
    >>>
    >>> I didn't "make up numbers". What we have, is a ranking and the total
    >>> number of models on offer. What I looked for, was a function best
    >>> describing typical sales percentages as a function of this ranking,

    >>
    >> You're full of **** Richard and you know it. You made the numbers up. If
    >> you have two products for sale side by side - one is a cut price rolex
    >> watch for example (RRP 500000, actual price 5) and a plate of **** next
    >> to it for 100 then I can assure you that the sales numbers can not be
    >> predicted using your declining function.

    >
    > You appear to have no grasp of the mathematical concept of "statistics"
    > whatsoever, other than perhaps the old adage "lies, damn lies and
    > statistics". Fine with me, but please stay out of discussions involving
    > this subject. Or do you routinely call scientists, weather forecasters and
    > anyone else who use statistics "liars"?
    >


    The shilcosystem will still be arguing that Windows is the best-selling
    thingy on the planet, even as the receivers have arrived at the campus
    in Redmond, and wagonloads of equipment is being taken to the
    auctioneers in order to raise some cash to pay off the shareholders.

    I pointed out the Amazon sales stats a few months back, when I noticed
    almost the same thing, that the top selling machines were all Apple &
    Linux machines, Windows wasn't even in the top 10. Oddly, it was matt
    (mattthefella?) who had a huge go at /me/ about it. Some people just
    don't like numbers...

    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


  13. Re: Amazon's best selling laptops run ...

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Mark Kent on Tuesday 30 September 2008 14:12 : \____

    > Richard Rasker espoused:
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Richard Rasker writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> You still haven't explained your spreadsheet. I will bet you made the
    >>>>> numbers up.
    >>>>
    >>>> I didn't "make up numbers". What we have, is a ranking and the total
    >>>> number of models on offer. What I looked for, was a function best
    >>>> describing typical sales percentages as a function of this ranking,
    >>>
    >>> You're full of **** Richard and you know it. You made the numbers up. If
    >>> you have two products for sale side by side - one is a cut price rolex
    >>> watch for example (RRP 500000, actual price 5) and a plate of **** next
    >>> to it for 100 then I can assure you that the sales numbers can not be
    >>> predicted using your declining function.

    >>
    >> You appear to have no grasp of the mathematical concept of "statistics"
    >> whatsoever, other than perhaps the old adage "lies, damn lies and
    >> statistics". Fine with me, but please stay out of discussions involving
    >> this subject. Or do you routinely call scientists, weather forecasters and
    >> anyone else who use statistics "liars"?
    >>

    >
    > The shilcosystem will still be arguing that Windows is the best-selling
    > thingy on the planet, even as the receivers have arrived at the campus
    > in Redmond, and wagonloads of equipment is being taken to the
    > auctioneers in order to raise some cash to pay off the shareholders.
    >
    > I pointed out the Amazon sales stats a few months back, when I noticed
    > almost the same thing, that the top selling machines were all Apple &
    > Linux machines, Windows wasn't even in the top 10. Oddly, it was matt
    > (mattthefella?) who had a huge go at /me/ about it. Some people just
    > don't like numbers...


    The trade journals still behave as though "computer" = "desktop with an O/S
    bundled", thus persistently arguing that "Microsoft's operating system runs on
    more than 90% of the world's computers" (which is not true _even just for
    desktops_).

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Holey (sic) Cow! Longhorn is full of holes...
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    run-level 5 Sep 17 16:20 last=S
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
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