[News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback - Linux ; "Moshe Goldfarb." writes: > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:18:59 +0100, Homer wrote: > >> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly: >> >>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their >>> first programming steps. ...

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Thread: [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback

  1. Re: [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback

    "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:

    > On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:18:59 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their
    >>> first programming steps. Pretty much like "the turtle program" in the
    >>> 1980's.
    >>>
    >>> BASIC is for kiddies :-p

    >>
    >> IMHO BASIC is not even fit for educational purposes, since it encourages
    >> the extremely bad habits of unstructured programming. Pascal and SML are
    >> far better teaching languages, although I'd be disinclined to encourage
    >> their use beyond the classroom. Frankly I think it might be better to
    >> have them dive into the deep end on day one, with C/C++, and start as
    >> they mean to go on.

    >
    > I sort of agree with this one.
    > BASIC is good for very young potential programmers so that they can learn
    > how the computer functions.
    > IOW people just starting out.
    >
    > For future programmers, say high school on up, a structured language is a
    > better alternative because it will teach them good solid programming skills
    > and work habits that can be transported to any language they might learn
    > later on.


    There is this awful habit here of assuming all BASICs are the same. It
    is not so. You can structure BASIC. Not that I would necessarily
    advocate it - but fairs fair.

    --
    It explains a lot. I've not heard of anyone I know, anywhere, buying XP,
    and I've not seen it sold whilst I've been in any shops.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  2. Re: [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback

    On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:33:54 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > "Moshe Goldfarb." writes:
    >
    >> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:18:59 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>
    >>> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly:
    >>>
    >>>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their
    >>>> first programming steps. Pretty much like "the turtle program" in the
    >>>> 1980's.
    >>>>
    >>>> BASIC is for kiddies :-p
    >>>
    >>> IMHO BASIC is not even fit for educational purposes, since it encourages
    >>> the extremely bad habits of unstructured programming. Pascal and SML are
    >>> far better teaching languages, although I'd be disinclined to encourage
    >>> their use beyond the classroom. Frankly I think it might be better to
    >>> have them dive into the deep end on day one, with C/C++, and start as
    >>> they mean to go on.

    >>
    >> I sort of agree with this one.
    >> BASIC is good for very young potential programmers so that they can learn
    >> how the computer functions.
    >> IOW people just starting out.
    >>
    >> For future programmers, say high school on up, a structured language is a
    >> better alternative because it will teach them good solid programming skills
    >> and work habits that can be transported to any language they might learn
    >> later on.

    >
    > There is this awful habit here of assuming all BASICs are the same. It
    > is not so. You can structure BASIC. Not that I would necessarily
    > advocate it - but fairs fair.


    That's the mistake I have made
    Not being a programmer, but having dabbled in programming although not for
    years, I am wired to hear "spaghetti code" when someone mentions BASIC.

    I shall leave the programming rebuttals to others with more knowledge than
    I have.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  3. Re: [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback


    "DFS" wrote in message
    news:I233k.1615$PZ6.762@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
    > ml2mst wrote:
    >> Homer wrote:
    >>

    >
    >> If you start coding in a /real/ language from day one, you will become a
    >> great coder, because you learned /properly/ coding right from the start.

    >
    > A great coder isn't great because of the language - a great coder is great
    > in spite of the language.


    The ability to look at a problem and come up with a logical and efficient
    solution is common across all programming languages.


    >
    >> If you start with something ugly as BASIC, you will fall back on BASIC
    >> and your bad habits all the time, simply because you don't know anything
    >> else but crappy coding.

    >
    > You must be speaking from experience.


    For some reason the "advocates" seem to know nothing about BASIC beyond what
    existed in the 1980's. Obviously they never got the memo that basic has
    evoloved into a much more powerful and structured language than what existed
    25 years ago.



    >> For example, ask a (non native English speaking) typical old school
    >> BASIC coder what a pointer is :-)

    >
    > What's a pointer?


    Ask someone who programs in Java or Python what a pointer is. Somehow those
    languages manage just fine without pointers




    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  4. Re: [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback

    ml2mst espoused:
    > Homer wrote:
    >
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their
    >>> first programming steps. Pretty much like "the turtle program" in the
    >>> 1980's.
    >>>
    >>> BASIC is for kiddies :-p

    >>
    >> IMHO BASIC is not even fit for educational purposes, since it encourages
    >> the extremely bad habits of unstructured programming. Pascal and SML are
    >> far better teaching languages, although I'd be disinclined to encourage
    >> their use beyond the classroom. Frankly I think it might be better to
    >> have them dive into the deep end on day one, with C/C++, and start as
    >> they mean to go on.
    >>

    > I fully agree with that.
    >
    > If you start coding in a /real/ language from day one, you will become a
    > great coder, because you learned /properly/ coding right from the start.
    >
    > If you start with something ugly as BASIC, you will fall back on BASIC
    > and your bad habits all the time, simply because you don't know anything
    > else but crappy coding.
    >
    > For example, ask a (non native English speaking) typical old school
    > BASIC coder what a pointer is :-)
    >
    > It is pretty difficult for many (ex) BASIC coder to learn properly
    > coding in a decent language later.
    >


    Hear hear.

    I've often wondered at the value of teaching beginner versions of
    anything, as it just means one ends up learning a second thing anyway.

    The funny thing is that if you look at simple c programmes, they're
    really not that difficult to write, and whilst there are some gotchas
    around string handling for those people who've *already learnt basic*,
    if it's the first language you're learning, then it won't be a problem,
    because it's the way you'll learn from the start.

    I quite like pascal, but in the end, why bother if you can learn c in
    the first place?

    --
    | mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |


  5. Re: [News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback

    "Mark Kent" schreef in bericht
    news:mmidi5-se9.ln1@ellandroad.demon.co.uk...

    *PLONK*

    > ml2mst


    *PLOINK*



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