Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins? - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins? - Linux ; On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:13:38 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:37:06 -0400, DFS wrote: > >> Hadron wrote: >> >>> "Just think, consumers are not sold on XP, and Microsoft shelled out >>> some ...

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Thread: Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

  1. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:13:38 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

    > On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:37:06 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Just think, consumers are not sold on XP, and Microsoft shelled out
    >>> some major $$$ to develop this thing. This is a great opportunity for
    >>> alternative operating systems to intercept the ball, and run it back
    >>> for a touchdown.": comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy
    >>> in advocacy

    >>
    >> I'm getting deja vu...
    >>
    >> Over the last 17 years, MS had some really big hits: Win 3.1, Win95,
    >> WinXP, Visual Basic, MS Office, Halo.
    >>
    >> When is Linux/OSS going to have a big hit?

    >
    > TuxRacer?


    FireFox. Opera. If you are counting market/segment penetration, the
    system itself is a big hit on supercomputers and gadgets. Of course,
    since you are always in denial, you'll find a way to dismiss any sucesses
    where Linux was used.

    --
    Rick

  2. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:29:28 -0500, Victor wrote:

    > On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:37:06 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> When is Linux/OSS going to have a big hit?

    >
    > Happens every day when the FSF retreats to water pipes and herb.


    Don't you wish you were taken seriously?

    --
    Rick

  3. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:51:38 -0500, Rick wrote:

    > FireFox. Opera.


    Opera is not open source you moron. Firefox doesn't count since most of
    its components were originally created by Netscape and later relicensed
    under OSS licenses.

    Linux has been and will always be popular only in niche markets like
    servers, supercomputers and embedded applications. As far as adoption by
    the general public, it's unlikely to happen in the near future.

  4. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:52:20 -0500, Rick wrote:

    > Don't you wish you were taken seriously?


    That coming from a guy who attempts to point out misspellings where they
    don't exist.

  5. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Victor writes:

    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:52:20 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >
    >> Don't you wish you were taken seriously?

    >
    > That coming from a guy who attempts to point out misspellings where they
    > don't exist.


    And don't forget him wondering what a GUI was!

    --
    "Hey, who needs mp3, wma, acc when we can have ogg?"
    -- "Moshe Goldfarb." in comp.os.linux.advocacy

  6. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:01:11 -0500, Victor wrote:

    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:51:38 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >
    >> FireFox. Opera.

    >
    > Opera is not open source you moron.


    mis-type. Opera is clearly not OSS. For some reason I was think
    openOffice and Opera came out. Ah, well. Mistakes happen.

    > Firefox doesn't count since most of
    > its components were originally created by Netscape and later relicensed
    > under OSS licenses.


    .... except that FireFox is a re-write. And even if FireFox was still
    Navigator, which it isn't, it is still OSS.

    >
    > Linux has been and will always be popular only in niche markets like
    > servers, supercomputers and embedded applications. As far as adoption by
    > the general public, it's unlikely to happen in the near future.


    I happen to agree. I don't think the personal computer itself has enough
    time left for Linux to catch up.

    --
    Rick

  7. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:02:17 -0500, Victor wrote:

    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:52:20 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >
    >> Don't you wish you were taken seriously?

    >
    > That coming from a guy who attempts to point out misspellings where they
    > don't exist.


    Don't you wish you were taken seriously?

    --
    Rick

  8. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:06:33 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Victor writes:
    >
    >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:52:20 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>
    >>> Don't you wish you were taken seriously?

    >>
    >> That coming from a guy who attempts to point out misspellings where
    >> they don't exist.

    >
    > And don't forget him wondering what a GUI was!


    I'll send you a dollar, if you'll promise to go buy some honesty.

    --
    Rick

  9. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Rick writes:

    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:06:33 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Victor writes:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:52:20 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Don't you wish you were taken seriously?
    >>>
    >>> That coming from a guy who attempts to point out misspellings where
    >>> they don't exist.

    >>
    >> And don't forget him wondering what a GUI was!

    >
    > I'll send you a dollar, if you'll promise to go buy some honesty.


    You think honesty and integrity come so cheaply? No. I am afraid not
    Rick. You need to develop these things. Personally I blame the parents
    of the "advocates" for not being better role models.

    --
    "For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
    I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
    interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
    company..." Linus Torvalds

  10. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:12:47 -0500, Rick wrote:

    > I happen to agree. I don't think the personal computer itself has enough
    > time left for Linux to catch up.


    I doubt Linux has enough time left to catch up, really.

  11. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    * Canuck57 peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Know of 9 people in our families who have Vista.
    >
    > 2 have succumb to being double dipped and bought/loaded XP
    > 2 don't mind Vista (non-technical)


    Imagine that, though. A person pays for the latest hardware to run the
    latest bloatware, and all they're doing is editing documents, browsing,
    sending emails, and maybe doing a little light multimedia.

    Just what /does/ Vista bring to the table for these kinds of people? It
    certainly doesn't bring better security -- they'd need Win 2003 Server
    for that.

    > 2 have replaced Vista with Ubuntu
    > 3 are still complaining.


    --
    The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead
    all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that
    it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the
    first place.
    -- Douglas Adams

  12. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Linonut wrote:
    > * Canuck57 peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Know of 9 people in our families who have Vista.
    >>
    >> 2 have succumb to being double dipped and bought/loaded XP
    >> 2 don't mind Vista (non-technical)

    >
    > Imagine that, though. A person pays for the latest hardware to run the
    > latest bloatware, and all they're doing is editing documents, browsing,
    > sending emails, and maybe doing a little light multimedia.
    >
    > Just what /does/ Vista bring to the table for these kinds of people? It
    > certainly doesn't bring better security -- they'd need Win 2003 Server
    > for that.



    Actually I used W2003 Server as a desktop for ages and like it better
    than XP or anything else for that matter. Okay you lose some things like
    Movie Maker, but it ran light and clean and seemed secure out of the box
    (Subject to updates). Unfortunately the price puts it out of range for
    non business users. Also a lot of free stuff (Like AV) won't run on it.

    Documentation is another thing, not many enthusiasts write "Simply
    Worded" tutorials for MS professional stuff. For example setting up a
    mail server in W2003. MS do some nice docs but assume knowledge that
    most enthusiasts do not have - hmm I mean like references to other
    terminology. Example:- You need to set up the ABC before redirecting the
    DEF or else the GHI will not work. By the time you have looked up what
    MS means by DEF (And there can be 20 such references in a document) you
    are so far off the original topic it's past midnight . IOW they do not
    do a start to finish step by step. With Linux and something like Webmin
    you can usually find some step by step docs. Again, this is not
    criticizing anybody, but if you are doing something once a week it's a
    different ball game to doing it once a year.

    So it seems to me that there is a growing base of "Help" out there for
    Linux which will encourage it's use. It is there for Windows but often
    you have to pay for it at Barnes and Noble, and by the time you get the
    book something has changed and it's out of date. By far the best MS
    documentation for ordinary users was Tom Koch's Outlook Express website,
    not written by MS at all.

    Another odd thing is business policy, example being the mail client.
    Ignoring the debacle that occurred after Vista RTM with mail they now
    supply a half functional client that does not play with Hotmail but give
    another client away (A colored version of OE) that does work. What was
    the point? Users now set up one and then have to set up another, since
    both are free why not simply include the better one? I went through a
    period where neither would communicate with my ISPs mail server (Vista
    or XP versions) and was forced to change to Thunderbird. I mean what was
    that about? I set up the same things 3 times. But look through the
    groups and you see the same old things, corrupt message stores (Usually
    caused by Norton or similar), messages stuck in outbox, trouble with
    attachments. Sorry but these just do not happen with Thunderbird, either
    under Windows or Linux. Considering the types of user you mentioned
    above surely Email is a fundamental thing to get right, as is browsing?

    Of course the problem seems to me to be that these functions are not
    detachable from the Kernal, you can't reinstall IE like you can FireFox
    or Opera. IE is not always the problem, usually I find it is an add on,
    or some malware, but if it trashes IE then it gets complicated.
    Similarly WMP, if it gets trashed by some Codec pack you can't reinstall
    it.

    So Please Microsoft, sort out some of the simple things. If you must
    "Integrate" things then supply a "Basic" version of things that is
    harder to corrupt and make the better version reinstallable, so that if
    add ons get trashed a user can opt for the reinstall.



  13. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Victor wrote:
    > On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:37:06 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> When is Linux/OSS going to have a big hit?

    >
    > Happens every day when the FSF retreats to water pipes and herb.


    ;-)

    They run dirtware, and they smoke dirtweed.





  14. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Victor writes:

    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:12:47 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >
    >> I happen to agree. I don't think the personal computer itself has enough
    >> time left for Linux to catch up.

    >
    > I doubt Linux has enough time left to catch up, really.


    I had hoped 2 years ago that it might. Vista was a perfect disaster
    waiting to enable Linux to take off. But no. Too many people fragmented
    (there's a word for you Rick!) and trying to make YAD (Yet Another
    Distro) as opposed to gathering forces and strengthening Linux where it
    was required - and my latest bugbear being one of the most important for
    business users - the ability to sync a PDA and mobile properly.

    Personally I would sooner choose between 3 good distros than 500 crap
    ones. Debian Lenny just about meets my "needs" (except for phone sync
    and gaming). But I spent ages acquiring Linux skills and also have a
    technical background.

    --
    If you take both of those factors together then WinXP is a flop, selling
    *less* than Win 98 by a factor of two.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they the lunacy in advocacy

  15. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Canuck57 wrote:

    >
    > At least we know you breath in the dark.
    >
    > Know of 9 people in our families who have Vista.
    >
    > 2 have succumb to being double dipped and bought/loaded XP
    > 2 don't mind Vista (non-technical)
    > 2 have replaced Vista with Ubuntu
    > 3 are still complaining.
    >
    > Thank my stars I never recommended Vista to relatives.


    Every time you post in this newsgroup, you become a bigger fool
    then you already are....what a loser!

  16. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:8Vr5k.6398$PZ6.4841@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
    >* Canuck57 peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Know of 9 people in our families who have Vista.
    >>
    >> 2 have succumb to being double dipped and bought/loaded XP
    >> 2 don't mind Vista (non-technical)

    >
    > Imagine that, though. A person pays for the latest hardware to run the
    > latest bloatware, and all they're doing is editing documents, browsing,
    > sending emails, and maybe doing a little light multimedia.
    >
    > Just what /does/ Vista bring to the table for these kinds of people? It
    > certainly doesn't bring better security -- they'd need Win 2003 Server
    > for that.
    >
    >> 2 have replaced Vista with Ubuntu
    >> 3 are still complaining.

    >
    > --
    > The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
    > lead
    > all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact
    > that
    > it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the
    > first place.
    > -- Douglas Adams


    Good quote, has lots of merit.



  17. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:09:19 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Victor writes:
    >
    >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:12:47 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>
    >>> I happen to agree. I don't think the personal computer itself has enough
    >>> time left for Linux to catch up.

    >>
    >> I doubt Linux has enough time left to catch up, really.

    >
    > I had hoped 2 years ago that it might. Vista was a perfect disaster
    > waiting to enable Linux to take off. But no. Too many people fragmented
    > (there's a word for you Rick!) and trying to make YAD (Yet Another
    > Distro) as opposed to gathering forces and strengthening Linux where it
    > was required - and my latest bugbear being one of the most important for
    > business users - the ability to sync a PDA and mobile properly.


    The Linux loons screwed up once again.
    The last time was when Windows ME was released.


    > Personally I would sooner choose between 3 good distros than 500 crap
    > ones. Debian Lenny just about meets my "needs" (except for phone sync
    > and gaming). But I spent ages acquiring Linux skills and also have a
    > technical background.


    The average person runs as fast as he can from Linux, especially after
    trying it.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  18. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Hadron wrote:
    > Victor writes:
    >
    >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:12:47 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>
    >>> I happen to agree. I don't think the personal computer itself has enough
    >>> time left for Linux to catch up.

    >> I doubt Linux has enough time left to catch up, really.

    >
    > I had hoped 2 years ago that it might. Vista was a perfect disaster
    > waiting to enable Linux to take off. But no. Too many people fragmented
    > (there's a word for you Rick!) and trying to make YAD (Yet Another
    > Distro) as opposed to gathering forces and strengthening Linux where it
    > was required - and my latest bugbear being one of the most important for
    > business users - the ability to sync a PDA and mobile properly.
    >
    > Personally I would sooner choose between 3 good distros than 500 crap
    > ones.


    Then why didn't you choose between 5 good ones instead of looking at 500
    crap ones?


    > Debian Lenny just about meets my "needs" (except for phone sync
    > and gaming). But I spent ages acquiring Linux skills and also have a
    > technical background.
    >


    Then why did you spend time trying to use crap distros?

  19. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Hadron wrote:
    > Rick writes:
    >
    >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:06:33 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >>> Victor writes:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:52:20 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Don't you wish you were taken seriously?
    >>>> That coming from a guy who attempts to point out misspellings where
    >>>> they don't exist.
    >>> And don't forget him wondering what a GUI was!

    >> I'll send you a dollar, if you'll promise to go buy some honesty.

    >
    > You think honesty and integrity come so cheaply? No. I am afraid not
    > Rick. You need to develop these things. Personally I blame the parents
    > of the "advocates" for not being better role models.
    >

    Personally, I blame you for your dishonesty.

  20. Re: Is Micoshaft Marketing Causing Retardation of IT Admins?

    Rick writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Victor writes:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:12:47 -0500, Rick wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I happen to agree. I don't think the personal computer itself has
    >>>> enough time left for Linux to catch up.
    >>> I doubt Linux has enough time left to catch up, really.

    >>
    >> I had hoped 2 years ago that it might. Vista was a perfect disaster
    >> waiting to enable Linux to take off. But no. Too many people fragmented
    >> (there's a word for you Rick!) and trying to make YAD (Yet Another
    >> Distro) as opposed to gathering forces and strengthening Linux where it
    >> was required - and my latest bugbear being one of the most important for
    >> business users - the ability to sync a PDA and mobile properly.
    >>
    >> Personally I would sooner choose between 3 good distros than 500 crap
    >> ones.

    >
    > Then why didn't you choose between 5 good ones instead of looking at
    > 500 crap ones?
    >
    >
    >> Debian Lenny just about meets my "needs" (except for phone sync
    >> and gaming). But I spent ages acquiring Linux skills and also have a
    >> technical background.
    >>

    >
    > Then why did you spend time trying to use crap distros?


    Check mate you nut job.

    New users do not KNOW what is "good". Apparently they need to filter the
    500 to find one which best "fits their needs".

    --
    I really think XP is going to be a flop. Between the glut of hardware out
    there (and slowing down of purchasing), and the fact that W2K is
    sufficient for so many casual users.... I just don't see it taking off.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

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