Firefox headed to the 20% mark - Linux

This is a discussion on Firefox headed to the 20% mark - Linux ; On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:55:02 -0700, Rekruled wrote: > I trusted the person who first claimed the buttons were different. Was > he lying? > You're the OP, moron. -Thufir...

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Thread: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

  1. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:55:02 -0700, Rekruled wrote:


    > I trusted the person who first claimed the buttons were different. Was
    > he lying?
    >


    You're the OP, moron.


    -Thufir

  2. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    "RonB" wrote in message
    news:iztmk.13097$KZ.2001@newsfe03.iad
    > Rekruled wrote:
    >
    >> I trusted the person who first claimed the buttons were different.
    >> Was he lying?

    >
    > I have no idea. But don't you think a little research on the subject
    > might have been wise if you're going to monotone the same mantra all
    > day?


    Covered elsewhere.



  3. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    "RonB" wrote in message
    news:KBtmk.13099$KZ.10680@newsfe03.iad
    > RonB wrote:
    >
    >> Rekruled wrote:
    >>
    >>> I trusted the person who first claimed the buttons were different.
    >>> Was he lying?

    >>
    >> I have no idea. But don't you think a little research on the subject
    >> might have been wise if you're going to monotone the same mantra all
    >> day?

    >
    > Let me guess. Was it Snit who made the original claim? You should
    > know, he's an incurable crank who's one desire in life is that Linux
    > should look and feel *exactly* like OS X.


    I do not beleive it was Snit. The comments were:

    >> Then explain to me why some apps put "OK" in the left and "Cancel" in
    >> the right, but some others put the 2 buttons in the reversed order?
    >> And why can't the indicated hotkeys in GNOME's epiphany just work
    >> when it asks me to save a username/password?

    >
    > Ummm... to actually get you to _think_ about your choice, instead of
    > clicking and drooling your way through life?


    I am not going to dig back to see who said what.



  4. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    "thufir" wrote in message
    news:6lumk.164691$gc5.3794@pd7urf2no
    > On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:48:01 -0700, Rekruled wrote:
    >
    >> This
    >> room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards
    >> common sense.

    >
    >
    > No Linux user I know would ever recommend COLA for anything but
    > trolling.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -Thufir


    Ther guy who suggested it warned me of what to expect. I told him I was
    interested in Linux and he gave me a Living CD to try in my computer. I
    played with it for a while and found it had a lot on one CD but was not
    really enough to pull me from Windows.



  5. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    "thufir" wrote in message
    news:Elumk.164692$gc5.108271@pd7urf2no
    > On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:55:02 -0700, Rekruled wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I trusted the person who first claimed the buttons were different.
    >> Was he lying?
    >>

    >
    > You're the OP, moron.
    >
    >
    > -Thufir


    I am in reference to the people who said the following:

    >> Then explain to me why some apps put "OK" in the left and "Cancel" in
    >> the right, but some others put the 2 buttons in the reversed order?
    >> And why can't the indicated hotkeys in GNOME's epiphany just work
    >> when it asks me to save a username/password?

    >
    > Ummm... to actually get you to _think_ about your choice, instead of
    > clicking and drooling your way through life?




  6. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    Rekruled wrote:

    > Ther guy who suggested it warned me of what to expect. *I told him I was
    > interested in Linux and he gave me a Living CD to try in my computer. *I
    > played with it for a while and found it had a lot on one CD but was not
    > really enough to pull me from Windows.


    The way I look at it, if you like Windows, use it. I used to use Windows --
    even though I never liked monopolies. Finally the daily upkeep (constant
    upgrades, malware upgrades and scanning, anti-virus upgrades and scanning
    and reboots every time I installed a proram) wore me out. I figured it was
    worth learning Linux. I'm still nowhere near a Linux expert but I haven't
    regretted going to Linux for a day.

    Honest debate is fine with me, but the WinTrolls (not to be confused with
    Windows users) wouldn't know honesty if it bit 'em on the ass.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  7. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    "RonB" stated in post
    KBtmk.13099$KZ.10680@newsfe03.iad on 8/6/08 8:02 PM:

    > RonB wrote:
    >
    >> Rekruled wrote:
    >>
    >>> I trusted the person who first claimed the buttons were different. *Was
    >>> he lying?

    >>
    >> I have no idea. But don't you think a little research on the subject might
    >> have been wise if you're going to monotone the same mantra all day?

    >
    > Let me guess. Was it Snit who made the original claim? You should know, he's
    > an incurable crank who's one desire in life is that Linux should look and
    > feel *exactly* like OS X.


    Nope... but I will be the one to prove it:

    There are, clearly, inconsistencies in the UI of the desktop Linux distros.
    Here are images from a popular version, PCLOS:

    Poorly done menus


    Poorly done dialogs:


    Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:


    On that one note the Save and Cancel buttons are in no consistent place...
    and are not even consistently named (some are OK and Cancel). I agree you
    should have checked first to verify you were told correctly, but clearly the
    Save As dialogs in PCLOS are very inconsistent.

    Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:


    Ubuntu is another popular distro. It is done better in terms of UI issues
    than PCLOS, but it still have issues.



    Then again, Windows is not exactly consistent here, either. Here is a
    comparison between Windows and OS X (both a bit dated):



    I will grant that with Windows the Save buttons are on top in all examples
    and they are always labeled "Save" and "Cancel"... and this puts Windows
    ahead of Linux *in that area*. Looking at the Print dialogs, though, there
    is a mix of Print/Close, Print/Cancel, and OK/Cancel - but at least the
    affirmative button is always to the right.



    --
    Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
    walnut paneling and an all leather interior.




  8. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:11:32 -0700, Rekruled wrote:

    >>> This
    >>> room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards common
    >>> sense.

    >>
    >>
    >> No Linux user I know would ever recommend COLA for anything but
    >> trolling.

    [...]
    > Ther guy who suggested it warned me of what to expect.


    COLA has little to with Linux; any Linux user who read the NG will see
    that in about 2 seconds. I simply don't believe you that this group was
    recommended to find out anything about Linux -- it's strictly a troll
    trap. Oh, wait, *now* it makes sense...

    > I told him I was
    > interested in Linux and he gave me a Living CD to try in my computer. I
    > played with it for a while and found it had a lot on one CD but was not
    > really enough to pull me from Windows.
    >



    Let me guess, his name is Michael? Or do you mean yourself?


    -Thufir

  9. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:48:01 -0700, Rekruled wrote:

    > "RonB" wrote in message
    > news:latmk.13091$KZ.2627@newsfe03.iad
    >> Rekruled wrote:
    >>
    >>> It is automated. Happens when I sleep. I put more time into tending to
    >>> my car.

    >>
    >> I don't have to worry about it at all because I don't use Windows.

    >
    > Then we each share a worry free life in this area. This brings me
    > pleasure.
    >
    >> But, if you like Windows so much, why do you waste your time here?

    >
    > I am interested in learning about Linux and those who support Linux.
    > This room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards
    > common sense.


    This room? What room is that?

    > The rumors I heard were right; even with questions that
    > are easy to answer the discussion becomes not just a debate but a free
    > for all for toddlers. I asked a simple question. Why would you want
    > your OK and CANCEL buttons to swap positions but not your gas and brake.


    You have been repeatedly asked to provide examples of buttons that
    randomly changed, or software that is designed to distract the user. You
    have done neither. Reference your statement in message $1@registered.motzarella.org>


    > So far not only have few if any have been willing to take a stand and
    > say such design is clearly bad but I have been called names, accused of
    > being a forger, told that simply logic is not logical, and otherwise
    > treated to the biggest group of class clowns I have ever seen.
    >
    > If this is what I can expect of Linux users I am not interested though
    > the personality of those who use the reportedly haphazardly designed OS
    > entrigues me.


    First you need to realize that there are many Linux based systems. They
    share similarities in kernels, utilities and apps, but can there are also
    differences in kernels, utilities and apps. There are many things you can
    almost take for granted across systems/distros,but others you can't.

    Linux != (insert name of distro) != (insert name of windowing
    environment) != Linux.

    For example, Linux, Ubuntu, PCLOS, Red Hat, Mandriva, KDE, Gnome, Icewm,
    are not the same things.

    A Linux distribution may, or may not, have a default windowing
    environment. Apps from different environments may, or may not be
    installed in a default install. The distro's standard repositories may,
    or may not contain "non-Free" software.

    And there is no one big company controlling the operating system, as you
    do with Windows and OS X.. CentOS repackages RHEL, and it is not the same
    thing as Fedora. opensuse is NOT the same as Suse. Ubuntu can be
    considered, MOL, controlled by Canonical, but it is a repackage of
    Debian, and Ubuntu can be repackaged (actually there are several).

    The FOSS development system is quite different than the CSS system.

    Go get The Linux Bible and Running Linux. Those will start to explain the
    Linux/OSS ecosystem, and how Linux systems work.

    --
    Rick

  10. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    * Rekruled peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > "RonB" wrote in message
    > news:hwsmk.7022$3l5.2429@newsfe06.iad
    >> shmell_dakaka@hotmail.com wrote:
    >>
    >>> Firefox is great, and it runs on Windows. Freeware is actually
    >>> Linux's worst enemy: if it runs on Windows like the best freeware
    >>> out there, who needs Linux?

    >>
    >> Those of us who in interested in using our computers instead of
    >> constantly tending them. I'm not that big on malware and viruses --
    >> if you like them you'll love Windows.

    >
    > I do not like viruses and use Windows. Never had a single problem from a
    > virus. Why would I?


    Do you use anti-virus software? Which packages?

    --
    I once witnessed a long-winded, month-long flamewar over the use of
    mice vs. trackballs... It was very silly.
    -- Matt Welsh

  11. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 07:03:52 +0000, thufir wrote:

    > On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:11:32 -0700, Rekruled wrote:
    >
    >>>> This
    >>>> room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards common
    >>>> sense.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> No Linux user I know would ever recommend COLA for anything but
    >>> trolling.

    > [...]
    >> Ther guy who suggested it warned me of what to expect.

    >
    > COLA has little to with Linux; any Linux user who read the NG will see
    > that in about 2 seconds. I simply don't believe you that this group was
    > recommended to find out anything about Linux -- it's strictly a troll
    > trap. Oh, wait, *now* it makes sense...
    >
    >> I told him I was
    >> interested in Linux and he gave me a Living CD to try in my computer. I
    >> played with it for a while and found it had a lot on one CD but was not
    >> really enough to pull me from Windows.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Let me guess, his name is Michael?


    Aka Snit, The Prescott Computer Guy! ;-)

    > Or do you mean yourself?


    I'll vote for 'himself'.

    --
    Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
    for Vista, a junk bond?

  12. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    Rekruled wrote:

    >(snip)


    FOAD, troll, and make it quick.

    *plonk*


  13. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    >Quack snotted
    >>
    >> You must be stupider than High Plains Hypocrite.


    Do you ever make a post without leading it off with some slam like the
    above, you nasty, snotty, piece of ****?


  14. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On 2008-08-07, shmell_dakaka@hotmail.com wrote:
    > On Aug 5, 9:32*pm, OK wrote:
    >> Unlike Linux, Firefox grows quite steadily:
    >>
    >> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0
    >>
    >> However the rate will diminish as FF3 is rolled out: they stopped
    >> pre-fetching pages in version 3, the new web stats will be more
    >> faithful of actual usage, unlike the currently over-inflated FF2
    >> stats:
    >>
    >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Firefox+inflated
    >>
    >> Meanwhile, Internet Explorer still holds a commanding 73%...

    >
    > Firefox is great, and it runs on Windows. Freeware is actually Linux's
    > worst enemy: if it runs on Windows like the best freeware out there,
    > who needs Linux?


    If all the cool stuff runs on platforms other than Windows, then why buy it?

    Windows isn't free and Microsoft these days tries to interfere with your
    legal re-use of the product, nevermind piracy.

    My "media center" installs would be really annoying if I had to deal
    with the commercial software licensing mentality of Microsoft.

    >
    > Best regards



    --
    On the subject of kilobyte being "redefined" to mean 1000 bytes...

    When I was a wee lad, I was taught that SI units were |||
    meant to be computationally convenient rather than just / | \
    arbitrarily assigned.

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  15. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On 2008-08-07, RonB wrote:
    > Rekruled wrote:
    >
    >> Ther guy who suggested it warned me of what to expect. *I told him I was
    >> interested in Linux and he gave me a Living CD to try in my computer. *I
    >> played with it for a while and found it had a lot on one CD but was not
    >> really enough to pull me from Windows.

    >
    > The way I look at it, if you like Windows, use it. I used to use Windows --


    Use what you like. Use what suits you.

    Don't let the market trap you into something that doesn't really work
    for you. Lemmings have been doing this for over 20 years when better
    and cheaper alternatives have always been around.

    [deletia]

    This compatability FUD recently prevented a user that was have problems
    with Windows (and this malware that allegedly doesn't exist) from moving
    to Mac. Fear of the new and different paralyzed her. Petty bull****
    propaganda kept her from dumping a product that wasn't working for her
    for something that is designed with her in mind.

    --
    On the subject of kilobyte being "redefined" to mean 1000 bytes...

    When I was a wee lad, I was taught that SI units were |||
    meant to be computationally convenient rather than just / | \
    arbitrarily assigned.

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  16. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    chrisv writes:

    >>Quack snotted
    >>>
    >>> You must be stupider than High Plains Hypocrite.

    >
    > Do you ever make a post without leading it off with some slam like the
    > above, you nasty, snotty, piece of ****?
    >


    Rarely in COLA. For obvious reasons. Have you ever poasted without
    swearing?

  17. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    "Rick" wrote in message
    news:qd-dnQ_FkMhDAwfVnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@supernews.com
    > On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:48:01 -0700, Rekruled wrote:
    >
    >> "RonB" wrote in message
    >> news:latmk.13091$KZ.2627@newsfe03.iad
    >>> Rekruled wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> It is automated. Happens when I sleep. I put more time into
    >>>> tending to my car.
    >>>
    >>> I don't have to worry about it at all because I don't use Windows.

    >>
    >> Then we each share a worry free life in this area. This brings me
    >> pleasure.
    >>
    >>> But, if you like Windows so much, why do you waste your time here?

    >>
    >> I am interested in learning about Linux and those who support Linux.
    >> This room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards
    >> common sense.

    >
    > This room? What room is that?


    Are you getting this by email?

    >> The rumors I heard were right; even with questions that
    >> are easy to answer the discussion becomes not just a debate but a
    >> free for all for toddlers. I asked a simple question. Why would
    >> you want your OK and CANCEL buttons to swap positions but not your
    >> gas and brake.

    >
    > You have been repeatedly asked to provide examples of buttons that
    > randomly changed, or software that is designed to distract the user.
    > You have done neither. Reference your statement in message > $1@registered.motzarella.org>


    Someone else posted pictures. You say they are from the two distros, right?

    >> So far not only have few if any have been willing to take a stand
    >> and say such design is clearly bad but I have been called names,
    >> accused of being a forger, told that simply logic is not logical,
    >> and otherwise treated to the biggest group of class clowns I have
    >> ever seen.
    >>
    >> If this is what I can expect of Linux users I am not interested
    >> though the personality of those who use the reportedly haphazardly
    >> designed OS entrigues me.

    >
    > First you need to realize that there are many Linux based systems.
    > They share similarities in kernels, utilities and apps, but can there
    > are also differences in kernels, utilities and apps. There are many
    > things you can almost take for granted across systems/distros,but
    > others you can't.
    >
    > Linux != (insert name of distro) != (insert name of windowing
    > environment) != Linux.


    Linux is split between Ubuntu and PCLOS, right? And each has its own
    windows and dialogs. Is this right?

    > For example, Linux, Ubuntu, PCLOS, Red Hat, Mandriva, KDE, Gnome,
    > Icewm, are not the same things.


    So Ubuntu and PCLOS are just two of many distros? Is that the full list?

    > A Linux distribution may, or may not, have a default windowing
    > environment. Apps from different environments may, or may not be
    > installed in a default install. The distro's standard repositories
    > may, or may not contain "non-Free" software.
    >
    > And there is no one big company controlling the operating system, as
    > you do with Windows and OS X.. CentOS repackages RHEL, and it is not
    > the same thing as Fedora. opensuse is NOT the same as Suse. Ubuntu
    > can be considered, MOL, controlled by Canonical, but it is a
    > repackage of Debian, and Ubuntu can be repackaged (actually there are
    > several).


    You lost me.

    > The FOSS development system is quite different than the CSS system.


    Is FOSS the same as Linux? Or does FOSS make Linux and other things?

    > Go get The Linux Bible and Running Linux. Those will start to explain
    > the Linux/OSS ecosystem, and how Linux systems work.


    I just want to use one distro to get my work done. From what I understand
    the two to pick from for most people are PCLOS and Ubuntu. As long as I do
    not mix the two I should be OK and not have the mess Snit showed in his
    pictures. Is there a way to change the windowing environment if I do not
    like the way Ubuntu looks? With Windows I changed it from the "standard" XP
    look to the Classic windowing environment so it looks more like Windows 98
    which is where I started. Can I get Ubuntu to have a similar windowing
    environment to that?



  18. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    Rekruled wrote:

    > "Rick" wrote in message
    > news:qd-dnQ_FkMhDAwfVnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@supernews.com
    >> On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:48:01 -0700, Rekruled wrote:
    >>
    >>> "RonB" wrote in message
    >>> news:latmk.13091$KZ.2627@newsfe03.iad
    >>>> Rekruled wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> It is automated. Happens when I sleep. I put more time into
    >>>>> tending to my car.
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't have to worry about it at all because I don't use Windows.
    >>>
    >>> Then we each share a worry free life in this area. This brings me
    >>> pleasure.
    >>>
    >>>> But, if you like Windows so much, why do you waste your time here?
    >>>
    >>> I am interested in learning about Linux and those who support Linux.
    >>> This room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards
    >>> common sense.

    >>
    >> This room? What room is that?

    >
    > Are you getting this by email?


    What has getting anything via email or usenet to do with any "rooms",
    Snot/Snit/Rekruled/Michael Glasser?

    < Snot snip >
    --
    To start your shiny new Core II Quattro in Gameboy mode just enter
    C:\win


  19. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:27:50 -0700, Rekruled wrote:

    > "Rick" wrote in message
    > news:qd-dnQ_FkMhDAwfVnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@supernews.com
    >> On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:48:01 -0700, Rekruled wrote:
    >>
    >>> "RonB" wrote in message
    >>> news:latmk.13091$KZ.2627@newsfe03.iad
    >>>> Rekruled wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> It is automated. Happens when I sleep. I put more time into tending
    >>>>> to my car.
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't have to worry about it at all because I don't use Windows.
    >>>
    >>> Then we each share a worry free life in this area. This brings me
    >>> pleasure.
    >>>
    >>>> But, if you like Windows so much, why do you waste your time here?
    >>>
    >>> I am interested in learning about Linux and those who support Linux.
    >>> This room was suggested to me to see how Linux Advocates act towards
    >>> common sense.

    >>
    >> This room? What room is that?

    >
    > Are you getting this by email?


    Are you sending it by email? No? I didn't think so.

    >
    >>> The rumors I heard were right; even with questions that are easy to
    >>> answer the discussion becomes not just a debate but a free for all for
    >>> toddlers. I asked a simple question. Why would you want your OK and
    >>> CANCEL buttons to swap positions but not your gas and brake.

    >>
    >> You have been repeatedly asked to provide examples of buttons that
    >> randomly changed, or software that is designed to distract the user.
    >> You have done neither. Reference your statement in message >> $1@registered.motzarella.org>

    >
    > Someone else posted pictures. You say they are from the two distros,
    > right?


    Same distros, different windowing environments and widget sets.

    >
    >>> So far not only have few if any have been willing to take a stand
    >>> and say such design is clearly bad but I have been called names,
    >>> accused of being a forger, told that simply logic is not logical, and
    >>> otherwise treated to the biggest group of class clowns I have ever
    >>> seen.
    >>>
    >>> If this is what I can expect of Linux users I am not interested though
    >>> the personality of those who use the reportedly haphazardly designed
    >>> OS entrigues me.

    >>
    >> First you need to realize that there are many Linux based systems. They
    >> share similarities in kernels, utilities and apps, but can there are
    >> also differences in kernels, utilities and apps. There are many things
    >> you can almost take for granted across systems/distros,but others you
    >> can't.
    >>
    >> Linux != (insert name of distro) != (insert name of windowing
    >> environment) != Linux.

    >
    > Linux is split between Ubuntu and PCLOS, right?
    > And each has its own windows and dialogs. Is this right?


    No.

    >
    >> For example, Linux, Ubuntu, PCLOS, Red Hat, Mandriva, KDE, Gnome,
    >> Icewm, are not the same things.

    >
    > So Ubuntu and PCLOS are just two of many distros? Is that the full
    > list?


    No. go to http://distrowatch.com/ for a partial list of Linux based
    distributions.

    >
    >> A Linux distribution may, or may not, have a default windowing
    >> environment. Apps from different environments may, or may not be
    >> installed in a default install. The distro's standard repositories may,
    >> or may not contain "non-Free" software.
    >>
    >> And there is no one big company controlling the operating system, as
    >> you do with Windows and OS X.. CentOS repackages RHEL, and it is not
    >> the same thing as Fedora. opensuse is NOT the same as Suse. Ubuntu can
    >> be considered, MOL, controlled by Canonical, but it is a repackage of
    >> Debian, and Ubuntu can be repackaged (actually there are several).

    >
    > You lost me.
    >
    >> The FOSS development system is quite different than the CSS system.

    >
    > Is FOSS the same as Linux?


    FOSS is Free/Open Source Software.

    > Or does FOSS make Linux and other things?


    and
    for explanations of Free Software and
    Open Source software respectively.

    >
    >> Go get The Linux Bible and Running Linux. Those will start to explain
    >> the Linux/OSS ecosystem, and how Linux systems work.

    >
    > I just want to use one distro to get my work done.


    I would say PCLinuxOS. Other would indeed say Ubuntu, it gets a lot of
    press and is rapidly building installed base. other might say Suse, Open
    Suse, Red Hat, Mandriva....


    > From what I
    > understand the two to pick from for most people are PCLOS and Ubuntu.
    > As long as I do not mix the two I should be OK and not have the mess
    > Snit showed in his pictures.


    Michael's pictures showed a apps from different windowing environments
    (KDE, Gnome), widget sets (Qt, gtk) and some cross-platform apps
    (Firefox) that was using neither at the time.


    > Is there a way to change the windowing
    > environment if I do not like the way Ubuntu looks?


    Yes, there is. There are easily followed direectios in the PCLOS and
    Ubunt forums.

    > With Windows I
    > changed it from the "standard" XP look to the Classic windowing
    > environment so it looks more like Windows 98 which is where I started.
    > Can I get Ubuntu to have a similar windowing environment to that?


    Look like Windows 98? hmmmm...
    Some people say KDE looks very much like Windows. And there are themes
    that look like W98.

    --
    Rick

  20. Re: Firefox headed to the 20% mark

    On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:08:33 -0700, Snit wrote:

    > "Rick" stated in post
    > qd-dnSzFkMhK2gbVnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@supernews.com on 8/7/08 12:07 PM:
    >
    > ...
    >>> Linux is split between Ubuntu and PCLOS, right?
    >>> And each has its own windows and dialogs. Is this right?

    >>
    >> No.

    >
    > Rick is correct here: each comes with software designed for different
    > "windowing managers" and thus the user experience is inconsistent /
    > fractured.


    No, it isn't.

    > Rick's claim is that you as the user can do what the folks
    > who put the distros together cannot and come up with a set of programs
    > that do general desktop tasks that all work together. The folks who
    > make Ubuntu clearly are working toward this goal - and clearly have a
    > ways to go.


    It is clearly possible ot develop a Gnome or KDE based distro.

    >
    > What Rick will not even try to do is create a list of programs he thinks
    > would work to offer the user a non-fractured experience, even if you
    > limit the tasks to basic word processing, web surfing, non-techie image
    > manipulation, email and maybe a few other things the general user is
    > likely to do.


    I have told you to do that very thing. You refuse. I, OTOH, have a Ubuntu
    installation that, AFAICT, is Gnome based. I don't see any KDE in it.

    >
    > ...
    >>>> Go get The Linux Bible and Running Linux. Those will start to explain
    >>>> the Linux/OSS ecosystem, and how Linux systems work.
    >>>
    >>> I just want to use one distro to get my work done.

    >>
    >> I would say PCLinuxOS. Other would indeed say Ubuntu, it gets a lot of
    >> press and is rapidly building installed base. other might say Suse,
    >> Open Suse, Red Hat, Mandriva....

    >
    > And all of those offer the same type of fractured user experience I have
    > shown in my images (Ubuntu likely being the least fractured of the lot).
    > It is theoretically possible to do as Rick suggests and just use
    > programs that are designed to the same guidelines but so far there is no
    > evidence to support this.


    Just use KDE or Gnome. Problem solved.

    >
    > This does not mean Linux is not usable - to the contrary it is a
    > wonderful OS for the cost: free. But do not expect to get an experience
    > that is consistent and non-fractured. Then again, do not expect that on
    > any other OS, though Windows is better in that area than is Linux and OS
    > X is better still (though they each have their own downsides).
    >
    > I wrote about it quite extensively recently:
    >
    > <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.....advocacy/msg/

    ca60d46120f0b6c7>
    >
    >>> From what I understand the two to pick from for most people are PCLOS
    >>> and Ubuntu. As long as I do not mix the two I should be OK and not
    >>> have the mess Snit showed in his pictures.

    >>
    >> Michael's pictures showed a apps from different windowing environments
    >> (KDE, Gnome), widget sets (Qt, gtk) and some cross-platform apps
    >> (Firefox) that was using neither at the time.

    >
    > But all are from the distro mentioned;


    Irrelevant. You are mixing apps from different environments.

    > each of the distros is a bit of a
    > fractured mess at this time - at least when it comes to UI issues. The
    > user experience is just not consistent. That bothers some people more
    > than it bothers others - but research has made it clear it effects users
    > in detrimental ways. As Rick has said:
    >
    > Rick:
    > I never said a consistent interface wasn't important.
    >
    > Rick:
    > And yes, I do know that it is better for the user if the button are
    > all in the same places in comparable dialog boxes, and that common
    > menu items are the same.
    >
    > Rick:
    > Actually my view is not so different from usability experts. It does
    > enhance usability to have menus and controls in the same places
    > across applications. The more uniform or consistent that is, the
    > better for the user. I have said this many times before. I am not
    > coming around to your point of view.
    >
    > Rick:
    > I have repeatedly said I agree that that consistency across an
    > interface lowers errors and increases efficiency of use.
    >
    > Clearly there are significant problems with desktop Linux at this time!


    You haven't pointed out any significant problems with desktop Linux.

    >
    >>> Is there a way to change the windowing environment if I do not like
    >>> the way Ubuntu looks?

    >>
    >> Yes, there is. There are easily followed direectios in the PCLOS and
    >> Ubunt forums.
    >>
    >>> With Windows I
    >>> changed it from the "standard" XP look to the Classic windowing
    >>> environment so it looks more like Windows 98 which is where I started.
    >>> Can I get Ubuntu to have a similar windowing environment to that?

    >>
    >> Look like Windows 98? hmmmm...
    >> Some people say KDE looks very much like Windows. And there are themes
    >> that look like W98.

    >
    > But none of that work will make the distro lose the inconsistency...


    .... in your opinion.

    --
    Rick

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