[News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs - Linux ; -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project ,----[ Quote ] | Nordström was coordinator of the EU type theory project, dubbed TYPES, whose | partners are now releasing open ...

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Thread: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

  1. [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

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    Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Nordström was coordinator of the EU type theory project, dubbed TYPES, whose
    | partners are now releasing open source software for download, use and
    | modification.
    `----

    http://www.mcsolutions.co.uk/article...-project-.aspx


    Recent:

    Which platform: Cathedral or open source?

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | "Bazaar," or open source software, is created more independently. Building
    | upon a basic kernel, independent developers improve functionality or fix bugs
    | as they see a need. It's basically crowdsourcing for software. Well-known
    | examples include Linux and Apache. But not Firefox or Eclipse -- while many
    | people assume that they follow the Bazaar model, there's more to it than
    | that, as we'll shortly see.
    `----

    http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008...or-open-source


    Ubuntu creator wants to squash 'upstream' bugs

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The founder of the Ubuntu open-source operating system, Mark Shuttleworth,
    | has called for Ubuntu developers to fix all software flaws found in the
    | operating system, including, crucially, those in inherited source code.
    |
    | Shuttleworth, who runs Ubuntu's commercial arm, Canonical, said that most
    | users expect developers of open-source distributions to fix bugs affecting
    | the operating systems, even if the flaws were introduced in groups of files
    | developed by other coders. Such groups of files are often referred to
    | as 'upstream' source code.
    `----

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9440954,00.htm
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  2. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/WBugs

    Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:

    > Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project


    Haven't they heard of ML? It's a self-proving language that's been
    around for three decades.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining
    | armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos
    | neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate
    | technology, led them into it in the first place." ~ Douglas Adams
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    18:56:42 up 209 days, 15:32, 4 users, load average: 0.97, 0.57, 0.40

  3. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer

    wrote
    on Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:56:58 +0100
    :
    > Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >
    >> Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project

    >
    > Haven't they heard of ML? It's a self-proving language that's been
    > around for three decades.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language
    >


    Interesting language; beats me how I missed this one. ;-)

    While most languages would probably implement reverse() recursively as
    e.g. C++, using a substring method:

    std::string reverse(std::string inp)
    {
    if(inp.size() == 0) return "";
    else return reverse(inp.substr(1,inp.size() - 1)) + inp[0];
    }

    or Java:

    String reverse(String inp)
    {
    if(inp.equals("")) return "";
    else return reverse(inp.substr(1)) + inp.substr(0,1);
    }

    ML uses a pattern-matching syntax:

    fun reverse([])=nil
    | reverse(h::t) = (reverse(t))@[h];

    Microsoft already has F#, which is apparently an ML derivative for .NET.

    For its part Linux appears to have similar functional
    languages OCaml, Haskell, and is working on a beta
    for Erlang. All three are in Gentoo's Portage tree,
    and wxhaskell is also available (presumably based on the
    wxPython widget set).

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Does anyone else remember the 1802?
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  4. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

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    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday 17 July 2008 20:41 : \____

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer
    >
    > wrote
    > on Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:56:58 +0100
    > :
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project

    >>
    >> Haven't they heard of ML? It's a self-proving language that's been
    >> around for three decades.
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language
    >>

    >
    > Interesting language; beats me how I missed this one. ;-)
    >
    > While most languages would probably implement reverse() recursively as
    > e.g. C++, using a substring method:
    >
    > std::string reverse(std::string inp)
    > {
    > if(inp.size() == 0) return "";
    > else return reverse(inp.substr(1,inp.size() - 1)) + inp[0];
    > }
    >
    > or Java:
    >
    > String reverse(String inp)
    > {
    > if(inp.equals("")) return "";
    > else return reverse(inp.substr(1)) + inp.substr(0,1);
    > }
    >
    > ML uses a pattern-matching syntax:
    >
    > fun reverse([])=nil
    > | reverse(h::t) = (reverse(t))@[h];
    >
    > Microsoft already has F#, which is apparently an ML derivative for .NET.
    >
    > For its part Linux appears to have similar functional
    > languages OCaml, Haskell, and is working on a beta
    > for Erlang. All three are in Gentoo's Portage tree,
    > and wxhaskell is also available (presumably based on the
    > wxPython widget set).


    ML was one of the first P/Ls I was taught. SML in high school, then Moscow ML
    (just a different implementation) in college. It's pretty useless for most
    things we think of as 'applications', but good for language processing, AI,
    etc.

    ML is a nightmare to work with at a high pace. OpenGL, on the other hand, has
    been lots of fun. programming for GPUs makes eye candy (bugs are very visual)
    whereas ML is the very opposite -- CLI.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Y |-(1^2)|^(1/2)+1 K
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    run-level 5 Jul 14 10:32 last=S
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
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  5. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/WBugs

    Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:

    > ML was one of the first P/Ls I was taught. SML in high school, then
    > Moscow ML (just a different implementation) in college.


    I did Edinburgh ML at uni (in Edinburgh, no less), although I had done
    Pascal and various forms of BASIC before that, and some 68K assembly.
    Ultimately I still prefer C, although my skills are basic at best.
    Probably the most gratifying language I ever used was ARexx, primarily
    due to its ports system (supporting applications with an ARexx port(al)
    allowed calling functions within the application from a script). There
    was even an ARexx compiler IIRC.

    I've never touched OCaml, but it's on my todo list ... along with
    several hundred other things, like Ajax.

    > It's pretty useless for most things we think of as 'applications',
    > but good for language processing, AI, etc.
    >
    > ML is a nightmare to work with at a high pace. OpenGL, on the other
    > hand, has been lots of fun. programming for GPUs makes eye candy
    > (bugs are very visual) whereas ML is the very opposite -- CLI.


    There are bindings to GTK+ available in mGTK, and subsequently LablGL
    and LablGTK for OCaml.

    I think the main advantage to ML in general is in logical analysis,
    where deductive reasoning and proof are paramount, but essentially /any/
    language may be utilised for any purpose, given the right approach. It
    just depends on what your used to.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining
    | armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos
    | neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate
    | technology, led them into it in the first place." ~ Douglas Adams
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    17:34:28 up 210 days, 14:10, 4 users, load average: 0.22, 0.27, 0.26

  6. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz

    wrote
    on Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:51:57 +0000
    <1725011.GhelxmuWVP@schestowitz.com>:
    >
    > ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday 17 July 2008 20:41 : \____
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:56:58 +0100
    >> :
    >>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>>
    >>>> Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project
    >>>
    >>> Haven't they heard of ML? It's a self-proving language that's been
    >>> around for three decades.
    >>>
    >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language
    >>>

    >>
    >> Interesting language; beats me how I missed this one. ;-)
    >>
    >> While most languages would probably implement reverse() recursively as
    >> e.g. C++, using a substring method:
    >>
    >> std::string reverse(std::string inp)
    >> {
    >> if(inp.size() == 0) return "";
    >> else return reverse(inp.substr(1,inp.size() - 1)) + inp[0];
    >> }
    >>
    >> or Java:
    >>
    >> String reverse(String inp)
    >> {
    >> if(inp.equals("")) return "";
    >> else return reverse(inp.substr(1)) + inp.substr(0,1);
    >> }
    >>
    >> ML uses a pattern-matching syntax:
    >>
    >> fun reverse([])=nil
    >> | reverse(h::t) = (reverse(t))@[h];
    >>
    >> Microsoft already has F#, which is apparently an ML derivative for .NET.
    >>
    >> For its part Linux appears to have similar functional
    >> languages OCaml, Haskell, and is working on a beta
    >> for Erlang. All three are in Gentoo's Portage tree,
    >> and wxhaskell is also available (presumably based on the
    >> wxPython widget set).

    >
    > ML was one of the first P/Ls I was taught. SML in high school,
    > then Moscow ML (just a different implementation) in college.
    > It's pretty useless for most things we think of as
    > 'applications', but good for language processing, AI,
    > etc.
    >
    > ML is a nightmare to work with at a high pace. OpenGL,
    > on the other hand, has been lots of fun. programming
    > for GPUs makes eye candy (bugs are very visual)
    > whereas ML is the very opposite -- CLI.


    Agreed; I was hoping wxHaskell would be an IDE, but it turns
    out to be a set of Haskell bindings for the wx widget set.
    Still useful, for Haskell users, I suppose; just not quite
    what I was expecting.

    OpenGL is also a language (though not in the usual sense), and
    quite fun to play with.

    [.sigsnip]

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  7. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

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    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Friday 18 July 2008 16:49 : \____

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    >
    > wrote
    > on Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:51:57 +0000
    > <1725011.GhelxmuWVP@schestowitz.com>:
    >>
    >> ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday 17 July 2008 20:41 : \____
    >>
    >>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer
    >>>
    >>> wrote
    >>> on Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:56:58 +0100
    >>> :
    >>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project
    >>>>
    >>>> Haven't they heard of ML? It's a self-proving language that's been
    >>>> around for three decades.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Interesting language; beats me how I missed this one. ;-)
    >>>
    >>> While most languages would probably implement reverse() recursively as
    >>> e.g. C++, using a substring method:
    >>>
    >>> std::string reverse(std::string inp)
    >>> {
    >>> if(inp.size() == 0) return "";
    >>> else return reverse(inp.substr(1,inp.size() - 1)) + inp[0];
    >>> }
    >>>
    >>> or Java:
    >>>
    >>> String reverse(String inp)
    >>> {
    >>> if(inp.equals("")) return "";
    >>> else return reverse(inp.substr(1)) + inp.substr(0,1);
    >>> }
    >>>
    >>> ML uses a pattern-matching syntax:
    >>>
    >>> fun reverse([])=nil
    >>> | reverse(h::t) = (reverse(t))@[h];
    >>>
    >>> Microsoft already has F#, which is apparently an ML derivative for .NET.
    >>>
    >>> For its part Linux appears to have similar functional
    >>> languages OCaml, Haskell, and is working on a beta
    >>> for Erlang. All three are in Gentoo's Portage tree,
    >>> and wxhaskell is also available (presumably based on the
    >>> wxPython widget set).

    >>
    >> ML was one of the first P/Ls I was taught. SML in high school,
    >> then Moscow ML (just a different implementation) in college.
    >> It's pretty useless for most things we think of as
    >> 'applications', but good for language processing, AI,
    >> etc.
    >>
    >> ML is a nightmare to work with at a high pace. OpenGL,
    >> on the other hand, has been lots of fun. programming
    >> for GPUs makes eye candy (bugs are very visual)
    >> whereas ML is the very opposite -- CLI.

    >
    > Agreed; I was hoping wxHaskell would be an IDE, but it turns
    > out to be a set of Haskell bindings for the wx widget set.
    > Still useful, for Haskell users, I suppose; just not quite
    > what I was expecting.
    >
    > OpenGL is also a language (though not in the usual sense), and
    > quite fun to play with.
    >
    > [.sigsnip]


    You could probably embed/nest ML quite conveniently under another framework and
    do some fun GTK stuff. You could also make system calls to the ML prompt and
    play with the output, I guess. My experience with Qt is more limited, so I
    don't know if this can be conveniently achieved (more confined). Trolltech
    made some nice IDE (what would Nokia do to it, I wonder?) and I didn't know
    about Glade when I worked with GTK. MATLAB is the same in the sense that you
    could do all the UNIXy stuff usign system() calls. I've always made my
    programs Linux-oriented. Anything else was treated as 'other'.

    Does ML for Windows run as a standalone program? Or is the dreadful cmd.exe
    needed (it's quite ugly and lacks function)? I never tried it.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Software patents destroy innovation
    http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Tasks: 160 total, 2 running, 158 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
    http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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  8. Re: [News] New Free Software Project Wants Strive to Eliminate S/W Bugs

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz

    wrote
    on Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:03:07 +0000
    <3116918.ZoTPdTZZ3V@schestowitz.com>:
    >
    > ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Friday 18 July 2008 16:49 : \____
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:51:57 +0000
    >> <1725011.GhelxmuWVP@schestowitz.com>:
    >>>
    >>> ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Thursday 17 July 2008 20:41 : \____
    >>>
    >>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer
    >>>>
    >>>> wrote
    >>>> on Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:56:58 +0100
    >>>> :
    >>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Bug free software to come from EU open source Type Theory project
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Haven't they heard of ML? It's a self-proving language that's been
    >>>>> around for three decades.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Interesting language; beats me how I missed this one. ;-)
    >>>>
    >>>> While most languages would probably implement reverse() recursively as
    >>>> e.g. C++, using a substring method:
    >>>>
    >>>> std::string reverse(std::string inp)
    >>>> {
    >>>> if(inp.size() == 0) return "";
    >>>> else return reverse(inp.substr(1,inp.size() - 1)) + inp[0];
    >>>> }
    >>>>
    >>>> or Java:
    >>>>
    >>>> String reverse(String inp)
    >>>> {
    >>>> if(inp.equals("")) return "";
    >>>> else return reverse(inp.substr(1)) + inp.substr(0,1);
    >>>> }
    >>>>
    >>>> ML uses a pattern-matching syntax:
    >>>>
    >>>> fun reverse([])=nil
    >>>> | reverse(h::t) = (reverse(t))@[h];
    >>>>
    >>>> Microsoft already has F#, which is apparently an ML derivative for .NET.
    >>>>
    >>>> For its part Linux appears to have similar functional
    >>>> languages OCaml, Haskell, and is working on a beta
    >>>> for Erlang. All three are in Gentoo's Portage tree,
    >>>> and wxhaskell is also available (presumably based on the
    >>>> wxPython widget set).
    >>>
    >>> ML was one of the first P/Ls I was taught. SML in high school,
    >>> then Moscow ML (just a different implementation) in college.
    >>> It's pretty useless for most things we think of as
    >>> 'applications', but good for language processing, AI,
    >>> etc.
    >>>
    >>> ML is a nightmare to work with at a high pace. OpenGL,
    >>> on the other hand, has been lots of fun. programming
    >>> for GPUs makes eye candy (bugs are very visual)
    >>> whereas ML is the very opposite -- CLI.

    >>
    >> Agreed; I was hoping wxHaskell would be an IDE, but it turns
    >> out to be a set of Haskell bindings for the wx widget set.
    >> Still useful, for Haskell users, I suppose; just not quite
    >> what I was expecting.
    >>
    >> OpenGL is also a language (though not in the usual sense), and
    >> quite fun to play with.
    >>
    >> [.sigsnip]

    >
    > You could probably embed/nest ML quite conveniently under another
    > framework and do some fun GTK stuff. You could also make system
    > calls to the ML prompt and play with the output, I guess.
    > My experience with Qt is more limited, so I don't know if
    > this can be conveniently achieved (more confined).


    Not sure whether ML has Qt bindings on Windows. I can't
    find ML on Linux anyway, at least at the moment; Haskell
    is readily available, however.

    > Trolltech
    > made some nice IDE (what would Nokia do to it, I wonder?) and I didn't know
    > about Glade when I worked with GTK. MATLAB is the same in the sense that you
    > could do all the UNIXy stuff usign system() calls. I've always made my
    > programs Linux-oriented. Anything else was treated as 'other'.
    >
    > Does ML for Windows run as a standalone program? Or is the dreadful cmd.exe
    > needed (it's quite ugly and lacks function)? I never tried it.


    I doubt cmd.exe is ever needed, unless a .bat or other
    such file is involved (in which case it will be invoked on
    one's behalf, with the usual Windows stupidity about not
    looking deeper than the actual filename); either create a
    shortcut on one's desktop (actually, any folder will do),
    or use "Run As".

    If it needs a console, I suspect it'll open one;
    certainly Windows has AllocConsole() for just such
    a purpose, though I don't think many call it directly.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...8VS.85%29.aspx

    I frankly don't know regarding ML specifically, though.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_ML
    suggests a fair number of implementations. SML.NET (at
    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/tsg/SMLNET/ ) looks to
    be an interesting but possibly risky (patents) implementation
    of ML that compiles down to .NET's CLR. SML# also exists
    as an entirely different project produced in Japan:
    http://www.pllab.riec.tohoku.ac.jp/smlsharp/ .

    There are a fair number of open source variants of ML as well,
    and it turns out Gentoo does have MLton ('emerge mlton'
    or 'emerge mlton-bin'), which claims to have a very fast
    optimizing compiler.

    Gadzooks, two more languages to learn. ;-)

    [.sigsnip]

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #992398129:
    void f(unsigned u) { if(u < 0) ... }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

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