What sucks the most about being a Linux user? - Linux

This is a discussion on What sucks the most about being a Linux user? - Linux ; There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting. Is it: * the random freezing and hesitations? * the amateurish (cr)apps? ...

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Thread: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

  1. What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.

    Is it:

    * the random freezing and hesitations?
    * the amateurish (cr)apps?
    * the lack of games?
    * the problems with hardware detection?
    * the reduced choices in hardware?
    * the updates that break things?
    * the menu items that don't launch?
    * the constant tweaking just to keep the crapware running?
    * the way things just quit working from one day to the next?
    * the ACPI=off just so it won't randomly freeze?
    * the complete system crashes?
    * the doing without certain websites?
    * the cultish need to blame MS for your own inadequacies?
    * the 70's look of some apps?
    * the ego-deflating sub-1% marketshare?
    * the reduced job prospects?
    * the need to lie and exaggerate about Linux?
    * the need to refer to blogs as "proof"?
    * the cryptic and useless error messages ("unknown playback error")?
    * the ridiculous, inconsistent cut/copy/paste fiascos?
    * the anti-success mentality embraced by many "advocates"?
    * the widespread discrimination against women practiced by the OSS
    "community"?
    * that some vendors recommend XP on the same page they sell Linux systems?
    * that Linux is freeloaded by RedHat and Novell and Xandros, who charge
    exorbitant amounts for support?
    * the need to ignore instances of Linux being rooted and hacked?
    * resigning yourself to a veritable lifetime of Linux problems and hassles?
    * the need for mnemonics (such as "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring")
    to help you remember how to regain control of your errant crapware?
    * the really lousy office software, such as OO Calc which has 1/1024the
    capacity of Excel 2007?

    Which of these?






  2. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    DFS wrote:
    > There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    > user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.
    >


    Linux is a piece of junk just like any other O/S out there. It's a piece
    of junk due to human beings have created it. When human beings become
    perfect/infallible, which is not going to happen in anyone's lifetime,
    then anything human beings do or create will be perfect/infallible.

  3. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    DFS wrote:



    Stewie, Stewie, Stewie. You don't get it do you? No-one cares about your
    pathetic whining.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewie_Griffin



  4. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    DFS wrote:

    > There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    > user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.


    Sure, here they are:

    - Having to hear "Linux sucks" from trolls all the time. OK, this one's
    solved easily: stay out of newsgroups, or use a killfile.

    - Having to debunk the myth of poor hardware support all the time. In
    reality, over 95% of Linux installs result in a flawlessly working hardware
    setup -- printers, scanners, wireless and all. As for the remaining less
    than 5%: hardware is cheap, and if you don't mind second-hand stuff, it's
    often even free. Last week, one of my new users needed a computer screen
    (her old 15" CRT had kicked the bucket), but couldn't afford buying a new
    flat panel. So I looked around on the Dutch version of eBay, and found her
    a working 19" Iiyama CRT monitor for all of ten bucks, at just five minutes
    driving distance. And as she went and picked it up, she was given an HP
    flatbed USB scanner as well -- for free. We hooked everything up, and sure
    enough, everything worked perfectly in less than a minute.

    - Having to hear "Sorry, but we only sell machines including operating
    system" when shopping for a new laptop -- by which the sales droids mean
    that you'll get to pay for Vista, whether you like (or even use) it or not.
    Although this situation is improving rapidly now, with Asus and others
    offering excellent little laptops running Linux (as opposed to crawling w/
    Vista). But it's still a bit of a problem if you want a powerful machine.
    I guess there's some sort of industry-wide agreement to prevent offering
    users a fast, reliable product, to keep users shelling out wads of cash
    for "better, faster" products in the future. Oh yes, continuous advances in
    hardware indeed deliver ever more powerful machines -- but "advances" in
    proprietary software such as Vista more than compensate for this.

    Hope this helps, best regards,

    Richard Rasker
    --
    http://www.linetec.nl

  5. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    Richard Rasker wrote:
    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    >> user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be
    >> interesting.

    >
    > Sure, here they are:
    >
    > - Having to hear "Linux sucks" from trolls all the time. OK, this one's
    > solved easily: stay out of newsgroups, or use a killfile.


    - Watching the monopoly continually employ barriers to entry by
    discontinuing own proprietary file import support with newer office
    automation versions, new scripted language support requiring proprietary
    software for access, employing sleeper cells who insist in instilling and
    maintaining lock-in, once inside a company or Government agency.

    > - Having to debunk the myth of poor hardware support all the time. In
    > reality, over 95% of Linux installs result in a flawlessly working
    > hardware setup -- printers, scanners, wireless and all. As for the
    > remaining less than 5%: hardware is cheap, and if you don't mind
    > second-hand stuff, it's often even free. Last week, one of my new users
    > needed a computer screen (her old 15" CRT had kicked the bucket), but
    > couldn't afford buying a new flat panel. So I looked around on the Dutch
    > version of eBay, and found her a working 19" Iiyama CRT monitor for all of
    > ten bucks, at just five minutes driving distance. And as she went and
    > picked it up, she was given an HP flatbed USB scanner as well -- for free.
    > We hooked everything up, and sure enough, everything worked perfectly in
    > less than a minute


    - Side stepping the issue by continually declaring that Linux only
    supports older, "obsolete" hardware.

    > - Having to hear "Sorry, but we only sell machines including operating
    > system" when shopping for a new laptop -- by which the sales droids mean
    > that you'll get to pay for Vista, whether you like (or even use) it or
    > not. Although this situation is improving rapidly now, with Asus and
    > others offering excellent little laptops running Linux (as opposed to
    > crawling w/ Vista). But it's still a bit of a problem if you want a
    > powerful machine. I guess there's some sort of industry-wide agreement to
    > prevent offering users a fast, reliable product, to keep users shelling
    > out wads of cash for "better, faster" products in the future. Oh yes,
    > continuous advances in hardware indeed deliver ever more powerful machines
    > -- but "advances" in proprietary software such as Vista more than
    > compensate for this.


    Well, there is good news. Ever heard of Windows being installed on a
    mainframe? :-)

    Yes, it is oxymoronish to have a fast CPU slowed down to a speed
    commensurate to a slower machine with an earlier operating system. Worse
    is to listen to the Windroid drones harp on how much superior the slug is
    to more optimally efficient Linux (can you say Beryl?)

    Oh, and ....

    - Having to listen to the trash artists' drones on stability problems with
    the Linux desktop and distorted posts on problems taken grossly out of
    context.

    --
    HPT

  6. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    * Richard Rasker peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    >> user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.

    >
    > Sure, here they are:
    >
    > - Having to hear "Linux sucks" from trolls all the time.
    > - Having to debunk the myth of poor hardware support all the time.
    > - Having to hear "Sorry, but we only sell machines including operating
    > system" when shopping for a new laptop...


    Actually, I don't find anything that sucks about being a Linux user. I
    love it.

    What sucks is the time I have to spend dealing with Windows and its slow
    consoles and a paucity of easy-to-install one-stop tools.

    Luckily, a guy at work is a decent Windows user, and I can ask him which
    Windows software is decent and which is best avoided. Unfortunately
    each package is usually installed in its own directory, which means
    there's no easy way to call it from the command-line.

    --
    Peterson's Rules:
    (1) Trucks that overturn on freeways are filled with something sticky.
    (2) No cute baby in a carriage is ever a girl when called one.
    (3) Things that tick are not always clocks.
    (4) Suicide only works when you're bluffing.

  7. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    Linonut wrote:

    > Luckily, a guy at work is a decent Windows user, and I can ask him which
    > Windows software is decent and which is best avoided. Unfortunately
    > each package is usually installed in its own directory, which means
    > there's no easy way to call it from the command-line.


    - Listening to the Windroids continuously harp on how everything in Linux
    must be done through the command-line.

    --
    HPT

  8. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    * High Plains Thumper peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> Luckily, a guy at work is a decent Windows user, and I can ask him which
    >> Windows software is decent and which is best avoided. Unfortunately
    >> each package is usually installed in its own directory, which means
    >> there's no easy way to call it from the command-line.

    >
    > - Listening to the Windroids continuously harp on how everything in Linux
    > must be done through the command-line.


    The funny thing is, it is very often faster to type in the app-name
    (with auto-completion allow the name to be found with fewer keystrokes)
    and hit Enter, than it is to

    o Move to the desktop (on Windows, move all the way down to "Start")
    o Right click
    o Slide to the correct entry (worse if nested down a level or two)
    o Click

    --
    A wide-eyed, innocent UNICORN, poised delicately in a MEADOW filled
    with LILACS, LOLLIPOPS & small CHILDREN at the HUSH of twilight??

  9. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:40:51 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    > user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be
    > interesting.
    >
    > Is it:
    >
    > * the random freezing and hesitations? * the amateurish (cr)apps?
    > * the lack of games?
    > * the problems with hardware detection? * the reduced choices in
    > hardware?
    > * the updates that break things?
    > * the menu items that don't launch?
    > * the constant tweaking just to keep the crapware running? * the way
    > things just quit working from one day to the next? * the ACPI=off just
    > so it won't randomly freeze? * the complete system crashes?
    > * the doing without certain websites? * the cultish need to blame MS for
    > your own inadequacies? * the 70's look of some apps?
    > * the ego-deflating sub-1% marketshare? * the reduced job prospects?
    > * the need to lie and exaggerate about Linux? * the need to refer to
    > blogs as "proof"? * the cryptic and useless error messages ("unknown
    > playback error")? * the ridiculous, inconsistent cut/copy/paste fiascos?
    > * the anti-success mentality embraced by many "advocates"? * the
    > widespread discrimination against women practiced by the OSS
    > "community"?
    > * that some vendors recommend XP on the same page they sell Linux
    > systems? * that Linux is freeloaded by RedHat and Novell and Xandros,
    > who charge exorbitant amounts for support?
    > * the need to ignore instances of Linux being rooted and hacked? *
    > resigning yourself to a veritable lifetime of Linux problems and
    > hassles? * the need for mnemonics (such as "Raising Elephants Is So
    > Utterly Boring") to help you remember how to regain control of your
    > errant crapware? * the really lousy office software, such as OO Calc
    > which has 1/1024the capacity of Excel 2007?
    >
    > Which of these?


    Since I've experienced none of those problems, I'd have to say: not much.

  10. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    On 2008-07-11, Linonut claimed:
    > * High Plains Thumper peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> Luckily, a guy at work is a decent Windows user, and I can ask him which
    >>> Windows software is decent and which is best avoided. Unfortunately
    >>> each package is usually installed in its own directory, which means
    >>> there's no easy way to call it from the command-line.

    >>
    >> - Listening to the Windroids continuously harp on how everything in Linux
    >> must be done through the command-line.

    >
    > The funny thing is, it is very often faster to type in the app-name
    > (with auto-completion allow the name to be found with fewer keystrokes)
    > and hit Enter, than it is to
    >
    > o Move to the desktop (on Windows, move all the way down to "Start")
    > o Right click
    > o Slide to the correct entry (worse if nested down a level or two)


    o Accidentally slide outside the menu area where something is
    nested several deep and watching the nested menu disappear so
    one gets to start over again

    > o Click
    >



    --
    The brain of the average IE user. Divide by five for Outlook.
    /
    /
    ..
    ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
    http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

  11. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:40:51 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    > user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.
    >
    > Is it:
    >
    > * the random freezing and hesitations?
    > * the amateurish (cr)apps?
    > * the lack of games?
    > * the problems with hardware detection?
    > * the reduced choices in hardware?
    > * the updates that break things?
    > * the menu items that don't launch?
    > * the constant tweaking just to keep the crapware running?
    > * the way things just quit working from one day to the next?
    > * the ACPI=off just so it won't randomly freeze?
    > * the complete system crashes?
    > * the doing without certain websites?
    > * the cultish need to blame MS for your own inadequacies?
    > * the 70's look of some apps?
    > * the ego-deflating sub-1% marketshare?
    > * the reduced job prospects?
    > * the need to lie and exaggerate about Linux?
    > * the need to refer to blogs as "proof"?
    > * the cryptic and useless error messages ("unknown playback error")?
    > * the ridiculous, inconsistent cut/copy/paste fiascos?
    > * the anti-success mentality embraced by many "advocates"?
    > * the widespread discrimination against women practiced by the OSS
    > "community"?
    > * that some vendors recommend XP on the same page they sell Linux systems?
    > * that Linux is freeloaded by RedHat and Novell and Xandros, who charge
    > exorbitant amounts for support?
    > * the need to ignore instances of Linux being rooted and hacked?
    > * resigning yourself to a veritable lifetime of Linux problems and hassles?
    > * the need for mnemonics (such as "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring")
    > to help you remember how to regain control of your errant crapware?
    > * the really lousy office software, such as OO Calc which has 1/1024the
    > capacity of Excel 2007?
    >
    > Which of these?


    I would say being associated with lunatics from comp.os.linux.advocacy
    like:

    RoySchestowitz
    [Homer]
    High Plains Thumper
    Marti
    Linonut
    Phil The Dick
    Greg Shearman
    William "Filters" Poaster

    and a few other sick, paranoid, mentally ill Linux zealots.

    There is nothing worse than trying to support Linux, both by writing
    software and by advocating Linux when appropriate than being associated
    with a pack of vermin like the above.

    A person like Roy Schestowitz who posts 1000's of off topic messages per
    week to COLA and other places so that he can generate hits on his website
    and get compensated by his masters is a one stop shopping emporium for a
    wack job.

    This guy is a professional student who SPAMS this tripe 24x7.

    So the worst part of being a Linux user is the stigma of being associated
    with loony people like Roy Schestowitz.

    These people do far more harm to Linux and the Linux community than they
    will ever realize.

    If Schestowitz really cared about Linux he would spend his time in the help
    groups offering his assistance with Linux problems.
    But then he would have to do this for free and he doesn't like that idea.
    Of course he expects the others to give it up for free though.

    A typical loony Linux advocate in action.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  12. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    On 2008-07-11, DFS wrote:
    > There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    > user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.
    >
    > Is it:
    >
    > * the random freezing and hesitations?


    Nope, never seen it.

    > * the amateurish (cr)apps?


    A disputable subjective matter.

    > * the lack of games?


    I'd rather use the wii-mote.

    > * the problems with hardware detection?


    Linux works better than Windows in this area.

    > * the reduced choices in hardware?


    This is less of a problem than you make it out ot be.

    > * the updates that break things?


    Here's another one of your myths supported by miscounting the results
    of Google searches. It's much like your claims about Linux and Flash.

    > * the menu items that don't launch?


    Even if this were a problem it would still be only a minor irritant
    in comparison to what you can get with Windows.

    > * the constant tweaking just to keep the crapware running?


    More of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the way things just quit working from one day to the next?


    More of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the ACPI=off just so it won't randomly freeze?


    More of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the complete system crashes?


    More of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the doing without certain websites?


    Like which ones? Got some you can't live without.

    Name them.

    Probably more of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the cultish need to blame MS for your own inadequacies?
    > * the 70's look of some apps?


    If the look fits, don't be afaid to use it.

    > * the ego-deflating sub-1% marketshare?


    You need a really pathetic ego for this to bother you.

    > * the reduced job prospects?


    It's actually quite the opposite here in the real world.

    > * the need to lie and exaggerate about Linux?


    More of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the need to refer to blogs as "proof"?


    More of your Flash style nonsense.

    > * the cryptic and useless error messages ("unknown playback error")?


    You must be confused and thinking of Windows.

    > * the ridiculous, inconsistent cut/copy/paste fiascos?


    Do you use any Windows apps for which this would be relevant?

    > * the anti-success mentality embraced by many "advocates"?


    This is just silly.

    > * the widespread discrimination against women practiced by the OSS
    > "community"?


    Time for you to go back to high school english class.

    > * that some vendors recommend XP on the same page they sell Linux systems?


    Big fat hairy deal.

    > * that Linux is freeloaded by RedHat and Novell and Xandros, who charge
    > exorbitant amounts for support?


    Obviously you've never worked in support or needed the sort of support
    services that companies like Redhat, Novell, IBM or Oracle provide.

    > * the need to ignore instances of Linux being rooted and hacked?


    Nonsense. We will gladly point out the REAL problem.

    Edison style scare mongering doesn't do anyone any good.

    > * resigning yourself to a veritable lifetime of Linux problems and hassles?


    They've always been much less than the Windows hassles. That's why I switched.

    > * the need for mnemonics (such as "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring")
    > to help you remember how to regain control of your errant crapware?


    See previous comment about bad rhetoric.

    > * the really lousy office software, such as OO Calc which has 1/1024the
    > capacity of Excel 2007?


    Anytime you are actually able to go into this in any detail I am ALL EARS.

    I suspect that humanity will achieve faster than light travel before a
    Lemming actually manages to prove that their office suite is better than
    a hockey puck (nevermind another office suite).

    >
    > Which of these?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



    --
    If you think that an 80G disk can hold HUNDRENDS of |||
    hours of DV video then you obviously haven't used iMovie either. / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
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  13. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    In article <3FJdk.22993$LL4.16773@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
    Linonut wrote:
    > The funny thing is, it is very often faster to type in the app-name
    > (with auto-completion allow the name to be found with fewer keystrokes)
    > and hit Enter, than it is to
    >
    > o Move to the desktop (on Windows, move all the way down to "Start")
    > o Right click
    > o Slide to the correct entry (worse if nested down a level or two)
    > o Click


    Have you measured this?




    --
    --Tim Smith

  14. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > In article <3FJdk.22993$LL4.16773@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
    > Linonut wrote:
    >> The funny thing is, it is very often faster to type in the app-name
    >> (with auto-completion allow the name to be found with fewer keystrokes)
    >> and hit Enter, than it is to
    >>
    >> o Move to the desktop (on Windows, move all the way down to "Start")
    >> o Right click
    >> o Slide to the correct entry (worse if nested down a level or two)
    >> o Click

    >
    > Have you measured this?


    Only subjectively.

    But, on a Windows box, the constant need to clicky-click eventually
    worms its way into my consciousness, and then it really bugs me.

    >


    Nice little article!

    The guy who refuses to provide keyboard shortcuts is being idiot,
    though.

    I hope he at least provides test functions that he can call from a test
    framework. Unless he's one of those programmers who doesn't believe in
    unit testing, integration testing, and regression testing.

    --
    But then it's a bit odd to think that declaring something int could
    actually slow down the program, if it ended up forcing more conversions
    back to string.
    -- Larry Wall in <199708040319.UAA16213@wall.org>

  15. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    DFS wrote:

    > Is it:


    ....jealous, drooling WinTrolls oozing their slime throughout Linux
    newsgroups?

    Yes, as a matter of fact. Very perceptive of you.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  16. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS

    wrote
    on Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:40:51 -0400
    :
    > There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a Linux
    > user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be interesting.
    >
    > Is it:
    >
    > * the random freezing and hesitations?


    How specific of you. At least with my nx9010 the
    hesitations appear to be correlated with heavy disk I/O.

    > * the amateurish (cr)apps?


    You'll have to be more specific. Of course there's crap and there's
    crap; that Microsoft "ribbon" GUI looks pretty but does it serve any
    useful purpose? Ditto for compiz, actually.

    > * the lack of games?


    And what games does Linux lack? Eternal Lands is a popular MMORPG with
    a Linux client. UT2004 works fine. Quake 4 has a Linux variant,
    easily installable.

    > * the problems with hardware detection?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the reduced choices in hardware?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the updates that break things?


    Be more specific....?

    (Anyone else sensing a theme here?)

    > * the menu items that don't launch?


    Be more specific....?

    Gnome in particular gives me what I might expect:

    ERROR

    Could not launch application

    Failed to execute child process
    "stupid" (No such file or directory)

    This is of course exactly what I specified when I created the launch
    button in my Gnome panel.

    If I create ~/bin/stupid, it then works.

    > * the constant tweaking just to keep the crapware running?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the way things just quit working from one day to the next?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the ACPI=off just so it won't randomly freeze?


    That could be a problem.

    > * the complete system crashes?


    That could be a problem.
    Be more specific....?

    > * the doing without certain websites?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the cultish need to blame MS for your own inadequacies?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the 70's look of some apps?


    Ah, I see. All applications must have a modern gradated GUI with
    multicolored buttons, even ones such as text editors.

    > * the ego-deflating sub-1% marketshare?


    And this is a problem with Linux precisely...why? This might be a
    problem with the selling of Linux, certainly.

    > * the reduced job prospects?


    "Linux programmer wanted": 186
    "Windows programmer wanted": 50
    "Win32 programmer wanted": 0
    "GTK programmer wanted": 0
    "Gnome programmer wanted": 1, and it's not a job apparently
    "ActiveX programmer wanted": 0
    "Java programmer wanted": 1290
    "C# programmer wanted": 293
    "C++ programmer wanted": 1430
    "PHP programmer wanted": 5280 (!!)
    "Perl programmer wanted": 924
    "ASP programmer wanted": 872
    "VB programmer wanted": 537
    "Visual Basic programmer wanted": 10
    ".NET programmer wanted": 1760
    "XSL programmer wanted": 0
    "Qt programmer wanted": 9
    "KDE programmer wanted": 0

    Make of all this what one will.

    > * the need to lie and exaggerate about Linux?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the need to refer to blogs as "proof"?


    Nothing can prove, unless one's referring to the mathematical realm.

    > * the cryptic and useless error messages ("unknown playback error")?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the ridiculous, inconsistent cut/copy/paste fiascos?


    A legitimate complaint. Part of it is X history, part of it
    attempts in X to emulate the success of Windows and Mac.

    > * the anti-success mentality embraced by many "advocates"?


    Be more specific....?

    > * the widespread discrimination against women practiced by the OSS
    > "community"?


    Be more specific....?

    > * that some vendors recommend XP on the same page they sell Linux systems?


    Dell in particular. A legitimate complaint, but not about Linux.

    > * that Linux is freeloaded by RedHat and Novell and Xandros, who charge
    > exorbitant amounts for support?


    ?? That didn't exactly parse.

    > * the need to ignore instances of Linux being rooted and hacked?


    A legitimate complaint.

    > * resigning yourself to a veritable lifetime of Linux problems and hassles?


    I'm not resigned. Be more specific?

    > * the need for mnemonics (such as "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring")
    > to help you remember how to regain control of your errant crapware?


    As opposed to Ctrl-Alt-Delete, I suppose.

    > * the really lousy office software, such as OO Calc which has 1/1024the
    > capacity of Excel 2007?
    >
    > Which of these?
    >


    All of them, of course.

    Did you want to extol on the many fine virtues of
    Vista in your next post?

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #110309238:
    item * f(item *p) { if(p = NULL) return new item; else return p; }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  17. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:18:17 -0700, Tim Smith quoth:

    > In article <3FJdk.22993$LL4.16773@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
    > Linonut wrote:
    >> The funny thing is, it is very often faster to type in the app-name
    >> (with auto-completion allow the name to be found with fewer keystrokes)
    >> and hit Enter, than it is to
    >>
    >> o Move to the desktop (on Windows, move all the way down to "Start")
    >> o Right click
    >> o Slide to the correct entry (worse if nested down a level or two)
    >> o Click

    >
    > Have you measured this?
    >
    >


    it would be cool to see an actual summary of the research the writer
    refers to, look at how they arrived at these results.

    the Idea I go into a swoon of amnesia deliberating about writing 'ls'
    seems implausible to me on the face of it.

    Felmon

  18. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    Felmon wrote:

    > the Idea I go into a swoon of amnesia deliberating about writing 'ls'
    > seems implausible to me on the face of it.


    Yeah, that command is really hard to learn. But for the Wintroll, each
    little baby step is a grueling journey.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  19. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:11:04 -0500, RonB quoth:

    > Felmon wrote:
    >
    >> the Idea I go into a swoon of amnesia deliberating about writing 'ls'
    >> seems implausible to me on the face of it.

    >
    > Yeah, that command is really hard to learn. But for the Wintroll, each
    > little baby step is a grueling journey.


    it would be instructive to look at the referenced study. for (my) sanity's
    sake, I hope they made a _fair_ selection of test subjects. but the idea a
    people fall into a reverie considering the alternative command-line
    options seems at best to apply to complete newbies.

    I must say though it kind of makes using the command-line sound like
    almost 'stoned' fun (while mousing is 'boring'). I doubt if that was
    intended though.

    of course I suppose this research is inaccessible.

    Felmon

  20. Re: What sucks the most about being a Linux user?

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS
    >
    > wrote
    > on Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:40:51 -0400
    > :
    >> There are obviously lots of things that really suck about being a
    >> Linux user, but if you wacks could single out the top 3 it would be
    >> interesting.
    >>
    >> Is it:
    >>
    >> * the random freezing and hesitations?

    >
    > How specific of you. At least with my nx9010 the
    > hesitations appear to be correlated with heavy disk I/O.


    RedHat: "I have a PC with RedHat Linux installed...at regular times, weekly
    exactly the same time!, the PC 'freezes'? ... There's nothing I can do at
    that moment besides a hardware reboot."
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...reezes-601972/

    Debian Etch: "I installed debian etch. Ran fine for a while, then the same
    freezing problem."
    #148 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=15

    Suse 10.3: "Last few days I have been confronted with a weird behavior of my
    SUSE 10.3 system. Several time a day all of the sudden it freezes. Then I
    have to reboot ... "
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hlight=freezes

    Slackware 12.0: "Bit worrisome this. I have had two system freezes today on
    my new Slackware 12 installation."
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hlight=freezes

    Mint 4.0: "So I switched [from Gentoo] to Linux Mint 4.0 and in the last 3
    days I have had 2 system freezes."
    http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic...freezes#p67069

    PCLinuxOS: "About 4 times each day, the whole system freezes up."
    1st post at http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=35878.0

    DreamLinux: "...I clicked on PLAY for one of the sounds and the entire
    system froze."
    http://dreamlinuxforums.org/index.php/topic,1217.0.html

    Mandriva 2008: "...did a clean install of Mandriva 2008 and it has been
    freezing a lot, regardless of what i am doing."
    http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic....3a9dc185854a5a

    Sabayon: "...took 27hrs to install.....till I try to do anything......next
    thing my task bar disappears...my program selector disappears...I do
    anything....it freezes up solid.."
    http://www.sabayonlinux.org/forum/vi...freezes#p67138

    ArchLinux: "I have Asus A6M Q0050 and last three weeks I experience random
    freezes."
    http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=44765

    CentOS 5.1: "It just simply freezes."
    http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/...forumpost37948

    Ubuntu 8.04: "Hardy is BY FAR the worst Ubuntu version yet. LOCKUP
    WARNING!!! Some users, myself included, are experiencing random total
    lockups."
    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/204996

    Fedora 8: "I've been having frequent lock-ups with Fedora 8 for some days."
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/...hlight=freezes

    Puppy: "The whole system freezes after a short time."
    http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/vie...323145&t=27550





    >> * the amateurish (cr)apps?

    >
    > You'll have to be more specific. Of course there's crap and there's
    > crap; that Microsoft "ribbon" GUI looks pretty but does it serve any
    > useful purpose? Ditto for compiz, actually.


    Dia
    Kivio
    OpenOffice Base
    Gambas
    Gnome Nautilus
    Evolution
    MySQL
    RhythmBox
    Amarok
    KOffice,
    Evolution,
    Inkscape,
    cups,
    vim,
    gnucash
    ....
    ....
    ....




    >> * the lack of games?

    >
    > And what games does Linux lack? Eternal Lands is a popular MMORPG
    > with a Linux client. UT2004 works fine. Quake 4 has a Linux variant,
    > easily installable.


    Linux lacks virtually every good game in the world.



    >> * the problems with hardware detection?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    Results 1 - 10 of about 180,000 for Linux and "failed to detect".



    >> * the reduced choices in hardware?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    sound cards
    wireless cards
    graphics cards
    hard drives
    mobos
    printers
    scanners
    CD\DVD burners
    memory card readers
    mice
    joysticks



    >> * the updates that break things?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    In these 3 threads you'll find many examples of Ubuntu updates which
    completely hosed the victims' systems:

    86 pages of complaints about Feisty 7.04 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125

    65 pages of complaints about Gutsy 7.10 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=freeze

    15 pages of complaints about Hardy 8.04 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=freeze




    >> * the menu items that don't launch?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    The 4 db menu entries in my recent Debian Etch install
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...aunch_apps.png

    The 13 various entries last time I installed Knoppix

    1 System | gscanbus won't start
    2 System | i810rotate flashes and won't start
    3 System | KRandRTray won't start
    4 System | Xconsole throws error - says 'couldn't
    open console'
    5 Emulators | Bochs won't start
    6 Emulators | XTel won't start
    7 Development | KDE | KDevelop Designer won't
    start - throws a SIGSEGV fault every time.
    8 Development | KDE | KDevelop Assistante won't
    start - throws a SIGSEGV fault every time.
    9 Development | Monodoc (http) won't start
    10 Games | Adventure | Falcon's Eye won't start -
    flashes and back to the desktop
    11 Lost & Found | E-Gnome won't start
    12 Lost & Found | xfce calendar won't start
    13 KANOTIX | Network/Internet | My PPP conf won't
    start

    Course, that was a year ago and everything is fixed in the latest release...



    >> * the constant tweaking just to keep the crapware running?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    Just ask any cola "advocate" about the daily hassles of Linux.



    >> * the way things just quit working from one day to the next?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    ml2mst: "I've been working with SUSE since 1998, but for some mysterious
    reason, it simply stopped working a couple of months ago."
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....78b83a1137b1f5

    kernel developers just quit working: "Then I quit forever."
    http://apcmag.com/interview_with_con...he_desktop.htm

    Samba just quits working: "Then some of this suddenly stopped working."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-49548.html

    Samba just quits working: "My computer just stopped sharing its folder
    (which had worked perfectly) one day"
    http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-49548.html

    keyboard just quits working: "While entering data in Krecipes package
    keyboard quit inputing characters"
    http://forums.cnet.com/5208-6617_102...sageID=2615582

    keyboard just quits working: "..the keyboard would work for awhile and then
    just quit."
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/..._this_notebook

    yum just quits working: "this has worked for about four months and today it
    has stopped working."
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archiv.../t-119325.html

    network just quits working: "I noticed some times my network will just quit
    working and won't reconnect even if i plug it into a cable nothing works and
    I have to reboot."
    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/152456

    wireless just quits working: "Wireless connection just quits working.
    Windows will connect just fine."
    http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/lo...hp/t33604.html

    DNS just quits working: "...DNS has just quit working."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=243482

    printing just quits working: "...printnig would just quit working for all
    apps..."
    http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/deb...underbird.html

    audio player just quits working: "... the Audio Player program just quit
    working one day and hasn't worked since."
    http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=14453

    PCMCIA card just quits working: "...one day, the connection simply quit
    working."..."The card works fine in win98se, and I have no problems
    connecting to our router, which is a USR8054."
    http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26032

    graphics just quit working: "When the WU restarted the graphics window did
    not come back."
    http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/forum_thread.php?id=468

    sound just quits working: "I was watching a movie in movie player and the
    right sound channel cut out. Then about 10 seconds later, the left cut out.
    I rebooted and still no sound. My sound is turned up all the way too. I'm
    not sure what I will do. Reinstall something I guess."
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=342041

    Linuxconf just quits working: "Does Linuxconf actually work? When I use it,
    it tends to mess up my config files (at least for Apache) and always tell me
    some process is taking too long. Sometimes it seems to just quit on me."
    http://rasterweb.net/raster/computers/linux.html

    Mandriva 2006 just quits working: "My Mandriva2006 just quit working !"
    http://dunedin.lug.net.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=42838






    >> * the ACPI=off just so it won't randomly freeze?

    >
    > That could be a problem.


    could be/is/

    Results 1 - 10 of about 137,000 for Linux and "ACPI=off".

    Also in these 3 threads you'll various examples of victims having to set
    ACPI=off to reduce random freezing:

    86 pages of complaints about Feisty 7.04 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125

    65 pages of complaints about Gutsy 7.10 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=freeze

    15 pages of complaints about Hardy 8.04 freezing up
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=freeze




    >> * the complete system crashes?

    >
    > That could be a problem.
    > Be more specific....?


    "With KDE 4, I actually saw complete system crashes."
    http://practical-tech.com/operating-...ust-plain-bad/

    Random kernel panics on boot
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=826279



    >> * the doing without certain websites?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    TAB mentioned one the other day - Toyota financial I think it was.


    >> * the cultish need to blame MS for your own inadequacies?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    The entire history of cola "advocacy"




    >> * the 70's look of some apps?

    >
    > Ah, I see. All applications must have a modern gradated GUI with
    > multicolored buttons, even ones such as text editors.


    Anything's better than
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/That_70s_Show.png
    or
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/Debian_eyecandy.png

    (I have to fess up - I somewhat enjoy using Midnight Commander because it's
    quick)



    >> * the ego-deflating sub-1% marketshare?

    >
    > And this is a problem with Linux precisely...why?
    > This might be a problem with the selling of Linux, certainly.


    Because it leads to...

    >> * the reduced job prospects?

    >
    > "Linux programmer wanted": 186
    > "Windows programmer wanted": 50
    > "Win32 programmer wanted": 0
    > "GTK programmer wanted": 0
    > "Gnome programmer wanted": 1, and it's not a job apparently
    > "ActiveX programmer wanted": 0
    > "Java programmer wanted": 1290
    > "C# programmer wanted": 293
    > "C++ programmer wanted": 1430
    > "PHP programmer wanted": 5280 (!!)
    > "Perl programmer wanted": 924
    > "ASP programmer wanted": 872
    > "VB programmer wanted": 537
    > "Visual Basic programmer wanted": 10
    > ".NET programmer wanted": 1760
    > "XSL programmer wanted": 0
    > "Qt programmer wanted": 9
    > "KDE programmer wanted": 0
    >
    > Make of all this what one will.


    196 jobs were Linux-specific (Linux, Gnome, Qt)
    3522 were Windows-specific (Windows, C#, ASP, VB, VB, .NET)
    35:1 ratio is what I'll make of it.


    >> * the need to lie and exaggerate about Linux?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    The entire history of cola "advocacy"



    >> * the need to refer to blogs as "proof"?

    >
    > Nothing can prove, unless one's referring to the mathematical realm.


    Spamowitz seems to think blogs (including his own) lend proof to his
    psychotic bull****.




    >> * the cryptic and useless error messages ("unknown playback error")?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    How? That's the entire error message
    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...hmbox_slop.png



    >> * the ridiculous, inconsistent cut/copy/paste fiascos?

    >
    > A legitimate complaint. Part of it is X history, part of it
    > attempts in X to emulate the success of Windows and Mac.


    Linux just works!



    >> * the anti-success mentality embraced by many "advocates"?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    Homer
    Spamowitz
    7
    Ghost
    Andrew Halliwell
    Richard Rasker
    Gidget




    >> * the widespread discrimination against women practiced by the OSS
    >> "community"?

    >
    > Be more specific....?


    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...rimination.jpg




    >> * that some vendors recommend XP on the same page they sell Linux
    >> systems?

    >
    > Dell in particular. A legitimate complaint, but not about Linux.


    http://www.acer.co.th/product/travel...00/index_p.htm



    >> * that Linux is freeloaded by RedHat and Novell and Xandros, who
    >> charge exorbitant amounts for support?

    >
    > ?? That didn't exactly parse.


    Low or unpaid crapware developers write GPL code. RedHat, Novell and
    Xandros sell it for outrageous amounts, while the crapware developers aren't
    remunerated.



    >> * the need to ignore instances of Linux being rooted and hacked?

    >
    > A legitimate complaint.


    "Linux is secure." (period)



    >> * resigning yourself to a veritable lifetime of Linux problems and
    >> hassles?

    >
    > I'm not resigned. Be more specific?


    You are resigned, but you've conditioned yourself to expect Linux hassles.



    >> * the need for mnemonics (such as "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly
    >> Boring") to help you remember how to regain control of your errant
    >> crapware?

    >
    > As opposed to Ctrl-Alt-Delete, I suppose.


    Not the same.



    >> * the really lousy office software, such as OO Calc which has
    >> 1/1024the capacity of Excel 2007?
    >>
    >> Which of these?
    >>

    >
    > All of them, of course.


    I just want your Top 3.



    > Did you want to extol on the many fine virtues of
    > Vista in your next post?


    Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_Search#Search






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