[News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked - Linux

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  1. [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Myth 2: "Wine is bad for Linux"
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Myth 3: "Emulators like VMWare are better"
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Myth 4: "You need Windows anyway"
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Myth 5: "Wine is bad, Winelib is better"
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Myth 6: "Wine will always be playing catch up to Windows and can't possibly
    | succeed at running new applications"
    |
    | [...]
    `----

    http://www.nuxified.org/blog/debunki...ked_wine_myths

    Linux is more backward-compatible than Vista, some would suggest. Microsoft has
    lost $90 billion in value so far this year (source: Bloomberg). Things are
    changing faster than the 'press' wants people to know. The thing to fight now
    is corruption of law (they try to legalise swpatents in India now).

    Microsoft tried threatening Wine and other projects with its
    unwanted 'sponsorship' of Sourceforge Awards.


    Recent:

    [Wine 1.1.1 Released]

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The Wine development release 1.1.1 is now available.
    |
    | What's new in this release (see below for details):
    | ¬* - Fixes for Photoshop CS3 and Office 2007 installers.
    | ¬* - More progress on gdiplus.
    | ¬* - Support for Unicode files in regedit.
    | ¬* - Improved video playback.
    | ¬* - Many Richedit fixes and improvements.
    | ¬* - Various bug fixes.
    `----

    http://www.winehq.org/?announce=1.1.1


    A new way to use Linux.

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | I downloaded his project, a virtual desktop, residing on my windows XP
    | partition, signed up as a user, and am now testing everything to see how it
    | works. You sign on to a Linux desktop, use its programs, save the data, which
    | resides onsite, or you can save it locally. It is still in its early stages
    | and there is not every program that you might want, or need. There are
    | different levels of subscriptions, so I can see a use for individuals, and
    | even small business operators.
    `----

    http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,...334184b,00.htm


    Wine 1.0 Review

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | As a conclusion: for those who really need Windows applications, Wine is a
    | very good solution. The official website includes an applications database,
    | with testing results for each of them and how well they perform.
    `----

    http://vivapinkfloyd.blogspot.com/20...10-review.html


    Related:

    The making of Wine (how to make Windows apps merrier with Linux)

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Enterprises badly want alternatives to
    | Windows. Desktop Linux has come a long way since 1999, too. and (who knew?)
    | the Mac has become the ultra chic, must-have PC. The enterprise has its
    | alternatives - if it can only get those mission critical Windows apps to work
    | flawlessly. Wine, in its commercial form, has been doing so for years.
    |
    | So, in 2008, the 1.0 version will hit the streets and the timing could not be
    | more perfect. White admits that not every Windows application will work
    | flawlessly on Wine, but many a critical one for the enterprise has been
    | specifically optimized.
    `----

    http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/26915
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  2. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"


    Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    It is written by basement boys in their spare time.

    >| [...]
    >|
    >| Myth 2: "Wine is bad for Linux"


    Linux is bad for Wine.
    It pollutes the taste....


    >| [...]
    >|
    >| Myth 3: "Emulators like VMWare are better"



    They are assuming you aren't too cheap to pay for them, like most Linux
    users are.

    |
    >| [...]
    >|
    >| Myth 4: "You need Windows anyway"


    Yep.

    Legally....


    |
    >| [...]
    >|
    >| Myth 5: "Wine is bad, Winelib is better"


    Who cares?
    You just gave a perfect reason not to run Wine.
    Nobody can figure it out.


    |
    >| [...]
    >|
    >| Myth 6: "Wine will always be playing catch up to Windows and can't possibly
    >| succeed at running new applications"


    15+ years and still the website says not for mission critical applications.
    That says it all.


    |

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  3. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"

    >
    > Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.




    Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?

    Which CPU is made by Microsoft?

  4. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > ____/ Charlie Tame on Sunday 27 July 2008 13:09 : \____
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>
    >>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>
    >>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.

    >>
    >>
    >> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>
    >> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?

    >
    > Gary M Stewart (pseudonym "Goldfarb") is just try to harass other newsgroup.
    > Simply ignore or killfile those posts.
    >
    > Here is how Microsoft itself explains the likes of Stewart the Munchkin:
    >
    > 'Use [...] the Internet, etc. to heighten the impression that the enemy is
    > desperate, demoralized, defeated, [...] associated with mental deficiency,
    > as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny". Just keep rubbing
    > it in, via the [...] newsgroups, [...] make the complete failure of the
    > competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry.'
    >
    > (reference PDF pages 45 & 55 on
    > http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf - Comes vs Microsoft lawsuit )
    >
    > - --
    > ~~ Best of wishes
    >
    > Roy S. Schestowitz | Holey (sic) Cow! Longhorn is full of holes...
    > http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    > Swap: 4088500k total, 254840k used, 3833660k free, 687532k cached
    > http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
    >
    > iEYEARECAAYFAkiMg2gACgkQU4xAY3RXLo67KQCdE2DYYzDkDk RdKmikQPo7XJrl
    > wm0AoKEOKC978NhfnC7QKg7e5tmAOwga
    > =p4SN
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



    Oh I know that, was just interested in this new technology he seems to
    have suddenly invented...

  5. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Roy Schestowitz, ye befogged foul misshapen stigmatic, thy will is most
    malignant, ye panted:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > ____/ Charlie Tame on Sunday 27 July 2008 13:09 : \____
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>
    >>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>
    >>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>
    >>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>
    >> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?

    >
    > Gary M Stewart (pseudonym "Goldfarb") is just try to harass other
    > newsgroup.
    > Simply ignore or killfile those posts.


    Linux****tard control freak.

    > Here is how Microsoft itself explains the likes of Stewart the Munchkin:
    >
    > 'Use [...] the Internet, etc. to heighten the impression that the enemy is
    > desperate, demoralized, defeated, [...] associated with mental deficiency,
    > as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny". Just keep rubbing
    > it in, via the [...] newsgroups, [...] make the complete failure of the
    > competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry.'
    >
    > (reference PDF pages 45 & 55 on
    > http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf - Comes vs Microsoft lawsuit )
    >
    > - --
    > ~~ Best of wishes
    >
    > Roy S. Schestowitz | Holey (sic) Cow! Longhorn is full of holes...
    > http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    > Swap: 4088500k total, 254840k used, 3833660k free, 687532k cached
    > http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
    >
    > iEYEARECAAYFAkiMg2gACgkQU4xAY3RXLo67KQCdE2DYYzDkDk RdKmikQPo7XJrl
    > wm0AoKEOKC978NhfnC7QKg7e5tmAOwga
    > =p4SN
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    >


    --
    Hammer of Thor: February 2007. Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook,
    Line & Sinker: September 2005, April 2006, January 2007.
    Official Member: Cabal Obsidian Order COOSN-124-07-06660
    Official Overseer of Kooks & Trolls in 24hoursupport.helpdesk

  6. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Charlie Tame on Sunday 27 July 2008 13:09 : \____

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>
    >>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>
    >>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"

    >>
    >> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.

    >
    >
    >
    > Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >
    > Which CPU is made by Microsoft?


    Gary M Stewart (pseudonym "Goldfarb") is just try to harass other newsgroup.
    Simply ignore or killfile those posts.

    Here is how Microsoft itself explains the likes of Stewart the Munchkin:

    'Use [...] the Internet, etc. to heighten the impression that the enemy is
    desperate, demoralized, defeated, [...] associated with mental deficiency,
    as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny". Just keep rubbing
    it in, via the [...] newsgroups, [...] make the complete failure of the
    competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry.'

    (reference PDF pages 45 & 55 on
    http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf - Comes vs Microsoft lawsuit )

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Holey (sic) Cow! Longhorn is full of holes...
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Swap: 4088500k total, 254840k used, 3833660k free, 687532k cached
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
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    Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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    wm0AoKEOKC978NhfnC7QKg7e5tmAOwga
    =p4SN
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

  7. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>
    >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>
    >>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>
    >>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"

    >>
    >> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.

    >
    >
    >
    > Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?


    Windows code...

    > Which CPU is made by Microsoft?


    None. thank God


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  8. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>
    >>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>
    >>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.

    >>
    >>
    >> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?

    >
    > Windows code...
    >
    >> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?

    >
    > None. thank God
    >
    >


    Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can run.
    This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the Java
    Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the processor's
    "Native" code.

    Both of these processes are slower than writing something in C++ which
    in turn is slower to execute than something written in Assembler for the
    processor concerned.

    As someone else pointed out running XP or Vista under an emulator like
    VirtualBox can be just as fast as running dedicated on the host - quite
    surprising since the operating system on the host can be used at the
    same time. Some fancy graphics like Aero don't work, but everything else
    does, so that kinda questions what overhead Aero places on the system.

    Different people will always have different experiences and preferences,
    and what suits you will likely not always suit me, although sometimes it
    will. Both Windows and Linux varieties can be excellent for some people
    in some circumstances, that may vary in other circumstances. Personally
    I think learning alternatives is always a good thing. One of the useful
    things about Linux (most of them) is that if you have a machine that has
    no legal Windows, it's broken or you lost the CD etc, you can still
    legally use that machine, for many people that s a useful thing but only
    if the know about it. The last thing I would like to see is Microsoft go
    down the toilet, but they also don't want their software stolen and I
    don't want to steal it. There is no need to do either. That is a good
    thing.

  9. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Charlie Tame wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?

    >>
    >> Windows code...
    >>
    >>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?

    >>
    >> None. thank God
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    > the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    > the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can run.
    > This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the Java
    > Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the processor's
    > "Native" code.
    >
    > Both of these processes are slower than writing something in C++


    http://kano.net/javabench/data
    Old, but still correct

    See also here
    http://www.ddj.com/cpp/184401976;jse...questid=471256

    There are much more. Most benchmarks say that good Java code /can/
    outperform C++

    > which
    > in turn is slower to execute than something written in Assembler for the
    > processor concerned.


    That is also an old myth. I have written extensivly in assembler in the
    past, and it is still viable when trying to get the smallest possible code.
    But it is next to impossible to get /faster/ code overall than for example
    writing the same thing in C

    < snip >
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    Let it get in YOUR way. The problem for your problem.


  10. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Charlie Tame writes:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?

    >>
    >> Windows code...
    >>
    >>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?

    >>
    >> None. thank God
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    > the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    > the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can
    > run. This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the
    > Java Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the
    > processor's "Native" code.


    Who on earth told you this nonsense?

  11. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Peter Köhlmann writes:

    > Charlie Tame wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>>
    >>> Windows code...
    >>>
    >>>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?
    >>>
    >>> None. thank God
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    >> the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    >> the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can run.
    >> This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the Java
    >> Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the processor's
    >> "Native" code.
    >>
    >> Both of these processes are slower than writing something in C++

    >
    > http://kano.net/javabench/data
    > Old, but still correct
    >
    > See also here
    > http://www.ddj.com/cpp/184401976;jse...questid=471256
    >
    > There are much more. Most benchmarks say that good Java code /can/
    > outperform C++


    Sure, if they both call libraries for most of the work and the Java one
    is better optimised.

    In the same way I could outsprint Carl Lewis if he had both legs chopped
    off.

    Only someone VERY clueless would EVER thing Java will run faster than
    well designed C++.

    >
    >> which
    >> in turn is slower to execute than something written in Assembler for the
    >> processor concerned.

    >
    > That is also an old myth. I have written extensivly in assembler in the
    > past, and it is still viable when trying to get the smallest possible code.
    > But it is next to impossible to get /faster/ code overall than for example
    > writing the same thing in C


    One in a million assembler programmers might optimise better than a good
    compiler. You are quite correct.

    --
    "Off the top of my head, I can't tell you which sites. They are ones that
    throw up some kind of dialog, I change the user agent and look at them
    again, then move on."
    -- Rick telling lies in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  12. Re: Windows Developers MUST write software for WINE 1.0 Compliance

    > If you then add dual core or quad core then you get 2x and 4x speed
    > improvement of business critical applications.


    heh .. sounds like an OLD Apple computer marketing escapee ..


    Rich

  13. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    > Gary M Stewart (pseudonym "Goldfarb") is just try to harass other
    > newsgroup.
    > Simply ignore or killfile those posts.


    Chutzpah ...
    You'd know all about this tactic


    Rich


  14. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked


    > Who on earth told you this nonsense?



    It blooms in the brains of these nonsensees magically it seems.
    Not to worry, natural selection leaves these fabulist standing alone in the
    night on the edges of windblown precipices, blinking endlessly at where
    their fate has taken them.


    Rich


  15. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    Hadron wrote in news:g6ic8o$o4i$4
    @registered.motzarella.org:

    > Charlie Tame writes:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>>
    >>> Windows code...
    >>>
    >>>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?
    >>>
    >>> None. thank God
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    >> the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    >> the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can
    >> run. This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the
    >> Java Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the
    >> processor's "Native" code.

    >
    > Who on earth told you this nonsense?


    Why is this nonsense ? And that's how it typically works. .Net-wise
    anyway. Java can work that way to. It's called JIT, or Just-In-Time,
    compiling, just in case you've never heard of it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...diate_Language


  16. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    "Rich" wrote in
    news:eiZpHtB8IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

    >
    >> Who on earth told you this nonsense?

    >
    >
    > It blooms in the brains of these nonsensees magically it seems.
    > Not to worry, natural selection leaves these fabulist standing alone
    > in the night on the edges of windblown precipices, blinking endlessly
    > at where their fate has taken them.
    >
    >
    > Rich
    >


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...diate_Language - Read the
    general section.

  17. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    DanS writes:

    > Hadron wrote in news:g6ic8o$o4i$4
    > @registered.motzarella.org:
    >
    >> Charlie Tame writes:
    >>
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>>>
    >>>> Windows code...
    >>>>
    >>>>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?
    >>>>
    >>>> None. thank God
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    >>> the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    >>> the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can
    >>> run. This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the
    >>> Java Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the
    >>> processor's "Native" code.

    >>
    >> Who on earth told you this nonsense?

    >
    > Why is this nonsense ? And that's how it typically works. .Net-wise


    "Windows code" - there is no such thing. There can be code aimed at
    Windows. One needs to be more specific.

    > anyway. Java can work that way to. It's called JIT, or Just-In-Time,
    > compiling, just in case you've never heard of it.



    Can. It was stated that the Interpreter converts it to native code. It
    does no such thing. The interpreter interprets it. The p-code that is.

    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...diate_Language
    >


    There is a big difference between "Interpreter" and Compiler. Something
    can compile source to p-code and later another one to native code then
    the native code can exec. And interpreter does not do that. Unless words
    have changed dramatically recently.

  18. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:21:33 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > DanS writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote in news:g6ic8o$o4i$4
    >> @registered.motzarella.org:
    >>
    >>> Charlie Tame writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>>>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Windows code...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> None. thank God
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    >>>> the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    >>>> the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can
    >>>> run. This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the
    >>>> Java Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the
    >>>> processor's "Native" code.
    >>>
    >>> Who on earth told you this nonsense?

    >>
    >> Why is this nonsense ? And that's how it typically works. .Net-wise

    >
    > "Windows code" - there is no such thing. There can be code aimed at
    > Windows. One needs to be more specific.
    >
    >> anyway. Java can work that way to. It's called JIT, or Just-In-Time,
    >> compiling, just in case you've never heard of it.

    >
    >
    > Can. It was stated that the Interpreter converts it to native code. It
    > does no such thing. The interpreter interprets it. The p-code that is.
    >
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...diate_Language
    >>

    >
    > There is a big difference between "Interpreter" and Compiler. Something
    > can compile source to p-code and later another one to native code then
    > the native code can exec. And interpreter does not do that. Unless words
    > have changed dramatically recently.


    To clarify, what I meant was the Windows source code itself...

    Point being I have yet to see an application that runs better under Wine
    than under real, native Windows.
    More often than not screen redraw and paint problems are typical of
    programs running under Wine.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  19. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    On 2008-07-27, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    > Charlie Tame wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:09:19 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:41:01 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Debunking the Debunked WINE Myths
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>>>>> | Myth 1: "Wine is slow because it is an emulator"
    >>>>> Wine is slow because it is WINE and not native Microsoft code.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Please explain what Microsoft Native Code is?
    >>>
    >>> Windows code...
    >>>
    >>>> Which CPU is made by Microsoft?
    >>>
    >>> None. thank God
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Windows code these days is often "Compiled" first to "Byte code" when
    >> the program is written and then "Interpreted" from "Byte code" by such
    >> the as .net framework to actual "Native" code the processor can run.
    >> This is rather like writing a program in Java. In that case the Java
    >> Virtual Machine is the "Interpreter" that converts it to the processor's
    >> "Native" code.
    >>
    >> Both of these processes are slower than writing something in C++

    >
    > http://kano.net/javabench/data
    > Old, but still correct
    >
    > See also here
    > http://www.ddj.com/cpp/184401976;jse...questid=471256
    >
    > There are much more. Most benchmarks say that good Java code /can/
    > outperform C++
    >
    >> which
    >> in turn is slower to execute than something written in Assembler for the
    >> processor concerned.

    >
    > That is also an old myth. I have written extensivly in assembler in the
    > past, and it is still viable when trying to get the smallest possible code.
    > But it is next to impossible to get /faster/ code overall than for example
    > writing the same thing in C


    That's correct. Assembler is useful for coding critical sections such as
    loops, where simple repeated actions such as pushing and popping a base
    pointer and stackpointer (something that C does whenever it enters a
    subroutine) add up to minutes of wasted time.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  20. Re: [News] Many Lies About Wine Debunked

    The only app that I may possibly want to use under WINE, is Internet
    Explorer version 7. (to check website compatibility).

    Is there anyone who was able to successfully install it under WINE?

    i

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