Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...] - Linux

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Thread: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

  1. Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]


    "The news that Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market mush have
    sent shivers through some of the big OEMs. Part of Apple’s runaway
    success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    cool and as stylish as Apple?"

    [...]

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1903&tag=nl.e539
    http://tinyurl.com/6epa7q

    -RFH


  2. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]


    >"Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    >news:1e9f0a14-68df-4177-a133->ce9df307229a@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
    >
    >"The news that Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    >PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market mush have
    >sent shivers through some of the big OEMs. Part of Apple’s runaway
    >success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    >are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    >cool and as stylish as Apple?"
    >
    >[...]
    >
    >http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1903&tag=nl.e539
    >http://tinyurl.com/6epa7q
    >
    >-RFH


    I saw this last night. A part (a big part) is that there is soooo much
    competition in the PC/Windows segment which causes prices to be more
    competitive and lower. Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz" factor
    but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.

    You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.



    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  3. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 10:04:23 -0700 (PDT), Ramon F Herrera wrote:

    > "The news that Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    > PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market mush have
    > sent shivers through some of the big OEMs. Part of Apple˘s runaway
    > success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    > are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    > cool and as stylish as Apple?"
    >
    > [...]
    >
    > http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1903&tag=nl.e539
    > http://tinyurl.com/6epa7q
    >
    > -RFH


    Those numbers seem a little high, however I can say that I see Mac's
    everywhere compared to a couple of years ago when they were few and far
    between.

    I travel a lot and a lot of business travelers are using Macs.

    Dell tries to be stylish, like with those pink notebooks etc but they are
    laughable compared to Apple's styling.

    And Linux?

    Well, I think I might have seen one person using Linux during my travels.
    Maybe.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  4. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    In article , "Ezekiel"
    wrote:

    > >"Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    > >news:1e9f0a14-68df-4177-a133->ce9df307229a@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > >"The news that Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    > >PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market mush have
    > >sent shivers through some of the big OEMs. Part of Apple’s runaway
    > >success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    > >are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    > >cool and as stylish as Apple?"
    > >
    > >[...]
    > >
    > >http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1903&tag=nl.e539
    > >http://tinyurl.com/6epa7q
    > >
    > >-RFH

    >
    > I saw this last night. A part (a big part) is that there is soooo much
    > competition in the PC/Windows segment which causes prices to be more
    > competitive and lower. Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz" factor
    > but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.
    >
    > You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    > Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.


    Hmmmm...

    Perhaps he forgot to mention it because there's no evidence that it's
    true...

    >
    >
    >
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


    --
    "The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" --
    "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone
    "It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix." -- "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X)
    '[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
    'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
    IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)
    'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included
    on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun)

  5. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On May 22, 1:12 pm, "Ezekiel" wrote:
    >
    > You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    > Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.
    >



    You are obviously trying to talk with Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, the
    author of the article. For some reason you seem to believe that he
    follows COLA and/or the Mac advocacy group.

    If you want to contact him, this is his blog:

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/bio.php?id=hughes

    -RFH



  6. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 13:12:31 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:


    > I saw this last night. A part (a big part) is that there is soooo much
    > competition in the PC/Windows segment which causes prices to be more
    > competitive and lower. Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz" factor
    > but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.


    Pretty much.
    I think there is one company that is now producing a Mac clone that will
    run OSX.

    > You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    > Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.


    Yea....

    About the same number of people that buy a Vette and remove the Eagle F1
    run flat tires and install PepBoys house brand "Futura" tires.

    Hahahha!


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]


    "Moshe. Goldfarb" wrote in message
    news:15y0nrds0dgab.1a43mfkwzct0i.dlg@40tude.net...
    > On Thu, 22 May 2008 13:12:31 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I saw this last night. A part (a big part) is that there is soooo much
    >> competition in the PC/Windows segment which causes prices to be more
    >> competitive and lower. Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz"
    >> factor
    >> but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.

    >
    > Pretty much.
    > I think there is one company that is now producing a Mac clone that will
    > run OSX.


    I read some stuff about this Mac clone when it first came out. Then a short
    while later I read that the whole thing could be some sort of hoax. So I
    checked again. There's a short 3-day old NY Times article that's an
    interesting read.

    http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ref=technology



    >> You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these
    >> expensive
    >> Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.

    >
    > Yea....
    >
    > About the same number of people that buy a Vette and remove the Eagle F1
    > run flat tires and install PepBoys house brand "Futura" tires.


    Brilliant - Absolutely classic!


    > Hahahha!
    >
    >
    > --
    > Moshe Goldfarb
    > Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    > Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    > http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/



    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  8. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    "Ezekiel" wrote:
    > ... Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz" factor
    > but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.


    Are you alluding to Windows OS not really being competition?

    FWIW, there most certainly are competitive pressures within the
    Windows hardware market - - it has been a price-centric commodity
    "food fight" for years, with the requisite razor-thin profit levels
    inherent to commodity markets, and Apple doesn't compete as a mere
    commodity. Nevertheless, there are some interesting hardware
    reference points where Apple is ... for whatever reason today ...
    extremely competitive with the Dell, HP, etc vendors. The current
    poster child is the default Mac Pro tower, with dual 2.8GHz quad-core
    CPUs on a 1600MHz FSB. The last time that I happened to have run
    prices, it was $1000 cheaper than Dell's closest match.


    > You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    > Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.


    To be fair, I have seen reports of Linux users doing just this, but I
    would personally hesitate to claim that their segment is significant
    unless I had numbers to back up just such a claim. Is there any
    credible source that claims a specific number?

    For example, past numbers I've seen are that roughly 2/3rds of Apple's
    sales are notebooks and that current sales are very roughly 2M units/
    quarter. Thus, probably around 5M-6M notebooks will be sold in
    2008.

    Now YMMV on what value you consider to be "lots of people", but at
    this rate, it would require around a million (1M) new Linux buyers per
    year in order to have a 15-20% representation in 'Apple Notebook
    converters'. YMMV, but I don't think anyone particularly cares all
    that much about any identifiable subgroup that's less than 10% of the
    total population, so this 15-20% value is probably a fair stab at a
    parametric guess at what constitutes significance.

    Since as per Marketshare reports (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/
    report.aspx?qprid=8) Linux has roughly a 0.6% presence, if the
    relevant world population of PCs is 1 Billion (IIRC, I think this is
    close enough), this would mean that there's only 6 Million Linux users
    in the entire world.

    At a 3 year hardware upgrade cycle, this means that 6/3 = 2 million of
    them are buying new hardware in any particular year, and hearkening
    back to the 1M/year needed to gain 15-20% Mac notebook presence, it
    means that 50% (fully HALF) of them are choosing Apple notebooks over
    all other brands.

    Think this is reasonable?

    At a 4 year hardware upgrade cycle, the number in the end goes up:
    67% of them would have to be buying & converting Apple laptops.

    Overall, I have my personal doubts ... but do feel free to identify
    some relevant posted numbers and build a case...it is a somewhat
    interesting postulation. OTOH, if you're just going to wave your
    hands and make vague baseless claims, set your follow-ups to dev/null.


    -hh

  9. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs[...]

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 10:04:23 -0700, Ramon F Herrera wrote:

    > Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    > PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market


    Translation: Another proprietary operating system bites the dust.

    --
    Facts are sacred ... but comment is free

  10. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On May 22, 1:12 pm, "Ezekiel" wrote:
    > there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.


    The important point is that it has been US (the people who pay for all
    the hardware and software), we are the ones who have accorded to trust
    some companies with the *privilege* of being a near monopoly.
    Companies such as Apple, Cisco and AAA come to mind. Apple has earned
    such privilege bestowed upon them by the laws of the market and
    marketing based on talent, geniality, hard work and above all: they
    play by the rules. They have shown along the years that they can be
    trusted. They are seen as leaders. Apple is nowadays the most admired
    company in the USA, while Microsoft is dropping like a sack of cement.

    I keep on reading about the latest "iPhone killer". How come they
    fail, one after another?

    As illustrated in the Twainesque and Shakeperian novels, there are two
    kinds if kings: the legitimate ones, beloved by their subjects, and
    the illegitimates. It takes a lot of work and character to be a King
    Arthur, while some in Redmond the most they can ever aspire to be
    Malagant.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince_and_the_Pauper

    -Ramon



  11. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]


    "-hh" wrote in message
    news:975465f4-4948-4d0b-8088-2be22c4028fd@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
    > "Ezekiel" wrote:
    >> ... Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz" factor
    >> but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.

    >
    > Are you alluding to Windows OS not really being competition?


    Windows is a competitor to Mac and vice-versa but not in the context that I
    meant. If somebody wants to buy a "Windows" computer then there are several
    vendors to buy that "Windows" computer from.

    But if somebody wants a "Mac" then there really aren't any choices other
    than Apple. Generic x86 "Windows" hardware is a commodity market but there's
    only one vendor of "Mac" PCs.



    > FWIW, there most certainly are competitive pressures within the
    > Windows hardware market - - it has been a price-centric commodity
    > "food fight" for years, with the requisite razor-thin profit levels
    > inherent to commodity markets,


    Margins are thin but the low cost (and reduced quality) allow the computers
    to be easily replaced at shorter intervals. At the end of the day it's
    become a low-cost high quantity market.




    > and Apple doesn't compete as a mere
    > commodity. Nevertheless, there are some interesting hardware


    Apple has the whole "wow factor" going for it. I own a iPod touch (awesome
    device) and I've used a Mac desktop before. It is very, very nice and slick
    and I can certainly understand why people would be interested in it, even at
    a premium.


    > reference points where Apple is ... for whatever reason today ...
    > extremely competitive with the Dell, HP, etc vendors. The current
    > poster child is the default Mac Pro tower, with dual 2.8GHz quad-core
    > CPUs on a 1600MHz FSB. The last time that I happened to have run
    > prices, it was $1000 cheaper than Dell's closest match.


    Could be. I haven't compared prices and I just ate lunch and I'm feeling too
    tired to do so right now.



    >> You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these
    >> expensive
    >> Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.

    >
    > To be fair, I have seen reports of Linux users doing just this, but I
    > would personally hesitate to claim that their segment is significant
    > unless I had numbers to back up just such a claim. Is there any
    > credible source that claims a specific number?


    It's an inside joke. A while ago someone posted here how Apple Mac sales
    rose something like 58% (made that number up) over the same quarter a year
    ago. One of the die-hard linux "advocates" responded by saying that Mac
    sales may be high but we don't know how many people converted their Macs to
    Linux. The implication being that there is some significant number of people
    who buy a Mac for the purpose of running linux on it.

    I'll agree that the number of people who do this is greater than zero but
    it's closer to zero than to any appreciable percentile.



    > For example, past numbers I've seen are that roughly 2/3rds of Apple's
    > sales are notebooks and that current sales are very roughly 2M units/
    > quarter. Thus, probably around 5M-6M notebooks will be sold in
    > 2008.


    Sounds about right. Last quarter Apple sold about 1.4 million laptops which
    puts it right in the middle of your range.






    > Overall, I have my personal doubts ... but do feel free to identify
    > some relevant posted numbers and build a case...it is a somewhat
    > interesting postulation. OTOH, if you're just going to wave your
    > hands and make vague baseless claims, set your follow-ups to dev/null.


    It was an inside joke in response to a laughable claim made here by an
    "advocate" that implied that some worthwhile number of Macs being sold are
    converted to linux.



    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  12. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs[...]

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 10:54:34 -0700, Ramon F Herrera wrote:

    > The important point is that it has been US (the people who pay for all
    > the hardware and software), we are the ones who have accorded to trust
    > some companies with the *privilege* of being a near monopoly.


    True, but do please explain how that accords with the 'laws of the
    market'.

    Perhaps the greatest economist who ever lived might have seen things
    differently.


    To widen the market and to narrow the competition is always the interest
    of the dealers ... The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce
    which comes from this order, ought always to be listened to with great
    precaution, and ought never to be adopted, till after having been long
    and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the
    most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men, whose interest
    is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an
    interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly
    have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.

    The Wealth of Nations, Book I Chapter XI


    http://www.adamsmith.org/smith/quotes.htm#jump8

    --
    Facts are sacred ... but comment is free

  13. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT), Ramon F Herrera wrote:


    > I keep on reading about the latest "iPhone killer". How come they
    > fail, one after another?
    > -Ramon


    They fail one after the other because they are cheap copies of the real
    thing.

    Look at all these Linux iPhone/iPod killers Schestowitz keeps babbling on
    about.
    Where are they?
    Have they ever seen the light of day as a marketable product?

    People like Apple for a reason and they dislike Linux for the same reason.
    Apple is user friendly, unique, well made and innovative.

    Linux is none of those.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  14. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    Ramon F Herrera wrote:

    >Part of Apple’s runaway
    >success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    >are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    >cool and as stylish as Apple?"


    I must say those Apple ads, with the hip young guy as "the Mac" and
    the dorky old guy as "the PC", were pretty effective...


  15. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 13:12:08 -0500, chrisv wrote:

    > Ramon F Herrera wrote:
    >
    >>Part of Apple’s runaway
    >>success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    >>are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    >>cool and as stylish as Apple?"

    >
    > I must say those Apple ads, with the hip young guy as "the Mac" and
    > the dorky old guy as "the PC", were pretty effective...


    You Linux guys should chip in and put Roy Schestowitz in a commercial for
    Linux!

    A real dynamic speaker he is for sure!

    http://www.linux.com/feature/122470

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  16. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    * Ramon F Herrera peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > "The news that Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    > PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market mush have
    > sent shivers through some of the big OEMs. Part of Apple?s runaway
    > success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    > are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    > cool and as stylish as Apple?"
    >
    > http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1903&tag=nl.e539


    14% of /what/ market? "Market" needs a little clarifying here.
    Interesting news, though.

    --
    Microsoft is not about greed. It's about innovation and fairness.
    -- Bill Gates

  17. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    * Ramon F Herrera peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On May 22, 1:12 pm, "Ezekiel" wrote:
    >>
    >> You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    >> Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.

    >
    > You are obviously trying to talk with Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, the
    > author of the article. For some reason you seem to believe that he
    > follows COLA and/or the Mac advocacy group.


    Zeke must be sleepwalking.

    > If you want to contact him, this is his blog:
    >
    > http://blogs.zdnet.com/bio.php?id=hughes


    --
    I believe that if you show people the problems and you show them the
    solutions they will be moved to act.
    -- Bill Gates

  18. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    On May 22, 2:12 pm, chrisv wrote:
    > Ramon F Herrera wrote:
    > >Part of Apple’s runaway
    > >success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    > >are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    > >cool and as stylish as Apple?"

    >


    > I must say those Apple ads, with the hip young guy as "the Mac" and
    > the dorky old guy as "the PC", were pretty effective...


    Not only that, but Apple has always been legendary in the "product
    placement" arena. Do you think that all those Macs in the sets of
    "Night Court" (1984!), "Seinfeld", etc., etc. are there by
    coincidence?

    Some of the advertising is for free. I doubt that Apple pays a penny
    to Bill Amend, the author of the FoxTrot.

    http://www.gocomics.com/foxtrot/

    -RFH

    "The problem with Microsoft is that they don't have any taste."
    -Steve Jobs

    "They are not evil, they just don't know how to write software."
    -Linus Torvalds



  19. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    In article , "Ezekiel"
    wrote:

    > >"Ramon F Herrera" wrote in message
    > >news:1e9f0a14-68df-4177-a133->ce9df307229a@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
    > >
    > >"The news that Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    > >PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market mush have
    > >sent shivers through some of the big OEMs. Part of Apple’s runaway
    > >success has to be down to the fact that the company and its products
    > >are seen as being cool and stylish. Could an OEM like Dell ever be as
    > >cool and as stylish as Apple?"
    > >
    > >[...]
    > >
    > >http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1903&tag=nl.e539
    > >http://tinyurl.com/6epa7q
    > >
    > >-RFH

    >
    > I saw this last night. A part (a big part) is that there is soooo much
    > competition in the PC/Windows segment which causes prices to be more
    > competitive and lower. Apple... yeah there's certainly that "glitz" factor
    > but there's also a complete lack of competition for Mac products.
    >
    > You forgot to mention the part where lots of people who buy these expensive
    > Macs immediately format the hard drive and install linux.


    For some peculiar value of "lots".

    I've got Linux (and Win2K) installed and running on a couple of my Macs,
    by the bye; no reformatting needed, nor do I use Linux most of the time
    on either of them. Occasionally though...

  20. Re: Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of PCs [...]

    In article ,
    Robin T Cox wrote:

    > On Thu, 22 May 2008 10:04:23 -0700, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
    >
    > > Apple now commands a massive 66% of the market share of
    > > PCs costing more than $1,000 and 14% of the overall market

    >
    > Translation: Another proprietary operating system bites the dust.


    Riiiiiiight.

    Anyone can have their own opinions, and do; you don't get to have your
    own facts.

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