Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent???? - Linux

This is a discussion on Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent???? - Linux ; "thufir" stated in post qNVdk.64040$kx.60066@pd7urf3no on 7/11/08 8:45 PM: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:36:47 +0200, Hadron wrote: > >>> What, do you really need a list? Even with such a list, all you would >>> reply with would ...

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Thread: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

  1. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    "thufir" stated in post
    qNVdk.64040$kx.60066@pd7urf3no on 7/11/08 8:45 PM:

    > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:36:47 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >>> What, do you really need a list? Even with such a list, all you would
    >>> reply with would be to babble on about how your students can't figure
    >>> out how to open a folder.

    > [...]
    >> You seem determined not to answer the question. I guess you are an
    >> "advocate" rather than an advocate.

    >
    >
    > It wasn't a genuine question.


    Sure it is. I asked a question. You dodged. Again, you said:

    Linux is great, it's the better mousetrap.

    And I asked you:

    I am not disagreeing - bit what do you think Linux offers
    over other common alternatives ... other than price?

    And you have not been able to name *single* thing. Not one.

    This says a lot about your ability to advocate for Linux - you cannot.
    >>
    >> I am not disagreeing - bit what do you think Linux offers over other
    >> common alternatives ... other than price?


    > Consider that Snit claims to be a Linux advocate. If so, why ask me to
    > advocate Linux? Nor is it a general discussion.
    >
    > Any response to Snit simply results in his babbling about how his
    > "students" can't figure out the file/folder relationship and his claim
    > that the Mac UI is superior.


    You keep repeating this lie of yours... and yet you cannot find a post from
    me *ever* where I said my students had any unusual difficulty with files and
    folders. You simply made that up. You are a liar.

    --
    Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.


  2. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    "thufir" stated in post
    oOVdk.93321$gc5.80832@pd7urf2no on 7/11/08 8:46 PM:

    > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:47:34 -0700, Snit wrote:
    >
    >
    >> He babbled about Mac (Macs! What? Not even a part of the subject!) and
    >> then lies about my students.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Any thread which threatens to be substantive is quickly derailed by your
    > mac advocacy idiocy.


    I did not mention the Mac. I asked a question. You dodged. Again, you
    said:

    Linux is great, it's the better mousetrap.

    And I asked you:

    I am not disagreeing - bit what do you think Linux offers
    over other common alternatives ... other than price?

    And you have not been able to name *single* thing. Not one.

    This says a lot about your ability to advocate for Linux - you cannot.


    --
    "If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson




  3. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:52:27 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>> But according to COLA, Linux is better than Windows.
    >>>>
    >>> It is.

    >>
    >> So then why do people in China buy cheap Linux systems and wipe Linux
    >> and install pirated Windows?

    >
    > I don't give a **** about people in china, you, or anyone else. Linux is
    > better than windows.
    >
    > I don't give a toss about your fictional "people" who "hate" it either.


    The only ones that "hate linux" are the dumb wintrolls who can't get it
    working properly.

    --
    Why don't you smegging-well smeg off,
    you annoying little smeggy smegging smegger!
    --Rimmer to dispensing machine--
    "Only the Good" -- Red Dwarf

  4. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > The truth is, people HATE Linux.
    >

    That is surely completely wrong.
    You will find extremely few people hating Linux.
    They just don't care.

    Laszlo


  5. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    William Poaster wrote:

    > The only ones that "hate linux" are the dumb wintrolls who can't get it
    > working properly.
    >

    not even.
    They just leave it and return to theit favourite OS.

    The only *few* people who *hate* an OS are the Linux fundamentalists.
    They need that hate to feel good.

    Laszlo

  6. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On Jul 12, 9:46 pm, Lazlo Lebrun wrote:
    > William Poaster wrote:
    > > The only ones that "hate linux" are the dumb wintrolls who can't get it
    > > working properly.

    >
    > not even.
    > They just leave it and return to theit favourite OS.
    >
    > The only *few* people who *hate* an OS are the Linux fundamentalists.
    > They need that hate to feel good.


    There are a few, especially certain posters on this COLA newsgroup,
    who seem to truly, rabidly, and aggressively hate/fear/loath Linux.
    In most cases, I have discovered, by reading their entire chain of
    posts, or e-mails they have sent directly to me, that they have
    economic intrests that are totally dependent on the success of
    Windows, especially Windows client, and often Windows servers.

    DFS makes his living as a consultant, writing Visual Basic interfaces
    to Microsoft SQL Server, he makes a good living at it, but each time
    he bids on a contract, he has to hope that the client isn't swayed by
    an OSS consultant who is willing to create a PHP interface to a MySQL
    database.

    Drestin Black was a key player in the effort to move hotmail entirely
    off of BSD servers and onto IIS and Exchange Back-Office servers. To
    my knowledge his efforts were unsuccessful, and I have not heard from
    him since.

    Flatfish was also a Windows consultant, who also made a substantial
    living based on his ability to write custom Windows fat-client
    applications that connected to Windows server applications.

    Erik Funkenbusch has a very deep knowledge of the Windows kernel,
    along with several other technology standards which are protected by
    strict Microsoft nondisclosure agreements and other license
    restrictions. He could get such knowledge as either a Microsoft
    employee or as a consultant working for Microsoft. Such knowledge
    would also mean that his economic value depends on his unique
    knowledge of the intimate workings of Microsoft's infrastructure
    products.

    Others such as Moshe Goldfarb seem to give very little clue as to
    their economic interests, and may not even be working for a living.
    They just seem to take great delight in making derogatory remarks
    about Linux, Open Source (or Open Sores as they would call it), and
    seem to have little actual experience with Linux. Still, they are
    quite willing to demonstrate their ignorance on this newsgroup. They
    suffer from "contempt prior to investigation" which is a sure-fire way
    to assure that one remains in perpetual ignorance of the subject held
    in contempt. They remind me of the Dr Suess book "Green Eggs and
    Ham", they just haven't tried them yet.

    This group also has a long history (over 12 years) of members who
    joined the group as WinTrolls, rabidly hating Linux, only to become
    Linux zealots when they actually had the experience of using a fully
    functional version of Linux with a complete suite of Open Source
    applications, all configured properly for their system, and using that
    system at least 4 hours/day for at least 90 days.

    There are many many many many posters in this newsgroup who don't use
    Linux exclusively, or even all the time, and often use Windows as
    either a primary or secondary operating system (including myself) who
    would like to be able to use Linux more of the time, and Windows less
    of the time, than we currently do.

    Ironically, I also know of several people who do use Linux
    exclusively, who are so busy with their $250,000/year jobs that they
    don't even have time to call me on the phone anymore (Fan Ying, are
    you listening? :-).

    Every few months I get another phone call from my dad, who is so
    frustrated with Windows that he is ready to install Linux again.
    Unfortunately he is a big fan of Quicken and doesn't want to create
    his own accounting system using Base. I can't blame him, he's in his
    late 70s, he's retired, he does accounting as a volunteer, and
    prepares taxes on a freelance basis. He's been an accountant for
    almost 55 years. He has a wide variety of interests and just doesn't
    want to spend 40-50 hours/month for 3-4 months trying to figure out
    how to convert a standard "Base" database schema into a full suite of
    IRS filing forms. There are accountants who have done this, and they
    give away the software for the accounting, which they then use to
    generate the IRS forms using their own reports scripts, they usually
    charge an annual fee for the database and filing as a package. Some
    of them have very sophisticated sets, and can handle large corporate
    accounts, including IRS, SEC, and other regulatory agency and and
    state tax and equities filing requirements.

    > Laszlo



  7. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:18:09 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    >> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >>>>> But according to COLA, Linux is better than Windows.
    >>>>>
    >>>> It is.
    >>>
    >>> So then why do people in China buy cheap Linux systems and wipe
    >>> Linux and install pirated Windows?

    >>
    >> I don't give a **** about people in china, you, or anyone else.

    >
    > You're so tough sailor.
    >
    >
    >> Linux is better than windows.

    >
    > Linux is 3rd rate crapware, free because it has to be.
    >
    > Windows and commercial code provides a far better computing experience:
    > better apps, better games, more software, more hardware, more speed, better
    > looking, better fonts, etc.
    >
    > Ubuntu\OpenOffice\gnucash\Gambas\MySQL\Nexuiz ($0)
    >
    >
    > Vista Home Premium\Office Pro\Quicken\Visual Studio Express\SQL Server
    > Dev\BioShock (~$475)
    >
    > It's no contest.
    >
    >
    >
    >> I don't give a toss about your fictional "people" who "hate" it
    >> either.

    >
    > Not hate. HATE.
    >
    > But it's not all bad news: only 99.2% seem to HATE it.


    Well stated DFS...

    Notice how the Linux Loons resort to the typical "I don't care if xxx yyy
    zzz doesn't like Linux because I like Linux"....

    Fine, so why do they start flapping their lips about Linux taking over if
    they don't care?

    It seems they only don't care when they get bitch slapped which is 99.2
    percent of the time.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  8. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:43:51 +0200, Lazlo Lebrun wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> The truth is, people HATE Linux.
    >>

    > That is surely completely wrong.
    > You will find extremely few people hating Linux.
    > They just don't care.
    >
    > Laszlo


    Yea, bad choice of words.....
    Let's put it this way, when a noob wastes a week or more trying to make
    Linux fit into what her Windows system was already doing and can't they
    tend to get pissed.

    I've seen it 100 times....

    The usual comment is "Linux sucks"....

    People try Linux because they are looking for FREE....
    They dump Linux just as quickly because they soon discover that
    FREE=Sucks... (For average Jane type stuff, not server geek stuff)

    That's it in a nutshell.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  9. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > Notice how the Linux Loons resort to the typical "I don't care if xxx
    > yyy zzz doesn't like Linux because I like Linux"....


    I call it linimization. Suddenly some issue (eg spreadsheet charts or
    database front-ends) isn't important because Linux doesn't do it well.



    > Fine, so why do they start flapping their lips about Linux taking
    > over if they don't care?


    Left side of cola nuts' mouths: Large number of users doesn't mean Windows
    is any good

    Right side of cola nuts' mouths: Linux deployed to 52,000,000 in
    Brazil! Has 12% of the market worldwide!



    > It seems they only don't care when they get bitch slapped which is
    > 99.2 percent of the time.


    ha!!! You can just imagine their heads snapping back and forth with the
    pummeling they take for years on end...




  10. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On 2008-07-12, Lazlo Lebrun wrote:
    > William Poaster wrote:
    >
    >> The only ones that "hate linux" are the dumb wintrolls who can't get it
    >> working properly.
    >>

    > not even.
    > They just leave it and return to theit favourite OS.
    >
    > The only *few* people who *hate* an OS are the Linux fundamentalists.
    > They need that hate to feel good.


    I have no problem with any product or company that doesn't try to
    interfere in my right to choose what is best for me rather than the herd.


    --

    The social cost of suing/prosecuting individuals |||
    for non-commercial copyright infringement far outweighs / | \
    the social value of copyright to begin with.



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  11. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On 2008-07-12, DFS wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    >
    >> Notice how the Linux Loons resort to the typical "I don't care if xxx
    >> yyy zzz doesn't like Linux because I like Linux"....


    That is the essence of choice in a free market.

    >
    > I call it linimization. Suddenly some issue (eg spreadsheet charts or
    > database front-ends) isn't important because Linux doesn't do it well.


    If you would like to cite a genuine issue rather than vague rhetoric
    then by all means do so.

    [deletia]

    The charting UI in excel is one of the reasons I prefer OO and
    have used it for quite a number of years even under Windows as an
    MS alternative.

    --

    The social cost of suing/prosecuting individuals |||
    for non-commercial copyright infringement far outweighs / | \
    the social value of copyright to begin with.



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    ----------------------------------------------------------
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  12. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    On Jul 13, 2:08 am, "DFS" wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
    > > Notice how the Linux Loons resort to the typical "I don't care if xxx
    > > yyy zzz doesn't like Linux because I like Linux"....

    >
    > I call it linimization. Suddenly some issue (eg spreadsheet charts or
    > database front-ends) isn't important because Linux doesn't do it well.


    Perhaps it's more like Linux does it differently.

    Free and competitive markets evolve, competition forces industry
    leaders to introduce innovations that they would otherwise not bother
    to release.

    When AT&T owned the telephone monopoly, the end user interface
    (Telephone) changed very little for over 40 years. You had a few
    minor innovations like touch-tone dialing, but even that was only
    because AT&T could charge an extra $8 per month, back when the minimum
    wage was $1.25/hour, and the median income was less than $8,000 per
    year.

    But when MCI won court orders which forced AT&T to allow MCI to
    connect, there was real competition and suddenly AT&T began
    agressively addressing this competition, working to accomodate 3rd
    party vendors of Long Distance services in a manner that would still
    remain profitable for the AT&T Infrastructure. Very quickly, AT&T
    changed the interface at the switching office to protocols that let
    them put 24 lines on a single pair of wires.

    After divestature, the competition heated up even more, and soon MCI,
    Sprint, and about a dozen other companies were offering services and
    features that were previously unheard of. Prior to divestature, you
    were limited to 300 baud because you had to use an acoustic coupler,
    you put the handset into a speaker and microphone that passed the
    information very slowly.

    After divestiture, the modems went from 300 baud to 1200 baud, and
    very quickly to 4800 baud, then 9600 baud, and eventually to as high
    as 56 kbaud, and even higher with compression.

    > > Fine, so why do they start flapping their lips about Linux taking
    > > over if they don't care?

    >
    > Left side of cola nuts' mouths: Large number of users doesn't mean Windows
    > is any good


    When AT&T accepted divestiture, most people had very negative feelings
    about "Ma Bell", jokes like "Ma Bell is a mother...", and Lily
    Tomlin's "Ernestine" the very rude phone operator/extortionist, were
    funny, because people identified with the sentiment, since many had
    been threatened by the phone company - who knew that you really didn't
    have a choice. Lenny Bruce once said "If you get too hot with the
    phone company, you end up with two dixie cups and a thread".

    Prior to divestiture, CB radios were used by those who wanted to know
    road conditions, traffic jams, and other information, especially
    information that was critical to truckers and other professional
    drivers. After divestiture, cellular phones have become pervasive,
    and even people who don't have their own home phones have cell
    phones. In some countries, cellular service is available where wire
    service is not available. Aggressive competition between carriers has
    resulted in a wide variety of services, including download of music,
    videos, and even GPS with real-time traffic reports.

    > Right side of cola nuts' mouths: Linux deployed to 52,000,000 in
    > Brazil! Has 12% of the market worldwide!
    >
    > > It seems they only don't care when they get bitch slapped which is
    > > 99.2 percent of the time.

    >
    > ha!!! You can just imagine their heads snapping back and forth with the
    > pummeling they take for years on end...


    WinTrolls love to point at flawed surveys based on technology which
    isn't even capable of counting 90% of the Linux systems, and then howl
    with glee at their 99.7% market share. They look at the license
    counts vs the PC shipments and howl with glee at the 120% "windows"
    market share. At the same time, they try to ignore or discount
    completely the impact that Linux has had on the marketplace.

    True, there are very few PCs sold with Linux pre-installed as the sole
    operating system. On the other hand, Linux has brought us TiVo (and
    many other DVRs), it has brought us VOIP, it has brought us WiFi, it
    brought us secure firewall/routers at prices affordable to home users
    with limited income, it has brought us google, e-bay, firefox,
    thunderbird, and OpenOffice. It brought the first low-cost web
    servers, and the first low-cost web browsers. It popularized SGML,
    then HTML, then XML. It was a key market for Java, and it's "write
    once, run anywhere" strategy.

    Microsoft has introduced many "innovations" to Windows, which were
    already widely deployed on all Linux distributions, often years, even
    a decade, before Microsoft offered their corrupted versions. Linux
    had CORBA, Microsoft introduced a lobotomized DCOM. Linux offered
    CORBA extensions to Netscape, and Microsoft introduced ActiveX. Linux
    offered cascading menus, tool bars, and quick start functions years
    before Microsoft introduced lobotomized versions. Linux/Unix offered
    IRC long before Microsoft came out with Instant Messenger. Linux
    offered e-mail back when Windows could barely handle file sharing.
    Linux offered Plug-and-play to a variety of hardware backplanes almost
    18 months before Microsoft offered their "PCI -only" version of plug-
    and-play. Linux had PAM and LDAP authentication back in 1994,
    Microsoft didn't offer Active Directory until around 2001 with XP.
    Even then, they couldn't adhere to the LDAP/Kerberos standard and had
    to stick in their own proprietary hooks..

    Historically, Linux/Unix has created industry standards, and Microsoft
    has done everything in it's power to corrupt those standards. It's
    part of their strategy to protect their monopoly.

    And most of Microsoft's "hooks" have resulted in security problems.

    DHCP made it impossible to trace hackers back to their origins.

    ActiveX made it impossible to block malware with firewalls and other
    security measures.

    Active Directory made it impossible to preserve privacy and security
    against Certificate Authority comprimises.

    Microsoft's XML encourages passing of binary objects that can't be
    validated for security.

    Microsoft's "office" suite is notorious for it's ability to pass
    viruses and other malware.

    But because Microsoft has contracts with Dell, Lenovo, HP, Acer, and
    the other OEMs that make up the "top 10" OEMs, that require them to
    install Windows, only Windows and nothing but Windows (aka Vista), if
    the machine is sold with a hard drive, 99.7% of those computers sold
    by those OEMs are sold with Windows preinstalled. This is supposed to
    imply that Windows is vastly superior to Linux.

    The OEMs have attempted to offer Linux based offerings, but the
    Microsoft imposed restrictions are quite prohibitive. Typically, to
    get the Linux PC, you have to order in quantities, you void
    warranties, and you don't get great support from the OEM. Even
    getting accurate configuration information to order a "Linux ready"
    machine is normally beyond the scope and training of most of the Dell
    telephone operators.

    What is phenominal is that there are as many Linux users as there seem
    to be. When you figure that some surveys (still undercount Linux)
    that show Linux at 3%, 5%, or even 10% of the total installed base -
    which equates to 30 million, 50 million, or 100 million Linux users,
    most of whom have had to install Linux themselves, have had to dig up
    their own information, and have had to do their own research on what
    hardware makes a PC "Linux Ready", and that the competition has a
    virtual lock on the OEM distribution channel, it's a testament to the
    quality of Linux that so many people are willing to go to so much
    extra effort.

    If people had to take their car to a special mechanic, or replace the
    standard transmission with an automatic transmission themselves,
    because the car maker wouldn't install automatic transmissions, how
    many people would be driving cars with automatic transmissions?

    If people could only get the AT&T rotary phone in the retail store,
    and any store that attempted to display any other phone would lose
    it's "license" to sell any phones at all, how many people would be
    buying touch-tone phones, or wireless phones, or even phones from GE
    and Panisonic?

    If people could only get cars that ran on high-sulfer leaded gasoline
    that pumped all kinds of pollution in the air, and that was the only
    kind of gas you could buy, how many people would drive cars that ran
    on unleaded gasoline?

    Given all of the barriers to entry that Linux has had to overcome, and
    all of the $billions Microsoft has spent trying to prevent the
    proliferation of Linux, the fact that Linux users are purchasing or
    downloading about 1 million Linux licenses per DAY is truly
    phenomenal. Many don't know they are buying Linux. They are buying
    an HDTV, a D-link router, a VOIP phone, a smart-phone, a mini laptop,
    a cash register, or credit card reader. They buy Linux in
    "Appliances" that do much of the work that Linux on PCs used to do,
    but on hardware costing a fraction of the price. I can buy a laptop
    and run Linux on it for about $1,000. I can get a Linksys router for
    about $40..


  13. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    *stifling yawn*

    ....what a windbag, that Moshe...

  14. Re: Will Linux EVER hit 1 percent????

    blloco wrote:
    > *stifling yawn*
    >
    > ...what a windbag, that Moshe...


    Yet, so very truthful, that Moshe...



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