[News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure - Linux ; On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:02:30 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > More evidence of Microsoft "tying up" the Asus EeePC Asus is in business to sell products. Windows based products (PCs) ...

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Thread: [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

  1. Re: [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:02:30 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > More evidence of Microsoft "tying up" the Asus EeePC


    Asus is in business to sell products.
    Windows based products (PCs) sell.
    Linux based products (PC's) are pikers.....

    Yet another example of the lack of interest from the general public in
    Linux.

    You can try and explain it away using any conspiracy theory you like but
    the truth of the matter is consumer desktop Linux is ignored.

    Walmart found out.
    HP in Austrailia found out.
    Redhat found out.
    Suse found out.
    BestBuy found out.

    And now Asus has found out.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  2. [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    More evidence of Microsoft "tying up" the Asus EeePC

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Then, one of the makers of Netbooks will release a fantastic product using
    | the paid Ubuntu/Netbook Remix, which will make us all forget about the EeePC
    | — or, maybe we’ll remember it as one of the makers which used GNU/Linux in
    | order to launch a product, and then gave in to Microsoft’s pressure.
    |
    | The real question is: will the next maker manage to resist Microsoft’s
    | pressure? Or will everybody end up closely tied up with Microsoft?
    `----

    http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/...the_asus_eeepc

    Better wait for better (Linux-based) options:

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Dell E and E Slim revealed, taking on Eee and Air in one fell swoop
    `----

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/12/d...n-one-fell-sw/
    http://tinyurl.com/6sb9bj


    Recent:

    Microsoft worried over Linux ULPCs

    ,----[ Quote
    | An un-named Microsoft official quoted in the original article claims that
    | manufacturers currently offering Linux on their low-cost devices “have made
    | some good inroads with open-source, and Microsoft wants to put a stop to it.”
    `----

    http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/05...-linux-ulpcs/1


    Feeling the heat at Microsoft

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | If I ask you who is Microsoft's biggest competitor now, who would it be?
    |
    | Ballmer: Open...Linux. I don't want to say open source. Linux, certainly have
    | to go with that.
    `----

    http://www.news.com/Feeling-the-heat...tag=ne.fd.mnbc


    Otellini: 'MID revolution will be centred round Linux'

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Intel CEO says Microsoft's insistence on pushing Vista will hand market to
    | open source rival
    |
    | Intel's CEO has said that he sees the revolution that is about to happen
    | around mobile internet devices (MID) such as the Eee PC and other Atom-based
    | sub-notebooks will be "centred round Linux", in an interview with Associated
    | Press.
    `----

    http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/2993...ed-round-Linux


    Acer bets big on Linux

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Acer has stated that it will be pushing Linux aggressively on its laptops and
    | netbooks.
    `----

    http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22...hes-linux-hard


    Microsoft sees slide in profits

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7366106.stm
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  3. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:

    >
    > Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. When Microsoft first tried
    > to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    > of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.


    Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux version.

    You Linux loons need to exit the Holodeck once in a while and come out into
    the real world.....


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  4. Re: [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:38:16 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:02:30 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> More evidence of Microsoft "tying up" the Asus EeePC

    >
    > Asus is in business to sell products. Windows based products (PCs) sell.
    > Linux based products (PC's) are pikers.....
    >
    > Yet another example of the lack of interest from the general public in
    > Linux.
    >
    > You can try and explain it away using any conspiracy theory you like but
    > the truth of the matter is consumer desktop Linux is ignored.
    >
    > Walmart found out.


    .... and sells Linux based machines.

    > HP in Austrailia found out.


    Dunno.

    > Redhat found out.


    Never sold computers.

    > Suse found out.
    > BestBuy found out.


    When did Best Buy sell Linux based machines?

    >
    > And now Asus has found out.


    ....buy selling out of their product.


    --
    Rick

  5. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:24:31 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. When Microsoft first tried
    >> to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    >> of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.

    >
    > Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux
    > version.
    >
    > You Linux loons need to exit the Holodeck once in a while and come out
    > into the real world.....


    Well, that's a shame. I guess when I get around to buying my next laptop,
    I won't be getting it from Best Buy.

    --
    Rick

  6. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:47:54 -0500, Rick wrote:

    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:24:31 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. When Microsoft first tried
    >>> to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    >>> of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.

    >>
    >> Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux
    >> version.
    >>
    >> You Linux loons need to exit the Holodeck once in a while and come out
    >> into the real world.....

    >
    > Well, that's a shame. I guess when I get around to buying my next laptop,
    > I won't be getting it from Best Buy.


    Better to buy direct from Dell anyway, the prices, especially when on sale
    are usually better.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Jul 28, 10:24 pm, "Moshe Goldfarb."
    wrote:
    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >
    > > Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. When Microsoft first tried
    > > to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    > > of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.

    >
    > Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux version.


    I never saw the Linux version OR the XP version, but J&R in NYC still
    had the Linux version on display. When I observed the other shoppers,
    for about 45 minutes, the seemed to prefer the Linux version. Partly
    because it was new and different, partly because they actually did
    like OpenOffice and they found that they really could type on it.

    > You Linux loons need to exit the Holodeck once in a while and come out into
    > the real world.....


    You think Microsoft is the "real world"?

    No THAT'S AMUSING.
    ROFLMAO

    > Moshe Goldfarb



  8. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    Rex Ballard wrote:

    > On Jul 28, 10:24 pm, "Moshe Goldfarb."
    > wrote:
    >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>
    >> > Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. *When Microsoft first tried
    >> > to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    >> > of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.

    >>
    >> Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux version.

    >
    > I never saw the Linux version OR the XP version, but J&R in NYC still
    > had the Linux version on display. *When I observed the other shoppers,
    > for about 45 minutes, the seemed to prefer the Linux version. *Partly
    > because it was new and different, partly because they actually did
    > like OpenOffice and they found that they really could type on it.


    And we *know* that the only place anyone *ever* buys a computer is at Best
    Buy -- who probably dropped the Linux version because the margins weren't
    high enough or cutting into the sales of their higher priced laptops.

    Oh well, I guess folks will just have to buy their Linux versions of the Eee
    PC at New Egg, or Directron, or J&R, or CompUPlus.com, or Amazon, or...

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  9. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    Rex Ballard wrote:

    > On Jul 28, 10:24 pm, "Moshe Goldfarb."
    > wrote:
    >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>
    >> > Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. *When Microsoft first tried
    >> > to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    >> > of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.

    >>
    >> Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux version.

    >
    > I never saw the Linux version OR the XP version, but J&R in NYC still
    > had the Linux version on display. *When I observed the other shoppers,
    > for about 45 minutes, the seemed to prefer the Linux version. *Partly
    > because it was new and different, partly because they actually did
    > like OpenOffice and they found that they really could type on it.


    And we *know* that the only place anyone *ever* buys a computer is at Best
    Buy -- who probably dropped the Linux version because the margins weren't
    high enough or cutting into the sales of their higher priced laptops.

    Oh well, I guess folks will just have to buy their Linux versions of the Eee
    PC at New Egg, or Directron, or J&R, or CompUPlus.com, or Amazon, or...

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  10. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Jul 28, 10:47 pm, Rick wrote:
    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:24:31 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:


    > >> Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. When Microsoft first tried
    > >> to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    > >> of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.


    > > Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux
    > > version


    > > You Linux loons need to exit the Holodeck once in a while and come out
    > > into the real world.....


    > Well, that's a shame. I guess when I get around to buying my next laptop,
    > I won't be getting it from Best Buy.


    Does ANYBODY still buy computers at Best Buy? Seriously, if you're
    going to spend $700 to 1400 on a computer, why settle for the machine
    with the 5400 RPM SATA drive, the low res display, and Vista Home
    edition.

    If you're serious about buying a computer, you go to Best Buy to see
    what it looks like, then you go to the Dell, HP, Acer, or Lenovo Web
    Site and order what you REALLY want, including WSXGA display, 2 gig of
    RAM, and 7200 RPM SATA-II drive. And while you're at it, you can pick
    up the XP installation media and a full replacement plan.

    Is it any wonder that Best Buy shelves have lots of "holes" where
    unsold inventory is not being restocked (they lost their shirts trying
    to dump the initial shipment). These days, Best Buy computer
    departments are just plain depressing. The Vista shelves are locked
    and about 50% empty. Seems that a few people tried to upgrade their
    home machines, and hated Vista so much that Best Buy decided not to
    pay more interest on Junk inventory.

    Ironically, even with Geek Squad on-site, they don't seem to be able
    to install Linux for you. Seems there is something in their agreement
    with Microsoft that prevents this.

    At least J&R will sell you what you really want, and doesn't try to
    exclude legitimate competitors.

    > --
    > Rick



  11. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    RonB wrote:

    > Oh well, I guess folks will just have to buy their Linux versions of the
    > Eee PC at New Egg, or Directron, or J&R, or CompUPlus.com, or Amazon,
    > or...


    Sorry for the double posting. My newsgroup server told me that it didn't go
    through the first time -- obviously it did.

    Just checked Amazon.Com. They currently have 20 Asus Eee PC models and 7 XP
    models. Looks like the Linux versions are selling afterall.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  12. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:22:06 -0700, Rex Ballard wrote:

    (snip)
    >
    > At least J&R will sell you what you really want, and doesn't try to
    > exclude legitimate competitors.
    >


    Unfortunately, I'm not looking for another laptop right now, but I'll
    take a look at J&R when I am.
    --
    Rick

  13. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:22:06 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:

    >Does ANYBODY still buy computers at Best Buy? Seriously, if you're
    >going to spend $700 to 1400 on a computer, why settle for the machine
    >with the 5400 RPM SATA drive, the low res display, and Vista Home
    >edition.


    I won't even go into best buy any more. I tried to spend $2500 on a front
    loading washer/dryer pair but I couldn't get the assholes in the stereo
    department to turn down the thumping rap music for a half hour. I'd ask them to
    turn it down, they'd say fine, and then they'd turn it back up as soon as I was
    30' away. **** them. I hope then sold a lot of $250 stereos in that half hour
    to make up for the $2500 lost sale.


    I had the exact same experience at three different stores. I ended up buying at
    home depot instead. Best Buy used to be a great store, but it is now a ghetto
    store.

  14. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    RonB wrote:

    > Oh well, I guess folks will just have to buy their Linux versions of the
    > Eee PC at New Egg, or Directron, or J&R, or CompUPlus.com, or Amazon,
    > or...


    Or MacMall even.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  15. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    * Rex Ballard peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Does ANYBODY still buy computers at Best Buy? Seriously, if you're
    > going to spend $700 to 1400 on a computer, why settle for the machine
    > with the 5400 RPM SATA drive, the low res display, and Vista Home
    > edition.


    I'm sure there's quite a few people who don't know much about computers,
    and so they get stiffed.

    Monitors (built in or not) have always been a good way to stiff the
    consumer. They look so pretty in the store, but only when you use them
    heavily do you wish you could fit more text on the screen.

    --
    Expert, n.:
    Someone who comes from out of town and shows slides.

  16. Re: [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Rick

    wrote
    on Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:46:49 -0500
    :
    > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:38:16 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:02:30 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>
    >>> More evidence of Microsoft "tying up" the Asus EeePC

    >>
    >> Asus is in business to sell products. Windows based products (PCs) sell.
    >> Linux based products (PC's) are pikers.....
    >>
    >> Yet another example of the lack of interest from the general public in
    >> Linux.
    >>
    >> You can try and explain it away using any conspiracy theory you like but
    >> the truth of the matter is consumer desktop Linux is ignored.
    >>
    >> Walmart found out.

    >
    > ... and sells Linux based machines.


    Not sure about that anymore. "Find the perfect Desktop"
    show either XP Home or Vista Premium on the top part.

    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=41937

    There is an Acer Everex offering gOS v2, though,
    if one pokes around a bit:

    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...Specifications

    though nowhere on the webpage does it state that it's a Linux OS.

    This is not good...either users will confuse gOS with some
    variant of XP, which will give Microsoft's system support
    bunch a variety of headaches if the system has problems
    (hardware or software), or they will think it's Genuine
    Windows(tm) and be ultra happy, giving Microsoft brownie
    points they simply don't deserve.

    Or they'll actually know gOS is Linux, and overwrite it
    with something they like, if they don't like it already. ;-)
    But that's for those "in the know".

    As for gOS being "the most addicting"...an interesting claim,
    but I'm not sure how truthful it is. ;-)

    >
    >> HP in Austrailia found out.

    >
    > Dunno.
    >
    >> Redhat found out.

    >
    > Never sold computers.
    >
    >> Suse found out.
    >> BestBuy found out.

    >
    > When did Best Buy sell Linux based machines?


    I'm not sure they do, though they do sell Ubuntu Linux for $19.99.
    That's the only thing their search coughed up.

    >
    >>
    >> And now Asus has found out.

    >
    > ...buy selling out of their product.
    >



    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    fortune: not found
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  17. Re: [News] ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    In article ,
    Rick wrote:
    > > BestBuy found out.

    >
    > When did Best Buy sell Linux based machines?


    Asus EEE, up until recently.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  18. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    Rex Ballard wrote:

    > Does ANYBODY still buy computers at Best Buy? Seriously, if you're
    > going to spend $700 to 1400 on a computer, why settle for the machine
    > with the 5400 RPM SATA drive, the low res display, and Vista Home
    > edition.
    >
    > If you're serious about buying a computer, you go to Best Buy to see
    > what it looks like, then you go to the Dell, HP, Acer, or Lenovo Web
    > Site and order what you REALLY want, including WSXGA display, 2 gig of
    > RAM, and 7200 RPM SATA-II drive.


    You talking about laptops?

    I rarely go into BestBuy, but I was there this past Saturday and they have a
    bunch of good deals on desktops. I spent most of my computer time there
    looking at this Gateway beast for $1150

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1214611180474

    Core 2 Quad Q9300, 1333 frontside bus
    6GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory
    640GB SATA II drive
    GeForce 9800 GT 512mb
    Vista Home Premium 64-bit SP1





    > And while you're at it, you can pick
    > up the XP installation media and a full replacement plan.
    >
    > Is it any wonder that Best Buy shelves have lots of "holes" where
    > unsold inventory is not being restocked (they lost their shirts trying
    > to dump the initial shipment).


    You should startup a Linux OEM, and turn that small IBM fortune into a tiny
    IBM fortune.



    > These days, Best Buy computer
    > departments are just plain depressing.


    The laptop area was humming. Desktops less so, but still had a steady
    stream of lookers.


    > The Vista shelves are locked
    > and about 50% empty. Seems that a few people tried to upgrade their
    > home machines, and hated Vista so much that Best Buy decided not to
    > pay more interest on Junk inventory.


    blah blah blah...

    They did have 2 copies of Ubuntu Complete Edition, and that's it for Linux.
    They used to carry more.


    > Ironically, even with Geek Squad on-site, they don't seem to be able
    > to install Linux for you. Seems there is something in their agreement
    > with Microsoft that prevents this.


    You're a liar.


    > At least J&R will sell you what you really want, and doesn't try to
    > exclude legitimate competitors.


    Linux is not a legitimate competitor to Windows or Mac.




  19. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:20:33 -0500, RonB wrote:

    > Rex Ballard wrote:
    >
    >> On Jul 28, 10:24 pm, "Moshe Goldfarb."
    >> wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. *When Microsoft first tried
    >>> > to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    >>> > of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.
    >>>
    >>> Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux version.

    >>
    >> I never saw the Linux version OR the XP version, but J&R in NYC still
    >> had the Linux version on display. *When I observed the other shoppers,
    >> for about 45 minutes, the seemed to prefer the Linux version. *Partly
    >> because it was new and different, partly because they actually did
    >> like OpenOffice and they found that they really could type on it.

    >
    > And we *know* that the only place anyone *ever* buys a computer is at Best
    > Buy -- who probably dropped the Linux version because the margins weren't
    > high enough or cutting into the sales of their higher priced laptops.


    How can the margins be higher on a system that has a FREE operating system
    vs the ones loaded with XP?

    > Oh well, I guess folks will just have to buy their Linux versions of the Eee
    > PC at New Egg, or Directron, or J&R, or CompUPlus.com, or Amazon, or...


    That will change soon as well, now that the Windows versions are out.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  20. Re: ASUS Loses by Surrendering to Microsoft Pressure

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:13:16 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:

    > On Jul 28, 10:24 pm, "Moshe Goldfarb."
    > wrote:
    >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rex Ballard wrote:
    >>
    >>> Actually, Microsoft's pressure back-fired. When Microsoft first tried
    >>> to get XP Home edition for the EEE to store shelves, they expected 60%
    >>> of the sales to be Windows versions, and 40% to be Vista versions.

    >>
    >> Which is why BestBuy, at last check, no longer carries the Linux version.

    >
    > I never saw the Linux version OR the XP version, but J&R in NYC still
    > had the Linux version on display.


    Rachelle happens to be a personal friend of mine and I have known her since
    J&R was a little hole in the wall on Park Row that catered to high end
    audio back in the early 70's.

    I bought my first Marazntz and JBL speakers there sometime around 1975.
    You could just about touch both opposite walls of the store at the same
    time it was so small.


    > When I observed the other shoppers,
    > for about 45 minutes, the seemed to prefer the Linux version.



    Sure you did Rex...
    Sure....

    Some of the stuff you conjure up is incredible.




    > Partly
    > because it was new and different, partly because they actually did
    > like OpenOffice and they found that they really could type on it.


    Unbelievable...

    So how many people actually purchased it?




    >> You Linux loons need to exit the Holodeck once in a while and come out into
    >> the real world.....

    >
    > You think Microsoft is the "real world"?


    Microsoft software is.
    That's how you earn your living, at least in part.

    > No THAT'S AMUSING.
    > ROFLMAO


    No, what's really amusing is how you have the ability to insert your
    bull**** into threads and actually expect people to believe what you say
    without questioning it.


    >> Moshe Goldfarb



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

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