Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care......... - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care......... - Linux ; "George Graves" wrote in message news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net... > On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote > (in article ): > >> >> "George Graves" wrote in message >> news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net... >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, ...

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Thread: Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

  1. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........


    "George Graves" wrote in message
    news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    > On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >>
    >> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >> news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    >>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>
    >>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>> routers,
    >>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>> where
    >>>> it's completely invisible.
    >>>>
    >>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>
    >>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
    >>> to
    >>> this discussion.

    >>
    >> Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?

    >
    >>
    >> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
    >> Netgear, D-Link?

    >
    > Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.


    Good for you. But you didn't answer. Do you have a Linksys/Netgear/D-Link
    or other WAP running Linux? How about the cell phone? What about the web
    cam?

    Sad fact is even Microsoft (or Apple) bigots often run Linux and are too
    stupid to know it. Which is where I was targeting this for. They bash
    Linux for no other reason than fear, FUD, and self indulgent BS.

    The fact is Linux penetration into the market is far more intense than
    Microsoft would like you to know. They bash it, but are really just showing
    their utter ignorance.




  2. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........


    "Moshe, Goldfarb." wrote in message
    news:11o0a1m5po30f$.fg0f5dhkr4el$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
    > On Tue, 27 May 2008 23:45:02 -0700, George Graves wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
    >>> Netgear, D-Link?

    >>
    >> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >
    > Virtually nobody.
    >
    > I don't care what OS my car's ECM is running anymore than I care what OS
    > my
    > cell phone is using.
    >
    > Only Linux dweebs who need to show that someone somewhere wants Linux
    > would
    > care about stuff like that.


    I would car about which OS my car was running:

    Allstate: What happened?
    Driver: Not sure, the car was moving and unresponsive for 5 seconds....
    Allstate: What model is that?
    Driver: WinCar2010
    Allstate: Sorry, we don't insure those, they are uninsurable.

    But I hear you. Most people don't know for give a flying bats ass about
    what is inside their cell phone or WAP or Tivo or .... as long as it works.
    But when a Vista bigot criticises Linux, they should know in all probability
    they depend on it somewhere in their lives. And come off as hypocrites.







  3. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........


    "George Graves" wrote in message
    news:0001HW.C4630BB6000E1607F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    > On Wed, 28 May 2008 01:50:24 -0700, Cuphea Ignea wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >> news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net
    >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >>>> news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>>>> (in article ):
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were
    >>>>>>> growing that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>>>> routers,
    >>>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>>>> where it's completely invisible.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of
    >>>>> irrelevant to
    >>>>> this discussion.
    >>>>
    >>>> Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
    >>>> Netgear, D-Link?
    >>>
    >>> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >>
    >> It does nothing Linux could not do for free. THINK ABOUT IT.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > What kind of an idiot are you, anyway? The Apple TV box is a set-top box.
    > The
    > OS is installed in ROM by the manufacturer (in this case, Apple), I.E. its
    > embedded. You don't get to choose it just like you can't choose the OS
    > embedded in your car, your cell phone, or your cable TV box. It's just
    > THERE.
    > Jeeze, you're stupid.


    You know Apple TV is not running Vista or any MS-Windows. Near as I can
    tell it runs OSX, derived from F/OSS BSD.



  4. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........


    "Bill Yanaire" wrote in message
    news:60d94646-0c1a-41cf-9822-0e835cedd18b@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
    On May 28, 1:46 pm, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    > On 2008-05-28, George Graves wrote:
    >
    > > On Wed, 28 May 2008 01:50:24 -0700, Cuphea Ignea wrote
    > > (in article ):

    >
    > >> "George Graves" wrote in message
    > >>news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net
    > >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    > >>> (in article ):

    >
    > >>>> "George Graves" wrote in message
    > >>>>news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    > >>>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    > >>>>> (in article ):

    >
    > >>>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:

    >
    > >>>>>>> "7" wrote in message
    > >>>>>>>news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    > >>>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:

    >
    > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    > >>>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.

    > [deletia]
    > >>> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >
    > >> It does nothing Linux could not do for free. THINK ABOUT IT.

    >
    > > What kind of an idiot are you, anyway? The Apple TV box is a set-top
    > > box. The
    > > OS is installed in ROM by the manufacturer (in this case, Apple), I.E.
    > > its
    > > embedded. You don't get to choose it just like you can't choose the OS

    >
    > ...this isn't strictly true.
    >
    > The Apple TV is a stripped down Mac. A Tivo is a genuine embedded system.
    >
    > > embedded in your car, your cell phone, or your cable TV box. It's just
    > > THERE.
    > > Jeeze, you're stupid.

    >
    > Nope, you're just clueless.
    >
    > There are plenty of "embedded" devices that you can replace the firmware
    > on.
    > This can be a pretty handy trick and allow you to really improve upon what
    > the original vendor bundled.
    >

    ---
    >OK - Name 3 of them.

    ---

    If you think this is hard to do, you need to read better stuff.

    But to help you:

    http://linuxdevices.com/

    And there is always the popular selling Eee PC w. Linux that Amazon can't
    keep in stock. But XP is available.



  5. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    Canuck57 wrote:

    > "George Graves" wrote in message
    > news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >
    >>On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    >>(in article ):
    >>
    >>
    >>>"George Graves" wrote in message
    >>>news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>>
    >>>>On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>>>(in article ):
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>"7" wrote in message
    >>>>>>news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>No way. Source?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>You are out of date!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    >>>>>>that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>>>routers,
    >>>>>to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>>>where
    >>>>>it's completely invisible.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>>
    >>>>Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
    >>>>to
    >>>>this discussion.
    >>>
    >>>Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?

    >>
    >>>Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
    >>>Netgear, D-Link?

    >>
    >>Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >
    >
    > Good for you. But you didn't answer. Do you have a Linksys/Netgear/D-Link
    > or other WAP running Linux? How about the cell phone? What about the web
    > cam?
    >
    > Sad fact is even Microsoft (or Apple) bigots often run Linux and are too
    > stupid to know it. Which is where I was targeting this for. They bash
    > Linux for no other reason than fear, FUD, and self indulgent BS.
    >

    So? You bash MS/Vista all the time and everyone knows you have no idea
    what you're talking about.
    You're full of ****!
    Frank
    > The fact is Linux penetration into the market is far more intense than
    > Microsoft would like you to know. They bash it, but are really just showing
    > their utter ignorance.
    >
    >
    >


  6. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    In article ,
    "Canuck57" wrote:
    > Good for you. But you didn't answer. Do you have a Linksys/Netgear/D-Link
    > or other WAP running Linux? How about the cell phone? What about the web
    > cam?


    Who cares? I have a Linksys router with Linux. A friend of mine has
    the same model of Linksys router, without Linux. However, they operate
    identically, and the only way I know mine has Linux and his does not is
    that we looked up the serial numbers on a site that tells you which ones
    have Linux and which ones don't. They have the same functionality, and
    the same web interface.

    That Linux is used in some routers is of no relevance whatsoever when it
    comes to choosing a desktop system.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  7. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........


    "George Graves" wrote in message
    news:0001HW.C4630CD2000E5894F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    > On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> George Graves wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    >>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>
    >>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>> routers,
    >>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>> where
    >>>> it's completely invisible.
    >>>>
    >>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>
    >>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
    >>> to this discussion.

    >>
    >>
    >> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
    >> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.

    >
    > They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care
    > what's
    > powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable
    > TV
    > box. He just cares what features it has and that it works. There's no
    > advocacy involved and if you guys are using embedded systems to bolster
    > your
    > numbers, then you're being dishonest as far as I see it. Embedded systems
    > are
    > NOT a consumer choice and never will be.


    I laugh at your ignorance.

    Embedded low maintenance, low cost and reliable devices ARE what people
    want. And Linux rules this roost. Vista isn't going to run on a ultra-low
    power portable device like a RIM/*Berry. Dream on.

    People will migrate to cost, functionality and value. If the batteries run
    down in an hour because Vista wants to defrag "automatically" they are not
    going to give a crap. They will pick the model that does the same thing but
    lasts 5 times longer and costs less than Vista itself. In this realm of
    appliance devices, Microsoft is too unreliable, fat/bloated and over priced.
    I am not going to buy a $200 cell phone and load $400 Ultimate anything.

    Microsofts business model is decaying. And if it is anything like the
    mainframe days the following occurs.

    -500M desktops say run a MS-OS.
    -Market shrinks to 350M as people use other "appliances", prices go up
    -Prices goes up 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales, Win98, $98,
    Vista U $400+
    -Market shrinks to 220M as it costs too much for MS-OS, appliances bloom,
    Eee PC
    -Prices goes up another 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales

    The last one is where we are about to be.

    Most mainframers in the end dumped mainframes not because of the hardware,
    but with fewer customers for a given software packages the support price
    increases drove them off of mainframes. As vendors with a reduced user base
    raised costs to the users to maintain viability.

    This WILL happen again. MS is over priced, over valued and quite a bit more
    susceptible to a switch change by consumer demand than was
    IBM/Sperry/Amdahl. Happened with IBM, Apple (IIe), Digital, Tandy-RS and
    others. History is just repeating itself and Microsoft is on the falling
    edge this time.

    Win7 will not be cheap. It is in a increasing saturated market and more
    price competitive than ever.

    Ballmer may throw some more chairs, he breaks windows nicely. I wouldn't
    invest in MSFT unless I was made VP of Common Sense at MSFT with a big
    stick.




  8. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........


    "JEDIDIAH" wrote in message

    > Why should we restrict advocacy to mere "consumers"?


    We are not.




  9. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:03:36 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    (in article ):

    >
    > "Moshe, Goldfarb." wrote in message
    > news:11o0a1m5po30f$.fg0f5dhkr4el$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
    >> On Tue, 27 May 2008 23:45:02 -0700, George Graves wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
    >>>> Netgear, D-Link?
    >>>
    >>> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >>
    >> Virtually nobody.
    >>
    >> I don't care what OS my car's ECM is running anymore than I care what OS
    >> my
    >> cell phone is using.
    >>
    >> Only Linux dweebs who need to show that someone somewhere wants Linux
    >> would
    >> care about stuff like that.

    >
    > I would car about which OS my car was running:
    >
    > Allstate: What happened?
    > Driver: Not sure, the car was moving and unresponsive for 5 seconds....
    > Allstate: What model is that?
    > Driver: WinCar2010
    > Allstate: Sorry, we don't insure those, they are uninsurable.
    >
    > But I hear you. Most people don't know for give a flying bats ass about
    > what is inside their cell phone or WAP or Tivo or .... as long as it works.
    > But when a Vista bigot criticises Linux, they should know in all probability
    > they depend on it somewhere in their lives. And come off as hypocrites.


    Actually, you said it yourself. They don't know what OS this stuff is using
    and they don't care. So, they aren't hypocrites, just ignorant.


  10. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    On Wed, 28 May 2008 15:45:58 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    (in article ):

    >
    > "George Graves" wrote in message
    > news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >> On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    >> (in article ):
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >>> news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>>> (in article ):
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    >>>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>>> routers,
    >>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>>> where
    >>>>> it's completely invisible.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
    >>>> to
    >>>> this discussion.
    >>>
    >>> Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?

    >>
    >>>
    >>> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD. Linksys/Cisco,
    >>> Netgear, D-Link?

    >>
    >> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >
    > Good for you. But you didn't answer. Do you have a Linksys/Netgear/D-Link
    > or other WAP running Linux? How about the cell phone? What about the web
    > cam?


    I have a D-link DIR625 802.11N router. I wouldn't suspect that it has any
    operating system. Why would it need it? But more important, like I said
    above, why should I care. It works, I never think about it.
    >
    > Sad fact is even Microsoft (or Apple) bigots often run Linux and are too
    > stupid to know it. Which is where I was targeting this for. They bash
    > Linux for no other reason than fear, FUD, and self indulgent BS.


    I know it some cases. For instance, I know that my Roku HD-1000
    high-definition photo server runs Linux, but I don't care. It was poorly
    designed to begin with and it has quit working (it froze and I can't unfreeze
    it. This is the third sample of the thing I've had, and I'm not gonna fritz
    with it any more). Other things, like my satellite box, I don't know what
    it's running and I also don't care!

    > The fact is Linux penetration into the market is far more intense than
    > Microsoft would like you to know. They bash it, but are really just showing
    > their utter ignorance.




  11. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:37:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    (in article ):

    >
    > "George Graves" wrote in message
    > news:0001HW.C4630CD2000E5894F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >> On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
    >> (in article ):
    >>
    >>> George Graves wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>>> (in article ):
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    >>>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>>> routers,
    >>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>>> where
    >>>>> it's completely invisible.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
    >>>> to this discussion.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
    >>> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.

    >>
    >> They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care
    >> what's
    >> powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable
    >> TV
    >> box. He just cares what features it has and that it works. There's no
    >> advocacy involved and if you guys are using embedded systems to bolster
    >> your
    >> numbers, then you're being dishonest as far as I see it. Embedded systems
    >> are
    >> NOT a consumer choice and never will be.

    >
    > I laugh at your ignorance.
    >
    > Embedded low maintenance, low cost and reliable devices ARE what people
    > want. And Linux rules this roost. Vista isn't going to run on a ultra-low
    > power portable device like a RIM/*Berry. Dream on.


    Low cost and reliable devices ARE what people want. I agree. But nobody cares
    HOW the manufacturers achieve that goal any more than they care, for
    instance, what microcontroller runs the engine management system in their
    car.

    > People will migrate to cost, functionality and value. If the batteries run
    > down in an hour because Vista wants to defrag "automatically" they are not
    > going to give a crap. They will pick the model that does the same thing but
    > lasts 5 times longer and costs less than Vista itself. In this realm of
    > appliance devices, Microsoft is too unreliable, fat/bloated and over priced.
    > I am not going to buy a $200 cell phone and load $400 Ultimate anything.


    The still don't care what's under the hood. You continue to miss the
    essential point here. If Linux is the cheapest embedded system and the system
    that will lower costs, fine, but the consumer doesn't care about that. They
    care only about the results and most won't know whether the appliance in
    question is running embedded Linux or some proprietary embedded OS and most
    importantly, they won't care.
    >
    > Microsofts business model is decaying. And if it is anything like the
    > mainframe days the following occurs.
    >
    > -500M desktops say run a MS-OS.
    > -Market shrinks to 350M as people use other "appliances", prices go up
    > -Prices goes up 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales, Win98, $98,
    > Vista U $400+
    > -Market shrinks to 220M as it costs too much for MS-OS, appliances bloom,
    > Eee PC
    > -Prices goes up another 33% as MS does not want to show lower sales
    >
    > The last one is where we are about to be.
    >
    > Most mainframers in the end dumped mainframes not because of the hardware,
    > but with fewer customers for a given software packages the support price
    > increases drove them off of mainframes. As vendors with a reduced user base
    > raised costs to the users to maintain viability.
    >
    > This WILL happen again. MS is over priced, over valued and quite a bit more
    > susceptible to a switch change by consumer demand than was
    > IBM/Sperry/Amdahl. Happened with IBM, Apple (IIe), Digital, Tandy-RS and
    > others. History is just repeating itself and Microsoft is on the falling
    > edge this time.
    >
    > Win7 will not be cheap. It is in a increasing saturated market and more
    > price competitive than ever.
    >
    > Ballmer may throw some more chairs, he breaks windows nicely. I wouldn't
    > invest in MSFT unless I was made VP of Common Sense at MSFT with a big
    > stick.


    I gotta be honest with you. I don't care about Microsoft either.


  12. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    Moshe Goldfarb (flatfish) in real life Gary Stewart

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  13. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    George Graves wrote:

    > On Wed, 28 May 2008 12:32:55 -0700, 7 wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> George Graves wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    >>>>> that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>
    >>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>> routers,
    >>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of places
    >>>> where it's completely invisible.
    >>>>
    >>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>
    >>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of irrelevant
    >>> to this discussion.

    >>
    >>
    >> It is YOUR claims thar are irrelevant to this discussion
    >> while the OP is a complete micoshaft sponsored lying asstroturfer.

    >
    > They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.


    WTF?
    And who might you be precious?

    Its pretty clear you must be irrelevant to Linux Advocacy
    as far as Linux Advocacy is concerned!

    Linux advocacy is about the WHOLE Linux thing.
    That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of Linux
    servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux desktop
    installs per week.

    Linux is free to copy, modify the source code and distribute
    to heart's content.

    http://www.livecdlist.com
    http://www.distrowatch.com



  14. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    On Wed, 28 May 2008 21:25:12 -0400, 7 wrote:
    > That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of
    > Linux servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux
    > desktop installs per week.


    You say that something like 80 times a day (that's hyperbole) but I must have
    missed that post where you back it up.


  15. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    On Wed, 28 May 2008 21:49:59 -0400, Tim Murray wrote:

    > On Wed, 28 May 2008 21:25:12 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >> That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of
    >> Linux servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux
    >> desktop installs per week.

    >
    > You say that something like 80 times a day (that's hyperbole) but I must have
    > missed that post where you back it up.


    7, aka mjcr, is a Linux loon.
    He doesn't back anything up with facts.
    He makes up the story as he goes along.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  16. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    "George Graves" wrote in message
    news:0001HW.C4630BB6000E1607F01846D8@news.comcast. net
    > On Wed, 28 May 2008 01:50:24 -0700, Cuphea Ignea wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >> news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net
    >>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >>>> news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>>>> (in article ):
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were
    >>>>>>> growing that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>>>> routers,
    >>>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of
    >>>>>> places where it's completely invisible.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of
    >>>>> irrelevant to
    >>>>> this discussion.
    >>>>
    >>>> Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD.
    >>>> Linksys/Cisco, Netgear, D-Link?
    >>>
    >>> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.

    >>
    >> It does nothing Linux could not do for free. THINK ABOUT IT.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > What kind of an idiot are you, anyway? The Apple TV box is a set-top
    > box. The OS is installed in ROM by the manufacturer (in this case,
    > Apple), I.E. its embedded. You don't get to choose it just like you
    > can't choose the OS embedded in your car, your cell phone, or your
    > cable TV box. It's just THERE. Jeeze, you're stupid.


    I can install Linux on a small box and do so without screatching at you.

    --
    http://www.as7apcool.com/



  17. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    Cuphea Ignea wrote:
    > "George Graves" wrote in message
    > news:0001HW.C4630BB6000E1607F01846D8@news.comcast. net
    >> On Wed, 28 May 2008 01:50:24 -0700, Cuphea Ignea wrote
    >> (in article ):
    >>
    >>> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >>> news:0001HW.C4624D7E00309AE6F01846D8@news.comcast. net
    >>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 17:16:06 -0700, Canuck57 wrote
    >>>> (in article ):
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >>>>> news:0001HW.C461AF87000B9499F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>>>>> On Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:39 -0700, JEDIDIAH wrote
    >>>>>> (in article ):
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2008-05-27, John Slade wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> "7" wrote in message
    >>>>>>>> news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >>>>>>>>> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> No way. Source?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> You are out of date!
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Google is your friend.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were
    >>>>>>>> growing that fast. Where did you get that data please?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> It's hard to say. Linux is in a lot of places from phones, to
    >>>>>>> routers,
    >>>>>>> to TV's, to STBs, to mp3 players. It's probably in a lot of
    >>>>>>> places where it's completely invisible.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A lot of people use Linux without realizing it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Embedded and server use is not desktops and therefore sort of
    >>>>>> irrelevant to
    >>>>>> this discussion.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Funny. What do you use for a internet FW/gateway or wireless?
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Darn good chance it runs Linux with BusyBox or a BSD.
    >>>>> Linksys/Cisco, Netgear, D-Link?
    >>>>
    >>>> Who gives a ****? But as far as I know my Apple TV runs on OSX.
    >>>
    >>> It does nothing Linux could not do for free. THINK ABOUT IT.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> What kind of an idiot are you, anyway? The Apple TV box is a set-top
    >> box. The OS is installed in ROM by the manufacturer (in this case,
    >> Apple), I.E. its embedded. You don't get to choose it just like you
    >> can't choose the OS embedded in your car, your cell phone, or your
    >> cable TV box. It's just THERE. Jeeze, you're stupid.

    >
    > I can install Linux on a small box and do so without screatching at
    > you.


    What the **** is "screatching"?

    "Linux makes you stupid." Fact!



  18. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........



    "JEDIDIAH" wrote in message
    news:slrng3rha9.pve.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
    > On 2008-05-28, George Graves wrote:



    >> They are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The end user doesn't care
    >> what's
    >> powering his PDA, Cellphone, digital camera, automobile or set-top cable
    >> TV

    >
    > They should be. Like anything else, those choices will determine
    > whether
    > or not the product is useful or just an annoying pile of crap.
    >
    > Whether or not your Cable Set Top box is a Linux powered Tivo or not
    > is VERY relevant. Someone else here also likes to whine how important
    > the iPhone is because of this.


    Who would want a tivo when they can have a sky+?
    Sky+ doesn't use linux and it is better (cheaper, easier to use, better
    picture quality, less power, etc.) so that argument doesn't hold water.

    Its people who insist on linux however bad the results are that cause
    problems, not the people who will use the best solution whether its linux or
    anything else. They have it right, you are just irrational.


  19. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    John Slade wrote:
    > "7" wrote in message
    > news:l5C_j.9705$DZ6.4072@text.news.virginmedia.com ...
    >> Tim Murray wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:29:52 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >>>> There are 1 million new Linux desktops installed PER WEEK.
    >>> No way. Source?

    >>
    >> You are out of date!
    >>
    >> Google is your friend.
    >>
    >> Go count all the press releases over the last few months.
    >>
    >> There are also 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY.

    >
    > You should back up your claim. It would be great if Linux were growing
    > that fast. Where did you get that data please?



    http://www.geek.com/splashtop-linux-...oard/index.php

    "We first heard about Splashtop back in October, when the instant-on
    Linux desktop was announced. At the time it was a really exciting
    concept–and it still is–but Asus only rolled out the technology on
    high-end motherboards like the P5E3 Deluxe/WiFi-AP. So if you wanted to
    drop $300 on a motherboard you could get Express Gate (Asus-branded
    Splashtop), but everyone else was left out in the cold. Despite lots of
    initial interest, we have not heard a lot about Splashtop since then."


    "DeviceVM, the makers of Splashtop, just made a big announcement though.
    Their technology will no longer be restricted to the top-shelf
    motherboards and will see a much wider release. At first it will be
    featured on Asus’ P5Q (high-efficiency design, Intel P45 chipset) family
    of motherboards, starting with the P5Q Deluxe, P5Q-WS, P5Q3 Deluxe, and
    P5Q-E. Later Splashtop will be featured on all the company’s
    motherboards, over a million units a month."

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/05/prweb942944.htm

    "Branded "Express Gate" by ASUS, Splashtop enables users to access the
    Internet seconds after turning on their PC. Splashtop premiered on
    high-end ASUS motherboards in October 2007 and launched on mainstream M3
    series in January 2008. The newest motherboards will be available in the
    second quarter of 2008."

    "In response to great user feedback, our plan is to proliferate Express
    Gate across our entire motherboard product portfolio, starting with over
    one million motherboards per month," says Joe Hsieh, General Manager,
    ASUS Motherboard Business Unit. "Consumers want to turn their PCs on and
    off like any other appliance, and Express Gate has made that possible."

    http://www.embedded.com/columns/guest/207602734

    "Sony recently announced that one of its BRAVIA LCD TV factories will
    double production from 2 million TV sets per year to 4 million to meet
    growing demand in Europe. Sony has sold more than 20 million of these
    TVs, and they're all built with embedded Linux. "

    "Remember that Gandhi quote? Nobody ignores embedded Linux now. Nobody
    laughs at it. Some companies still fight it by claiming that Linux is
    flawed or isn't worth dealing with, but embedded Linux continues to win."

    "Analyst firms don't agree on how many device engineers use embedded
    Linux, but they all say the number is substantial: 21% of developers use
    embedded Linux, according to last year's Embedded Systems Design survey;
    36.7%, according to current research by Embedded Market Forecasters.
    This April, VDC reported that Linux is now the leading embedded OS. It
    shouldn't be surprising. After all, commercial Linux vendors succeed
    because they understand what design engineers are looking for. "

    http://ciel.sbm.itb.ac.id/index.php?...=125&Itemid=72

    "Linux-related services deliver more than $1 billion in annual revenue
    to both IBM and HP. Oracle strongly promotes and likewise derives
    revenue from the Linux platform, with the so-called "unbreakable Linux"
    guarantee. In an attempt to catch the Linux wave, companies such as
    Computer Associates and Peoplesoft are porting their applications to
    Linux on ambitious timeframes. "


    http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/...-growth_1.html

    "Linux showing signs of solid growth
    IDC study shows workloads running on Linux servers are shifting to
    become more business oriented, including databases and line-of-business
    apps "

    "The IDC paper found that total Linux spending -- including customer
    acquisitions of hardware, software, and related services -- totaled $21
    billion in 2007 and is expected to grow past $50 billion in 2011. "


    http://gigaom.com/2007/11/05/limo-2/

    ABI Research predicts that Mobile Linux will be the fastest growing
    smartphone OS over the next five years and that Linux-based smartphones
    will account for about 31 percent of such devices by 2012. Smartphone
    shipments during this period are expected to total 331 million,
    according to the market research firm. The impetus for such rosy
    forecasts for Mobile Linux comes from the carriers, who are looking to
    standardize on three platforms: Symbian, Windows Mobile and Mobile Linux.

    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  20. Re: Linux and Why Nobody Seems To Care.........

    Tim Murray wrote:

    > On Wed, 28 May 2008 21:25:12 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >> That is 3 million embedded Linux gadgets sold PER DAY, the millions of
    >> Linux servers, most of the world's supercomputers, and 1 million Linux
    >> desktop installs per week.

    >
    > You say that something like 80 times a day (that's hyperbole) but I must
    > have missed that post where you back it up.



    Google is your friend.
    Just count up all the press releases.
    Linux is distributed freely and you are free to copy and install on
    as many places as you want.

    To get independently verifiable low end of the figures, you need to sit down
    and count all the numbers in press releases.

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