XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX - Linux

This is a discussion on XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX - Linux ; Hello All! I just pickup up an xlt300 cheaply on ebay and didnt check beforehand if it will runn linux or even tru64. but looking around I can find no srm console for this baby. does one exist? what if ...

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Thread: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

  1. XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Hello All!

    I just pickup up an xlt300 cheaply on ebay and didnt check beforehand
    if it will runn linux or even tru64. but looking around I can find no
    srm console for this baby. does one exist? what if anything can I run
    besides nt on this puppy?

    your help is very appreciated!

    rick


  2. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    rick wrote:
    > Hello All!


    > I just pickup up an xlt300 cheaply on ebay and didnt check beforehand
    > if it will runn linux or even tru64. but looking around I can find no
    > srm console for this baby. does one exist? what if anything can I run
    > besides nt on this puppy?


    It can certainly run Windows NT (it was designed for this after all) and
    I've run various flavors of Linux on my XL-366. Indeed, I plan to install
    AlphaCore on it shortly to see if it works.

    As the XL series does not have SRM, VMS and Tru64 are out of contention.
    I guess some flavors of BSD will also run, but I've never tried it personally.
    --
    Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
    Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the
    Australia | air, the sky would be painted green"

  3. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use MILO... In other
    words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you had access to the SRM
    console, your Penguin would be 64bit using Aboot ... sorry about that, Will
    L G

    "rick" wrote in message
    news:fdb7a1dmuk1bnh4qel0eh88l7tqljdfh61@4ax.com...
    > Hello All!
    >
    > I just pickup up an xlt300 cheaply on ebay and didnt check beforehand
    > if it will runn linux or even tru64. but looking around I can find no
    > srm console for this baby. does one exist? what if anything can I run
    > besides nt on this puppy?
    >
    > your help is very appreciated!
    >
    > rick
    >




  4. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    " DiskMan" writes:

    > You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use MILO... In other
    > words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you had access to the SRM
    > console, your Penguin would be 64bit using Aboot ... sorry about that, Will
    > L G


    Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

  5. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Måns Rullgård wrote:
    > " DiskMan" writes:
    >
    >
    >>You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use MILO... In other
    >>words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you had access to the SRM
    >>console, your Penguin would be 64bit using Aboot ... sorry about that, Will
    >>L G

    >
    >
    > Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    > boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    > and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    > The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.
    >


    i seem to remember very long ago running Linux kernel 1.3 on my Jensen
    and i beleive it was 32-bit... whatever 32-bit at the time meant.

    --

    BOFH excuse #336: The cause of the problem is: the butane lighter causes
    the pincushioning

  6. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    UNIX pSyChO writes:

    > Måns Rullgård wrote:
    >> " DiskMan" writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>>You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use MILO... In other
    >>>words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you had access to the SRM
    >>>console, your Penguin would be 64bit using Aboot ... sorry about that, Will
    >>>L G

    >>
    >>
    >> Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    >> boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    >> and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    >> The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.
    >>

    >
    > i seem to remember very long ago running Linux kernel 1.3 on my Jensen
    > and i beleive it was 32-bit... whatever 32-bit at the time meant.


    Two things, Linux 1.3 was quite a while ago, and the Jensen is a
    somewhat strange machine.

    Regarding the number of bits, the Alpha CPU always uses 64-bit
    registers, there's nothing the OS can do about that. Just a wild
    guess, but maybe the 32-bit you remember was something like processes
    using a 32-bit address space. Alpha machines do not ever use a full
    64-bit address space. For instance, the EV5 uses 43-bit virtual and
    40-bit physical addresses. I don't have the specs for the EV6 and EV7
    at hand.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

  7. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Måns Rullgård writes:
    > Regarding the number of bits, the Alpha CPU always uses 64-bit
    > registers, there's nothing the OS can do about that. Just a wild
    > guess, but maybe the 32-bit you remember was something like processes
    > using a 32-bit address space.
    > [...]


    I concur, I've got a wierd LX164 clone that only runs AlphaBIOS and it's 64
    bits all the way (and like Måns says the CPU doesn't have a 32 vs 64 bits
    mode like the Sparcs or the new x86_64 cpus).

    PS: Måns, what is the compose sequence to create the "å"?
    --
    Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer
    "Le disparu, si l'on vénère sa mémoire, est plus présent et
    plus puissant que le vivant".
    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Citadelle --

  8. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer writes:

    > Måns Rullgård writes:
    >> Regarding the number of bits, the Alpha CPU always uses 64-bit
    >> registers, there's nothing the OS can do about that. Just a wild
    >> guess, but maybe the 32-bit you remember was something like processes
    >> using a 32-bit address space.
    >> [...]

    >
    > I concur, I've got a wierd LX164 clone that only runs AlphaBIOS and it's 64
    > bits all the way (and like Måns says the CPU doesn't have a 32 vs 64 bits
    > mode like the Sparcs or the new x86_64 cpus).


    The Alpha does have a different mode setting though. It can be set to
    either big or little endian. All the workstations from Digital use
    little endian mode. The Cray T3E uses the Alpha in big endian mode,
    but I'd be surprised if anyone in this newsgroup had one of those.

    > PS: Måns, what is the compose sequence to create the "å"?


    On Scandinavian keyboards it has a dedicated key. With other layouts
    you can use compose-a-a. In Norwegian and Danish, the letter is
    rather frequently replaced with "aa", for reasons I do not know, and
    in TeX the command \aa produces an "å" in the output.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

  9. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Måns Rullgård writes:
    > The Alpha does have a different mode setting though. It can be set to
    > either big or little endian. All the workstations from Digital use
    > little endian mode. The Cray T3E uses the Alpha in big endian mode,
    > but I'd be surprised if anyone in this newsgroup had one of those.


    lol

    > On Scandinavian keyboards it has a dedicated key. With other layouts
    > you can use compose-a-a. In Norwegian and Danish, the letter is
    > rather frequently replaced with "aa", for reasons I do not know, and
    > in TeX the command \aa produces an "å" in the output.


    Hah, the Germans do the same with the ß vs ss but compose-a-a doesn't work
    here... I'll look at my keyboard map.
    --
    Mathieu Chouquet-Stringer
    "Le disparu, si l'on vénère sa mémoire, est plus présent et
    plus puissant que le vivant".
    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Citadelle --

  10. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Does that mean Window NT 4 will be 64bit if its installed? Will LG

    "Måns Rullgård" wrote in message
    news:yw1xu0kah9z3.fsf@ford.inprovide.com...
    > " DiskMan" writes:
    >
    > > You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use MILO... In

    other
    > > words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you had access to the SRM
    > > console, your Penguin would be 64bit using Aboot ... sorry about that,

    Will
    > > L G

    >
    > Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    > boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    > and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    > The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.
    >
    > --
    > Måns Rullgård
    > mru@inprovide.com




  11. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    " DiskMan" writes:

    > "Måns Rullgård" wrote...
    >> " DiskMan" writes:
    >>
    >> > You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use
    >> > MILO... In other words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you
    >> > had access to the SRM console, your Penguin would be 64bit using
    >> > Aboot ... sorry about that, Will L G

    >>
    >> Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    >> boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    >> and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    >> The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.

    >
    > Does that mean Window NT 4 will be 64bit if its installed? Will LG


    Nobody said you have to actually use those 32 additional bits. I
    don't know if winnt does.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

  12. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Måns Rullgård wrote:
    > " DiskMan" writes:


    > > "Måns Rullgård" wrote...
    > >> " DiskMan" writes:
    > >>
    > >> > You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use
    > >> > MILO... In other words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you
    > >> > had access to the SRM console, your Penguin would be 64bit using
    > >> > Aboot ... sorry about that, Will L G
    > >>
    > >> Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    > >> boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    > >> and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    > >> The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.

    > >
    > > Does that mean Window NT 4 will be 64bit if its installed? Will LG


    > Nobody said you have to actually use those 32 additional bits. I
    > don't know if winnt does.


    WinNT4 in Alpha is only 32bit, it's almost compiled from x86 sources and
    has only few changes. Its kinda dummy to use only 32bits in 64bit system,
    but MS wanted that way, somehow easier to port but lacks possible new
    features.

    And when OS is running on 32bit's, programs must be 32bits even if
    processor is 64bit.

    IIRC2, Endianess in Alpha where chosen by hardware. You cannot change
    processor's endianess from software and hardly never from hardware
    (jumpers/etc..).

    There was some rumours that some Cray's could be configured to little or
    big endian, only rumour.
    All Alpha workstations what DEC built were little endian, and so were
    Samsung and others.



  13. Re: XLT300 AND ALPHA LINUX

    Juhana Paavola writes:

    > Måns Rullgård wrote:
    >> " DiskMan" writes:

    >
    >> > "Måns Rullgård" wrote...
    >> >> " DiskMan" writes:
    >> >>
    >> >> > You can run linux under ArchBIOS but you will have to use
    >> >> > MILO... In other words, your Penguin will only be 32bit. If you
    >> >> > had access to the SRM console, your Penguin would be 64bit using
    >> >> > Aboot ... sorry about that, Will L G
    >> >>
    >> >> Sorry, but you are mistaken. Alpha is always 64-bit, whatever the
    >> >> boot loader or firmware. The only significant difference between SRM
    >> >> and AlphaBIOS once the OS is running is what PAL-code you're using.
    >> >> The SRM PAL-code is said to be better.
    >> >
    >> > Does that mean Window NT 4 will be 64bit if its installed? Will LG

    >
    >> Nobody said you have to actually use those 32 additional bits. I
    >> don't know if winnt does.

    >
    > WinNT4 in Alpha is only 32bit, it's almost compiled from x86 sources and
    > has only few changes. Its kinda dummy to use only 32bits in 64bit system,
    > but MS wanted that way, somehow easier to port but lacks possible new
    > features.
    >
    > And when OS is running on 32bit's, programs must be 32bits even if
    > processor is 64bit.


    They will be restricted to a 32-bit address space, but applications
    can still use 64-bit math, and 64-bit memory accesses.

    > IIRC2, Endianess in Alpha where chosen by hardware. You cannot change
    > processor's endianess from software and hardly never from hardware
    > (jumpers/etc..).


    The exact manner in which it is set varies between models. On the
    EV5, it is set by early firmware, prior to accessing any external
    data. Changing the mode later is probably not a good idea.

    > There was some rumours that some Cray's could be configured to little or
    > big endian, only rumour.


    From what I've heard, the Alpha based Crays were always run in big
    endian mode. Few, if any, systems have ever been built to be run more
    than one mode.

    > All Alpha workstations what DEC built were little endian, and so were
    > Samsung and others.


    True.

    --
    Måns Rullgård
    mru@inprovide.com

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