Mac Market Share Facts - Linux

This is a discussion on Mac Market Share Facts - Linux ; 7 > > While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+ > desktop installations per week and sales of 1 > million+ embedded Linux gadgets PER DAY. But are you measuring something that's relevant? For example, if the claim ...

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Thread: Mac Market Share Facts

  1. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    7
    >
    > While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+
    > desktop installations per week and sales of 1
    > million+ embedded Linux gadgets PER DAY.


    But are you measuring something that's relevant?

    For example, if the claim here is that 1M/week desktops are being
    added for the general personal computer (PC) application, then this
    pool is relevant to the estimated worldwide population of roughly 1
    Billion PCs in general purpose use.

    Doing the math on marketshare, 1M/week out of 1B equals 0.001B/1B = +.
    001 = 0.1% growth in marketshare representation ... per *week*.

    That would be +0.4% growth per month, or +4.8% per year.

    I don't necessarly totally advocate the use of:
    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8

    ....but barring anything clearly better, I'll use it as my citation
    source.

    From it, the April 2008 market share representation (as they define
    it) for Linux was 0.6%. In June 2007, it was 0.4%. This is a growth
    rate of +0.2%/year...ie, +0.004%/week, which suggests that the above
    claim is wrong by TWO FULL ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

    Thus, even if we accept the original claim (+1M/week) as being true,
    the failure for these new systems to be reflected in the above
    marketshare measurement tool functionally means that ~99% of these new
    Linux systems are **NOT** being used in general purpose PC desktop-
    type applications...

    ....and thus, 7's claim has zero relevancy to the topic at hand.


    -hh

  2. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>> were some professional grade apps to go with it.

    >>
    >> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >> years (less than five) by various metrics.

    >
    > Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    > shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    > overboard.
    >
    > In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    > have never seen or heard of them.


    OpenOffice/KOffice
    gcc
    the Linux kernel
    amarok, xine, mplayer, or vlc
    GIMP
    Thunderbird/Firefox
    GNOME or KDE

    Even in stuff like UML (object-oriented diagramming), open-source stuff
    is very competitive. And, in some cases, proprietary products are
    spin-offs of open-source code (e.g. Poseidon UML is a spin-off of
    ArgoUML).

    Open source has most bases pretty well covered.

    Are there missing or inferior elements? Of course.

    But your characterization of the state of "professional grade"
    application is simply stupid, ignorant, or based on some kind of
    not-so-hidden agenda.

    I wonder if I can nominate a newsgroup troll for a Zoon award?

    --
    Windows 2000 already contains features such as the human discipline
    component, where the PC can send an electric shock through the keyboard if
    the human does something that does not please Windows.
    -- Bill Gates

  3. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 07:05:28 -0700, Ezekiel wrote
    (in article ):

    >
    > "George Graves" wrote in message
    > news:0001HW.C45C1BA70000CEA0F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    >> (in article ):
    >>
    >>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>> porting
    >>>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for Mac
    >>>> as
    >>>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I
    >>>> have
    >>>> Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to merely
    >>>> OK.
    >>>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS Office,
    >>>> but
    >>>> it
    >>>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain
    >>>> 100%
    >>>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and that's
    >>>> nowhere
    >>>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>>> were
    >>>> some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>
    >>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >>> years (less than five) by various metrics.

    >>
    >> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    >> shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    >> overboard.
    >>
    >> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    >> have never seen or heard of them.

    >
    >
    > At the "enterprise level" there are things like Oracle, SAP and stuff like
    > that which is available for linux and other operating systems. This is to be
    > expected because linux is popular in the server room.
    >
    > When it comes to the desktop however, the professional grade choices are
    > rather limited.


    And this keeps Linux off of most desktops. Both on the job and at home.


  4. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On 2008-05-23, George Graves wrote:
    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 07:05:28 -0700, Ezekiel wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >>
    >> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >> news:0001HW.C45C1BA70000CEA0F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>>> porting
    >>>>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for Mac
    >>>>> as
    >>>>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I
    >>>>> have
    >>>>> Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to merely
    >>>>> OK.
    >>>>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS Office,
    >>>>> but
    >>>>> it
    >>>>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain
    >>>>> 100%
    >>>>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and that's
    >>>>> nowhere
    >>>>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>>>> were
    >>>>> some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >>>> years (less than five) by various metrics.
    >>>
    >>> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    >>> shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    >>> overboard.
    >>>
    >>> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    >>> have never seen or heard of them.

    >>
    >>
    >> At the "enterprise level" there are things like Oracle, SAP and stuff like
    >> that which is available for linux and other operating systems. This is to be
    >> expected because linux is popular in the server room.
    >>
    >> When it comes to the desktop however, the professional grade choices are
    >> rather limited.


    ....of course it is not the "professional grade choices" that are the problem.
    The common problems are trivially easy to solve. You have to be a total moron
    to even argue about them.

    The problem with Windows is what has always been the problem with Windows.

    All of the more obscure things are available for Windows and nothing else.

    >
    > And this keeps Linux off of most desktops. Both on the job and at home.
    >



    --
    Sophocles wants his cut. |||
    / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  5. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 08:10:53 -0700, Linonut wrote
    (in article ):

    > * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    >> (in article ):
    >>
    >>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>>> were some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>
    >>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >>> years (less than five) by various metrics.

    >>
    >> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    >> shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    >> overboard.
    >>
    >> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    >> have never seen or heard of them.

    >
    > OpenOffice/KOffice


    Its OK, not as good as MS Office, and it cannot replace it, but its ok. I use
    it myself.

    > gcc


    A GNU compiler is not the kind of application I was referring to, and you
    know it.

    > the Linux kernel


    A Kernel is not an application

    > amarok, xine, mplayer, or vlc


    These are media players. Please explain how they are as good as things like
    WMP. QuickTime, or iTunes.


    > GIMP


    Not ready for primetime. Cannot work with CMYK, can only output it. Clumsy
    interface. lots of missing capabilities. An amateur application for home
    picture editing. Not as good as any of the shrink-wrapped alternatives such
    as Photoshop Elements.

    > Thunderbird/Firefox


    Web Browsers that are available for all platforms. Like most web browsers,
    there are good and bad points about each.

    > GNOME or KDE


    GUI shells are not applications (at least not in the way I was using the
    term).

    I have not seen you explain why any of these apps are as good as their
    shrink-wrapped "competition" . All you have done is throw out a bunch of OS
    titles that I and everyone else already know about.


    >
    > Even in stuff like UML (object-oriented diagramming), open-source stuff
    > is very competitive. And, in some cases, proprietary products are
    > spin-offs of open-source code (e.g. Poseidon UML is a spin-off of
    > ArgoUML).
    >
    > Open source has most bases pretty well covered.
    >
    > Are there missing or inferior elements? Of course.
    >
    > But your characterization of the state of "professional grade"
    > application is simply stupid, ignorant, or based on some kind of
    > not-so-hidden agenda.


    My agenda is neither stupid nor ignorant. Linux for the desktop is relegated
    to Linux enthusiasts and home users who's needs are simply not very
    sophisticated. Abnd that;s simply NOT changing. While some of the
    open-software available for Linux is good enough for home usage, none of it
    is ready for the enterprise. I'd be very surprised if any professional
    graphic artists use either the GIMP or InkScape. And I have never heard of a
    pro DTPer who uses Scribus to lay-out a professional publication (Ok, a Linux
    magazine or two brag that they use this stuff, but then, they would, wouldn't
    they?).


  6. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    George Graves wrote:
    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't porting
    >>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for Mac as
    >>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I have
    >>> Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to merely OK.
    >>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS Office, but
    >>> it
    >>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain 100%
    >>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and that's
    >>> nowhere
    >>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>> were
    >>> some professional grade apps to go with it.

    >> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >> years (less than five) by various metrics.

    >
    > Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    > shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    > overboard.
    >
    > In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    > have never seen or heard of them.


    For the benefit of "most of us:"

    http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/downl...Platform=Linux

    Adobe Flash

    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...builder_linux/

    Adobe Flex Builder

    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/

    Adobe AIR

    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...&platform=unix

    Adobe Reader

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7639522

    Autodesk Maya

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5677331

    Autodesk Burn

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=6861765

    Autodesk mental ray

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851423

    Autodesk Flint

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851330

    Autodesk Inferno

    http://www.oracle.com/technology/sof...ase/index.html

    Oracle Database

    http://www.storix.com/oracle?gclid=C...FQOuFQodTkHFCQ

    Storix

    http://www.bricscad.com/en_INTL/bric...FQWVFQod5l17CQ

    Bricscad

    http://www.varicad.com/en/home/

    Varicad

    http://www.cycas.de/

    CYCAS CAD

    http://www.progesoft.com/compra/inde...=eng&abspage=1

    Progesoft CAD for Linux

    http://www.mathworks.com/products/ma...uirements.html

    http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase

    MATLAB 7.6

    http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase

    Adaptive Server Enterprise for Linux

    http://www.sybase.com/linux/sqlanywhere

    SQL Anywhere for Linux

    http://live.gnome.org/Dia

    Dia

    That's just a small sampling of available "professional grade" Linux
    applications.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  7. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    In article
    <27098b8f-681f-49f9-8110-16cd58d740cb@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, -hh
    wrote:

    > I don't necessarly totally advocate the use of:
    > http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8
    >
    > ...but barring anything clearly better, I'll use it as my citation
    > source.
    >
    > From it, the April 2008 market share representation (as they define
    > it) for Linux was 0.6%. In June 2007, it was 0.4%. This is a growth
    > rate of +0.2%/year...ie, +0.004%/week, which suggests that the above
    > claim is wrong by TWO FULL ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.



    HH didn't say it, so I will:
    this is another situation where retail reportage won't serve us.
    Linux users may build their own, buy and replace an OS, or upgrade
    older stuff, but in all those cases market share is misleading.

    Unfortunately, hitslink is still using the "market share" term where it
    does not apply, and misleads people more.

  8. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> But your characterization of the state of "professional grade"
    >> application is simply stupid, ignorant, or based on some kind of
    >> not-so-hidden agenda.

    >
    > My agenda is neither stupid nor ignorant. Linux for the desktop is relegated
    > to Linux enthusiasts and home users who's needs are simply not very
    > sophisticated. Abnd that;s simply NOT changing.


    Wrong on both counts. You are being stupid and ignorant, in my opinion.

    > While some of the
    > open-software available for Linux is good enough for home usage, none of it
    > is ready for the enterprise. I'd be very surprised if any professional
    > graphic artists use either the GIMP or InkScape. And I have never heard of a
    > pro DTPer who uses Scribus to lay-out a professional publication (Ok, a Linux
    > magazine or two brag that they use this stuff, but then, they would, wouldn't
    > they?).


    You are simply wrong. And my knowledge of the apps out there beyond
    what I use is far from complete. You can counter everything I just
    said, and still be wrong, simply because both you and I are ignorant as
    to what is really out there.

    All I know is that there are a lot more apps out there than I have
    mentioned, and there are also a lot of apps that can be run under Linux,
    with WINE, including Photoshop.

    It seems very foolish to me to say that Linux does not have any
    professional grade applications, in just about any field.

    Even if you are entirely right (and I do not believe so, not for a
    minute), so what? Use Linux for your main OS, and use another one for
    those few apps you think you really need on OSX or Windows. Linux has
    many strength over those systems.

    Let me quote again where you are just being obstinate:

    > My agenda is neither stupid nor ignorant. Linux for the desktop is relegated
    > to Linux enthusiasts and home users who's needs are simply not very
    > sophisticated. Abnd that;s simply NOT changing.


    Tell it to IBM, the movie industry, supercomputer facilities, European
    municipalites, and the large numbers of people who have no need at all
    for Windows (and Mac).

    It is patently silly to dismiss Linux, even on the "desktop", at this
    point in time.

    --
    We are not even close to finishing the basic dream of what the PC can be.
    -- Bill Gates

  9. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    Rick wrote:
    > On Thu, 22 May 2008 20:33:31 -0700, George Graves wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:06:37 -0700, Rick wrote (in article
    >> ):
    >>
    >>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:58:35 -0700, George Graves wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:38:29 -0700, Tim Smith wrote (in article
    >>>> ):
    >>>>
    >>>>> In article , 7
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>> Appil Asstroturfer Tim Smith wrote on behalf of Appil Corporation:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In article , 7
    >>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/25results.html fiscal
    >>>>>>>>> 2007 second quarter ended March 31, 2007 Apple shipped 1,517,000
    >>>>>>>>> Macintosh® computers
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+ desktop
    >>>>>>>> installations per week and sales of 1 million+ embedded Linux
    >>>>>>>> gadgets PER DAY.
    >>>>>>> 1.5 million actual Mac sales are a lot more interesting than your
    >>>>>>> imaginary 13 million Linux desktops.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Doh!
    >>>>>> Shows what appil asstroturfer know about counting!!!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> =====
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+ desktop
    >>>>>> installations per week and sales of 1 million+ embedded Linux
    >>>>>> gadgets PER DAY.
    >>>>> 1 million per week == 13 million per quarter, so your claim is that
    >>>>> Linux is beating Mac over 8 to 1 each quarter.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yet the Mac users are visible. You can go stand outside an Apple
    >>>>> store and see people walking out with Macs. You can go to airports,
    >>>>> and see people working on Macs while waiting for their flights. You
    >>>>> can go to coffee shops and see people on Macs. They are showing up
    >>>>> in web logs. They are buying books about Macs. They are showing up
    >>>>> in Mac software sales and downloads. You can go to professional
    >>>>> conferences, and see more and more Macs in the audience. You can
    >>>>> attend talks by Steve Ballmer, and find Mac users sitting next to egg
    >>>>> throwers. :-)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Your 13+ million Linux desktops per quarter seem to have fallen into
    >>>>> a black hole.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You could arguably dismiss any one or two of the areas where Macs are
    >>>>> showing up as a fluke (e.g., Macs are known to be popular among arty
    >>>>> types, and arty types hang out in coffee shops more than average
    >>>>> people do, so you might expect more Macs there), but taken all
    >>>>> together, there are a lot more Macs out there. Apple reports 1.5
    >>>>> million Macs in a quarter, and we see Macs show up.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That simply does not happen with Linux. You claim over 8 times the
    >>>>> installs each quarter as Macs, yet in nearly everyplace one looks
    >>>>> outside of server rooms and embedded devices, there are far more Macs
    >>>>> than Linux desktops. Hence, your Linux numbers are clearly a
    >>>>> complete fantasy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> If Linux was growing as fast as these Linuxheads are fantasizing that
    >>>> that it is, you would be seeing announcements in the computer press
    >>>> fairly regularly, that Microsoft is porting Office to Linux, that
    >>>> Adobe is porting CS3 to linux, that Quicken and Quickbooks were being
    >>>> ported to Linux. But you don't. That's because these 13 million
    >>>> desktops/quarter are imaginary desktops.
    >>>>
    >>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>> porting their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is
    >>>> available for Mac as well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and
    >>>> Scribus installed and I have Open Office installed. They vary in
    >>>> usefulness from not very to merely OK. The best of the lot is OO, and
    >>>> it's a decent competitor to MS Office, but it has a way to go before
    >>>> its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain 100% compatibility with
    >>>> Office to replace it in the enterprise, and that's nowhere near
    >>>> "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>>> were some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>
    >>> It may needs to maintain 100% compatibility with Office to replace it
    >>> in the enterprise, but it doesn't need to maintain 100% compatibility
    >>> with Office to compete with it.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> You just repeated what I said.

    >
    > I will rephrase: Open Office is a very good replacement for a large
    > number of people right now.


    Which people are your going to replace with Open Office?

    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  10. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:48:40 -0700, Sgt. Friday wrote
    (in article ):

    > George Graves wrote:
    >> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    >> (in article ):
    >>
    >>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>> porting
    >>>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for Mac
    >>>> as
    >>>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I have
    >>>> Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to merely
    >>>> OK.
    >>>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS Office, but
    >>>> it
    >>>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain 100%
    >>>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and that's
    >>>> nowhere
    >>>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>>> were
    >>>> some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >>> years (less than five) by various metrics.

    >>
    >> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    >> shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    >> overboard.
    >>
    >> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    >> have never seen or heard of them.

    >
    > For the benefit of "most of us:"
    >
    >

    http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/downl...sion=Shockwave

    > Flash&P2_Platform=Linux
    >
    > Adobe Flash
    >
    > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...builder_linux/
    >
    > Adobe Flex Builder


    An alpha version
    >
    > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/
    >
    > Adobe AIR


    An alpha version
    >
    > http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...&platform=unix
    >
    > Adobe Reader


    Free software. Nice they finally included Linux
    >
    > http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7639522
    >
    > Autodesk Maya


    Famous 3D package - I'd forgotten about that one.
    >
    > http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5677331
    >
    > Autodesk Burn


    Part of Maya
    >
    > http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=6861765
    >
    > Autodesk mental ray


    Part of Maya
    >
    > http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851423
    >
    > Autodesk Flint


    Part of Maya
    >
    > http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851330
    >
    > Autodesk Inferno


    Part of Maya
    >
    > http://www.oracle.com/technology/sof...ase/index.html
    >
    > Oracle Database
    >
    > http://www.storix.com/oracle?gclid=C...FQOuFQodTkHFCQ
    >
    > Storix


    Part of Oracle database
    >
    >

    http://www.bricscad.com/en_INTL/bric...lvb7vJMCFQWVFQ

    > od5l17CQ
    >
    > Bricscad


    Pretty good CAD system
    >
    > http://www.varicad.com/en/home/
    >
    > Varicad


    Good CAD program
    >
    > http://www.cycas.de/
    >
    > CYCAS CAD


    Another decent CAD program
    >
    >

    http://www.progesoft.com/compra/inde...in&lang=eng&ab

    > spage=1
    >
    > Progesoft CAD for Linux


    Another decent CAD program
    >
    > http://www.mathworks.com/products/ma...uirements.html
    >
    > http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase
    >
    > MATLAB 7.6


    We all know Matlab
    >
    > http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase
    >
    > Adaptive Server Enterprise for Linux


    Sybase for Linux, who knew?
    >
    > http://www.sybase.com/linux/sqlanywhere
    >
    > SQL Anywhere for Linux


    Part of Sybase
    >
    > http://live.gnome.org/Dia
    >
    > Dia


    "Visio" for Linux.
    >
    > That's just a small sampling of available "professional grade" Linux
    > applications.
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


    Actually, its about all of them, isn't it? So aside from Maya and all its
    standalone components, Sybase and its standalone components, 4 CAD packages,
    a Gnu "Visio" knockoff, Matlab, a couple of Adobe "alpha" enabling plug-ins
    for Linux, and a version of Acrobat Reader, what else is there? I have to be
    honest, I didn't think that there was this much (I did know about Maya,
    though) and I'm impressed. While there's nothing there that I could or would
    have any use for, its certainly a start, but I really see few productivity
    apps. For instance, you have Acrobat Reader from Adobe, but no Distiller. No
    Illustrator, no Indesign, no Photoshop. You have Maya from AutoDesk, but no
    AutoCAD. When these apps are ported to Linux, I'll respect it as much as a
    desktop OS as I already respect it as a server OS (wouldn't use anything
    else).


  11. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    George Graves wrote:
    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:48:40 -0700, Sgt. Friday wrote
    > (in article ):
    >
    >> George Graves wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote
    >>> (in article ):
    >>>
    >>>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>>> porting
    >>>>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for Mac
    >>>>> as
    >>>>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I have
    >>>>> Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to merely
    >>>>> OK.
    >>>>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS Office, but
    >>>>> it
    >>>>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain 100%
    >>>>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and that's
    >>>>> nowhere
    >>>>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there
    >>>>> were
    >>>>> some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last few
    >>>> years (less than five) by various metrics.
    >>> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with their
    >>> shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need to go
    >>> overboard.
    >>>
    >>> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of us
    >>> have never seen or heard of them.

    >> For the benefit of "most of us:"
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/downl...sion=Shockwave
    >
    >> Flash&P2_Platform=Linux
    >>
    >> Adobe Flash
    >>
    >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...builder_linux/
    >>
    >> Adobe Flex Builder

    >
    > An alpha version
    >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/
    >>
    >> Adobe AIR

    >
    > An alpha version
    >> http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...&platform=unix
    >>
    >> Adobe Reader

    >
    > Free software. Nice they finally included Linux
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7639522
    >>
    >> Autodesk Maya

    >
    > Famous 3D package - I'd forgotten about that one.
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5677331
    >>
    >> Autodesk Burn

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=6861765
    >>
    >> Autodesk mental ray

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851423
    >>
    >> Autodesk Flint

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851330
    >>
    >> Autodesk Inferno

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >> http://www.oracle.com/technology/sof...ase/index.html
    >>
    >> Oracle Database
    >>
    >> http://www.storix.com/oracle?gclid=C...FQOuFQodTkHFCQ
    >>
    >> Storix

    >
    > Part of Oracle database
    >>

    > http://www.bricscad.com/en_INTL/bric...lvb7vJMCFQWVFQ
    >
    >> od5l17CQ
    >>
    >> Bricscad

    >
    > Pretty good CAD system
    >> http://www.varicad.com/en/home/
    >>
    >> Varicad

    >
    > Good CAD program
    >> http://www.cycas.de/
    >>
    >> CYCAS CAD

    >
    > Another decent CAD program
    >>

    > http://www.progesoft.com/compra/inde...in&lang=eng&ab
    >
    >> spage=1
    >>
    >> Progesoft CAD for Linux

    >
    > Another decent CAD program
    >> http://www.mathworks.com/products/ma...uirements.html
    >>
    >> http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase
    >>
    >> MATLAB 7.6

    >
    > We all know Matlab
    >> http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase
    >>
    >> Adaptive Server Enterprise for Linux

    >
    > Sybase for Linux, who knew?
    >> http://www.sybase.com/linux/sqlanywhere
    >>
    >> SQL Anywhere for Linux

    >
    > Part of Sybase
    >> http://live.gnome.org/Dia
    >>
    >> Dia

    >
    > "Visio" for Linux.
    >> That's just a small sampling of available "professional grade" Linux
    >> applications.
    >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

    >
    > Actually, its about all of them, isn't it?


    No, not by a long shot.

    .. So aside from Maya and all its
    > standalone components, Sybase and its standalone components, 4 CAD packages,
    > a Gnu "Visio" knockoff, Matlab, a couple of Adobe "alpha" enabling plug-ins
    > for Linux,


    They're a bit more than "plug-ins."

    "The Adobe® AIR for Linux alpha is a version of the Adobe AIR runtime
    that allows Adobe AIR applications to be deployed on computers and
    devices running the Linux operating system. In addition, Adobe Flex®
    Builder™ for Linux can be used to build rich internet applications that
    deploy to the desktop and run across operating systems using proven web
    technologies."

    It's true they're alpha now, but they weren't created because Linux
    isn't being used.

    > and a version of Acrobat Reader, what else is there? I have to be
    > honest, I didn't think that there was this much (I did know about Maya,
    > though) and I'm impressed. While there's nothing there that I could or would
    > have any use for, its certainly a start,


    I really wasn't trying to list every professional Linux application in
    existence.


    > but I really see few productivity
    > apps. For instance, you have Acrobat Reader from Adobe, but no Distiller. No
    > Illustrator, no Indesign, no Photoshop. You have Maya from AutoDesk, but no
    > AutoCAD.


    You do realize the Mac doesn't have AutoCAD either, right?

    > When these apps are ported to Linux, I'll respect it as much as a
    > desktop OS as I already respect it as a server OS (wouldn't use anything
    > else).


    Okay, here's some more:

    http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxlinux/

    "CrossOver Linux allows you to install many popular Windows productivity
    applications, plugins and games in Linux, without needing a Microsoft
    Operating System license. CrossOver includes an easy to use, single
    click interface, which makes installing a Windows application simple and
    fast. Once installed, your application integrate seamlessly with your
    Gnome or KDE environment. Just click and run your application, exactly
    as you would in Windows, but with the full freedom of Linux."

    "CrossOver Linux lets you use many Windows plugins directly from your
    Linux browser. Plugins work on any x86 based Linux distribution and will
    integrate with most browsers including Firefox 1.x, Netscape 6.x,
    Konqueror, Mozilla, and Opera. CrossOver also integrates with Gnome and
    KDE to let you transparently open any Word, Excel or PowerPoint file.
    But even better, you can open these attachment types directly from any
    mail client."

    http://www.mediascape.com/artstream-linux.html

    Mediascape Artstream for Linux

    "Artstream now runs on the Intel family of processors and, for the first
    time, brings professional illustration and page layout to the Linux
    environment. Artstream, working with raster editors such as Gimp and
    printer/scanner managers such as those from Vividata, ESP and Caldera,
    now completes the suite of tools for Graphic Design and Desktop
    Publishing on Linux. All the functionality provided in Artstream for
    Irix is supported. Artstream's full featured illustration tools, with
    Artstream innovations such as VectorPaint®, ShadeGuides® and DynaLenses,
    along with photo placement, masks, precision typography, multi-page
    story flow and more are all included. With only some cosmetic
    differences with the Irix desktop, Artstream for Linux is a complete
    workalike to Artstream for Irix, and obtains comparable performance
    benefits from OpenGL® acceleration hardware from SGI and other SGI
    conformant OpenGL vendors. Those already familiar with the Irix version,
    and those maintaining both environments, will find transitioning easy. "

    http://www.vividata.com/index.html

    "Vividata provides Optical Character Recognition and Image Processing
    software for Linux and UNIX environments for commercial usage,
    high-volume applications, and customized applications."

    http://www.realsoft.fi/

    Realsoft 3D Version 6

    http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview...id=swg27007909

    IBM Lotus Notes, Lotus Domino, Lotus Domino Administrator, Lotus Domino
    Designer, and Lotus Notes Traveler

    http://www.treepad.com/linux/treepadlite/

    TreePad Lite for Linux
    Personal Information Manager + Database

    http://www.pagestream.org/index.php

    PageStream

    http://software.viva.de/english/prod...adesigner/333/

    "VivaDesigner is the first layout program world-wide to be available on
    all major platforms, Windows, Mac and Linux/Unix. "

    http://www.scalix.com/enterprise/technology/

    "The Scalix technology is different. Our enterprise-class messaging and
    collaboration platform takes the cost and complexity out of
    administration and upgrades, and gives you the freedom to choose the
    infrastructure, applications, and desktops that best suit your business
    needs. As a result, your total cost of ownership is dramatically
    reduced, and your investment in current and future messaging systems is
    protected. How do we do it? With an architecture based on open standards
    and an industrial-strength Linux platform."

    http://www.writerscafe.co.uk/

    "Writer's Café is a software toolkit for all fiction writers, whether
    experienced or just starting out. The heart of Writer's Café is
    StoryLines, a powerful but simple to use story development tool that
    dramatically accelerates the creation and structuring of your novel or
    screenplay."
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  12. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:53:34 -0500, Sgt. Friday wrote:

    > Rick wrote:
    >> On Thu, 22 May 2008 20:33:31 -0700, George Graves wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:06:37 -0700, Rick wrote (in article
    >>> ):
    >>>
    >>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:58:35 -0700, George Graves wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 17:38:29 -0700, Tim Smith wrote (in article
    >>>>> ):
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> In article , 7
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>> Appil Asstroturfer Tim Smith wrote on behalf of Appil Corporation:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> In article , 7
    >>>>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/25results.html fiscal
    >>>>>>>>>> 2007 second quarter ended March 31, 2007 Apple shipped
    >>>>>>>>>> 1,517,000 Macintosh® computers
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+ desktop
    >>>>>>>>> installations per week and sales of 1 million+ embedded Linux
    >>>>>>>>> gadgets PER DAY.
    >>>>>>>> 1.5 million actual Mac sales are a lot more interesting than your
    >>>>>>>> imaginary 13 million Linux desktops.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Doh!
    >>>>>>> Shows what appil asstroturfer know about counting!!!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> =====
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+ desktop
    >>>>>>> installations per week and sales of 1 million+ embedded Linux
    >>>>>>> gadgets PER DAY.
    >>>>>> 1 million per week == 13 million per quarter, so your claim is that
    >>>>>> Linux is beating Mac over 8 to 1 each quarter.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Yet the Mac users are visible. You can go stand outside an Apple
    >>>>>> store and see people walking out with Macs. You can go to
    >>>>>> airports, and see people working on Macs while waiting for their
    >>>>>> flights. You can go to coffee shops and see people on Macs. They
    >>>>>> are showing up in web logs. They are buying books about Macs. They
    >>>>>> are showing up in Mac software sales and downloads. You can go to
    >>>>>> professional conferences, and see more and more Macs in the
    >>>>>> audience. You can attend talks by Steve Ballmer, and find Mac
    >>>>>> users sitting next to egg throwers. :-)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Your 13+ million Linux desktops per quarter seem to have fallen
    >>>>>> into a black hole.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You could arguably dismiss any one or two of the areas where Macs
    >>>>>> are showing up as a fluke (e.g., Macs are known to be popular among
    >>>>>> arty types, and arty types hang out in coffee shops more than
    >>>>>> average people do, so you might expect more Macs there), but taken
    >>>>>> all together, there are a lot more Macs out there. Apple reports
    >>>>>> 1.5 million Macs in a quarter, and we see Macs show up.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> That simply does not happen with Linux. You claim over 8 times the
    >>>>>> installs each quarter as Macs, yet in nearly everyplace one looks
    >>>>>> outside of server rooms and embedded devices, there are far more
    >>>>>> Macs than Linux desktops. Hence, your Linux numbers are clearly a
    >>>>>> complete fantasy.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> If Linux was growing as fast as these Linuxheads are fantasizing
    >>>>> that that it is, you would be seeing announcements in the computer
    >>>>> press fairly regularly, that Microsoft is porting Office to Linux,
    >>>>> that Adobe is porting CS3 to linux, that Quicken and Quickbooks were
    >>>>> being ported to Linux. But you don't. That's because these 13
    >>>>> million desktops/quarter are imaginary desktops.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>>> porting their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is
    >>>>> available for Mac as well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and
    >>>>> Scribus installed and I have Open Office installed. They vary in
    >>>>> usefulness from not very to merely OK. The best of the lot is OO,
    >>>>> and it's a decent competitor to MS Office, but it has a way to go
    >>>>> before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain 100%
    >>>>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and
    >>>>> that's nowhere near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up
    >>>>> considerably if there were some professional grade apps to go with
    >>>>> it.
    >>>>
    >>>> It may needs to maintain 100% compatibility with Office to replace it
    >>>> in the enterprise, but it doesn't need to maintain 100% compatibility
    >>>> with Office to compete with it.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> You just repeated what I said.

    >>
    >> I will rephrase: Open Office is a very good replacement for a large
    >> number of people right now.

    >
    > Which people are your going to replace with Open Office?
    >
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


    ... and you think you have any credibility posting from teranews, and with
    the handle of Sgt. Friday?

    --
    Rick

  13. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:19:30 -0700, George Graves wrote:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 08:10:53 -0700, Linonut wrote (in article
    > ):
    >
    >> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote (in article
    >>> ):
    >>>
    >>>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if there were some
    >>>>> professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last
    >>>> few years (less than five) by various metrics.
    >>>
    >>> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with
    >>> their shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need
    >>> to go overboard.
    >>>
    >>> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of
    >>> us have never seen or heard of them.

    >>
    >> OpenOffice/KOffice

    >
    > Its OK, not as good as MS Office, and it cannot replace it, but its ok.
    > I use it myself.


    It CAN replace MS Office. And, IMO, it can replace MS Office in the
    overwhelming majority of cases.

    >
    >> gcc

    >
    > A GNU compiler is not the kind of application I was referring to, and
    > you know it.


    Prodessionals don't use it?

    >
    >> the Linux kernel

    >
    > A Kernel is not an application
    >
    >> amarok, xine, mplayer, or vlc

    >
    > These are media players. Please explain how they are as good as things
    > like WMP. QuickTime, or iTunes.


    That all depends on what you want. For instance, Amarok can access a
    music store. You can manage an iPod from it, it will manage your music,
    DL album covers and play music.

    In my experience, mplayer will play almost any codec out there, including
    the new flv videos that are causing other players problems.

    >
    >
    >> GIMP

    >
    > Not ready for primetime.


    That all depends on how you define prime time.

    > Cannot work with CMYK, can only output it.


    I don't need for image manipulation. You might need it for printing, but
    Gimp has never claimed to be a print related application. It just happens
    to have 90-ish % of the capabilities of Photoshop, a print related app.

    > Clumsy interface


    In your opinion. When I move from Gimp to Photoshop, I find Photoshop
    clumsy.

    > lots of missing capabilities. An amateur application
    > for home picture editing. Not as good as any of the shrink-wrapped
    > alternatives such as Photoshop Elements.


    IYO.

    >
    >> Thunderbird/Firefox

    >
    > Web Browsers that are available for all platforms. Like most web
    > browsers, there are good and bad points about each.
    >
    >> GNOME or KDE

    >
    > GUI shells are not applications (at least not in the way I was using the
    > term).
    >
    > I have not seen you explain why any of these apps are as good as their
    > shrink-wrapped "competition" . All you have done is throw out a bunch of
    > OS titles that I and everyone else already know about.
    >
    >
    >
    >> Even in stuff like UML (object-oriented diagramming), open-source stuff
    >> is very competitive. And, in some cases, proprietary products are
    >> spin-offs of open-source code (e.g. Poseidon UML is a spin-off of
    >> ArgoUML).
    >>
    >> Open source has most bases pretty well covered.
    >>
    >> Are there missing or inferior elements? Of course.
    >>
    >> But your characterization of the state of "professional grade"
    >> application is simply stupid, ignorant, or based on some kind of
    >> not-so-hidden agenda.

    >
    > My agenda is neither stupid nor ignorant. Linux for the desktop is
    > relegated to Linux enthusiasts and home users who's needs are simply not
    > very sophisticated.


    Tell that to Red Hat's enterprise desktop users. You know, the ones that
    use desktops for "real work".

    Tell that to the employees of Largo and Chicago. You knwo, people that do
    "real work".

    > Abnd that;s simply NOT changing. While some of the
    > open-software available for Linux is good enough for home usage, none of
    > it is ready for the enterprise.


    Again, tell that to the users of RHEL.

    > I'd be very surprised if any
    > professional graphic artists use either the GIMP or InkScape. And I have


    Well then, maybe you've never heard of Cinepaint. They have in Hollywood.

    > never heard of a pro DTPer who uses Scribus to lay-out a professional
    > publication (Ok, a Linux magazine or two brag that they use this stuff,
    > but then, they would, wouldn't they?).



    --
    Rick

  14. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 13:30:36 -0700, George Graves wrote:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:48:40 -0700, Sgt. Friday wrote (in article
    > ):
    >
    >> George Graves wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote (in article
    >>> ):
    >>>
    >>>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>>> porting
    >>>>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for
    >>>>> Mac as
    >>>>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I
    >>>>> have Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to
    >>>>> merely OK.
    >>>>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS
    >>>>> Office, but it
    >>>>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain
    >>>>> 100% compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and
    >>>>> that's nowhere
    >>>>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if
    >>>>> there were
    >>>>> some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last
    >>>> few years (less than five) by various metrics.
    >>>
    >>> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with
    >>> their shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need
    >>> to go overboard.
    >>>
    >>> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of
    >>> us have never seen or heard of them.

    >>
    >> For the benefit of "most of us:"
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?

    P1_Prod_Version=Shockwave
    >
    >> Flash&P2_Platform=Linux
    >>
    >> Adobe Flash
    >>
    >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...builder_linux/
    >>
    >> Adobe Flex Builder

    >
    > An alpha version
    >>
    >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/
    >>
    >> Adobe AIR

    >
    > An alpha version
    >>
    >> http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?

    product=10&platform=unix
    >>
    >> Adobe Reader

    >
    > Free software. Nice they finally included Linux
    >>
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7639522
    >>
    >> Autodesk Maya

    >
    > Famous 3D package - I'd forgotten about that one.
    >>
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5677331
    >>
    >> Autodesk Burn

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >>
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=6861765
    >>
    >> Autodesk mental ray

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >>
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851423
    >>
    >> Autodesk Flint

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >>
    >> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=7851330
    >>
    >> Autodesk Inferno

    >
    > Part of Maya
    >>
    >> http://www.oracle.com/technology/sof...ase/index.html
    >>
    >> Oracle Database
    >>
    >> http://www.storix.com/oracle?gclid=C...FQOuFQodTkHFCQ
    >>
    >> Storix

    >
    > Part of Oracle database
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.bricscad.com/en_INTL/bricscad/features.jsp?

    gclid=CLWclvb7vJMCFQWVFQ
    >
    >> od5l17CQ
    >>
    >> Bricscad

    >
    > Pretty good CAD system
    >>
    >> http://www.varicad.com/en/home/
    >>
    >> Varicad

    >
    > Good CAD program
    >>
    >> http://www.cycas.de/
    >>
    >> CYCAS CAD

    >
    > Another decent CAD program
    >>
    >>

    > http://www.progesoft.com/compra/inde..../cadforlinux/

    main&lang=eng&ab
    >
    >> spage=1
    >>
    >> Progesoft CAD for Linux

    >
    > Another decent CAD program
    >>
    >> http://www.mathworks.com/products/ma...uirements.html
    >>
    >> http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase
    >>
    >> MATLAB 7.6

    >
    > We all know Matlab
    >>
    >> http://www.sybase.com/linux/ase
    >>
    >> Adaptive Server Enterprise for Linux

    >
    > Sybase for Linux, who knew?
    >>
    >> http://www.sybase.com/linux/sqlanywhere
    >>
    >> SQL Anywhere for Linux

    >
    > Part of Sybase
    >>
    >> http://live.gnome.org/Dia
    >>
    >> Dia

    >
    > "Visio" for Linux.
    >>
    >> That's just a small sampling of available "professional grade" Linux
    >> applications.
    >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

    >
    > Actually, its about all of them, isn't it? So aside from Maya and all
    > its standalone components, Sybase and its standalone components, 4 CAD
    > packages, a Gnu "Visio" knockoff, Matlab, a couple of Adobe "alpha"
    > enabling plug-ins for Linux, and a version of Acrobat Reader, what else
    > is there? I have to be honest, I didn't think that there was this much
    > (I did know about Maya, though) and I'm impressed. While there's nothing
    > there that I could or would have any use for, its certainly a start, but
    > I really see few productivity apps. For instance, you have Acrobat
    > Reader from Adobe, but no Distiller. No Illustrator, no Indesign, no
    > Photoshop. You have Maya from AutoDesk, but no AutoCAD. When these apps
    > are ported to Linux, I'll respect it as much as a desktop OS as I
    > already respect it as a server OS (wouldn't use anything else).


    I guess it's a good thing that the users of RHEL don't care if you
    respect their desktop OS or not.



    --
    Rick

  15. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:39:07 -0400, 7 wrote:
    >
    > While Linux has improved its position to 1 million+ desktop installations
    > per week and sales of 1 million+ embedded Linux gadgets PER DAY.


    Why have I never, ever seen a single Linux machine in my travels? Sure, I
    don't walk up and squint at every user's machine at the airport, but I do
    look around.


  16. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 08:57:23 -0700, George Graves wrote:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 07:05:28 -0700, Ezekiel wrote (in article
    > ):
    >
    >
    >> "George Graves" wrote in message
    >> news:0001HW.C45C1BA70000CEA0F01846D8@news.comcast. net...
    >>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:35:41 -0700, Linonut wrote (in article
    >>> ):
    >>>
    >>>> * George Graves peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Open source software is the reason why the major developers aren't
    >>>>> porting
    >>>>> their software to Linux, you say? Well, much of it is available for
    >>>>> Mac as
    >>>>> well, and I've GIMP installed, Inkscape, and Scribus installed and I
    >>>>> have
    >>>>> Open Office installed. They vary in usefulness from not very to
    >>>>> merely OK.
    >>>>> The best of the lot is OO, and it's a decent competitor to MS
    >>>>> Office, but
    >>>>> it
    >>>>> has a way to go before its Office's equal. It also needs to maintain
    >>>>> 100%
    >>>>> compatibility with Office to replace it in the enterprise, and
    >>>>> that's nowhere
    >>>>> near "there". Believe me, Linux usage would go up considerably if
    >>>>> there were
    >>>>> some professional grade apps to go with it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Don't be idiotic. GNU/Linux supports quite a few professional-grade
    >>>> applications, and the usage of Linux has about tripled in the last
    >>>> few years (less than five) by various metrics.
    >>>
    >>> Name these "professional grade" applications and compare them with
    >>> their shrink-wrap equivalents. Major features will do nicely. No need
    >>> to go overboard.
    >>>
    >>> In short, if these "professional grade" applications do exist, most of
    >>> us have never seen or heard of them.

    >>
    >>
    >> At the "enterprise level" there are things like Oracle, SAP and stuff
    >> like that which is available for linux and other operating systems.
    >> This is to be expected because linux is popular in the server room.
    >>
    >> When it comes to the desktop however, the professional grade choices
    >> are rather limited.

    >
    > And this keeps Linux off of most desktops. Both on the job and at home.


    Not in Largo. Not in many Hollywood studios. Not in many offices in
    Europe.

    --
    Rick

  17. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    "Rick" stated in post
    TtWdnYdy9Le7yarVnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@supernews.com on 5/23/08 4:32 PM:

    >>> OpenOffice/KOffice

    >>
    >> Its OK, not as good as MS Office, and it cannot replace it, but its ok.
    >> I use it myself.

    >
    > It CAN replace MS Office. And, IMO, it can replace MS Office in the
    > overwhelming majority of cases.


    It has gotten better... though I would love to see your support that it can
    replace it in the "overwhelming majority of cases".


    --
    If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
    Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)






  18. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    "Rick" stated in post
    TtWdnYRy9Lf9z6rVnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@supernews.com on 5/23/08 4:25 PM:

    >>> I will rephrase: Open Office is a very good replacement for a large
    >>> number of people right now.

    >>
    >> Which people are your going to replace with Open Office?
    >>
    >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

    >
    > .. and you think you have any credibility posting from teranews, and with
    > the handle of Sgt. Friday?


    Nice way to attack the messenger and avoid the message!


    --
    Dear Aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...21217782777472


  19. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    In article <0001HW.C45C777C0016549EF01846D8@news.comcast.net>,
    George Graves wrote:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:48:40 -0700, Sgt. Friday wrote
    > (in article ):


    [snip]

    > > That's just a small sampling of available "professional grade" Linux
    > > applications.

    >
    > Actually, its about all of them, isn't it? So aside from Maya and all its
    > standalone components, Sybase and its standalone components, 4 CAD packages,
    > a Gnu "Visio" knockoff, Matlab, a couple of Adobe "alpha" enabling plug-ins
    > for Linux, and a version of Acrobat Reader, what else is there?


    Even more importantly, look at the types of apps. The major apps on the
    list are mostly in fields were proprietary Unix operating systems once
    reigned. They don't represent some sort of bottom-up growth of a new
    desktop app market on Linux.

    This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for
    very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail.
    And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used to
    be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's not enough
    to make it a viable operating system for demanding users, unless they
    happen to be in certain very specific fields.

    --
    "More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming
    out any other way."
    --George W. Bush in Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

  20. Re: Linux Market Share Facts

    * ZnU peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > This is what I've been saying for years. Linux has some decent apps for
    > very common desktop tasks like web browsing, word processing and e-mail.
    > And it has a scattering of high-end apps from markets where Unix used to
    > be popular, like high-end 3D. But that's about it. And that's not enough
    > to make it a viable operating system for demanding users, unless they
    > happen to be in certain very specific fields.


    Get back with us when you've evaluated all of the applications in this
    partial list of commercial applications, circa 2005:

    http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/Lin...lications.html

    I don't see any of the commercial text-to-speech products we're looking
    into on that list, by the way.

    Simply put, both you and George are full of it. Here's your idiocy,
    repeated:

    "And that's not enough to make it a viable operating system for
    demanding users, unless they happen to be in certain very specific
    fields."

    If you're going to troll, you need to have a plausible thesis.

    --
    Like almost everyone who uses e-mail, I receive a ton of spam every day.
    Much of it offers to help me get out of debt or get rich quick. It would be
    funny if it weren't so exciting.
    -- Bill Gates

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