GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks! - Linux

This is a discussion on GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks! - Linux ; In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Psyc Geek (TAB) wrote on Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:47:08 -0700 (PDT) : > On Aug 3, 8:40*pm, RonB wrote: >> Psyc Geek (TAB) wrote: >> > At the bottom of the article are the linux guys saying ...

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Thread: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

  1. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Psyc Geek (TAB)

    wrote
    on Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:47:08 -0700 (PDT)
    :
    > On Aug 3, 8:40*pm, RonB wrote:
    >> Psyc Geek (TAB) wrote:
    >> > At the bottom of the article are the linux guys saying that
    >> > PHOTOSHOP kicks GIMPS butt. *Biggest problem, OMG,
    >> > you got it: *The INTERFACE.

    >>
    >> Lot of people *love* Gimp. Me, I don't have a reason to use Gimp or
    >> Photoshop. And, this may come as a shock to you, Gimp is *not* part of the
    >> Linux OS.
    >>
    >> Get a clue.
    >>
    >> --
    >> RonB
    >> "There's a story there...somewhere"

    >
    > Please point out where I said GIMP is part of the Linux Kernel.
    > Thanks


    Linux is *only* the kernel, though GIMP is included in
    many distros as an optional offering.

    One of the problems (and the benefits) of a generic Linux
    distro is the fact that most of the stuff is third party,
    allowing for large chunks of functionality to be added
    without a large amount of work on the distro assembler's
    side.

    One of the drawbacks of course is that the distro assembler
    cannot customize the interface beyond the parameters set
    by, in this case, GIMP.

    As for the interface being terrible...I'd need
    qualification on that. It can be clunky in spots; the
    2.4 variant in particular has absolutely no help system
    on the edit page, just on the main control, for example.
    (This isn't a large issue for me personally.)

    After adding text one might have to merge down or flatten
    the layer or change layers in order to do other edits;
    otherwise the edits are constrained to the area of the
    text -- not unreasonable but might add an extra step.

    The Colors->Decompose menu is apparently where CMY or
    CMYK decomposition finally ended up. This generates a
    4-layer grayscale output edit panel, with cyan on top.
    I'm gratified that it's still there, but can't say it's
    that intuitive to me personally -- though it might make
    more sense to someone making print masters.

    Oddly, the layers dialog does not work on the constructed
    edit page, though the layers can be shuffled and
    recombined. I wouldn't mind options on showing them
    either in black and white (intensity) as it does now,
    or colorized, though the latter would be mostly for
    purposes of understanding, and not all that useful for
    printing masks.

    Not sure I can think of anything else at the moment, though
    there are a number of inherent limitations; a flood fill on
    text will not work very well after the layers are merged,
    for example, because of anti-aliasing.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  2. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:12:09 -0700, Snit wrote:

    >>> First: my error with which UI you prefer. Fair enough... though as is
    >>> your norm you respond to a mistake with no class.

    >>
    >>
    >> Oh..my..****ing..god. Can you be more of an ass?

    >
    > You snipped what I was in response to:



    I was responding to the "class" comment, jackass.


    -Thufir

  3. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    "thufir" stated in post
    eDIlk.160275$gc5.48155@pd7urf2no on 8/4/08 12:19 PM:

    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:12:09 -0700, Snit wrote:
    >
    >>>> First: my error with which UI you prefer. Fair enough... though as is
    >>>> your norm you respond to a mistake with no class.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Oh..my..****ing..god. Can you be more of an ass?

    >>
    >> You snipped what I was in response to:

    >
    >
    > I was responding to the "class" comment, jackass.


    Which one? You snipped it!




    --
    Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
    walnut paneling and an all leather interior.




  4. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    I hate to continue this discussion but take it from a graphics newbie, I
    find both Photoshop and Gimp interfaces not that great. Both could use
    improvements. There is some truth that Linux programmers don't seem to
    take usability criticism very well and just plain ignore it. However,
    considering how much Adobe and Microsoft spend on their UIs, you would
    think that they would be much better than they are. At least linux does
    have an excuse, it doesn't cost you anything; however, I would hate to
    think that the open source programmers are thinking along those
    particular lines--"hey quite complaining, you are getting it for free".

  5. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    LittleGorm, ye lice-infested devil, thoe are not worth another word,
    else I'd call you knave, ye instructed:

    >I hate to continue this discussion but take it from a graphics newbie, I
    > find both Photoshop and Gimp interfaces not that great.


    The GIMP UI is ****, and Photoshop is a direct lift of GIMP, and I wouldn't
    be surprised if the lifting included massive chunks of source code.

    So, it is hardly surprising that Photoshop and GIMP are both ****; if you
    copy a pile of **** you get another pile ****.

    > Both could use
    > improvements. There is some truth that Linux programmers don't seem to
    > take usability criticism very well and just plain ignore it. However,
    > considering how much Adobe and Microsoft spend on their UIs, you would
    > think that they would be much better than they are. At least linux does
    > have an excuse, it doesn't cost you anything; however, I would hate to
    > think that the open source programmers are thinking along those
    > particular lines--"hey quite complaining, you are getting it for free".
    >


    --
    Hammer of Thor: February 2007. Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook,
    Line & Sinker: September 2005, April 2006, January 2007.
    Official Member: Cabal Obsidian Order COOSN-124-07-06660
    Official Overseer of Kooks & Trolls in 24hoursupport.helpdesk

  6. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:47:12 -0700, Snit wrote:

    > "Moshe Goldfarb." stated in post
    > yobrygr649cl.1g0v363o62222.dlg@40tude.net on 8/4/08 8:16 AM:
    >
    >> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 09:31:24 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:25:00 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>

    >>
    >>>> What they should have done was approach a college that specializes in
    >>>> visual arts etc and whose students most likely use PhotoShop and let
    >>>> them try it and see what they think.
    >>>>
    >>>> Of course they might actually learn some truth there and we all know
    >>>> that in the Linux community truth and facts are dirty words.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Translation: OSS has to work exactly like Windows and Windows apps or it
    >>> is crap.

    >>
    >> Wrong...
    >> They can use the standard in the industry, which is Photoshop, to guage
    >> Gimp against for the purpose of improving Gimp.

    >
    > Rick often does this - just fabricates positions and attributes them to
    > others. He is not able to actually refute what other people say but he has
    > a burning desire to argue with them... and then when he gets over his head
    > (which he does so often) he resorts to his mantras.
    >
    > He recently gave his word he would end his circus... but I have seen no
    > evidence he is really willing, or perhaps able, to.


    What amazes me about this group in general is how little real world
    experience they have.
    When the American car manufacturers want to improve mechanical quality they
    rip apart a BMW and learn from it.
    When they want to improve their assembly lines they look at the Asian
    companies, like Toyota.
    For logistics you look at FedEx or one of the large xcountry trucking
    companies like J.B Hunt etc.

    This is the way business works.

    You look at the standard in the industry and learn from it.
    In this case PhotoShop.

    It doesn't mean you copy it.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    "Moshe Goldfarb." stated in post
    fa1dmyrj9iyw$.jan6ocxq8as6$.dlg@40tude.net on 8/4/08 5:57 PM:

    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:47:12 -0700, Snit wrote:
    >
    >> "Moshe Goldfarb." stated in post
    >> yobrygr649cl.1g0v363o62222.dlg@40tude.net on 8/4/08 8:16 AM:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 09:31:24 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:25:00 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>>> What they should have done was approach a college that specializes in
    >>>>> visual arts etc and whose students most likely use PhotoShop and let
    >>>>> them try it and see what they think.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Of course they might actually learn some truth there and we all know
    >>>>> that in the Linux community truth and facts are dirty words.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Translation: OSS has to work exactly like Windows and Windows apps or it
    >>>> is crap.
    >>>
    >>> Wrong...
    >>> They can use the standard in the industry, which is Photoshop, to guage
    >>> Gimp against for the purpose of improving Gimp.

    >>
    >> Rick often does this - just fabricates positions and attributes them to
    >> others. He is not able to actually refute what other people say but he has
    >> a burning desire to argue with them... and then when he gets over his head
    >> (which he does so often) he resorts to his mantras.
    >>
    >> He recently gave his word he would end his circus... but I have seen no
    >> evidence he is really willing, or perhaps able, to.

    >
    > What amazes me about this group in general is how little real world
    > experience they have.


    I know little of their real world experience - and do not really care to
    know - but it is clear that many have little. When I talk about my
    experiences at Intuit and other businesses and at different schools of
    various levels look to see who lashes out and insists it is not possible for
    such experience to exist or whatever their spin is (it is possible to exist
    but not for someone on Usenet they know so little about... that is not
    rational). Those are the people who - clearly - are insecure in their own
    knowledge and in their own experience.

    > When the American car manufacturers want to improve mechanical quality they
    > rip apart a BMW and learn from it.
    > When they want to improve their assembly lines they look at the Asian
    > companies, like Toyota.
    > For logistics you look at FedEx or one of the large xcountry trucking
    > companies like J.B Hunt etc.
    >
    > This is the way business works.


    Very much true.

    > You look at the standard in the industry and learn from it.
    > In this case PhotoShop.
    >
    > It doesn't mean you copy it.


    Also true... though the GimpShop folks admit they are doing just that in
    many ways. Or trying, anyway.


    --
    "If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson




  8. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:34:33 -0700, Snit wrote:

    >>>>> First: my error with which UI you prefer. Fair enough... though as
    >>>>> is your norm you respond to a mistake with no class.

    [...]
    >> I was responding to the "class" comment, jackass.

    >
    > Which one? You snipped it!



    That one, asshole.


    -Thufir

  9. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    "thufir" stated in post
    S5Plk.57939$nD.20989@pd7urf1no on 8/4/08 7:41 PM:

    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:34:33 -0700, Snit wrote:
    >
    >>>>>> First: my error with which UI you prefer. Fair enough... though as
    >>>>>> is your norm you respond to a mistake with no class.

    > [...]
    >>> I was responding to the "class" comment, jackass.

    >>
    >> Which one? You snipped it!

    >
    >
    > That one, asshole.


    Stop snipping the answers to your questions.


    --
    Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
    walnut paneling and an all leather interior.




  10. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    "LittleGorm" wrote in message
    news:_d6dnT1-U96eFArVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com...
    >I hate to continue this discussion but take it from a graphics newbie, I
    > find both Photoshop and Gimp interfaces not that great. Both could use
    > improvements. There is some truth that Linux programmers don't seem to
    > take usability criticism very well and just plain ignore it. However,
    > considering how much Adobe and Microsoft spend on their UIs, you would
    > think that they would be much better than they are. At least linux does
    > have an excuse, it doesn't cost you anything; however, I would hate to
    > think that the open source programmers are thinking along those
    > particular lines--"hey quite complaining, you are getting it for free".


    Radically changing the Photoshop interface (Office 2007 style) is not going
    to go down well, with it being so widely used professionally. Still, it
    does evolve, as shown in Photoshop 7 and Photoshop CS3 in particular. It
    looks like CS4 is going to bring further changes, with tabbed documents,
    like Fireworks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-twq85H0CU

    ss.



  11. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    LittleGorm wrote in news:_d6dnT1-
    U96eFArVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com:

    > I hate to continue this discussion but take it from a graphics newbie, I
    > find both Photoshop and Gimp interfaces not that great. Both could use
    > improvements. There is some truth that Linux programmers don't seem to
    > take usability criticism very well and just plain ignore it. However,
    > considering how much Adobe and Microsoft spend on their UIs, you would
    > think that they would be much better than they are. At least linux does
    > have an excuse, it doesn't cost you anything; however, I would hate to
    > think that the open source programmers are thinking along those
    > particular lines--"hey quite complaining, you are getting it for free".


    For what it's worth, there is/was a GIMP spinoff that was done strictly to
    make the UI to look more like the Photoshop UI.....


    www.gimpshop.com

    (Never tried it/don't know how current it is.)

  12. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    "Moshe Goldfarb." stated in post
    1htlv8gqda0ek$.j1j71jwo5q2t$.dlg@40tude.net on 8/3/08 7:17 PM:

    ....
    >>> Of course not...
    >>> if it compiles it gets released.
    >>>
    >>> As for the UI the Gimp people were flooded with requests to change the UI
    >>> from the multiple floating Windows to something else.
    >>>
    >>> They ignored the requests.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I would like to know if there is any real effort to better its UI... an
    >> effort that includes real usability testing, surveys, etc.

    >
    > You're kidding right?
    > Linux programs rarely if ever are subjected to any kind of scientific
    > testing like that.
    > They have their fellow geeks test it if even that.


    I admit I do not know how they are tested, but I will say many have such a
    feel. There are exceptions (looking at OSS in general): Firefox - excellent
    understanding of the need to both be consistent with the rest of the OS
    *and* do its own branding ... and they do it well. Gnome, to me, seems like
    they put much more effort into such things as does KDE (possibly excluding
    KDE 4 - I have not used it enough to say). Even OpenOffice is getting
    better, though their philosophy is to just largely copy MS Office... though
    they do some things differently and MS has even copied them in a couple
    areas I believe. Other than that... well... I am sure I am leaving out a
    number of real simple little programs where UI issues are easier, but what
    major projects have a professional feel?

    > Back in the 80's I attended a PCExpo at the Javitts Center in NYC and all
    > the big players were there.
    > I got invited to a Microsoft session where they were doing UI testing for
    > what would become Windows NT.
    > They had a room set up with systems and video cameras and they gave each of
    > us a piece of paper with instructions.
    > Everyone had a different task to do.
    > Mine was to take a file on the drive and copy it to a folder with a very
    > long, highly obtuse name.
    > Then I was to erase the file.
    > Recover the file.
    > Rename the file.
    > I think that is all, my mind is foggy....


    Gee, you do not recall all the details from years ago. How horrid!
    >
    > Bottom line, they recorded keystrokes and video of what I did.
    > I got a free Microsoft Mouse and a Tee Shirt for my efforts.


    I used to be a part of similar testing for Intuit - mostly with internal
    programs but a *little* with Quicken for Windows. The amount of work and
    time it takes to do something like that correctly is amazing. And not all
    "pro" work is done well... we had an outside group come in to do similar
    work for a call-tracking database... they were completely useless (the same
    group had done work for a county database and had *completely* screwed it
    up... just baffling bad).

    > Linux?
    > Heck, if the program works they unload it out upon the masses and then when
    > the masses complain they tell you to go fsck yourself because you are not a
    > programmer and thus don't know anything.


    There are "shining stars" in the Linux world... I think Mark Shuttleworth
    and the Ubuntu team are doing what they can to make things better. But
    clearly many - most even - do not understand usability issues.



    --
    BU__SH__




  13. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    Snit wrote:

    > I admit I do not know how they are tested, but I will say many have such a
    > feel.


    It seems many of the programmers build their programs to suit their tastes
    and don't think about the public at large. That's to be expected in the
    world of free software. It's not like they have a real incentive to make it
    palatable to the masses. It's getting better, though.

    At one time I saw a Gimp rebuild that had a UI similar to Photoshop, but I
    can't remember exactly when or where.
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....PCMCIA = People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms

    Owner/Proprietor, Cheesus Crust Pizza Company
    Good to the last supper

  14. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:25:23 +0000, DanS wrote:

    > LittleGorm wrote in news:_d6dnT1-
    > U96eFArVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com:
    >
    >> I hate to continue this discussion but take it from a graphics newbie,
    >> I find both Photoshop and Gimp interfaces not that great. Both could
    >> use improvements. There is some truth that Linux programmers don't seem
    >> to take usability criticism very well and just plain ignore it.
    >> However, considering how much Adobe and Microsoft spend on their UIs,
    >> you would think that they would be much better than they are. At least
    >> linux does have an excuse, it doesn't cost you anything; however, I
    >> would hate to think that the open source programmers are thinking along
    >> those particular lines--"hey quite complaining, you are getting it for
    >> free".

    >
    > For what it's worth, there is/was a GIMP spinoff that was done strictly
    > to make the UI to look more like the Photoshop UI.....
    >
    >
    > www.gimpshop.com
    >
    > (Never tried it/don't know how current it is.)


    Get Paintshop Pro... Or even better Fireworks.

  15. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:05:50 GMT, Mr Spock wrote:
    >On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:25:23 +0000, DanS wrote:


    >> LittleGorm wrote in news:_d6dnT1-
    >> U96eFArVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com:
    >>
    >>> I hate to continue this discussion but take it from a graphics newbie,
    >>> I find both Photoshop and Gimp interfaces not that great. Both could
    >>> use improvements. There is some truth that Linux programmers don't seem
    >>> to take usability criticism very well and just plain ignore it.
    >>> However, considering how much Adobe and Microsoft spend on their UIs,
    >>> you would think that they would be much better than they are. At least
    >>> linux does have an excuse, it doesn't cost you anything; however, I
    >>> would hate to think that the open source programmers are thinking along
    >>> those particular lines--"hey quite complaining, you are getting it for
    >>> free".

    >>
    >> For what it's worth, there is/was a GIMP spinoff that was done strictly
    >> to make the UI to look more like the Photoshop UI.....
    >>
    >>
    >> www.gimpshop.com
    >>
    >> (Never tried it/don't know how current it is.)


    >Get Paintshop Pro... Or even better Fireworks.


    I don't find paintshop pro any easier to use. It is probably people who
    are expert at the application who have so much trouble with gimp.

  16. Re: GIMP is terrible! Says Linux Geeks!

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:29:14 -0500, AZ Nomad wrote:


    > I don't find paintshop pro any easier to use. It is probably people who
    > are expert at the application who have so much trouble with gimp.


    We are still waiting for those screen shots of your *millions* of temp
    files...
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

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