Linux: freezes when email is downloaded - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux: freezes when email is downloaded - Linux ; Snit wrote: > "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post > nqadncLd0skZJyrVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@posted.plus net on 8/29/08 2:00 AM: > >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote: >>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:47:45 +0100, Phil Da Lick! wrote: >>> >>>> Unlike your corporate masters, use ...

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Thread: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

  1. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Snit wrote:
    > "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    > nqadncLd0skZJyrVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:00 AM:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:47:45 +0100, Phil Da Lick! wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Unlike your corporate masters, use of OSS or linux does not commit you
    >>>> or the next ten generations of your family to servitude. You can do
    >>>> whatever you like with or without it. Its called freedom dummy.
    >>> It's only freedom as you call it if your time is free.
    >>> Mine is not.
    >>> Most people don't have the time to waste on Linux which is one reason why
    >>> it's desktop market share is dismal even after 15 years of being free.

    >> Its called freedom because thats what it is: freedom to choose. Use or
    >> don't use, regardless of anything else you may choose to use as well.

    >
    > Well, same goes for any OS or program...
    >
    >> And the reason for its market share is not what you state. Its a
    >> combination of business practice by M$ leading to lack of profile in the
    >> casual user community.

    >
    > What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny the
    > external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    > weaknesses to overcome.
    >


    So does windows. And MacOs for that matter. OS's (and most computer
    programs for that matter) get better slowly, over time. Linux is
    certainly a damn sight better now than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Where
    will it be in another 10 years? And meanwhile, windows is so broken that
    MS will either have to rewrite it again from scratch (which they seem to
    be doing every 2 or 3 major generations) or ditch it completely. I think
    they'll have to ditch eventually and bring out something possibly built
    around the .net framework. Of course, to do that, they need 90% of 3rd
    party stuff being developed on .net. Too many 3rd parties are still
    using MFC/WIN32. I think it would help everyone if MS would lead by
    example and get a .net version of office out, but they seem reluctant to
    do so for some reason.

  2. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:28:00 +0100, Phil Da Lick! wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> It's only funny when you can look at the Linux loons wasting their time
    >>> with a dead OS.
    >>> Hysterical in fact.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Who are you to tell someone how to spend their time? If someone wants to
    >> spend their free time developing for linux that's their choice; not yours.

    >
    > I'm not telling people to do anything.
    > Talk to Schestowitz's SPAm machine about that.
    >
    >> And linux is not a dead os. Every day it gets slightly better and more
    >> capable. Its not going anywhere soon, there are too many people "wasting
    >> their time".

    >
    > 1 percent in 15 years?
    > Linux is on life support if you ask me.
    >
    >


    that statistic is meaningless as you well know. and nobody did ask you.
    IIRC this is a linux advocacy group.

  3. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    76qdnWZGkeP6XirVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:37 AM:

    > Snit wrote:
    >> "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    >> nqadncLd0skZJyrVnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:00 AM:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:47:45 +0100, Phil Da Lick! wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Unlike your corporate masters, use of OSS or linux does not commit you
    >>>>> or the next ten generations of your family to servitude. You can do
    >>>>> whatever you like with or without it. Its called freedom dummy.
    >>>> It's only freedom as you call it if your time is free.
    >>>> Mine is not.
    >>>> Most people don't have the time to waste on Linux which is one reason why
    >>>> it's desktop market share is dismal even after 15 years of being free.
    >>> Its called freedom because thats what it is: freedom to choose. Use or
    >>> don't use, regardless of anything else you may choose to use as well.

    >>
    >> Well, same goes for any OS or program...
    >>
    >>> And the reason for its market share is not what you state. Its a
    >>> combination of business practice by M$ leading to lack of profile in the
    >>> casual user community.

    >>
    >> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny the
    >> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >> weaknesses to overcome.

    >
    > So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.


    No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    different UIs. There is no "gestalt".

    > OS's (and most computer programs for that matter) get better slowly, over
    > time. Linux is certainly a damn sight better now than it was 5 or 10 years
    > ago.


    No doubt... again.

    > Where will it be in another 10 years?


    Nobody knows the details, but it will offer (or be able to offer) a *far*
    more consistent and unified "whole" than it does now. Distros will
    generally feel like their programs were actually made for the environemnt
    they are running on.

    > And meanwhile, windows is so broken that MS will either have to rewrite it
    > again from scratch (which they seem to be doing every 2 or 3 major
    > generations) or ditch it completely. I think they'll have to ditch eventually
    > and bring out something possibly built around the .net framework. Of course,
    > to do that, they need 90% of 3rd party stuff being developed on .net. Too many
    > 3rd parties are still using MFC/WIN32. I think it would help everyone if MS
    > would lead by example and get a .net version of office out, but they seem
    > reluctant to do so for some reason.


    Move current Windows to a "Classic" environment and move to something new...
    of course making sure you keep the "Classic" environment longer than Apple
    did - but following their lead on easing the transition.


    --
    Projects should really look to the whole Linux desktop and see how they can
    appeal to both sides.
    - Mark Shuttleworth (founded Canonical Ltd. / Ubuntu Linux)


  4. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Snit wrote:
    >>> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny the
    >>> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >>> weaknesses to overcome.

    >> So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.

    >
    > No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    > certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    > different UIs. There is no "gestalt".


    Why should there be? The big sell of linux is the choice. If you dont
    like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your idea of how
    is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it.

  5. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    Q6qdnXiDgZVTWyrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:52 AM:

    > Snit wrote:
    >>>> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny the
    >>>> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >>>> weaknesses to overcome.
    >>> So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.

    >>
    >> No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    >> certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    >> different UIs. There is no "gestalt".

    >
    > Why should there be?


    Usability issues.

    > The big sell of linux is the choice.


    So why limit the choice to be different takes on a mish-mash? Why not build
    higher level choices of having different unified wholes? *That* would be
    truly revolutionary and not just disorganized.

    And, thankfully, the OSS community is slowly heading that way. I, for one,
    am very happy to see it.

    > If you dont like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your idea
    > of how is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it.


    I do think there is something wrong with a system that is fractured and thus
    reduces productivity and increases the chance of error... and increases
    training time, pushes away users, and ensures that system-wide benefits will
    be kept to a minimum. That is where desktop Linux currently is... assuming
    you use more than a very small number of programs this matters.

    --
    The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of
    limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and
    great nations. - David Friedman


  6. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Snit wrote:
    > "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    > Q6qdnXiDgZVTWyrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:52 AM:
    >
    >> Snit wrote:
    >>>>> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny the
    >>>>> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >>>>> weaknesses to overcome.
    >>>> So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.
    >>> No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    >>> certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    >>> different UIs. There is no "gestalt".

    >> Why should there be?

    >
    > Usability issues.
    >
    >> The big sell of linux is the choice.

    >
    > So why limit the choice to be different takes on a mish-mash? Why not build
    > higher level choices of having different unified wholes? *That* would be
    > truly revolutionary and not just disorganized.


    KDE and GNOME are both examples of this, both of which have been
    improving for years now.


    >> If you dont like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your idea
    >> of how is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it.

    >
    > I do think there is something wrong with a system that is fractured and thus
    > reduces productivity and increases the chance of error... and increases
    > training time, pushes away users, and ensures that system-wide benefits will
    > be kept to a minimum. That is where desktop Linux currently is... assuming
    > you use more than a very small number of programs this matters.


    Thats your personal opinion. Nothing more.

  7. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    M-qdnVQjk4ncVCrVnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 3:02 AM:

    > Snit wrote:
    >> "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    >> Q6qdnXiDgZVTWyrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:52 AM:
    >>
    >>> Snit wrote:
    >>>>>> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >>>>>> weaknesses to overcome.
    >>>>> So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.
    >>>> No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    >>>> certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    >>>> different UIs. There is no "gestalt".
    >>> Why should there be?

    >>
    >> Usability issues.
    >>
    >>> The big sell of linux is the choice.

    >>
    >> So why limit the choice to be different takes on a mish-mash? Why not build
    >> higher level choices of having different unified wholes? *That* would be
    >> truly revolutionary and not just disorganized.

    >
    > KDE and GNOME are both examples of this, both of which have been
    > improving for years now.


    Absolutely. Right now, though, no distro is wholly one of the other - at
    least not that I know of. Do you know of any?

    And at some point the two "camps" will work together to make it so programs
    can be written to be "native" to both.

    >>> If you dont like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your idea
    >>> of how is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it.

    >>
    >> I do think there is something wrong with a system that is fractured and thus
    >> reduces productivity and increases the chance of error... and increases
    >> training time, pushes away users, and ensures that system-wide benefits will
    >> be kept to a minimum. That is where desktop Linux currently is... assuming
    >> you use more than a very small number of programs this matters.

    >
    > Thats your personal opinion. Nothing more.


    It is based on research and agrees with expert opinion. To claim that is
    just an opinion is like saying that the idea that cigarettes are bad for you
    is just an opinion, except with cigarettes there are no fully controlled
    human studies to show support... where for UI issues there are.

    --
    The answer to the water shortage is to dilute it.


  8. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Snit wrote:
    > "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    > M-qdnVQjk4ncVCrVnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 3:02 AM:
    >
    >> Snit wrote:
    >>> "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    >>> Q6qdnXiDgZVTWyrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 2:52 AM:
    >>>
    >>>> Snit wrote:
    >>>>>>> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >>>>>>> weaknesses to overcome.
    >>>>>> So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.
    >>>>> No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    >>>>> certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    >>>>> different UIs. There is no "gestalt".
    >>>> Why should there be?
    >>> Usability issues.
    >>>
    >>>> The big sell of linux is the choice.
    >>> So why limit the choice to be different takes on a mish-mash? Why not build
    >>> higher level choices of having different unified wholes? *That* would be
    >>> truly revolutionary and not just disorganized.

    >> KDE and GNOME are both examples of this, both of which have been
    >> improving for years now.

    >
    > Absolutely. Right now, though, no distro is wholly one of the other - at
    > least not that I know of. Do you know of any?


    Not off the top of my head, but why should they be? If you dont want one
    or the other, don't install it. Seems straightforward to me.


    > And at some point the two "camps" will work together to make it so programs
    > can be written to be "native" to both.


    I doubt that very much.


    >>>> If you dont like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your idea
    >>>> of how is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it.
    >>> I do think there is something wrong with a system that is fractured and thus
    >>> reduces productivity and increases the chance of error... and increases
    >>> training time, pushes away users, and ensures that system-wide benefits will
    >>> be kept to a minimum. That is where desktop Linux currently is... assuming
    >>> you use more than a very small number of programs this matters.

    >> Thats your personal opinion. Nothing more.

    >
    > It is based on research and agrees with expert opinion. To claim that is
    > just an opinion is like saying that the idea that cigarettes are bad for you
    > is just an opinion, except with cigarettes there are no fully controlled
    > human studies to show support... where for UI issues there are.


    Yawn. FFS snit anybody could claim their opinion agrees with "expert
    opinion".

  9. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:52:30 +0100, Phil Da Lick! wrote:

    > Snit wrote:
    >>>> What about intrinsic weaknesses of desktop Linux itself? I do not deny the
    >>>> external "forces", but recognize desktop Linux has some pretty big
    >>>> weaknesses to overcome.
    >>> So does windows. And MacOs for that matter.

    >>
    >> No doubt... but from the user perspective Linux, more than Windows and
    >> certainly more than OS X, seems like a mish-mash of different ideas and
    >> different UIs. There is no "gestalt".

    >
    > Why should there be? The big sell of linux is the choice. If you dont
    > like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your idea of how
    > is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it.


    The big sell of Linux is the price.
    Nothing more and nothing less

    Don't kid yourself, only the loonies on some religious cause care about
    anything other than price.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  10. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    "Phil Da Lick!" stated in post
    k9OdnVbacceGcyrVnZ2dnUVZ8jydnZ2d@posted.plusnet on 8/29/08 5:40 AM:

    ....
    >>>>> The big sell of linux is the choice.
    >>>> So why limit the choice to be different takes on a mish-mash? Why not
    >>>> build
    >>>> higher level choices of having different unified wholes? *That* would be
    >>>> truly revolutionary and not just disorganized.
    >>> KDE and GNOME are both examples of this, both of which have been
    >>> improving for years now.

    >>
    >> Absolutely. Right now, though, no distro is wholly one of the other - at
    >> least not that I know of. Do you know of any?

    >
    > Not off the top of my head, but why should they be? If you dont want one
    > or the other, don't install it. Seems straightforward to me.


    So if you want a consistent user experience - one that research shows is
    *clearly* better - you have to build it yourself. Heck, just become a UI
    expert before using Linux and then do what no distro manager has been able
    to do... then Linux will offer you a "higher level" choice.

    This is not a situation that is acceptable. Not at all!

    >> And at some point the two "camps" will work together to make it so programs
    >> can be written to be "native" to both.

    >
    > I doubt that very much.


    If Shuttleworth gets his way it sure will be:

    Shuttleworth:
    Rather than saying: "GNOME wins, KDE looses" I'd like us to
    say: "How can we get this communities to sit down and talk to
    each other"? ... I'm very interested in finding out, how to
    get those two communities working closer together, how to get
    more collaboration, more sharing. Both at the level of
    technology but also at the level of best practices /
    processes.
    ...
    This also applies to other software projects, if you name
    your project g-something or k-something your are articulating
    a very specific user experience. Projects should really look
    to the whole Linux desktop and see how they can appeal to
    both sides.
    ...
    The fact that OS X is growing, tells us that Windows is
    weakening. The fact that OS X is growing and Linux isn't,
    tells you that OS X is offering things that Linux is not.
    One of those is the pace of change, the level of innovation.
    You really have to give credit to Apple for driving
    innovation.
    ...
    And at the moment we [the free software folks] don't offer
    a particular easy place to go and express your technology.
    ...
    I think we don't yet deliver a good enough user experience. I
    think we deliver a user experience for people that have a
    reason to want to be on the Linux platform, either because of
    price or because of freedom. If that was your primary reason,
    Linux is the right answer.

    But if you are somebody who is not too concerned about price,
    who is not too concerned about freedom, I don't think we can
    say the Linux desktop offers the very best experience. And
    that's something we have to change, that's something I'm
    committed to work on, focusing increasing amounts of
    resources of Canonical on figuring out on how we actually
    move the desktop experience forward to compete with Mac OS X.
    ...
    Second thing is, we just can't do this only on GNOME or just
    on KDE, we need to figure out on how to move the whole Linux
    desktop platform forward. I suspect if we hire a bunch of
    upstream developers they will be across both GNOME and KDE.

    Keep in mind that interview was published well after I made my views known.
    People who understand user-issues are coming to the same conclusion.


    >>>>> If you dont like that then dont use it. Just because it doesnt fit your
    >>>>> idea of how is should be that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with it. I
    >>>>> do think there is something wrong with a system that is fractured and thus
    >>>>> reduces productivity and increases the chance of error... and increases
    >>>>> training time, pushes away users, and ensures that system-wide benefits
    >>>>> will be kept to a minimum. That is where desktop Linux currently is...
    >>>>> assuming you use more than a very small number of programs this matters.
    >>>
    >>> Thats your personal opinion. Nothing more.

    >>
    >> It is based on research and agrees with expert opinion. To claim that is
    >> just an opinion is like saying that the idea that cigarettes are bad for you
    >> is just an opinion, except with cigarettes there are no fully controlled
    >> human studies to show support... where for UI issues there are.

    >
    > Yawn. FFS snit anybody could claim their opinion agrees with "expert
    > opinion".


    I would *love* it if you could find experts who disagreed with what I have
    been saying and studies that showed otherwise... even major OSS projects
    where the developers have made statements that are contrary to my views. I
    would love to find someone who actually understands UI issues put forth a
    *reason* for disagreement. So far the best anyone in COLA has been able to
    do is say they disagree based on not seeing the problem or not thinking it
    effects them (most people make that claim - when tested, though, their
    beliefs do not turn out to be accurate).


    --
    God made me an atheist - who are you to question his authority?




  11. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    * Moshe Goldfarb. peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > The big sell of Linux is the price.
    > Nothing more and nothing less


    Only on the surface. And even there, there is a lot to like about
    Linux. Why can't Microsoft implement virtual desktops, virtual
    consoles, tabbed window managers, 3-D desktops...?

    > Don't kid yourself, only the loonies on some religious cause care about
    > anything other than price.


    Not quite true. Not having to have source code placed in escrow, where
    the access to it would be years too late, is another biggie for some
    bizzes.

    --
    QOTD:
    "If he learns from his mistakes, pretty soon he'll know everything."

  12. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    > mentally-ill troll wrote:
    >>
    >> The big sell of Linux is the price.


    No one gives a **** what a pathological liar like you claims is the
    "big sell" of Linux. When pre-installed, the "price" of Windows
    isn't all that much, and Linux has many other advantages, as you know.

    This is *not* about "price".

    >> Nothing more and nothing less


    You are lying. Nothing more and nothing less.


  13. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    On 2008-08-29, Linonut wrote:
    > * Moshe Goldfarb. peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> The big sell of Linux is the price.
    >> Nothing more and nothing less


    He says that like it's a bad thing but efficiency is the whole
    point of any capitalist endeavor. Over time, things should become
    cheaper. The notion of paying a premium for one particular vendor's
    "better mouse trap" should give way to a free-for-all where a whole
    horde of greedy vendors help drive prices down.

    "Being merely cheaper" is what got PC's started to begin with.

    >
    > Only on the surface. And even there, there is a lot to like about
    > Linux. Why can't Microsoft implement virtual desktops, virtual
    > consoles, tabbed window managers, 3-D desktops...?
    >
    >> Don't kid yourself, only the loonies on some religious cause care about
    >> anything other than price.


    Yeah... because "quality" is just some "religious cause".

    >
    > Not quite true. Not having to have source code placed in escrow, where
    > the access to it would be years too late, is another biggie for some
    > bizzes.
    >



    --

    Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
    your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
    rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
    affairs, government and business.


    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  14. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:11:05 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * Moshe Goldfarb. peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> The big sell of Linux is the price.
    >> Nothing more and nothing less

    >
    > Only on the surface. And even there, there is a lot to like about
    > Linux. Why can't Microsoft implement virtual desktops, virtual
    > consoles, tabbed window managers, 3-D desktops...?


    Because add on programs exist that already do most of that.
    Aero is pretty kool as well, though pretty much eye candy IMHO.

    Those toys that Linux have do nothing but decrease stability. They do
    little for productivity increases, except virtual desktops maybe and like I
    said even my Nvidia card came with that application.

    >> Don't kid yourself, only the loonies on some religious cause care about
    >> anything other than price.

    >
    > Not quite true. Not having to have source code placed in escrow, where
    > the access to it would be years too late, is another biggie for some
    > bizzes.


    I'm in favor of open formats however for every company you find that wants
    access to the source code you will find many more who perceive this as a
    hacker's dream house.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  15. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb.

    wrote
    on Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:05:59 -0400
    :
    > On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:11:05 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * Moshe Goldfarb. peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> The big sell of Linux is the price.
    >>> Nothing more and nothing less

    >>
    >> Only on the surface. And even there, there is a lot to like about
    >> Linux. Why can't Microsoft implement virtual desktops,


    VNC.

    >> virtual consoles,


    The Microsoft alternative appears satisfactory; they can
    even go full screen. You'll have to clarify this.

    >> tabbed window managers,


    Aero has this capability, AFAIK.

    >> 3-D desktops...?


    No such thing. The Linux implementation is a pseudo-3D affair,
    much like many games. I'd have to look if Aero has a similar
    capability though it does have the "thumb-through" pages.

    >
    > Because add on programs exist that already do most of that.
    > Aero is pretty kool as well, though pretty much eye candy IMHO.


    As long as it sells.

    >
    > Those toys that Linux have do nothing but decrease stability. They do
    > little for productivity increases, except virtual desktops maybe and like I
    > said even my Nvidia card came with that application.


    Whereas the capabilities Microsoft includes in Aero are of course
    essential. Got it.

    >
    >>> Don't kid yourself, only the loonies on some religious cause care about
    >>> anything other than price.

    >>
    >> Not quite true. Not having to have source code placed in escrow, where
    >> the access to it would be years too late, is another biggie for some
    >> bizzes.

    >
    > I'm in favor of open formats


    Are they profitable? That is indeed the question.

    > however for every company you find that wants
    > access to the source code you will find many more who perceive this as a
    > hacker's dream house.


    I'll refer you to Bruce Schneier, and in any event the
    more hackers, the merrier, in some respects; the true
    bullet-proof system resists all attacks.

    Of course, Vista has the UAC and a huge army of vendors.

    Microsoft will succeed. Unfortunately.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #12398234:
    void f(char *p) {char *q = strdup(p); strcpy(p,q);}
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  16. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Phil Da Lick! wrote:

    > Unlike your corporate masters, use of OSS or linux does not commit you
    > or the next ten generations of your family to servitude.


    You sure do sound like a cola idiot serving his Linux master.

    Using Windows is anything but servitude: I enjoy the hell out of using great
    Windows programs like MS Access and Excel and Outlook and SQL Server to make
    a living. I earn financial rewards and professional recognition for the
    innovative information systems and data analysis I deliver with their tools.



    > You can do whatever you like with or without it. Its called freedom dummy.


    It's called deluding yourself that you're enjoying the silly crapware system
    just because you can switch out a shell and spin a desktop cube and freeload
    a thousand bad programs.





  17. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:40:55 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Phil Da Lick! wrote:
    >
    >> Unlike your corporate masters, use of OSS or linux does not commit you
    >> or the next ten generations of your family to servitude.

    >
    > You sure do sound like a cola idiot serving his Linux master.


    Evidently Roy Schestowitz has given him his membership to the club.

    > Using Windows is anything but servitude: I enjoy the hell out of using great
    > Windows programs like MS Access and Excel and Outlook and SQL Server to make
    > a living. I earn financial rewards and professional recognition for the
    > innovative information systems and data analysis I deliver with their tools.


    Good job!

    >
    >
    >> You can do whatever you like with or without it. Its called freedom dummy.

    >
    > It's called deluding yourself that you're enjoying the silly crapware system
    > just because you can switch out a shell and spin a desktop cube and freeload
    > a thousand bad programs.



    Like you say, Linux is free because it has to be.
    Nobody in a right state of mind would pay for it unless they are looking
    for a support contract.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  18. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    * DFS peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > You can replace SQL Server with Oracle or DB2, but there is no realistic
    > replacement for Access or Excel or Outlook. You're simply ignorant if you
    > think otherwise.


    Nah, you're just full of crap.

    No news there.

    --
    Perl has a long tradition of working around compilers.
    -- Larry Wall in <199708252256.PAA00105@wall.org>

  19. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    Linonut wrote:
    > * DFS peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> You can replace SQL Server with Oracle or DB2, but there is no
    >> realistic replacement for Access or Excel or Outlook. You're simply
    >> ignorant if you think otherwise.

    >
    > Nah, you're just full of crap.
    >
    > No news there.


    You're ignorant, too. All you Linux morons who think OO has a chance in
    hell of replacing MS Office are ignorant. It doesn't have the features, the
    interoperability, the documentation, the programmability, the speed, etc.

    Want proof of your ignorance? Find me a single medium to large company that
    has standardized on OpenOffice. We'll be waiting.




  20. Re: Linux: freezes when email is downloaded

    * DFS peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Linonut wrote:
    >> * DFS peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> You can replace SQL Server with Oracle or DB2, but there is no
    >>> realistic replacement for Access or Excel or Outlook. You're simply
    >>> ignorant if you think otherwise.

    >>
    >> Nah, you're just full of crap.
    >>
    >> No news there.

    >
    > You're ignorant, too. All you Linux morons who think OO has a chance in
    > hell of replacing MS Office are ignorant.


    All you Windows morons have to postulate the all-or-nothing replacement
    of Microsoft Office.

    We don't care about that. As long as enough people are using OO to keep
    it a growing concern, that's all that matters. We want a choice.

    We don't want to have to use Microsoft products just to edit their
    ****ing formats.

    > It doesn't have the features, the interoperability, the documentation,
    > the programmability, the speed, etc.


    Bull****. It may lack in some areas, but it is pretty competitive, even
    if you don't like to admit it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._office_suites

    Hmmm, supports more operating systems, more document formats, more
    lenient licensing terms, source code, and nearly as many features.

    Sounds like a winner to me.

    > Want proof of your ignorance? Find me a single medium to large company that
    > has standardized on OpenOffice. We'll be waiting.


    More goal-post shifting from a Microsoft troll. Who'd a thunk it?

    --
    When God saw how faulty was man He tried again and made woman. As to
    why he then stopped there are two opinions. One of them is woman's.
    -- DeGourmont

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