Linux just makes you work - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux just makes you work - Linux ; On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:29:59 -0400, DFS wrote: > Rick wrote: >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote: >> >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard >>> work getting opensuse ...

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Thread: Linux just makes you work

  1. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:29:59 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Rick wrote:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >>> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >>> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> opensuse != Linux.

    >
    > hmmm...is that the same as: Fedora != Linux?
    >
    > Cause last week you were telling me Fedora is Linux.
    >
    > Then again that was last week, and back then you were talking out of a
    > different side of your mouth.


    Buy a brain.



    --
    Rick

  2. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS

    wrote
    on Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:16:34 -0400
    <9sl3k.1897$3F5.1463@bignews2.bellsouth.net>:
    > RonB wrote:
    >
    >> Isn't it great?

    >
    > No
    >


    I happen to like Linux, for what it's worth. But then, I'm
    an old Unix head.

    >
    >
    >> No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill.

    >
    > None here either.
    >


    None needed, if one's smart about it; see below.

    >
    >
    >> No suggested reboots

    >
    > That's because they're all required:
    >
    > "About 4 times each day, the whole system freezes up... Only way to recover
    > is to hit the hardware reset button. This is quite frustrating."
    > 1st post at http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=35878.0
    >


    That is correct; Linux requires frequent reboots -- on certain hardware,
    especially if misconfigured.

    >
    >> -- just sit at the computer and start working.

    >
    > For a few minutes before the freezing and rebooting starts:
    >
    > "this morning in five boot attempts approx up time without freezing about 2
    > minutes"
    > #103 at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&page=11
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >> Just another reason to like Linux.

    >
    > What was the first?
    >


    There is no reason to like Linux. What one needs is a
    reason to use it. Frequent freezeups, susceptibility
    to malware (have you all forgotten BadBunnyz?[*]), and
    noncompatibility with common applications (never mind
    standards; who gives a damn?) are issues that need to be
    looked at carefully.

    The good news for Linux: people are paying more attention
    to standards; the general idea is to allow interoperability
    and vendor switchout. The bad news for Linux: Microsoft is
    already there, either creating new standards (OOXML) or
    hewing closer to existing ones (IIS6 runs PHP very well,
    and can probably run Python and Java as well).

    And Microsoft has always been easier to use, if
    only because it has more people attempting to use it.
    Got a problem? Run down and get the neighbor kid to fix
    it...chances are 9 out of 10 he's a Windows expert instead
    of a Linux one. Also, most things in Microsoft have an
    associated GUI; Linux has some work to do in that area, though
    I'm not scared of a command line. However, many are.

    All that may change if Microsoft suddenly up and dies --
    a possibility about as likely as the Sun exploding without
    government intervention.

    No, Linux isn't a perfect solution -- far from it. But then,
    neither is Windows. It will probably take some time to
    warm to Windows Vista, and by then all machines will be more
    than ready for it -- including non-Intel-compatible ones, as
    Microsoft furthers its .NET work and completes its porting.

    Welcome to the New World Order.
    [*] To be fair, that's an OpenOffice worm. But OO is typically run
    on Linux.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Q: "Why is my computer doing that?"
    A: "Don't do that and you'll be fine."
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  3. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS

    wrote
    on Mon, 9 Jun 2008 20:36:07 -0400
    <_Zj3k.1840$3F5.991@bignews2.bellsouth.net>:
    > ray wrote:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >>> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >>> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> Probably because he's totally inexperienced and did a lot of
    >> unnecessary fiddling.

    >
    > So Linux "just works" for experienced users? The rest of us are SOL?
    >


    Gentoo might work for experienced users; certainly it works
    well for me personally. Linux? It'll panic.

    Try booting it without GRUB or LILO, if you have a spare hard
    drive handy. One won't get far.

    Even with a floppy, one has to put more than just
    the kernel to get it to do something useful; SYSLINUX
    is floating around, for example, or one can use the
    multi-floppy route popularized at one point by Debian.

    Of course floppies are so last millennium anyway; I'm
    probably one of the few that still has a floppy drive on
    my laptop unit, and the new desktops don't even have a
    floppy drive.

    I'm mildly surprised Android is as primitive as it is
    internally, but perhaps Google decided busybox is good
    enough so they can fit more Java on whatever FlashROM
    can be stuffed into an ARM microprocessor based phone units.
    It is of course Linux based. I don't know enough about
    Windows Mobile to compare, though.

    >
    >
    >> It's still, most likely, less than half the
    >> time he'd expend installing MS.

    >
    > You think he would spend 2 weeks of hard work getting XP or Vista to work on
    > his laptop?
    >
    > Not a chance, ray. No frickin' way.
    >


    And not necessary. Vista works out of the box, as I
    understand it; the main issue is proper activation.
    Of course it's more likely to be Vista Home Basic on
    the ultra-cheap machines, but that's OK; that's why
    they're cheap.

    Bear in mind most boxes have Windows preinstalled, and
    apparently it's 50/50 as to whether it's XP or Vista.
    Installation of Vista is as painful as XP, AIUI, but that's
    by a user's choice. Linux, by contrast *must be installed*
    unless one looks very carefully at hardware vendors such
    as System76 and Eracks, and most people will simply stop
    at Best Buy or Dell and have done with it. While the
    installation is simple enough (if the hardware works properly),
    it's more work than one needs with a Vista box -- at least until
    one decides to install certain applications on it, anyway.

    Perhaps all this will change as Linux continues its long
    and weary march towards plurality, but it's a slow schlog,
    especially since Microsoft has *lots* of mud, and Apple
    isn't above a few zingers that can hit Microsoft but
    positively pummel Linux; the "Choose a Vista wheel" in
    particular does not go down well.

    (BTW: it's a funny commercial, and can play on Linux boxes,
    with a little work. For Apple, it works out of the box,
    and I presume Microsoft merely needs a Quicktime installation.
    My Gentoo required both Quicktime and libFAAC -- the audio side,
    presumably.
    http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
    Choose a Vista is in 2007.
    )

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Q: "Why is my computer doing that?"
    A: "Don't do that and you'll be fine."
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  4. Re: Linux just lets you work

    On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:37:54 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >In comp.os.linux.advocacy, RonB
    >
    > wrote
    >on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:28:49 -0500
    >:
    >> Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    >> reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.
    >>
    >> Just another reason to like Linux.
    >>


    >NAT eliminates most malware packets; the rest is good drill,
    >known websites, and trusted antiviral software.


    >Linux has not as much an advantage here as people might think,
    >especially since ISPs are getting into the act and applying
    >filters to suspect websites.


    The difference is that most linux users don't do all their work
    as root. One's web browser simply hasn't the ability to install the
    kinds of malware that are trivial to install from a web browser run
    by a windows administrator.

  5. Re: Linux just makes you work

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >> You think he would spend 2 weeks of hard work getting XP or Vista to
    >> work on his laptop?
    >>
    >> Not a chance, ray. No frickin' way.
    >>

    >
    > Bear in mind most boxes have Windows preinstalled, and
    > apparently it's 50/50 as to whether it's XP or Vista.
    > Installation of Vista is as painful as XP, AIUI, but that's
    > by a user's choice.


    Vista install is a cakewalk.


    > Linux, by contrast *must be installed*
    > unless one looks very carefully at hardware vendors such
    > as System76 and Eracks, and most people will simply stop
    > at Best Buy or Dell and have done with it. While the
    > installation is simple enough (if the hardware works properly),
    > it's more work than one needs with a Vista box -- at least until
    > one decides to install certain applications on it, anyway.


    Linux installs are easy, too. I think.



    > Perhaps all this will change as Linux continues its long
    > and weary march towards plurality, but it's a slow schlog,
    > especially since Microsoft has *lots* of mud, and Apple
    > isn't above a few zingers that can hit Microsoft but
    > positively pummel Linux; the "Choose a Vista wheel" in
    > particular does not go down well.


    Don't let the Mac ad agency see this:

    http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...8_licenses.png



    > (BTW: it's a funny commercial, and can play on Linux boxes,
    > with a little work. For Apple, it works out of the box,
    > and I presume Microsoft merely needs a Quicktime installation.
    > My Gentoo required both Quicktime and libFAAC -- the audio side,
    > presumably.


    How much fun was that to setup?



    > http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
    > Choose a Vista is in 2007.
    > )


    Those are classics! Very funny ads. Apple is hammering on Windows - and
    apparently it's been effective.



  6. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 2008-06-09, Linonut wrote:
    > * JEDIDIAH peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On 2008-06-09, DFS wrote:
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard work
    >>> getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >>> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this victim
    >>> experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> ...try a desktop distribution perhaps.
    >>
    >> Suse was never marketed to the ease of use crowd ever.
    >>
    >> You might as well whine about Debian or Slackware.

    >
    > A Debian net-install takes less than 1/2 hour. Of course, you can then
    > add apps here and there anytime you want to.
    >
    > A Slackware install was a lot easier than I thought it would be, too,
    > though your more likely to need to tweak config files.
    >


    ....while it's true that both are easy for experienced Unix
    users they might not exactly be appropriate for the "How
    do I get a free replacement for Windows" crowd. Slack, Deb
    and Suse are all more server oriented distros and always
    have been.

    This aspect of Debian is one of the reasons Ubuntu (and
    friends) came into being.

    I dig the Debian net-installer too but it's something that's
    likely distress the Lemming parrot brigade.

    --
    Linux: because everyone should get to drink the beer of their |||
    choice and not merely be limited to pretensious imports or hard cider. / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  7. Re: Linux just lets you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, AZ Nomad

    wrote
    on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:18:46 -0500
    :
    > On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:37:54 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, RonB
    >>
    >> wrote
    >>on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:28:49 -0500
    >>:
    >>> Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    >>> reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.
    >>>
    >>> Just another reason to like Linux.
    >>>

    >
    >>NAT eliminates most malware packets; the rest is good drill,
    >>known websites, and trusted antiviral software.

    >
    >>Linux has not as much an advantage here as people might think,
    >>especially since ISPs are getting into the act and applying
    >>filters to suspect websites.

    >
    > The difference is that most linux users don't do all their work
    > as root. One's web browser simply hasn't the ability to install the
    > kinds of malware that are trivial to install from a web browser run
    > by a windows administrator.


    You're right; there is that vector. I would hope Vista
    fixes this but rather doubt it; the UAC solution (did
    someone forget to do a little research when coming up with
    that acronym?) is more like a bandaid than a true solution.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net -- insert random Martian defense contractor here
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733:
    bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;}
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  8. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS

    wrote
    on Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:19:48 -0400
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:


    [someone else said]

    >>> You think he would spend 2 weeks of hard work getting XP or Vista to
    >>> work on his laptop?
    >>>
    >>> Not a chance, ray. No frickin' way.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Bear in mind most boxes have Windows preinstalled, and
    >> apparently it's 50/50 as to whether it's XP or Vista.
    >> Installation of Vista is as painful as XP, AIUI, but that's
    >> by a user's choice.

    >
    > Vista install is a cakewalk.


    Vista install is *nonexistent*. The OEM does it for you.

    >
    >
    >> Linux, by contrast *must be installed*
    >> unless one looks very carefully at hardware vendors such
    >> as System76 and Eracks, and most people will simply stop
    >> at Best Buy or Dell and have done with it. While the
    >> installation is simple enough (if the hardware works properly),
    >> it's more work than one needs with a Vista box -- at least until
    >> one decides to install certain applications on it, anyway.

    >
    > Linux installs are easy, too. I think.


    I will refer you to one of the other threads where the
    installation was not completed until about a week after
    initiation -- mostly because of configuration issues.

    How "easy" is that, really? To be fair, there are probably
    additional circumstances -- the 56k modem in particular
    looks like a Windows Special(tm), and is fortunately
    rather anachronistic now. Apparently the sound card
    is also not above interrupting the machine even when not
    configured properly, confusing things.

    Also, there are OEMs who will preinstall Linux.

    >
    >
    >
    >> Perhaps all this will change as Linux continues its long
    >> and weary march towards plurality, but it's a slow schlog,
    >> especially since Microsoft has *lots* of mud, and Apple
    >> isn't above a few zingers that can hit Microsoft but
    >> positively pummel Linux; the "Choose a Vista wheel" in
    >> particular does not go down well.

    >
    > Don't let the Mac ad agency see this:
    >
    > http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...8_licenses.png


    Impressive, though not in a good way. Which distro is this?
    Looks like it might be RedHat Enterprise but can't be sure.

    >
    >
    >
    >> (BTW: it's a funny commercial, and can play on Linux boxes,
    >> with a little work. For Apple, it works out of the box,
    >> and I presume Microsoft merely needs a Quicktime installation.
    >> My Gentoo required both Quicktime and libFAAC -- the audio side,
    >> presumably.

    >
    > How much fun was that to setup?


    Not much...though I'm still having minor problems with glitches
    and dropouts. The main issue was emerging[*] the right things.

    >
    >
    >
    >> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
    >> Choose a Vista is in 2007.
    >> )

    >
    > Those are classics! Very funny ads. Apple is hammering on Windows - and
    > apparently it's been effective.


    Apple is indirectly hammering on Linux as well, with that ad campaign.
    Or have you forgotten that the wheel could just as easily be 100 times
    bigger?

    There is only *one* Leopard. There are *nine* Vistas,
    and they're making fun of that. But there are over 500, if
    not 1000, Linux distributions (most of them derivatives).
    [*] a Gentooism.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #8830129:
    std::set<...> v; for(..:iterator i = v.begin(); i != v.end(); i++)
    if(*i == thing) {...}
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  9. Re: Linux just lets you work

    On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:15:33 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >In comp.os.linux.advocacy, AZ Nomad
    >
    > wrote
    >on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:18:46 -0500
    >:
    >> On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:37:54 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, RonB
    >>>
    >>> wrote
    >>>on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:28:49 -0500
    >>>:
    >>>> Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    >>>> reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.
    >>>>
    >>>> Just another reason to like Linux.
    >>>>

    >>
    >>>NAT eliminates most malware packets; the rest is good drill,
    >>>known websites, and trusted antiviral software.

    >>
    >>>Linux has not as much an advantage here as people might think,
    >>>especially since ISPs are getting into the act and applying
    >>>filters to suspect websites.

    >>
    >> The difference is that most linux users don't do all their work
    >> as root. One's web browser simply hasn't the ability to install the
    >> kinds of malware that are trivial to install from a web browser run
    >> by a windows administrator.


    >You're right; there is that vector. I would hope Vista
    >fixes this but rather doubt it; the UAC solution (did


    It doesn't even come close. The standard user on vista is still an
    administrator. The web browser and other heavyweight applications are
    expected to enforce security. At the OS level, any app the default vista
    user runs can overwrite any part of the system at any time.

    Security on vista is a big joke.

  10. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 09 Jun 2008 16:50:59 GMT, Jeremy Fisher wrote:

    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    >> victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > That a bit lame, even for you.
    >
    > Most of the issues were simple configurations, hosing grub was not
    > clever, but not difficult to resolve.


    And a Rubick's Cube is not difficult to solve when you know how.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  11. Re: Linux just lets you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, AZ Nomad

    wrote
    on Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:41:26 -0500
    :
    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:15:33 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, AZ Nomad
    >>
    >> wrote
    >>on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:18:46 -0500
    >>:
    >>> On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 19:37:54 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, RonB
    >>>>
    >>>> wrote
    >>>>on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:28:49 -0500
    >>>>:
    >>>>> Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    >>>>> reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Just another reason to like Linux.
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>>NAT eliminates most malware packets; the rest is good drill,
    >>>>known websites, and trusted antiviral software.
    >>>
    >>>>Linux has not as much an advantage here as people might think,
    >>>>especially since ISPs are getting into the act and applying
    >>>>filters to suspect websites.
    >>>
    >>> The difference is that most linux users don't do all their work
    >>> as root. One's web browser simply hasn't the ability to install the
    >>> kinds of malware that are trivial to install from a web browser run
    >>> by a windows administrator.

    >
    >>You're right; there is that vector. I would hope Vista
    >>fixes this but rather doubt it; the UAC solution (did

    >
    > It doesn't even come close. The standard user on vista is still an
    > administrator. The web browser and other heavyweight applications are
    > expected to enforce security. At the OS level, any app the default vista
    > user runs can overwrite any part of the system at any time.
    >
    > Security on vista is a big joke.


    I wouldn't know firsthand but suspect you're right...and
    that's just like UAC, really.

    The *other* UAC, that is.

    http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/UAC

    as opposed to

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...ntcontrol.mspx

    :-)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Insert random misquote here.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  12. Re: Linux just makes you work, DFS dishonesty.

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:26:57 -0500, Rick wrote:

    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >
    >> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>
    >> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes 30-45
    >> minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't this
    >> victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >
    > opensuse != Linux.


    Yea, we've heard it all before.
    Linux is the kernel (for this argument anyhow).
    Except when Linux isn't the kernel.

    More Linux loon dodging tactics,.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  13. Re: Linux just makes you work

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > Vista install is *nonexistent*. The OEM does it for you.


    Guess I imagined it.



    >> Don't let the Mac ad agency see this:
    >>
    >> http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...8_licenses.png

    >
    > Impressive, though not in a good way. Which distro is this?
    > Looks like it might be RedHat Enterprise but can't be sure.


    I wouldn't be surprised a bit if RedHat and Novell had that many server
    versions. That's WinServer08 of course.




  14. Re: Linux just makes you work

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS

    wrote
    on Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:59:10 -0400
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> Vista install is *nonexistent*. The OEM does it for you.

    >
    > Guess I imagined it.


    Maybe...but most new computers have Vista preinstalled. Hard to beat a
    null-set of install instructions when one wants to minimize time spent.

    Instructions to Install Microsoft Windows Vista:

    [1] Plug machine in.
    [2] Turn machine on.
    [3] .... you're done; congratulations!

    Now, one might be able to optimize away [1] if the
    machine has a battery, but [2]'s difficult to sidestep.
    Nevertheless, Linux does nothing at all in those areas;
    therefore a preinstalled Vista box is optimal from an
    installation standpoint, unless one changes the problem
    (e.g., one wants additional software, changes machine,
    wants to split the partition in half).

    >
    >
    >
    >>> Don't let the Mac ad agency see this:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.angelfire.com/linux/dfs0/...8_licenses.png

    >>
    >> Impressive, though not in a good way. Which distro is this?
    >> Looks like it might be RedHat Enterprise but can't be sure.

    >
    > I wouldn't be surprised a bit if RedHat and Novell had that many server
    > versions. That's WinServer08 of course.
    >


    Couldn't be. Win8 doesn't have that many versions.
    Linux is too confusing. Ask Hadron. ;-)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  15. Re: Linux just lets you work

    On 2008-06-10, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, RonB
    >
    > wrote
    > on Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:28:49 -0500
    >:
    >> Isn't it great? No daily Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware drill. No suggested
    >> reboots -- just sit at the computer and start working.
    >>
    >> Just another reason to like Linux.
    >>

    >
    > NAT eliminates most malware packets; the rest is good drill,
    > known websites, and trusted antiviral software.
    >
    > Linux has not as much an advantage here as people might think,


    Sure it does.

    It has more paranoid apps...

    Firefox vs. Internet Exploder.

    Firefox is a lot less promiscuous by default and allows you
    to lock everything left down pretty nicely.

    > especially since ISPs are getting into the act and applying
    > filters to suspect websites.
    >



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  16. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 2008-06-10, DFS wrote:
    > Rick wrote:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >>> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >>> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> opensuse != Linux.

    >
    > hmmm...is that the same as: Fedora != Linux?
    >
    > Cause last week you were telling me Fedora is Linux.
    >
    > Then again that was last week, and back then you were talking out of a
    > different side of your mouth.


    It boils down pretty simply to the following...

    "server Linux" != "desktop Linux"

    People who are interested in enabling you to get support for
    your enterprise apps that cost 60K per cpu probably aren't
    too interested in providing what a consumer Dell customer
    would think of as a "good desktop experience".

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  17. Re: Linux just makes you work

    On 2008-06-10, DFS wrote:
    > ray wrote:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:37:22 -0400, DFS wrote:
    >>
    >>> "My new Toshiba A200 (PSAF1A) works beautifully after a week of hard
    >>> work getting opensuse 10.3 to work."
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/in...howtopic=63815
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't understand: cola wacks have repeatedly spewed "Linux takes
    >>> 30-45 minutes to install and everything just works!" So why didn't
    >>> this victim experience the mythical half hour?

    >>
    >> Probably because he's totally inexperienced and did a lot of
    >> unnecessary fiddling.

    >
    > So Linux "just works" for experienced users? The rest of us are SOL?
    >
    >
    >
    >> It's still, most likely, less than half the
    >> time he'd expend installing MS.

    >
    > You think he would spend 2 weeks of hard work getting XP or Vista to work on
    > his laptop?


    No, he would just use an OEM restore image.

    If it were up to the common user to install their own Windows from
    scratch, PC marketshare would be like it was in the DOS days.

    >
    > Not a chance, ray. No frickin' way.
    >
    >
    >



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