Linux just makes you work - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux just makes you work - Linux ; "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard work getting opensuse 10.3 to work." http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815 I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't ...

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Thread: Linux just makes you work

  1. Linux just makes you work

    "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard work
    getting opensuse 10.3 to work."

    http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815


    I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this victim
    experience the mythical half hour?




  2. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    > work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >
    > http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >
    >
    > I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    > minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    > victim experience the mythical half hour?


    That a bit lame, even for you.

    Most of the issues were simple configurations, hosing grub was not
    clever, but not difficult to resolve.

    Just think had the system been pre-installed like windows the op would
    have had a working system out of the box. "mythical half hour?" I like
    that it has a nice ring, I can hear people saying "Yes! I beat the
    mythical half hour," Just think you may have started a new game, set out
    5 key areas that must be up and working, within 30 mins, you would have
    to ban live distros they are just to dam quick to get a system running.

    Jem..


  3. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 2008-06-09, DFS wrote:
    > "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard work
    > getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >
    > http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >
    >
    > I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    > minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this victim
    > experience the mythical half hour?


    ...try a desktop distribution perhaps.

    Suse was never marketed to the ease of use crowd ever.

    You might as well whine about Debian or Slackware.

    --
    vi isn't easy to use. |||
    / | \
    vi is easy to REPLACE.

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  4. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jeremy Fisher

    wrote
    on 09 Jun 2008 16:50:59 GMT
    <484d5f73$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>:
    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    >> victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > That a bit lame, even for you.
    >
    > Most of the issues were simple configurations, hosing grub was not
    > clever, but not difficult to resolve.


    That takes a little work, if one's not doing
    repartitioning. Unlike LILO, where /sbin/lilo has to be
    rerun every time someone rebuilds a kernel, GRUB takes a
    beating and keeps on booting; GRUB's very tolerant of such
    minor changes, if one can get past the slight strangeness
    of its (hd0,1) syntax.

    I suppose congratulations of a sort are in order for DFS,
    but I have no idea what he's doing anyway. (I'm not sure
    he does either.)

    >
    > Just think had the system been pre-installed like windows the op would
    > have had a working system out of the box. "mythical half hour?" I like
    > that it has a nice ring, I can hear people saying "Yes! I beat the
    > mythical half hour," Just think you may have started a new game, set out
    > 5 key areas that must be up and working, within 30 mins, you would have
    > to ban live distros they are just to dam quick to get a system running.


    Indeed; and LiveDiscs are all over the Web. Gentoo has
    one; so do Ubuntu, Fedora, and of course Knoppix and DSL.
    (I'd include SuSE but haven't downloaded it; I'll have to
    retry Sabayon but it didn't boot for me in QEMU for some
    reason -- that was awhile ago, though.) I'd be a bit hard
    pressed to find a distro that doesn't have a LiveDisc at
    this point.

    >
    > Jem..
    >



    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #10239993:
    char * f(char *p) {char *q = malloc(strlen(p)); strcpy(q,p); return q; }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  5. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 2008-06-09, Jeremy Fisher claimed:

    > Just think had the system been pre-installed like windows the op would
    > have had a working system out of the box......


    And it would've taken hours before they could use it because of
    activation, downloading tons of crap updates, reboots related to
    downloading tons of crap updates, demo crapware nags telling the user
    how lucky they are to see advertisements from "trusted partners" (aka
    "future corpses"), etc.

    I played with Vista Home Premium (nyuk nyuk) a few days ago just to do
    a backup in case I had to send this thing back under warranty. I gave
    up after 4 hours without knowing the state of the backup, whether it
    was complete, whether it would even work to restore things, etc. The
    part that seemingly caused the biggest drain on the machine was the
    updates I never was told I was getting until I was informed I needed to
    reboot the system because of them.

    So much for that mythical "works outta the box" mantra of the Windolts.

    --
    Windows: The answer to a question nobody asked.

  6. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    > work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >
    > http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >
    >
    > I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    > minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    > victim experience the mythical half hour?


    Probably because he's totally inexperienced and did a lot of unnecessary
    fiddling. It's still, most likely, less than half the time he'd expend
    installing MS.

  7. Re: Linux just makes you work

    * JEDIDIAH peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On 2008-06-09, DFS wrote:
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard work
    >> getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this victim
    >> experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > ...try a desktop distribution perhaps.
    >
    > Suse was never marketed to the ease of use crowd ever.
    >
    > You might as well whine about Debian or Slackware.


    A Debian net-install takes less than 1/2 hour. Of course, you can then
    add apps here and there anytime you want to.

    A Slackware install was a lot easier than I thought it would be, too,
    though your more likely to need to tweak config files.

    --
    Information technology and business are becoming inextricably interwoven. I
    don't think anybody can talk meaningfully about one without the talking
    about the other.
    -- Bill Gates

  8. Re: Linux just makes you work, DFS dishonesty.

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    > work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >
    > http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >
    >
    > I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    > minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    > victim experience the mythical half hour?


    opensuse != Linux.



    --
    Rick

  9. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:09:59 -0500, Sinister Midget wrote:

    > On 2008-06-09, Jeremy Fisher claimed:
    >
    >> Just think had the system been pre-installed like windows the op would
    >> have had a working system out of the box......

    >
    > And it would've taken hours before they could use it because of
    > activation, downloading tons of crap updates, reboots related to
    > downloading tons of crap updates, demo crapware nags telling the user how
    > lucky they are to see advertisements from "trusted partners" (aka "future
    > corpses"), etc.


    Then it would want defragging, then an AV check, & a spyware/adware check.

    >
    > I played with Vista Home Premium (nyuk nyuk) a few days ago just to do a
    > backup in case I had to send this thing back under warranty. I gave up
    > after 4 hours without knowing the state of the backup, whether it was
    > complete, whether it would even work to restore things, etc. The part
    > that seemingly caused the biggest drain on the machine was the updates I
    > never was told I was getting until I was informed I needed to reboot the
    > system because of them.
    >
    > So much for that mythical "works outta the box" mantra of the Windolts.


    --
    Mandriva 2008.1 64-bit.
    This message was sent from a
    computer which is guaranteed
    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.

  10. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 2008-06-09, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jeremy Fisher
    >
    > wrote
    > on 09 Jun 2008 16:50:59 GMT
    ><484d5f73$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >>> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    >>> victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> That a bit lame, even for you.
    >>
    >> Most of the issues were simple configurations, hosing grub was not
    >> clever, but not difficult to resolve.

    >
    > That takes a little work, if one's not doing
    > repartitioning. Unlike LILO, where /sbin/lilo has to be
    > rerun every time someone rebuilds a kernel, GRUB takes a
    > beating and keeps on booting; GRUB's very tolerant of such
    > minor changes, if one can get past the slight strangeness
    > of its (hd0,1) syntax.


    Yep... and its annoying way of referring to SATA and PATA disks with the
    same syntax.

    But Grub's CLI is the Duck's Nuts! I just love the command
    completion... especially when I've made an error in my
    /boot/grub/menu.lst and grub can't find my kernel...

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  11. Re: Linux just makes you work, DFS dishonesty.

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Rick

    wrote
    on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:26:57 -0500
    :
    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    >> victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > opensuse != Linux.
    >


    Careful. That's a variant of the DistroShuffle(tm), which
    the Wintrolls *hate*. ;-)

    But of course opensuse != Linux; ditto for Fedora, Gentoo,
    Debian, and any other distro.

    I'll admit to wondering what it means to "work" in this context,
    of course; the devil is always in the details. The article
    mentions the following:

    - Atheros WiFi needed a patched driver.
    - Sound required an undocumented 'toshiba' model in a YaST config.
    - Spell check/OpenOffice issues. No doubt part of this is that
    OpenOffice didn't provide a spell checker of its own.
    - "Screen 3d" is a little vague but probably refers to the Intel 943
    GML chip, and an OpenGL-capable driver.
    - Stability problems until Wifi/Sound fixed.
    - GRUB configuration issue. Why this would prevent a login is
    not clear; it would of course prevent the system from properly
    booting. It is possible the default GRUB configuration was
    single user mode (init 1).

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  12. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Gregory Shearman

    wrote
    on 9 Jun 2008 23:19:42 GMT
    :
    > On 2008-06-09, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jeremy Fisher
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on 09 Jun 2008 16:50:59 GMT
    >><484d5f73$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>:
    >>> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>>
    >>>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >>>> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    >>>> victim experience the mythical half hour?
    >>>
    >>> That a bit lame, even for you.
    >>>
    >>> Most of the issues were simple configurations, hosing grub was not
    >>> clever, but not difficult to resolve.

    >>
    >> That takes a little work, if one's not doing
    >> repartitioning. Unlike LILO, where /sbin/lilo has to be
    >> rerun every time someone rebuilds a kernel, GRUB takes a
    >> beating and keeps on booting; GRUB's very tolerant of such
    >> minor changes, if one can get past the slight strangeness
    >> of its (hd0,1) syntax.

    >
    > Yep... and its annoying way of referring to SATA and PATA disks with the
    > same syntax.
    >
    > But Grub's CLI is the Duck's Nuts! I just love the command
    > completion... especially when I've made an error in my
    > /boot/grub/menu.lst and grub can't find my kernel...
    >


    Really? Interesting...though I can't say I've tried
    the command completion as such. I do like the ability
    to edit a boot line, though, especially when I'm backing
    up and repartitioning. (I copy the system to one of the
    partitions on my terabyte storage. It's a little weird
    environment-wise, and the system tends to not initially
    find /dev/sda as the unit spins up rather slower than the
    kernel likes....but no problem otherwise, and I can type
    it in and it then goes off running.)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    fortune: not found
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  13. Re: Linux just makes you work

    Rick wrote:
    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > opensuse != Linux.


    hmmm...is that the same as: Fedora != Linux?

    Cause last week you were telling me Fedora is Linux.

    Then again that was last week, and back then you were talking out of a
    different side of your mouth.




  14. Re: Linux just makes you work

    JEDIDIAH wrote:
    > On 2008-06-09, DFS wrote:
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > ...try a desktop distribution perhaps.
    >
    > Suse was never marketed to the ease of use crowd ever.


    That's odd, because their wiki states their common goal is "...to create and
    distribute the world's most usable Linux."

    http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org




    > You might as well whine about Debian or Slackware.


    I was a Slackware victim myself - way too much work for the results.




  15. Re: Linux just makes you work

    ray wrote:
    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > Probably because he's totally inexperienced and did a lot of
    > unnecessary fiddling.


    So Linux "just works" for experienced users? The rest of us are SOL?



    > It's still, most likely, less than half the
    > time he'd expend installing MS.


    You think he would spend 2 weeks of hard work getting XP or Vista to work on
    his laptop?

    Not a chance, ray. No frickin' way.




  16. Re: Linux just makes you work

    Jeremy Fisher wrote:
    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > That a bit lame, even for you.


    This was a good one! Two cola lies, and Suse's stated objective for
    openSuse, were dispatched with the experiences of one victim.



    > Most of the issues were simple configurations, hosing grub was not
    > clever, but not difficult to resolve.


    I'm having trouble reconciling his week of hard work with your claims of
    'simple' and 'not difficult'.



    > Just think had the system been pre-installed like windows the op would
    > have had a working system out of the box. "mythical half hour?" I like
    > that it has a nice ring, I can hear people saying "Yes! I beat the
    > mythical half hour," Just think you may have started a new game, set
    > out 5 key areas that must be up and working, within 30 mins, you
    > would have to ban live distros they are just to dam quick to get a
    > system running.


    Live distros are pretty cool for demos, I agree.

    But what do they have to do with a week-long torture install of a distro
    who's stated goal is "to create and distribute the world's most usable
    Linux."?




  17. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS

    wrote
    on Mon, 9 Jun 2008 20:29:59 -0400
    :
    > Rick wrote:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >>> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >>> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> opensuse != Linux.

    >
    > hmmm...is that the same as: Fedora != Linux?
    >
    > Cause last week you were telling me Fedora is Linux.
    >
    > Then again that was last week, and back then you were talking out of a
    > different side of your mouth.
    >


    An identical argument, yes. Let me put it this way.

    Fedora.

    [1] comes on a LiveDisc.

    [2] Boots on most PCs.

    [3] Will display a simple desktop on most PCs. (I'd have
    to boot it up and look to see exactly what it looks like.)

    [4] Will allow simple manipulations such as a terminal emulator
    on that desktop.

    Linux.

    [1] comes from various sources; the simplest is
    www.kernel.org.

    [2] will not boot without help, even once compiled --
    usually LILO or GRUB, plus various GNU utilities such as
    /lib/libc.so, /bin/bash and /sbin/init.

    [3] Doesn't display much of anything unless a module calls
    kprintf() or panic().

    [4] Cannot manipulate anything without help, almost
    always from a program that it loads. (These programs
    can be anything from simple shell utilities to highly
    sophisticated applications.)

    Is this crystal clear to everybody? Good...because I'm
    getting a little tired of explaining it to all of you,
    who seem to think Linux = 'a generic Linux distro'.

    It's not, and it never was.

    Now Windows can get away with this, as Windows is the
    entire enchilada, or at least the entire "Microsoft
    distro", including the NT bootloader and the NTOSKRNL.EXE,
    which IINM is the the NT/2k/XP/Vista kernel. Of course
    few talk about NTOSKRNL.EXE; that part is not usually
    associated with viruses, worms, and trojans, nor is it
    directly accessible to programmers (it's similar to the
    Linux kernel in that respect).

    Windows is also preinstalled -- a big advantage when it
    comes to configurability, at least from the OEM's standpoint.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Is it cheaper to learn Linux, or to hire someone
    to fix your Windows problems?
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  18. Re: Linux just lets you work

    Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.

    Just another reason to like Linux.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  19. Re: Linux just makes you work

    RonB wrote:

    > Isn't it great?


    No



    > No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill.


    None here either.



    > No suggested reboots


    That's because they're all required:

    "About 4 times each day, the whole system freezes up... Only way to recover
    is to hit the hardware reset button. This is quite frustrating."
    1st post at http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=35878.0




    > -- just sit at the computer and start working.


    For a few minutes before the freezing and rebooting starts:

    "this morning in five boot attempts approx up time without freezing about 2
    minutes"
    #103 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=11




    > Just another reason to like Linux.


    What was the first?




  20. Re: Linux just lets you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, RonB

    wrote
    on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:28:49 -0500
    :
    > Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    > reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.
    >
    > Just another reason to like Linux.
    >


    NAT eliminates most malware packets; the rest is good drill,
    known websites, and trusted antiviral software.

    Linux has not as much an advantage here as people might think,
    especially since ISPs are getting into the act and applying
    filters to suspect websites.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Q: "Why is my computer doing that?"
    A: "Don't do that and you'll be fine."
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

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