[News] Delphi for Linux Might Make Comeback

"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:18:59 +0100, Homer wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their
>>> first programming steps. Pretty much like "the turtle program" in the
>>> 1980's.
>>>
>>> BASIC is for kiddies :-p[/color]
>>
>> IMHO BASIC is not even fit for educational purposes, since it encourages
>> the extremely bad habits of unstructured programming. Pascal and SML are
>> far better teaching languages, although I'd be disinclined to encourage
>> their use beyond the classroom. Frankly I think it might be better to
>> have them dive into the deep end on day one, with C/C++, and start as
>> they mean to go on.[/color]
>
> I sort of agree with this one.
> BASIC is good for very young potential programmers so that they can learn
> how the computer functions.
> IOW people just starting out.
>
> For future programmers, say high school on up, a structured language is a
> better alternative because it will teach them good solid programming skills
> and work habits that can be transported to any language they might learn
> later on.[/color]

There is this awful habit here of assuming all BASICs are the same. It
is not so. You can structure BASIC. Not that I would necessarily
advocate it - but fairs fair.

--
It explains a lot. I've not heard of anyone I know, anywhere, buying XP,
and I've not seen it sold whilst I've been in any shops.
comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:33:54 +0200, Hadron wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> writes:
>[color=green]
>> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:18:59 +0100, Homer wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly:
>>>
>>>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their
>>>> first programming steps. Pretty much like "the turtle program" in the
>>>> 1980's.
>>>>
>>>> BASIC is for kiddies :-p
>>>
>>> IMHO BASIC is not even fit for educational purposes, since it encourages
>>> the extremely bad habits of unstructured programming. Pascal and SML are
>>> far better teaching languages, although I'd be disinclined to encourage
>>> their use beyond the classroom. Frankly I think it might be better to
>>> have them dive into the deep end on day one, with C/C++, and start as
>>> they mean to go on.[/color]
>>
>> I sort of agree with this one.
>> BASIC is good for very young potential programmers so that they can learn
>> how the computer functions.
>> IOW people just starting out.
>>
>> For future programmers, say high school on up, a structured language is a
>> better alternative because it will teach them good solid programming skills
>> and work habits that can be transported to any language they might learn
>> later on.[/color]
>
> There is this awful habit here of assuming all BASICs are the same. It
> is not so. You can structure BASIC. Not that I would necessarily
> advocate it - but fairs fair.[/color]

That's the mistake I have made :(
Not being a programmer, but having dabbled in programming although not for
years, I am wired to hear "spaghetti code" when someone mentions BASIC.

I shall leave the programming rebuttals to others with more knowledge than
I have.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
[url]http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/[/url]

"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
news:I233k.1615$PZ6.762@bignews5.bellsouth.net...[color=blue]
> ml2mst wrote:[color=green]
>> Homer wrote:
>>[/color]
>[color=green]
>> If you start coding in a /real/ language from day one, you will become a
>> great coder, because you learned /properly/ coding right from the start.[/color]
>
> A great coder isn't great because of the language - a great coder is great
> in spite of the language.[/color]

The ability to look at a problem and come up with a logical and efficient
solution is common across all programming languages.

[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> If you start with something ugly as BASIC, you will fall back on BASIC
>> and your bad habits all the time, simply because you don't know anything
>> else but crappy coding.[/color]
>
> You must be speaking from experience.[/color]

For some reason the "advocates" seem to know nothing about BASIC beyond what
existed in the 1980's. Obviously they never got the memo that basic has
evoloved into a much more powerful and structured language than what existed
25 years ago.


[color=blue][color=green]
>> For example, ask a (non native English speaking) typical old school
>> BASIC coder what a pointer is :-)[/color]
>
> What's a pointer?[/color]

Ask someone who programs in Java or Python what a pointer is. Somehow those
languages manage just fine without pointers




** Posted from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url] **

ml2mst <ml2mst@gmail.com> espoused:[color=blue]
> Homer wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Verily I say unto thee, that ml2mst spake thusly:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Gambas is considered a educational tool for kids, learning their
>>> first programming steps. Pretty much like "the turtle program" in the
>>> 1980's.
>>>
>>> BASIC is for kiddies :-p[/color]
>>
>> IMHO BASIC is not even fit for educational purposes, since it encourages
>> the extremely bad habits of unstructured programming. Pascal and SML are
>> far better teaching languages, although I'd be disinclined to encourage
>> their use beyond the classroom. Frankly I think it might be better to
>> have them dive into the deep end on day one, with C/C++, and start as
>> they mean to go on.
>>[/color]
> I fully agree with that.
>
> If you start coding in a /real/ language from day one, you will become a
> great coder, because you learned /properly/ coding right from the start.
>
> If you start with something ugly as BASIC, you will fall back on BASIC
> and your bad habits all the time, simply because you don't know anything
> else but crappy coding.
>
> For example, ask a (non native English speaking) typical old school
> BASIC coder what a pointer is :-)
>
> It is pretty difficult for many (ex) BASIC coder to learn properly
> coding in a decent language later.
>[/color]

Hear hear.

I've often wondered at the value of teaching beginner versions of
anything, as it just means one ends up learning a second thing anyway.

The funny thing is that if you look at simple c programmes, they're
really not that difficult to write, and whilst there are some gotchas
around string handling for those people who've *already learnt basic*,
if it's the first language you're learning, then it won't be a problem,
because it's the way you'll learn from the start.

I quite like pascal, but in the end, why bother if you can learn c in
the first place?

--
| mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
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| Cola trolls: [url]http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/[/url] |
| Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |

"Mark Kent" <mark.kent@demon.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:mmidi5-se9.ln1@ellandroad.demon.co.uk...

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[color=blue]
> ml2mst <ml2mst@gmail.com>[/color]

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