Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power? - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power? - Linux ; "Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message news:2684431a-65cb-4d27-81de-8c08b0708ce7@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > I am not sure which one would be the best term to define this latest > Microsoft move: chutzpah, audacity, moxie, gall, balls or cojones? Why? Microsoft is not now nor ...

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Thread: Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

  1. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?


    "Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    news:2684431a-65cb-4d27-81de-8c08b0708ce7@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > I am not sure which one would be the best term to define this latest
    > Microsoft move: chutzpah, audacity, moxie, gall, balls or cojones?


    Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every
    point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS. Microsoft just
    made their easier to use with more capabilities early in the game and that's
    why they're still so popular. A true monopoly is a SINGLE company that has
    the control of an entire market. Gas, electric and water companies are
    examples of monopolies. This is because you can't have five different set of
    pipes or electric wires in a city and in your house. "Mono" mens one.

    John



  2. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    In article ,
    "John Slade" wrote:

    > "Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    > news:2684431a-65cb-4d27-81de-8c08b0708ce7@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > > I am not sure which one would be the best term to define this latest
    > > Microsoft move: chutzpah, audacity, moxie, gall, balls or cojones?

    >
    > Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every
    > point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS. Microsoft just
    > made their easier to use with more capabilities early in the game and that's
    > why they're still so popular. A true monopoly is a SINGLE company that has
    > the control of an entire market. Gas, electric and water companies are
    > examples of monopolies. This is because you can't have five different set of
    > pipes or electric wires in a city and in your house. "Mono" mens one.
    >
    > John


    You really don't understand what a monopoly is there John. Better go
    study. A company can be a monopoly and that's ok and Microsoft is, by
    any measure, a monopoly. The problem is it abuses it's market position
    gained by being that monopoly and that was the problem the DOJ found.

    If you think Microsoft isn't a monopoly, you have deeper issues than
    anyone suspected.
    --
    Mike

  3. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    John Slade wrote:

    >Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly.


    Idiot.


  4. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    In article ,
    "John Slade" wrote:

    > "Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    > news:2684431a-65cb-4d27-81de-8c08b0708ce7@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > > I am not sure which one would be the best term to define this latest
    > > Microsoft move: chutzpah, audacity, moxie, gall, balls or cojones?

    >
    > Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every
    > point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS. Microsoft just
    > made their easier to use with more capabilities early in the game and that's
    > why they're still so popular. A true monopoly is a SINGLE company that has
    > the control of an entire market. Gas, electric and water companies are
    > examples of monopolies. This is because you can't have five different set of
    > pipes or electric wires in a city and in your house. "Mono" mens one.
    >
    > John


    Thanks for the grade school economics lesson. MS used illegal business
    practices to garner their share of the OS market. It has nothing to do
    with features or capabilities of their OS (what version of Windows are
    you referring here anyway?). One example was how they used their lock on
    the PC market to control what vendors can ship with their hardware.
    Microsoft have basically bought and rebranded 95% of their products. Do
    a Google search on DOJ vs. Microsoft.

    Fortunately for the entire industry, the tide has been turning over the
    last few years as people see alternatives in Apple's OSX, Linux etc...

  5. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    On 2008-09-10, John Slade wrote:
    >
    > "Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    > news:2684431a-65cb-4d27-81de-8c08b0708ce7@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
    >>
    >> I am not sure which one would be the best term to define this latest
    >> Microsoft move: chutzpah, audacity, moxie, gall, balls or cojones?

    >
    > Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every


    The courts of multiple nations and the US DOJ have a different opnion.

    > point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS. Microsoft just
    > made their easier to use with more capabilities early in the game and that's
    > why they're still so popular. A true monopoly is a SINGLE company that has


    Yeah... that would be the OS vendor that was the LAST to deliver a
    useful GUI or full support for the modern features of the 80386.

    > the control of an entire market. Gas, electric and water companies are
    > examples of monopolies. This is because you can't have five different set of
    > pipes or electric wires in a city and in your house. "Mono" mens one.


    ...resorting to the "igornant layman" defintions eh?

    --
    My macintosh runs Ubuntu. |||
    / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  6. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 20:50:58 -0400, John Slade wrote:
    > Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly


    You are a moron.


  7. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopolyand abuse of market power?

    On Sep 9, 7:50*pm, "John Slade" wrote:
    > "Ramon F Herrera" wrote in messagenews:2684431a-65cb-4d27-81de-8c08b0708ce7@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
    >
    >
    >
    > > I am not sure which one would be the best term to define this latest
    > > Microsoft move: chutzpah, audacity, moxie, gall, balls or cojones?

    >
    > * * * Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. Atevery
    > point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS.


    If I had a dollar for every idiot that makes a statement like the
    above, I could retire to an island in the Pacific.

    There is the mathematical, strict language used by scientists,
    computer programmers and lawyers. Then there is the day-to-day
    language used by common folks (and Usenet NG).

    Let me give an example. One person arrives to a restaurant and is told
    by the hostess: "you may go ahead and sit on that table over there".

    Question: when the waitress arrives, what is the very first thing she
    asks the client?

    Answer: She tells him: "would you please get off the table and sit on
    a chair?"

    In the Microsoft case, when we talk about monopoly, we are referring
    to "monopoly power". Please don't try to convert some continuum into a
    discrete, boolean quantum, would you?

    There is a legal definition of monopolistic power, there is also one
    (which may or may not be the same) used by economists.

    Microsoft is a convicted monopolist.

    -RFH

    Statement: "Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country"
    Idiot Person: "That's not true, because I know a Christian guy over
    there"


  8. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    JEDIDIAH wrote:
    > On 2008-09-10, John Slade wrote:


    >> Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At
    >> every

    >
    > The courts of multiple nations and the US DOJ have a different
    > opnion.


    Then you won't mind showing us the court rulings that MS is a monopoly, or
    has a monopoly, or ever had a monopoly, in any product line.






    >> the control of an entire market. Gas, electric and water companies
    >> are examples of monopolies. This is because you can't have five
    >> different set of pipes or electric wires in a city and in your
    >> house. "Mono" mens one.

    >
    > ...resorting to the "igornant layman" defintions eh?


    Better than resorting to fiction.





  9. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    DFS wrote:

    > Then you won't mind showing us the court rulings that MS is a monopoly,
    > or has a monopoly, or ever had a monopoly, in any product line.
    >


    "Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
    stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
    systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
    actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java, Netscape,
    Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April 3, 2000, he
    issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that Microsoft had
    committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and tying in violation
    of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his remedy was that Microsoft
    must be broken into two separate units, one to produce the operating
    system, and one to produce other software components."

    You stupid ****ing idiot.
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    Owner/Proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC

    Be different: conform.


  10. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    On 2008-09-10, Tattoo Vampire claimed:
    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> Then you won't mind showing us the court rulings that MS is a monopoly,
    >> or has a monopoly, or ever had a monopoly, in any product line.
    >>

    >
    > "Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
    > stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
    > systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
    > actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java, Netscape,
    > Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April 3, 2000, he
    > issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that Microsoft had
    > committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and tying in violation
    > of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his remedy was that Microsoft
    > must be broken into two separate units, one to produce the operating
    > system, and one to produce other software components."
    >
    > You stupid ****ing idiot.


    Since Doofie is going to want a citation, not just a quote:

    http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

    So that he doesn't try to weasel around and claim it's limited to a
    single anti-monopoly judge:

    http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007...-monopoly.html

    Here's some others they had troubles with:

    http://www.crn.com/software/26100117

    http://news.cnet.com/South-Korea-fin...3-5985332.html

    --
    Chimpanzees can point and click on a Windows UI. That's mostly who's
    doing it.

    ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
    http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

  11. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    * Tattoo Vampire peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> Then you won't mind showing us the court rulings that MS is a monopoly,
    >> or has a monopoly, or ever had a monopoly, in any product line.

    >
    > "Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
    > stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
    > systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
    > actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java, Netscape,
    > Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April 3, 2000, he
    > issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that Microsoft had
    > committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and tying in violation
    > of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his remedy was that Microsoft
    > must be broken into two separate units, one to produce the operating
    > system, and one to produce other software components."
    >
    > You stupid ****ing idiot.


    He's like the proverbial grey goose -- wakes up in a new world every
    day.

    He'll be posting the same dumb challenge again in a few weeks.

    Microsoft Smear® -- Throw enough **** that some of it sticks.

    --
    I used to have a drinking problem. Now I love the stuff.

  12. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopolyand abuse of market power?

    On Sep 10, 12:09*pm, Tattoo Vampire wrote:
    > DFS wrote:
    > > Then you won't mind showing us the court rulings that MS is a monopoly,
    > > or has a monopoly, or ever had a monopoly, in any product line.

    >
    > "Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
    > stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
    > systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
    > actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java, Netscape,
    > Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April 3, 2000, he
    > issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that Microsoft had
    > committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and tying in violation
    > of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his remedy was that Microsoft
    > must be broken into two separate units, one to produce the operating
    > system, and one to produce other software components."
    >
    > You stupid ****ing idiot.
    > --
    > Regards,
    > [tv]
    >
    > Owner/Proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC
    >
    > Be different: conform.


    I BET you will get no response from DuFus!

  13. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    Mike wrote:

    > "John Slade" wrote:
    >>
    >> Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every
    >> point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS.

    >
    >You really don't understand what a monopoly is there John. Better go
    >study. A company can be a monopoly and that's ok and Microsoft is, by
    >any measure, a monopoly. The problem is it abuses it's market position
    >gained by being that monopoly and that was the problem the DOJ found.
    >
    >If you think Microsoft isn't a monopoly, you have deeper issues than
    >anyone suspected.


    Save your energy. This "John Slade" fsckwit has had all this
    explained to him before. Google his name and "Microsoft monopoly" -
    every few months the simpleton spouts the same "Mono means one"
    idiocy.


  14. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    chrisv wrote:

    > Mike wrote:
    >
    >> "John Slade" wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every
    >>> point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS.

    >>
    >>You really don't understand what a monopoly is there John. Better go
    >>study. A company can be a monopoly and that's ok and Microsoft is, by
    >>any measure, a monopoly. The problem is it abuses it's market position
    >>gained by being that monopoly and that was the problem the DOJ found.
    >>
    >>If you think Microsoft isn't a monopoly, you have deeper issues than
    >>anyone suspected.

    >
    > Save your energy. This "John Slade" fsckwit has had all this
    > explained to him before. Google his name and "Microsoft monopoly" -
    > every few months the simpleton spouts the same "Mono means one"
    > idiocy.


    Well, Hadron Quark claims the same idiocy regarding MS

    If it is google, though...
    --
    Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end


  15. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    PhillE wrote:
    > On Sep 10, 12:09 pm, Tattoo Vampire wrote:
    >> DFS wrote:
    >>> Then you won't mind showing us the court rulings that MS is a
    >>> monopoly, or has a monopoly, or ever had a monopoly, in any product
    >>> line.

    >>
    >> "Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
    >> stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
    >> systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
    >> actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java,
    >> Netscape, Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on
    >> April 3, 2000, he issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law
    >> were that Microsoft had committed monopolization, attempted
    >> monopolization, and tying in violation of Sections 1 and 2 of the
    >> Sherman Act, and his remedy was that Microsoft must be broken into
    >> two separate units, one to produce the operating system, and one to
    >> produce other software components."
    >>
    >> You stupid ****ing idiot.


    Another cola child flings the f-word.



    > I BET you will get no response from DuFus!



    So far I see jeering responses from four cola lusers: TV, Gidget, you and
    Linonut.

    But apparently not a single one of you lazy idiots read the actual rulings
    referred to TV and Gidget, because nowhere in them is there evidence of a
    court ruling that MS is a monopoly organization.

    Findings of fact: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

    Conclusions of law: http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-conclusions.html

    http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007...-monopoly.html

    http://www.crn.com/software/26100117

    http://news.cnet.com/South-Korea-fin...3-5985332.html


    Keep trying, lamers.




  16. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:07:45 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > chrisv wrote:
    >
    >> Mike wrote:
    >>
    >>> "John Slade" wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Why? Microsoft is not now nor has it ever been a monopoly. At every
    >>>> point in Microsoft's existence there was an alternative OS.
    >>>
    >>>You really don't understand what a monopoly is there John. Better go
    >>>study. A company can be a monopoly and that's ok and Microsoft is, by
    >>>any measure, a monopoly. The problem is it abuses it's market position
    >>>gained by being that monopoly and that was the problem the DOJ found.
    >>>
    >>>If you think Microsoft isn't a monopoly, you have deeper issues than
    >>>anyone suspected.

    >>
    >> Save your energy. This "John Slade" fsckwit has had all this
    >> explained to him before. Google his name and "Microsoft monopoly" -
    >> every few months the simpleton spouts the same "Mono means one"
    >> idiocy.

    >
    > Well, Hadron Quark claims the same idiocy regarding MS


    Yeah, but Hardon Quack is a known M$ fanboi & zealot. So naturally he will
    defend M$ at every opportunity.

    > If it is google, though...



  17. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    William Poaster wrote:

    >Yeah, but Hardon Quack is a known M$ fanboi & zealot. So naturally he will
    >defend M$ at every opportunity.


    Quack just again denied that M$ abused their market power. Amazing,
    really.


  18. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopolyand abuse of market power?

    DFS wrote:

    > So far I see jeering responses from four cola lusers: TV, Gidget, you and
    > Linonut.
    >
    > But apparently not a single one of you lazy idiots read the actual rulings
    > referred to TV and Gidget, because nowhere in them is there evidence of a
    > court ruling that MS is a monopoly organization.
    >
    > Findings of fact: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
    > Conclusions of law: http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-conclusions.html
    > http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007...-monopoly.html
    > http://www.crn.com/software/26100117
    > http://news.cnet.com/South-Korea-fin...3-5985332.html
    >
    > Keep trying, lamers.


    DOJ concluded Microsoft is a monopoly:

    http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/Lit11-1.pdf

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

    Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
    STATE OF NEW YORK, et al., Plaintiffs v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
    Defendant.

    MEMORANDUM OPINION

    It bears repeating that the monopoly in this case was not
    found to have been illegally acquired, see United States v.
    Microsoft, 56 F.3d 1448, 1452 (D.C. Cir. 1995),24 but only to
    have been illegally maintained.
    COLLEEN KOLLAR-KOTELLY
    United States District Judge

    --
    HPT
    Quando omni flunkus moritati
    (If all else fails, play dead)
    - "Red" Green

  19. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopoly and abuse of market power?

    * High Plains Thumper peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> So far I see jeering responses from four cola lusers: TV, Gidget, you and
    >> Linonut.
    >>
    >> But apparently not a single one of you lazy idiots read the actual rulings
    >> referred to TV and Gidget, because nowhere in them is there evidence of a
    >> court ruling that MS is a monopoly organization.
    >>
    >> Findings of fact: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
    >> Conclusions of law: http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-conclusions.html
    >> http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007...-monopoly.html
    >> http://www.crn.com/software/26100117
    >> http://news.cnet.com/South-Korea-fin...3-5985332.html

    >
    > DOJ concluded Microsoft is a monopoly:
    >
    > http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/Lit11-1.pdf
    >
    > UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
    >
    > Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
    > STATE OF NEW YORK, et al., Plaintiffs v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
    > Defendant.
    >
    > MEMORANDUM OPINION
    >
    >
    It bears repeating that the monopoly in this case was not
    > found to have been illegally acquired, see United States v.
    > Microsoft, 56 F.3d 1448, 1452 (D.C. Cir. 1995),24 but only to
    > have been illegally maintained.


    Don't forget you're talking to DFS. The boy is as dumb as a stump, and
    more stubborn than a mule.

    --
    enhance, v.:
    To tamper with an image, usually to its detriment.

  20. Re: Wait till you hear this: Guess who is complaining about monopolyand abuse of market power?

    Linonut wrote:
    > High Plains Thumper fired off:
    >> DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> But apparently not a single one of you lazy idiots read
    >>> the actual rulings referred to TV and Gidget, because
    >>> nowhere in them is there evidence of a court ruling that
    >>> MS is a monopoly organization.
    >>>
    >>> Findings of fact:
    >>> http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
    >>> Conclusions of law:
    >>> http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-conclusions.html
    >>> http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007...-monopoly.html
    >>> http://www.crn.com/software/26100117
    >>> http://news.cnet.com/South-Korea-fin...3-5985332.html

    >>
    >> DOJ concluded Microsoft is a monopoly:
    >>
    >> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/Lit11-1.pdf
    >>
    >> UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
    >>
    >> Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK) STATE OF NEW YORK, et al.,
    >> Plaintiffs v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Defendant.
    >>
    >> MEMORANDUM OPINION
    >>
    >>
    It bears repeating that the monopoly in this case
    >> was not found to have been illegally acquired, see United
    >> States v. Microsoft, 56 F.3d 1448, 1452 (D.C. Cir. 1995),24
    >> but only to have been illegally maintained.

    >
    > Don't forget you're talking to DFS. The boy is as dumb as a
    > stump, and more stubborn than a mule.


    Stubborn, yes; dumb, no. Let's see if he slinks away from this
    one. :-)

    --
    HPT

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