How simple are newbies anyway? - Linux

This is a discussion on How simple are newbies anyway? - Linux ; Linonut writes: > * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo: > >> Linonut wrote: >> >>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go, >>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing. >> >> I ...

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Thread: How simple are newbies anyway?

  1. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    Linonut writes:

    > * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.

    >>
    >> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >> malicious software.

    >
    > Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    > selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >
    >> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >> of key commercial apps like Quicken.

    >
    > I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    > another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?
    >
    > I would simply export my Quicken data and import it into GNUcash.


    Yes, but you're a known idiot who makes things up. You know full well
    that that is not the solution for millions of small businesses and they
    are likely to crash and burn doing that.

    --
    I really think XP is going to be a flop. Between the glut of hardware out
    there (and slowing down of purchasing), and the fact that W2K is
    sufficient for so many casual users.... I just don't see it taking off.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  2. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    Linonut wrote:

    >* chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.

    >>
    >> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >> malicious software.

    >
    >Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.


    But you're also helping to guarantee the survival of Linux and choice.

    And, should Linux flourish, I don't think that "Jerks who want to lock
    you in" would survive. With pervasive choice, people will have a new
    mind-set, i.e. that their data is *theirs*, and that the software
    vendor will have to work with an open data format to be considered.

    >> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >> of key commercial apps like Quicken.

    >
    >I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?


    They have to buy new versions periodically anyway. When it comes time
    to ditch their malware-infested Windows box, many more would switch to
    the safety of Linux, if only apps like Quicken were available.


  3. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    > Linonut writes:
    >
    >> * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>>
    >>> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >>> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >>> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >>> malicious software.

    >>
    >> Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >> selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >>
    >>> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >>> of key commercial apps like Quicken.

    >>
    >> I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >> another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?
    >>
    >> I would simply export my Quicken data and import it into GNUcash.

    >
    > Yes, but you're a known idiot who makes things up. You know full well
    > that that is not the solution for millions of small businesses and they
    > are likely to crash and burn doing that.


    You're an IDIOT.

    A small business is not going to use Quicken.

    Their accountant would slap them... possibly with a cricket bat.

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  4. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    JEDIDIAH writes:

    > On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    >> Linonut writes:
    >>
    >>> * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>>>
    >>>> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >>>> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >>>> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >>>> malicious software.
    >>>
    >>> Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >>> selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >>>
    >>>> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >>>> of key commercial apps like Quicken.
    >>>
    >>> I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >>> another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?
    >>>
    >>> I would simply export my Quicken data and import it into GNUcash.

    >>
    >> Yes, but you're a known idiot who makes things up. You know full well
    >> that that is not the solution for millions of small businesses and they
    >> are likely to crash and burn doing that.

    >
    > You're an IDIOT.
    >
    > A small business is not going to use Quicken.
    >
    > Their accountant would slap them... possibly with a cricket bat.


    It appears that small business accountancy should be put up there with
    modern gaming and video HW as far as Jeb goes.

    http://www.quicken.com/small_business/

    --
    "My college theater antics were the inspiration for Robin
    Williams' character on Mork & Mindy"
    -- Rex Ballard in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  5. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:43:12 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > JEDIDIAH writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Linonut writes:
    >>>
    >>>> * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>>>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >>>>> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >>>>> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >>>>> malicious software.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >>>> selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >>>>
    >>>>> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >>>>> of key commercial apps like Quicken.
    >>>>
    >>>> I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >>>> another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?
    >>>>
    >>>> I would simply export my Quicken data and import it into GNUcash.
    >>>
    >>> Yes, but you're a known idiot who makes things up. You know full well
    >>> that that is not the solution for millions of small businesses and they
    >>> are likely to crash and burn doing that.

    >>
    >> You're an IDIOT.
    >>
    >> A small business is not going to use Quicken.
    >>
    >> Their accountant would slap them... possibly with a cricket bat.

    >
    > It appears that small business accountancy should be put up there with
    > modern gaming and video HW as far as Jeb goes.
    >
    > http://www.quicken.com/small_business/


    Yea...
    Jebediah is way out of touch once again.

    He probably uses an abacus to do his financials.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:

    > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:43:12 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    >>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>>>>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >>>>>> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >>>>>> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >>>>>> malicious software.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >>>>> selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >>>>>> of key commercial apps like Quicken.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >>>>> another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I would simply export my Quicken data and import it into GNUcash.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, but you're a known idiot who makes things up. You know full well
    >>>> that that is not the solution for millions of small businesses and they
    >>>> are likely to crash and burn doing that.
    >>>
    >>> You're an IDIOT.
    >>>
    >>> A small business is not going to use Quicken.
    >>>
    >>> Their accountant would slap them... possibly with a cricket bat.

    >>
    >> It appears that small business accountancy should be put up there with
    >> modern gaming and video HW as far as Jeb goes.
    >>
    >> http://www.quicken.com/small_business/

    >
    > Yea...
    > Jebediah is way out of touch once again.
    >
    > He probably uses an abacus to do his financials.


    A box of matches would do for the OpenMoko fiasco.

  7. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >>Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >>selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.

    >
    > But you're also helping to guarantee the survival of Linux and choice.


    I don't think so, chrisv. Look where Linux has gotten with /minimal/
    commercial support.

    > And, should Linux flourish, I don't think that "Jerks who want to lock
    > you in" would survive. With pervasive choice, people will have a new
    > mind-set, i.e. that their data is *theirs*, and that the software
    > vendor will have to work with an open data format to be considered.


    I can agree with that one.

    In fact, I can see where commercial vendors would agree, too, and say,
    "Hmmm, our usual gambit ain't gonna work. Maybe we'd best continue to
    rely on the Windows suckers."

    >>I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >>another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?

    >
    > They have to buy new versions periodically anyway. When it comes time
    > to ditch their malware-infested Windows box, many more would switch to
    > the safety of Linux, if only apps like Quicken were available.


    Again, I can agree, to some extent -- how many Quicken users are there,
    and how many would /really/ switch just because of Quicken.

    Anyway, my main thing here is -- be vigilant.

    --
    Save yourself! Reboot in 5 seconds!

  8. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    Linonut wrote:

    >> They have to buy new versions periodically anyway. When it comes time
    >> to ditch their malware-infested Windows box, many more would switch to
    >> the safety of Linux, if only apps like Quicken were available.

    >
    >Again, I can agree, to some extent -- how many Quicken users are there,
    >and how many would /really/ switch just because of Quicken.


    That's just an example, of course. More than once, I've seen it where
    one app was the "show stopper" preventing someone from trying Linux.


  9. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    chrisv wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >>> They have to buy new versions periodically anyway. When it comes time
    >>> to ditch their malware-infested Windows box, many more would switch to
    >>> the safety of Linux, if only apps like Quicken were available.

    >> Again, I can agree, to some extent -- how many Quicken users are there,
    >> and how many would /really/ switch just because of Quicken.

    >
    > That's just an example, of course. More than once, I've seen it where
    > one app was the "show stopper" preventing someone from trying Linux.
    >


    More often than not, there's a FOSS alternative that's just as good and
    easy to use.

    People are just too lazy to look.

  10. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:16:16 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    >> They have to buy new versions periodically anyway. When it comes time
    >> to ditch their malware-infested Windows box, many more would switch to
    >> the safety of Linux, if only apps like Quicken were available.

    >
    > Again, I can agree, to some extent -- how many Quicken users are there,
    > and how many would /really/ switch just because of Quicken.
    >
    > Anyway, my main thing here is -- be vigilant.



    It's not just quicken, it's just a variety of vendor-lockin situations.
    itunes, quicken, quickbooks, video codecs, etc, these are the barriers.


    -Thufir

  11. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    > JEDIDIAH writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Linonut writes:
    >>>
    >>>> * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>>>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >>>>> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >>>>> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >>>>> malicious software.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >>>> selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >>>>
    >>>>> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >>>>> of key commercial apps like Quicken.
    >>>>
    >>>> I wonder just how many people, who already have Quicken, would pay for
    >>>> another copy of it just to be able to run it on Linux?
    >>>>
    >>>> I would simply export my Quicken data and import it into GNUcash.
    >>>
    >>> Yes, but you're a known idiot who makes things up. You know full well
    >>> that that is not the solution for millions of small businesses and they
    >>> are likely to crash and burn doing that.

    >>
    >> You're an IDIOT.
    >>
    >> A small business is not going to use Quicken.
    >>
    >> Their accountant would slap them... possibly with a cricket bat.

    >
    > It appears that small business accountancy should be put up there with
    > modern gaming and video HW as far as Jeb goes.
    >
    > http://www.quicken.com/small_business/


    ....which is a link to QUICKBOOKS, not "quicken" you moron.


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  12. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    > "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:
    >
    >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:43:12 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:
    >>>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> * chrisv peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Linonut wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >>>>>>>>well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I think it is. Would not the world in general be better-off of more
    >>>>>>> people switched to Linux? Think of the saved $billions of resources -
    >>>>>>> not only in the price of M$ software, but in fighting spam and
    >>>>>>> malicious software.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Yeah, but you're also yoking your system to the desires of a horde of
    >>>>>> selfish interfering jerks who want to lock you into their products.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> And what's a BIG reason why many do not switch? The unavailability
    >>>>>>> of key commercial apps like Quicken.


    [deletia]

    >>> http://www.quicken.com/small_business/

    >>
    >> Yea...
    >> Jebediah is way out of touch once again.
    >>
    >> He probably uses an abacus to do his financials.


    What kind of idiot does his own financials anyways?

    My accountant could use an abacus for all I care. I don't
    pay him based on what technology he uses. I pay him for
    knowing about accounting.

    >
    > A box of matches would do for the OpenMoko fiasco.



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  13. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
    > On 2008-07-22, Hadron wrote:


    >> http://www.quicken.com/small_business/

    >
    > ...which is a link to QUICKBOOKS, not "quicken" you moron.


    Tech support: Which OS are you running?
    Hardon: I'm running Microsoft.

    Yup, that's about right.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining
    | armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos
    | neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate
    | technology, led them into it in the first place." ~ Douglas Adams
    `----

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    22:57:03 up 214 days, 19:32, 4 users, load average: 0.26, 0.44, 0.44

  14. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    chrisv wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >>> They have to buy new versions periodically anyway. When it comes time
    >>> to ditch their malware-infested Windows box, many more would switch to
    >>> the safety of Linux, if only apps like Quicken were available.

    >> Again, I can agree, to some extent -- how many Quicken users are there,
    >> and how many would /really/ switch just because of Quicken.

    >
    > That's just an example, of course. More than once, I've seen it where
    > one app was the "show stopper" preventing someone from trying Linux.



    Schlaumäuse

    http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/...e_to_linux_why

  15. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    Ben wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >> * Matt peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> I admire your Puritanism, and I can see that your skin crawls when
    >>> you rub elbows with the rabble, but without a big usage share (say at
    >>> least 10%), Linux users are forever in a software desert.

    >>
    >> Sounds like you're claiming Linux is at 10%. I don't see any "software
    >> desert".
    >>
    >> If you mean Linux is arid as far as "popular commercial programs" go,
    >> well, I'm not convinced that is a bad thing.
    >>

    >
    > Agreed. Many people use Linux because it gives them a better option of
    > using non-commercial (FOSS) software. The only commercial software I'm
    > inclined to use is games. Apart from that, I'm happy with all of the
    > free software which works just as well as the commercial stuff I'd have
    > to pay extortionist prices to use.



    Imagine the state of Firefox if it were built only for Linux.

    It would be hell to get funding to build an OS-specific FOSS app used by
    under 2% of people.

    Most of the effort going into Firefox has little to do with the OSes it
    runs on.

    By putting into the project a few Linux folks who pay attention to the
    few OS-specific issues, Linux users get the benefit of the large
    programming effort justified by a large base of (ca. 90% Windows) users.

    Firefox puts any commercial browsers for Linux out of business and
    delivers the benefits of FOSS in the browser niche.

    That is how it will go eventually with smaller, more specialized niches.

  16. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    JEDIDIAH wrote:
    > My accountant could use an abacus for all I care. I don't
    > pay him based on what technology he uses. I pay him for
    > knowing about accounting.


    I some countries we don't need to hire an accountant just to balance our
    chequebooks.

    Mainly because we don't need to work out our own taxes. They're deducted
    from our wages before we get them (unless you're self employed).

    The only time you need to deal with the inland revenue directly is if you
    changed jobs during the year (or lost, or got a job). Then you'll be due a
    tax rebate.
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    | in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
    | Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |

  17. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On 2008-07-23, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    > JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >> My accountant could use an abacus for all I care. I don't
    >> pay him based on what technology he uses. I pay him for
    >> knowing about accounting.

    >
    > I some countries we don't need to hire an accountant just to balance our
    > chequebooks.
    >
    > Mainly because we don't need to work out our own taxes. They're deducted
    > from our wages before we get them (unless you're self employed).


    Here in America they call that the 1040EZ.

    If you have no ambition or interest in anything beyond a government
    pension, you too can spend your life blissfully waiting for the nanny
    state to take care of you when you're too old and decrepid to enjoy
    life (or work) anymore.


    >
    > The only time you need to deal with the inland revenue directly is if you
    > changed jobs during the year (or lost, or got a job). Then you'll be due a
    > tax rebate.



    --
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    attempt to distort reality to do so. This is what separates |||
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  18. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >> I some countries we don't need to hire an accountant just to balance our
    >> chequebooks.
    >>
    >> Mainly because we don't need to work out our own taxes. They're deducted
    >> from our wages before we get them (unless you're self employed).

    >
    > Here in America they call that the 1040EZ.
    >
    > If you have no ambition or interest in anything beyond a government
    > pension, you too can spend your life blissfully waiting for the nanny
    > state to take care of you when you're too old and decrepid to enjoy
    > life (or work) anymore.


    Over here, it's called PAYE (Pay As You Earn) and all employees pay it.
    Well, the vast majority anyway. There might be a call for a tax return if
    you donate a lot to charity or spend part of your time doing side jobs, or
    something.

    As for pension, that's something else, called national insurance, and that
    too is taken out of your pay packet before you get it.
    (National insurance goes towards state pensions, national health service and
    unemployment benefits)

    --
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
    | | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
    | Andrew Halliwell BSc | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
    | in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
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  19. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    Andrew Halliwell writes:

    > JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >> My accountant could use an abacus for all I care. I don't
    >> pay him based on what technology he uses. I pay him for
    >> knowing about accounting.

    >
    > I some countries we don't need to hire an accountant just to balance our
    > chequebooks.
    >
    > Mainly because we don't need to work out our own taxes. They're deducted
    > from our wages before we get them (unless you're self employed).
    >
    > The only time you need to deal with the inland revenue directly is if you
    > changed jobs during the year (or lost, or got a job). Then you'll be due a
    > tax rebate.


    Guffaw.

    We are talking about people who DO need to do their own books. Not a
    teacher like you for whom its all taken care of for ... by your *wait
    for it* your accounting department.

    FFS. Get a clue.

  20. Re: How simple are newbies anyway?

    On 2008-07-24, Hadron wrote:
    > Andrew Halliwell writes:
    >
    >> JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >>> My accountant could use an abacus for all I care. I don't
    >>> pay him based on what technology he uses. I pay him for
    >>> knowing about accounting.

    >>
    >> I some countries we don't need to hire an accountant just to balance our
    >> chequebooks.
    >>
    >> Mainly because we don't need to work out our own taxes. They're deducted
    >> from our wages before we get them (unless you're self employed).
    >>
    >> The only time you need to deal with the inland revenue directly is if you
    >> changed jobs during the year (or lost, or got a job). Then you'll be due a
    >> tax rebate.

    >
    > Guffaw.
    >
    > We are talking about people who DO need to do their own books. Not a


    Not all teachers are created equal.

    My high school chem teacher wasn't just one of those mindless
    employee types. He was a professional chemist and had some
    ambition. So there was something within his finances for an
    actual accountant to mull over.

    If your approach to life is much like a Mexican factory worker at
    a ConAgra meat packing plant then of course you won't ever need an
    accountant...

    > teacher like you for whom its all taken care of for ... by your *wait
    > for it* your accounting department.
    >
    > FFS. Get a clue.



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