Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot - Linux

This is a discussion on Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot - Linux ; On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:51:30 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote: > On 2008-07-01, Rick wrote: >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:55:34 -0400, Linonut wrote: >> >>> * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo: >>> >>>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 ...

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Thread: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

  1. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:51:30 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:

    > On 2008-07-01, Rick wrote:
    >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:55:34 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:36:42 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * core dump peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I have no need for gnome-pilot, so trying to remove it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Use aptitude. It has a lot more options, including marking package
    >>>>> a being manually installed. I'm guessing you can do that, and do
    >>>>>
    >>>>> $ locate gnome-pilot
    >>>>>
    >>>>> to find out what you should delete manually to free up some space on
    >>>>> your obviously cramped system.
    >>>>
    >>>> Removing gnome-pilot will remove Ubuntu desktop. Installing Ubuntu
    >>>> desktop will install gnome-pilot. It is a reported bug.
    >>>
    >>> Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work
    >>> around that bug.

    >>
    >> Not according to what I have been able to find, unfortunately.

    >
    > ...sounds like the "bug" is in the "data".
    >
    > Apt is just doing what it's supposed to do.


    Yes, it seems apt is doing what it is told to do.



    --
    Rick

  2. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:37:25 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Rick writes:
    >
    >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:29:46 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-07-01, Rick wrote:
    >>>>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 08:39:05 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2008-07-01, DFS wrote:
    >>>>>>> core dump wrote:
    >>>>>>>> I have no need for gnome-pilot, so trying to remove it.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Add/remove tells me to use synaptic instead due to dependencies.
    >>>>>>>> Synaptic informs me it will also remove Ubuntu desktop! so to
    >>>>>>>> uninstall a small component requires me to destroy loads of other
    >>>>>>>> stuff. Great!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I didn't know Synaptic had such a cool feature...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ...if it didn't do something like this, people like you would whine
    >>>>>> when the removed functionality didn't work automagically at some
    >>>>>> point in the future.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Yeah, Ubuntu thinks that pilot support is a necessary component
    >>>>>> of the desktop...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It seems that gnome-pilot is tied to Ubuntu desktop, which is
    >>>>> required to do updates. Apparently gnome-pilot and Ubuntu desktop
    >>>>> can both be removed without system harm, except that ability to
    >>>>> update is missing. Re-install Ubuntu desktop, and gnome-pilot gets
    >>>>> installed. I learned this from a bug report in the Ubuntu forums. I
    >>>>> posted the bug number in another message/ thread.
    >>>>
    >>>> I would imagine there is a whole lot of stuff tied to
    >>>> ubuntu-desktop
    >>>> and not just gnome-pilot. I guess the real question is what is and
    >>>> what is not appropriate.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Did you work that out all by yourself?
    >>>
    >>> Wow!
    >>>
    >>> Jeb has suggested that people should consider "dependencies".
    >>>
    >>> LOL. What a load of hot air!
    >>>
    >>> Hint : people know.

    >>
    >> Onservation: you didn't help provide an information about the bug, did
    >> you?

    >
    > I know what the bug is. I used Ubuntu. It happens all the time. It's
    > simply yet another f*cked up dependency. It happens. You had already
    > pointed this out. Why would I do it again or do what Jeb did?


    So, you waited for me to post the information?

    (snip)
    --
    Rick

  3. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    JEDIDIAH writes:

    > On 2008-07-01, Rick wrote:
    >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:55:34 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:36:42 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * core dump peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I have no need for gnome-pilot, so trying to remove it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Use aptitude. It has a lot more options, including marking package a
    >>>>> being manually installed. I'm guessing you can do that, and do
    >>>>>
    >>>>> $ locate gnome-pilot
    >>>>>
    >>>>> to find out what you should delete manually to free up some space on
    >>>>> your obviously cramped system.
    >>>>
    >>>> Removing gnome-pilot will remove Ubuntu desktop. Installing Ubuntu
    >>>> desktop will install gnome-pilot. It is a reported bug.
    >>>
    >>> Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work around
    >>> that bug.

    >>
    >> Not according to what I have been able to find, unfortunately.

    >
    > ...sounds like the "bug" is in the "data".
    >
    > Apt is just doing what it's supposed to do.


    LOL. Yes ..... Did you work that out all on your own? It's part of the
    dependencies coded into the packages.

    --
    BOY is Microsoft doomed! LOL!
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  4. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    Rick writes:

    > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:37:25 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Rick writes:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:29:46 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-07-01, Rick wrote:
    >>>>>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 08:39:05 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2008-07-01, DFS wrote:
    >>>>>>>> core dump wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> I have no need for gnome-pilot, so trying to remove it.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Add/remove tells me to use synaptic instead due to dependencies.
    >>>>>>>>> Synaptic informs me it will also remove Ubuntu desktop! so to
    >>>>>>>>> uninstall a small component requires me to destroy loads of other
    >>>>>>>>> stuff. Great!
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> I didn't know Synaptic had such a cool feature...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> ...if it didn't do something like this, people like you would whine
    >>>>>>> when the removed functionality didn't work automagically at some
    >>>>>>> point in the future.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yeah, Ubuntu thinks that pilot support is a necessary component
    >>>>>>> of the desktop...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It seems that gnome-pilot is tied to Ubuntu desktop, which is
    >>>>>> required to do updates. Apparently gnome-pilot and Ubuntu desktop
    >>>>>> can both be removed without system harm, except that ability to
    >>>>>> update is missing. Re-install Ubuntu desktop, and gnome-pilot gets
    >>>>>> installed. I learned this from a bug report in the Ubuntu forums. I
    >>>>>> posted the bug number in another message/ thread.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I would imagine there is a whole lot of stuff tied to
    >>>>> ubuntu-desktop
    >>>>> and not just gnome-pilot. I guess the real question is what is and
    >>>>> what is not appropriate.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Did you work that out all by yourself?
    >>>>
    >>>> Wow!
    >>>>
    >>>> Jeb has suggested that people should consider "dependencies".
    >>>>
    >>>> LOL. What a load of hot air!
    >>>>
    >>>> Hint : people know.
    >>>
    >>> Onservation: you didn't help provide an information about the bug, did
    >>> you?

    >>
    >> I know what the bug is. I used Ubuntu. It happens all the time. It's
    >> simply yet another f*cked up dependency. It happens. You had already
    >> pointed this out. Why would I do it again or do what Jeb did?

    >
    > So, you waited for me to post the information?
    >
    > (snip)


    Err no. Why do you think that? I saw you had posted it. As you noted its
    very well documented in Google anyway. Its nothing special.

    --
    BOY is Microsoft doomed! LOL!
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  5. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:46:54 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:55:34 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Removing gnome-pilot will remove Ubuntu desktop. Installing Ubuntu
    >>>>> desktop will install gnome-pilot. It is a reported bug.
    >>>>
    >>>> Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work
    >>>> around that bug.
    >>>
    >>> Not according to what I have been able to find, unfortunately.

    >>
    >> I wonder what would happen if he simply deleted the file. Probably
    >> would come back during the next update.

    >
    > "simply deleted the file" - generally not a good idea.


    Why not? I've done with (effectively) with slrn. I link
    "/usr/bin/slrn" to the old version of slrn I installed (from source
    code) in /usr/local/bin, because the new version(s) have problems.

    Then, when I upgrade (and forget about) slrn, I have to delete the newly
    installed version and re-make the link.

    You are correct about the "generally not a good idea", of course, Rick.

    --
    Ask not what's inside your head, but what your head's inside of.
    -- J. J. Gibson

  6. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    On 2008-07-01, Linonut claimed:
    > * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:36:42 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * core dump peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> I have no need for gnome-pilot, so trying to remove it.
    >>>
    >>> Use aptitude. It has a lot more options, including marking package a
    >>> being manually installed. I'm guessing you can do that, and do
    >>>
    >>> $ locate gnome-pilot
    >>>
    >>> to find out what you should delete manually to free up some space on
    >>> your obviously cramped system.

    >>
    >> Removing gnome-pilot will remove Ubuntu desktop. Installing Ubuntu
    >> desktop will install gnome-pilot. It is a reported bug.

    >
    > Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work around
    > that bug.


    I haven't looked, but ubuntu-desktop is probably a meta package that
    pulls all of the other stuff in. So, uninstalling one of those things
    would remove "ubuntu-desktop" while everything that actually makes up
    the desktop would remain.

    I forget which distro it was, but I discovered the same thing in
    another one. Big deal. After I found that was the case I went looking
    for meta packages I could get rid of so I could dump other packages I
    didn't want. Zero harm was done in the ensuing uninstallfest.

    I'm betting someone could pull up synaptic, choose ubuntu-desktop for
    an uninstall and not see a single other program or file pop up in a
    list of items to remove. I have kubuntu installed right now and did
    that very thing with "kubuntu-desktop" and it didn't give me a list of
    anything else to remove.

    It's not a bug. It's a metapackage.

    --
    If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.
    -- Bill Gates
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    http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

  7. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    Linonut writes:

    > * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:46:54 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:55:34 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Removing gnome-pilot will remove Ubuntu desktop. Installing Ubuntu
    >>>>>> desktop will install gnome-pilot. It is a reported bug.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work
    >>>>> around that bug.
    >>>>
    >>>> Not according to what I have been able to find, unfortunately.
    >>>
    >>> I wonder what would happen if he simply deleted the file. Probably
    >>> would come back during the next update.

    >>
    >> "simply deleted the file" - generally not a good idea.

    >
    > Why not? I've done with (effectively) with slrn. I link


    "Why not"

    > "/usr/bin/slrn" to the old version of slrn I installed (from source
    > code) in /usr/local/bin, because the new version(s) have problems.


    "show off about slrn again"
    >
    > Then, when I upgrade (and forget about) slrn, I have to delete the newly
    > installed version and re-make the link.
    >
    > You are correct about the "generally not a good idea", of course,
    > Rick.


    "now agree totally negating his why not"

    Is Liarnut not full of it??!??!?!?

    --
    "The even stupider thing about it is, these morons really believe that
    threatening people will fire and brimstone will "convert" them."
    -- Andrew Halliwell in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  8. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    * Sinister Midget peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work around
    >> that bug.

    >
    > I haven't looked, but ubuntu-desktop is probably a meta package that
    > pulls all of the other stuff in. So, uninstalling one of those things
    > would remove "ubuntu-desktop" while everything that actually makes up
    > the desktop would remain.
    >
    > I forget which distro it was, but I discovered the same thing in
    > another one. Big deal. After I found that was the case I went looking
    > for meta packages I could get rid of so I could dump other packages I
    > didn't want. Zero harm was done in the ensuing uninstallfest.


    Good idea.

    > I'm betting someone could pull up synaptic, choose ubuntu-desktop for
    > an uninstall and not see a single other program or file pop up in a
    > list of items to remove. I have kubuntu installed right now and did
    > that very thing with "kubuntu-desktop" and it didn't give me a list of
    > anything else to remove.
    >
    > It's not a bug. It's a metapackage.


    I don't install such all-inclusive packages any more. I do a
    net-install. Then I pick the apps I want, and accept whatever
    dependencies they have (so Gnome apps cause gnome-libraries and helpers
    to be load, and similarly for KDE app).

    So this core-dumper who doesn't like Gnome pilot could perhaps uninstall
    his ubuntu-desktop and reinstall just the stuff he likes.

    Of course, he might accidentally uninstall GUI support, and so should be
    prepared to use aptitude.

    (Besides, the impression I get from the Debian mailing list is that
    aptitude is the preferred package-management app for Debian).

    --
    Tan me hide when I'm dead, Fred,
    Tan me hide when I'm dead.
    So we tanned his hide when he died, Clyde,
    It's hanging there on the shed.
    All together now...
    Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
    Tie me kangaroo down.
    Tie me kangaroo down, sport,
    Tie me kangaroo down.

  9. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    On 2008-07-02, Linonut claimed:
    > * Sinister Midget peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >>> Whatever. I'm saying that, with aptitude, he may be able to work around
    >>> that bug.

    >>
    >> I haven't looked, but ubuntu-desktop is probably a meta package that
    >> pulls all of the other stuff in. So, uninstalling one of those things
    >> would remove "ubuntu-desktop" while everything that actually makes up
    >> the desktop would remain.
    >>
    >> I forget which distro it was, but I discovered the same thing in
    >> another one. Big deal. After I found that was the case I went looking
    >> for meta packages I could get rid of so I could dump other packages I
    >> didn't want. Zero harm was done in the ensuing uninstallfest.

    >
    > Good idea.
    >
    >> I'm betting someone could pull up synaptic, choose ubuntu-desktop for
    >> an uninstall and not see a single other program or file pop up in a
    >> list of items to remove. I have kubuntu installed right now and did
    >> that very thing with "kubuntu-desktop" and it didn't give me a list of
    >> anything else to remove.
    >>
    >> It's not a bug. It's a metapackage.

    >
    > I don't install such all-inclusive packages any more. I do a
    > net-install. Then I pick the apps I want, and accept whatever
    > dependencies they have (so Gnome apps cause gnome-libraries and helpers
    > to be load, and similarly for KDE app).


    In you install (k|x|n)Ubuntu you have some meta packages automatically.
    But they can be removed without harm.

    > So this core-dumper who doesn't like Gnome pilot could perhaps uninstall
    > his ubuntu-desktop and reinstall just the stuff he likes.


    No, just uninstall gnome-pilot. It will take ubuntu-desktop with it,
    and everything else will remain: gnome-panel, all of the gnome
    libraries, any games and applets, etc. It won't touch a one of them
    unless something different is uninstalled that they require as
    dependencies.

    Then any other programs installed by the metapackage can be removed
    without even mentioning ubuntu-desktop to be uninstalled because it
    will already be gone.

    The metapackage, requires gnome-pilot and a gazillion other things. But
    not one of the other things requires ubuntu-desktop. Nary a one.

    > Of course, he might accidentally uninstall GUI support, and so should be
    > prepared to use aptitude.


    Not if he uninstalls the metapackage. He'd have to uninstall a lot of
    other things and/or some of the gnome stuff.

    > (Besides, the impression I get from the Debian mailing list is that
    > aptitude is the preferred package-management app for Debian).


    I had a situation in Debian that I installed several things I wanted.
    Aptitude wanted to uninstall them every time I tried to do anything at
    all. I was forced to use Synaptic or apt-get in order to keep them. I
    could have masked them off under aptitude, but I didn't want to take
    the time to do it.

    Apt would continually inform me how I could remove them. But it never
    told me it was going to if I said "yes" to the thing I told it to do
    like aptitude did.

    If the troll really wanted to uninstall gnome-pilot, he could have
    found that information out the way I did: select ubuntu-desktop to
    uninstall and find nothing was going to go away.

    Here's what Synaptic shows me about kubuntu-desktop, which I
    uninstalled already:

    Kubuntu desktop system

    This package depends on all of the packages in the Kubuntu desktop
    system

    It is safe to remove this package if some of the desktop system
    packages are not desired.

    Gosh that was tough to locate!

    --
    Whip me. Beat me. Windows ME(tm).
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  10. Re: Ubuntu gripe No. 2 - gnome-pilot

    * Sinister Midget peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Here's what Synaptic shows me about kubuntu-desktop, which I
    > uninstalled already:
    >
    > Kubuntu desktop system
    >
    > This package depends on all of the packages in the Kubuntu desktop
    > system
    >
    > It is safe to remove this package if some of the desktop system
    > packages are not desired.
    >
    > Gosh that was tough to locate!


    Doh! Core dump!



    --
    Smoking is, as far as I'm concerned, the entire point of being an adult.
    -- Fran Lebowitz

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