On May 23, 6:25*pm, Rick wrote:
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:53:34 -0500, Sgt. Friday wrote:
> > Rick wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 May 2008 20:33:31 -0700, George Graves wrote:
>
> >>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:06:37 -0700, Rick wrote (in article
> >>> ):
>
> >>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:58:35 -0700, George Graves wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:38:29 -0700, Tim Smith wrote (in article
> >>>>> ):
>
[snip]
>
> >> I will rephrase: Open Office is a very good replacement for a large
> >> number of people right now.
>
> > Which people are your going to replace with Open Office?
>
> > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
>
> .. and you think you have any credibility posting from teranews, and with
> the handle of Sgt. Friday?

What kind of "credibility" does he need to make a joke, Rick (the
BONK)?

On Sat, 24 May 2008 14:24:52 -0700, Edwin wrote:

> On May 23, 6:25Â*pm, Rick wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:53:34 -0500, Sgt. Friday wrote:
>> > Rick wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 22 May 2008 20:33:31 -0700, George Graves wrote:
>>
>> >>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:06:37 -0700, Rick wrote (in article
>> >>> ):
>>
>> >>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:58:35 -0700, George Graves wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:38:29 -0700, Tim Smith wrote (in article
>> >>>>> ):
>>
> [snip]
>>
>> >> I will rephrase: Open Office is a very good replacement for a large
>> >> number of people right now.
>>
>> > Which people are your going to replace with Open Office?
>>
>> > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
>>
>> .. and you think you have any credibility posting from teranews, and
>> with the handle of Sgt. Friday?
>
> What kind of "credibility" does he need to make a joke, Rick (the BONK)?


Oh, look, the Eddies are trying to make some kind of point. Maybe they
should take their medication.

--
Rick

On Sat, 24 May 2008 16:27:26 -0400, Linonut wrote:

> * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for
>> very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and
>> e-mail. And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where
>> Unix used to be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And
>> that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for demanding
>> users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific fields.
>
> Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in this
> partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:
>
> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html
>
> I don't see any of the commercial text-to-speech products we're looking
> into on that list, by the way.
>
> Simply put, both you and George are full of it. Here's your idiocy,
> repeated:
>
> "And that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for
> demanding users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific
> fields."
>
> If you're going to troll, you need to have a plausible thesis.

They don't -have- to have one.

--
Rick

In article
<2ada85ff-006f-42e6-8cae-b325c6007433@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Edwin wrote:

> > ZnU:
> > Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major apps
> > on the list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix operating
> > systems once reigned. They don't represent some sort of bottom-up
> > growth of a new desktop app market on Linux. This is what I've
> > been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for very common
> > desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail. And
> > it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used
> > to be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's
> > not enough to make it a viable operating system for demanding
> > users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific fields.

> Edwin:
> ZnU will now explain how Microsoft Silverlight for Linux comprises
> an old Unix application from a "very specific field."

Edwin will now explain how one application is any sign of a trend.

--
Sandman[.net]

In article
<2ada85ff-006f-42e6-8cae-b325c6007433@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Edwin wrote:

> On May 24, 3:03*pm, ZnU wrote:
> > In article <0001HW.C45C777C0016549EF0184...@news.comcast.net>,
> > *George Graves wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:48:40 -0700, Sgt. Friday wrote
> > > (in article ):
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > That's just a small sampling of available "professional grade" Linux
> > > > applications.
> >
> > > Actually, its about all of them, isn't it? So aside from Maya and all its
> > > standalone components, Sybase and its standalone components, 4 CAD
> > > packages,
> > > a Gnu "Visio" knockoff, Matlab, a couple of Adobe "alpha" enabling
> > > plug-ins
> > > for Linux, and a version of Acrobat Reader, what else is there?
> >
> > Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major apps on the
> > list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix operating systems once
> > reigned. They don't represent some sort of bottom-up growth of a new
> > desktop app market on Linux.
> >
> > This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for
> > very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail.
> > And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used to
> > be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's not enough
> > to make it a viable operating system for demanding users, unless they
> > happen to be in certain very specific fields.
>
> ZnU will now explain how Microsoft Silverlight for Linux comprises an
> old Unix application from a "very specific field."

Are you unfamiliar with the meaning of the word "mostly"?

--
"The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
"I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone
"It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix." -- "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X)
'[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)
'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included
on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun)

In article <4S_Zj.19789$255.15895@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
Linonut wrote:

> * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
> > This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for
> > very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail.
> > And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used to
> > be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's not enough
> > to make it a viable operating system for demanding users, unless they
> > happen to be in certain very specific fields.
>
> Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in this
> partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:
>
> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html

Well, I can't speak for everyone in all fields. But I don't see
plausible replacements for Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on that list.

[snip]

--
"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming
out any other way."
* * * * * * * * * * * * --George W. Bush in Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

In article ,
Sandman wrote:

> In article
> <2ada85ff-006f-42e6-8cae-b325c6007433@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> Edwin wrote:
>
> > > ZnU:
> > > Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major apps
> > > on the list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix operating
> > > systems once reigned. They don't represent some sort of bottom-up
> > > growth of a new desktop app market on Linux. This is what I've
> > > been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for very common
> > > desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail. And
> > > it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used
> > > to be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's
> > > not enough to make it a viable operating system for demanding
> > > users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific fields.
>
> > Edwin:
> > ZnU will now explain how Microsoft Silverlight for Linux comprises
> > an old Unix application from a "very specific field."
>
> Edwin will now explain how one application is any sign of a trend.

Silverlight isn't even an application, it's a browser plug-in.

--
"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming
out any other way."
* * * * * * * * * * * * --George W. Bush in Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

ZnU splattered upon for all to feel:
> In article ,
> Sandman wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <2ada85ff-006f-42e6-8cae-b325c6007433@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>> Edwin wrote:
>>
>>>> ZnU:
>>>> Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major apps
>>>> on the list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix operating
>>>> systems once reigned. They don't represent some sort of bottom-up
>>>> growth of a new desktop app market on Linux. This is what I've
>>>> been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for very common
>>>> desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail. And
>>>> it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used
>>>> to be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's
>>>> not enough to make it a viable operating system for demanding
>>>> users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific fields.
>>
>>> Edwin:
>>> ZnU will now explain how Microsoft Silverlight for Linux comprises
>>> an old Unix application from a "very specific field."
>>
>> Edwin will now explain how one application is any sign of a trend.
>
> Silverlight isn't even an application, it's a browser plug-in.

Have you seen the icon? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

--
http://www.as7apcool.com/

In article , "Cuphea Ignea"
wrote:

> > > > > ZnU:
> > > > > Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major
> > > > > apps on the list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix
> > > > > operating systems once reigned. They don't represent some
> > > > > sort of bottom-up growth of a new desktop app market on
> > > > > Linux. This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has
> > > > > some decent apps for very common desktop tasks like web
> > > > > browsing, word processing and e-mail. And it has a
> > > > > scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used to
> > > > > be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And
> > > > > that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for
> > > > > demanding users, unless they happen to be in certain very
> > > > > specific fields.

> > > > Edwin:
> > > > ZnU will now explain how Microsoft Silverlight for Linux
> > > > comprises an old Unix application from a "very specific
> > > > field."

> > > Sandman:
> > > Edwin will now explain how one application is any sign of a
> > > trend.

> > ZnU:
> > Silverlight isn't even an application, it's a browser plug-in.

> Cuphea Ignea:
> Have you seen the icon? Do you have any idea what you are talking
> about?

Are you saying it IS an application based on the appearance of the
*icon*?

--
Sandman[.net]

"Sandman" wrote in message
news:mr-1C0F04.08151626052008@News.Individual.NET
> In article , "Cuphea Ignea"
> wrote:
>
>>>>>> ZnU:
>>>>>> Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major
>>>>>> apps on the list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix
>>>>>> operating systems once reigned. They don't represent some
>>>>>> sort of bottom-up growth of a new desktop app market on
>>>>>> Linux. This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has
>>>>>> some decent apps for very common desktop tasks like web
>>>>>> browsing, word processing and e-mail. And it has a
>>>>>> scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used to
>>>>>> be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And
>>>>>> that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for
>>>>>> demanding users, unless they happen to be in certain very
>>>>>> specific fields.
>
>>>>> Edwin:
>>>>> ZnU will now explain how Microsoft Silverlight for Linux
>>>>> comprises an old Unix application from a "very specific
>>>>> field."
>
>>>> Sandman:
>>>> Edwin will now explain how one application is any sign of a
>>>> trend.
>
>>> ZnU:
>>> Silverlight isn't even an application, it's a browser plug-in.
>
>> Cuphea Ignea:
>> Have you seen the icon? Do you have any idea what you are talking
>> about?
>
> Are you saying it IS an application based on the appearance of the
> *icon*?

Are you saying it IS NOT?

--
http://www.as7apcool.com/

On Mon, 26 May 2008 01:33:05 -0700, Cuphea Ignea wrote
(in article ):

> ZnU splattered upon for all to feel:
>> In article <4S_Zj.19789$255.15895@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
>> Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>
>>>> This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps
>>>> for very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing
>>>> and e-mail. And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets
>>>> where Unix used to be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about
>>>> it. And that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for
>>>> demanding users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific
>>>> fields.
>>>
>>> Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in
>>> this partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:
>>>
>>> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html
>>
>> Well, I can't speak for everyone in all fields. But I don't see
>> plausible replacements for Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on that list.
>>
>> [snip]
>
> GIMP is more than enough for most people, even professionals. What features
> of Photoshop do you think GIMP is missing?


CMYK. It's useless in pro circles without it. Yeah, yeah, I know there's a
plug-in that allows GIMP to output CMYK, but what happens when it's a CMYK
separation that you actually need to edit in GIMP? YOU CAN'T, and its
something that pre-press people have to do all the time.

> What is lacking is there are
> plug ins for plus it is more configurable and scriptable and it is open
> source so if you like to add a feature or change a feature nothng is
> stopping you.

Except that the support doesn't exist.

In article ,
"Cuphea Ignea" wrote:

> ZnU splattered upon for all to feel:
> > In article <4S_Zj.19789$255.15895@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
> > Linonut wrote:
> >
> >> * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:
> >>
> >>> This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps
> >>> for very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing
> >>> and e-mail. And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets
> >>> where Unix used to be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about
> >>> it. And that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for
> >>> demanding users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific
> >>> fields.
> >>
> >> Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in
> >> this partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:
> >>
> >> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html
> >
> > Well, I can't speak for everyone in all fields. But I don't see
> > plausible replacements for Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on that list.
> >
> > [snip]
>
> GIMP is more than enough for most people, even professionals. What features
> of Photoshop do you think GIMP is missing? What is lacking is there are
> plug ins for plus it is more configurable and scriptable and it is open
> source so if you like to add a feature or change a feature nothng is
> stopping you.

Yup, this thread is taking precisely the same course as all the other
Linux app threads. We've reached the stage where Linux advocates who
have no idea what they're talking about insist that apps are equivalent
when essentially no professional user considers them so.

I don't want to start picking apart the feature lists in question,
because they're long. So I'll simply note that in 10 years in various
content creation industries, I have never seen GIMP used as a Photoshop
alternative in a professional setting. Not a single time.

--
"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming
out any other way."
* * * * * * * * * * * * --George W. Bush in Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

"ZnU" wrote in message
news:znu-C515AD.02305726052008@news.individual.net
> In article ,
> "Cuphea Ignea" wrote:
>
>> ZnU splattered upon for all to feel:
>>> In article <4S_Zj.19789$255.15895@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
>>> Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>>> * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>>
>>>>> This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent
>>>>> apps for very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word
>>>>> processing and e-mail. And it has a scattering of high-end apps
>>>>> from markets where Unix used to be popular, like high-end 3D. But
>>>>> that's about it. And that's not enough to make it a viable
>>>>> operating system for demanding users, unless they happen to be in
>>>>> certain very specific fields.
>>>>
>>>> Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in
>>>> this partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html
>>>
>>> Well, I can't speak for everyone in all fields. But I don't see
>>> plausible replacements for Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on that list.
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>
>> GIMP is more than enough for most people, even professionals. What
>> features of Photoshop do you think GIMP is missing? What is lacking
>> is there are plug ins for plus it is more configurable and
>> scriptable and it is open source so if you like to add a feature or
>> change a feature nothng is stopping you.
>
> Yup, this thread is taking precisely the same course as all the other
> Linux app threads. We've reached the stage where Linux advocates who
> have no idea what they're talking about insist that apps are
> equivalent when essentially no professional user considers them so.
>
> I don't want to start picking apart the feature lists in question,
> because they're long. So I'll simply note that in 10 years in various
> content creation industries, I have never seen GIMP used as a
> Photoshop alternative in a professional setting. Not a single time.

I tried to ignore the fact that you did not answer my question but I failed.
Features. Features. Do you not understand what I mean?

--
http://www.as7apcool.com/

On Mon, 26 May 2008 02:30:57 -0400, ZnU wrote:


> Yup, this thread is taking precisely the same course as all the other
> Linux app threads. We've reached the stage where Linux advocates who
> have no idea what they're talking about insist that apps are equivalent
> when essentially no professional user considers them so.

The so called Linux *advocates* will time and time again suggest their
generally lame alternatives for commercial, professional applications and
without regards to the level that these applications need to perform in
order to become industry standards.

For example, suggesting Ardour, or Audacity as a replacement for Protools
or Vegas/Soundforge/Nuendo is ludicrous at best.

Is Ardour a good program?
Sure it is.
It's used as an embedded program in some Harrison desks.
It functions well in that setting.

However, as a standalone program it can't hold a candle to offerings like
Nuendo or ProTools and the reason is VST instrument support for plugins and
obviously instruments.

If you walk into just about any commercial studio you will find ProTools,
Nuendo and a host of plugins from Native Instruments amongst others.
You will NOT find Ardour unless you seek out the few places that might
actually be using it.

Still the Linux Loons will offer these things up and quite frankly most of
the professional world will laugh.


> I don't want to start picking apart the feature lists in question,
> because they're long. So I'll simply note that in 10 years in various
> content creation industries, I have never seen GIMP used as a Photoshop
> alternative in a professional setting. Not a single time.

See above.

And before the Loons start bringing up Mirror studios article from 5 years
ago in Sound On Sound magazine, please read the article and realize Linux
is in the Q room, not the A room and that studio is kind of a joke anyway.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

"George Graves" wrote in message
news:0001HW.C45FA697002FB17EF01846D8@news.comcast. net
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 01:33:05 -0700, Cuphea Ignea wrote
> (in article ):
>
>> ZnU splattered upon for all to feel:
>>> In article <4S_Zj.19789$255.15895@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
>>> Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>>> * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>>
>>>>> This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent
>>>>> apps for very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word
>>>>> processing and e-mail. And it has a scattering of high-end apps
>>>>> from markets where Unix used to be popular, like high-end 3D. But
>>>>> that's about it. And that's not enough to make it a viable
>>>>> operating system for demanding users, unless they happen to be in
>>>>> certain very specific fields.
>>>>
>>>> Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in
>>>> this partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html
>>>
>>> Well, I can't speak for everyone in all fields. But I don't see
>>> plausible replacements for Final Cut Pro or Photoshop on that list.
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>
>> GIMP is more than enough for most people, even professionals. What
>> features of Photoshop do you think GIMP is missing?
>
>
> CMYK. It's useless in pro circles without it. Yeah, yeah, I know
> there's a plug-in that allows GIMP to output CMYK, but what happens
> when it's a CMYK separation that you actually need to edit in GIMP?
> YOU CAN'T, and its something that pre-press people have to do all the
> time.

I can edit in GIMP and there are CMYK plug-ins at least three if you do the
math. Which do you prefer?

>> What is lacking is there are
>> plug ins for plus it is more configurable and scriptable and it is
>> open source so if you like to add a feature or change a feature
>> nothng is stopping you.
>
> Except that the support doesn't exist.

You can do it yourself. Do you need your mama to help you pee still? The
code is open and you can be your own support. If you need help there is a
world wide community of experts not just the schlock that is there for
Photoshop.

--
http://www.as7apcool.com/

In article ,
"Cuphea Ignea" wrote:

> "ZnU" wrote in message
> news:znu-C515AD.02305726052008@news.individual.net

> > I don't want to start picking apart the feature lists in question,
> > because they're long. So I'll simply note that in 10 years in various
> > content creation industries, I have never seen GIMP used as a
> > Photoshop alternative in a professional setting. Not a single time.
>
> I tried to ignore the fact that you did not answer my question but I failed.
> Features. Features. Do you not understand what I mean?

It's useless. You want to compare bullet points. It doesn't work like
that. Your response to George about CMYK is a perfect example. You've
found a bullet point that says GIMP supports CMYK. But there's a huge
difference between outputting CMYK and natively supporting it. You don't
understand what that difference is, because you've barely got a clue
what CMYK is for and have probably never worked with a CMYK image.

--
"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming
out any other way."
* * * * * * * * * * * * --George W. Bush in Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

On Mon, 26 May 2008 02:22:46 -0400, Cuphea Ignea wrote:
>>> Cuphea Ignea:
>>> Have you seen the icon? Do you have any idea what you are talking
>>> about?
>>
>> Are you saying it IS an application based on the appearance of the
>> *icon*?
>
> Are you saying it IS NOT?

I think it's more like "an icon doth not an application make." But anyway,
it's a plug-in for .Net-based media.

In article ,
"Cuphea Ignea" wrote:

> ZnU splattered upon for all to feel:
> > In article ,
> > Sandman wrote:

> >> Edwin will now explain how one application is any sign of a trend.
> >
> > Silverlight isn't even an application, it's a browser plug-in.
>
> Have you seen the icon? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

http://silverlight.net/

"Microsoft Silverlight is a cross-browser, cross-platform, and
cross-device plug-in for delivering the next generation of .NET based
media experiences and rich interactive applications for the Web."

--
"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming
out any other way."
* * * * * * * * * * * * --George W. Bush in Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

"Tim Murray" wrote in message
news:xht_j.71182$3v1.64515@bignews3.bellsouth.net
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 02:22:46 -0400, Cuphea Ignea wrote:
>>>> Cuphea Ignea:
>>>> Have you seen the icon? Do you have any idea what you are talking
>>>> about?
>>>
>>> Are you saying it IS an application based on the appearance of the
>>> *icon*?
>>
>> Are you saying it IS NOT?
>
> I think it's more like "an icon doth not an application make." But
> anyway, it's a plug-in for .Net-based media.

Why Sandman talk about the icon making it an application? An icon can mean
many things to different people from all sorts of cultures.

--
http://www.as7apcool.com/