[News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly - Linux ; Technology versus ideology ,----[ Quote ] | Some of the topics that have come up in the DistroWatch Weekly discussion | forum recently is the issue of violating the GPL by some distributions and | the question of boycotting Novell ...

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Thread: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

  1. [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

    Technology versus ideology

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Some of the topics that have come up in the DistroWatch Weekly discussion
    | forum recently is the issue of violating the GPL by some distributions and
    | the question of boycotting Novell and its products due to the company's role
    | in legitimising the infamous Linux patent claim by Microsoft. Some readers
    | went as far as asking us to remove certain distributions from the DistroWatch
    | list, while others want us take a more active role in exposing Novell's
    | patent deal and its implications on the future of Linux and open source
    | software. Although all these readers have valid points and we welcome the
    | diversity of opinions in the forum, don't expect DistroWatch to become
    | another Groklaw and to cover these topics extensively here.
    |
    | Why? There are several reasons. Firstly, none of us is a lawyer and none of
    | us intends to become one. While we do agree that a GPL violation is a very
    | serious matter indeed, just because a reader emails us alleging that a
    | project does not comply with its terms and conditions, it doesn't make him
    | right. Until the project is convicted in the court of law, it is innocent.
    | Secondly, there are web sites that are better equipped (in terms of
    | expertise) to deal with GPL violations, patent protection agreements and
    | other lawyer's stuff. Groklaw has been covering these topics for several
    | years, while BoycottNovell.com is another web site that continues to expose
    | the Novell-Microsoft patent protection agreement. For smaller community
    | projects, our friend Béranger will uncover any distribution that does not
    | have a "source" directory on their FTP server. If you feel strongly about
    | licence violations and patent agreements, I suggest you spend more time on
    | the above-mentioned web sites and their forums.
    `----

    http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?is...080519#feature

    Also:

    Hate Ubuntu? It's normal!

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The fact that many people dislike the top distribution is not really a
    | problem. The problem is that many of these folks are extremely vocal on the
    | Internet to express their opinions. While no intelligent reader will ever
    | take them seriously, they do give the Linux community a bad name and
    | discourage potential Linux users from joining us. Can anything be done about
    | this? Not much, it seems. Until people start reading their own posts and
    | realise that senseless negativity towards the most popular distribution is
    | counter-productive, we will have to live with the unfortunate fact that the
    | top dog will always be the most hated one too - at least in the more immature
    | and destructive circles on the Internet.
    `----

    http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?is...080519#feature

    Ubuntu isn't too harmful. Progress is made for everyone to share (it's GPL).

    Weekly Newsletter #91

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | * FOSSCamp 2008 Prague
    | * The Art of Release(Mark Shuttleworth)
    | * Making 5-a-day happen in “Your Loco team”
    | * Ubuntu Stats
    | * Launchpad News
    | * Ubuntu Forums News
    | * In the Press & Blogosphere
    | * In Other News
    | * Upcoming Meetings & Events
    | * Updates & Security
    `----

    http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1447

  2. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

    On 2008-05-19, Roy Schestowitz claimed:

    > Hate Ubuntu? It's normal!
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    >| The fact that many people dislike the top distribution is not really a
    >| problem. The problem is that many of these folks are extremely vocal on the
    >| Internet to express their opinions. While no intelligent reader will ever
    >| take them seriously, they do give the Linux community a bad name and
    >| discourage potential Linux users from joining us. Can anything be done about
    >| this? Not much, it seems. Until people start reading their own posts and
    >| realise that senseless negativity towards the most popular distribution is
    >| counter-productive, we will have to live with the unfortunate fact that the
    >| top dog will always be the most hated one too - at least in the more immature
    >| and destructive circles on the Internet.
    > `----
    >
    > http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?is...080519#feature


    While I don't count myself among them, I've seen a number of detractors
    from Ubuntu and the offspring. However, a lot of those I encounter
    don't seem to fit the mold described above. Rather, most seem to be put
    off by many Ubuntu users treating it as if it was the /only/ linux
    version available.

    Have a lightweight older laptop? Many Ubuntu users will recommend
    Ubuntu. Need a server distro? Ubuntu users are often quick to recommend
    Ubuntu. Have a problem with Fedora? Sometimes Ubuntu users will
    recommend changing to Ubuntu to solve it.

    Those are small examples of the types of things I run across. Some
    people view the stock recommendations of Ubuntu users for everybody to
    use Ubuntu as a slap at all of the others. In fact, with some people
    those recommendations appear to be exactly what they're doing.

    I don't have a personal problem with people who hold some zeal for
    their preferred distro. It would be nice if they would all at least
    pretend to know that others exist from time to time, though. Many do,
    but a fair number don't seem to act that way.

    As for me, I have problems with Ubuntu on my main machine, and always
    have. My problems are specific, and they happen with Ubuntu, Kubuntu
    and Xubuntu. Strangely, I don't have the same problems with Linux Mint,
    which is an offshoot. And I only saw minor similarites when Mepis used
    the Ubuntu repositories for awhile.

    Specifically, I get frequent hesitations. The machine doesn't lock up
    per se. It just pauses for a second. Nothing really problematic. But
    something certainly annoying after a couple of days. And it's been
    going on since the very first time I tried Ubuntu, right up to the last
    version (7.whatever). It happens on this machine. It happened on the
    last machine. It happens on the laptop. It happens on the Mac. It also
    happened a little with the persistent drive I used to carry around. I
    dismissed that because I expected most anything I used that way would
    give me similar results (though probably not as pronounced).

    As I say, though, I don't really have a problem with a lot of people
    liking and using Ubuntu. More power to them. I'd bet eventually that
    will wear off. Just like it did with others in the past.

    But I do believe that a lot of the distaste toward Ubuntu that some
    people seem to have has more to do with the attitudes of a great many
    of the people using it, not so much with its popularity.

    --
    "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like
    the Windows people."

  3. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

    ____/ Sinister Midget on Tuesday 20 May 2008 01:37 : \____

    > Specifically, I get frequent hesitations. The machine doesn't lock up
    > per se. It just pauses for a second.


    With Vista that happens too. People report pauses of up to 15 seconds. They
    have a problem with the scheduler and this was acknowledged by Microsoft about
    a year ago:

    Those Dang DPCs Clogging the MMCSS [or "Why Vista Scheduling is Broken"]

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Critical optimizations such as zero-copy aside, there is no excusable reason
    | why processing IP packets should so damagingly affect the system. *
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Putting aside the larger problem for the moment, there are several issues
    | with this solution. It prioritizes multimedia playback over networking
    | performance, which, as the resulting clamor has shown, is not everyone's
    | personal policy preference. It is almost assuredly a layering violation. It
    | picks a fixed and hard-coded packet limit (ten per millisecond), which won't
    | scale across different hardware—think significantly faster processors or
    | substantially slower networking drivers. It ignores the commonality of GigE.
    | And, finally, the solution is complicated, as the convoluted description and
    | resulting bugs in the implementation demonstrate. * * * *
    `----

    http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2007/0...ry-simple.html

    Also:

    Vista team blogs about audio glitches

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Yesterday, Microsoft's program manager for sound in Windows Vista (what a
    | great title!), Steve Ball, posted a *blog entry explaining why audio playback
    | sometimes gets glitchy in Windows. *
    `----

    http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-980...=2547-1_3-0-20

    Why Vista can't play music properly, blame placed on CPU, Vista innocent

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Steve Ball, Senior Program Manager for Sound in Windows Vista, explains why
    | Vista isn't to blame for the all-singing, all-dancing OS not being able to
    | play music properly. Everything but Vista is to blame.
    `----

    http://digg.com/software/Why_Vista_c...Vista_innocent

    Let me see if I can quickly find an example.

    Okay, I spend like 30 seconds on it. I couldn't find the example I had in mind,
    but I found this:

    Diebold quietly repaired voting machines

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | The unpredictable freezes don't cause votes to be lost, officials
    | said, but they confuse voters and election judges who sometimes
    | wonder whether votes cast on a frozen machine will be counted.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | Diebold Election Systems quietly replaced flawed components in
    | several thousand Maryland voting machines in 2005 to fix a
    | "screen-freeze" problem the company had discovered three years
    | earlier, according to published reports Thursday.
    `----

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061027/...oting_machines

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    "It just tells you how desperate Microsoft is for a competitor that they’re
    holding up a software box produced by 100 guys in the hills of North Carolina.
    Who are they trying to kid?"
    --Robert Young, CEO of Red Hat
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    03:20:01 up 35 days, 1:32, 4 users, load average: 0.89, 1.11, 1.25
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  4. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

    On 2008-05-20, Sinister Midget wrote:
    > On 2008-05-19, Roy Schestowitz claimed:
    >
    >> Hate Ubuntu? It's normal!
    >>
    >> ,----[ Quote ]
    >>| The fact that many people dislike the top distribution is not really a
    >>| problem. The problem is that many of these folks are extremely vocal on the
    >>| Internet to express their opinions. While no intelligent reader will ever
    >>| take them seriously, they do give the Linux community a bad name and
    >>| discourage potential Linux users from joining us. Can anything be done about
    >>| this? Not much, it seems. Until people start reading their own posts and
    >>| realise that senseless negativity towards the most popular distribution is
    >>| counter-productive, we will have to live with the unfortunate fact that the
    >>| top dog will always be the most hated one too - at least in the more immature
    >>| and destructive circles on the Internet.
    >> `----
    >>
    >> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?is...080519#feature

    >
    > While I don't count myself among them, I've seen a number of detractors
    > from Ubuntu and the offspring. However, a lot of those I encounter
    > don't seem to fit the mold described above. Rather, most seem to be put
    > off by many Ubuntu users treating it as if it was the /only/ linux
    > version available.
    >
    > Have a lightweight older laptop? Many Ubuntu users will recommend
    > Ubuntu. Need a server distro? Ubuntu users are often quick to recommend
    > Ubuntu. Have a problem with Fedora? Sometimes Ubuntu users will
    > recommend changing to Ubuntu to solve it.


    ....well, Ubuntu does have a number of variants tuned to different
    workloads. Ubuntu is a fork of one of the top server distributions.
    Everyone pushing Ubuntu is much like people pushing the Debian net
    install. Install the base and use apt to quickly work up to the
    extra functionality you need with minimal overhead.

    >
    > Those are small examples of the types of things I run across. Some
    > people view the stock recommendations of Ubuntu users for everybody to
    > use Ubuntu as a slap at all of the others. In fact, with some people
    > those recommendations appear to be exactly what they're doing.
    >


    ....well, don't pick a bad example like Fedora.

    You could at least point out something like OpenSuse or Centos.

    I never directed people towards Mandrake Cooker even when I was using that.

    [deletia]

    There is bound to be some reaction to whatever is popular just
    because it's popular. Something like Linux attracts a lot of
    that sort of people as opposed to people that are just genuinely
    dissatisfied with other alternatives.

    --

    Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good. |||
    / | \

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  5. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatchWeekly

    Verily I say unto thee, that Sinister Midget spake thusly:

    > Specifically, I get frequent hesitations. The machine doesn't lock up
    > per se. It just pauses for a second.


    That's most likely a kernel issue, which may not be distro-specific.
    This is why (like you) I dislike it when people recommend switching
    distros to "fix" problems. I also don't think that "upgrading" a
    perfectly working kernel for the Hell of it, is such a great idea.

    If it ain't broke...

    I have a bunch of excludes that I set in YUM, including the kernel and
    related kmods. Unless there's some remotely exploitable vulnerability
    that I desperately need to patch, I'll just leave the kernel alone. This
    also allows me to have long uptimes, so that works out well

    You don't say if you're using a stock kernel or an update, but whatever
    I would think that "tail -f /var/log/messages" might be useful during
    these hiccups. At least it'll give you a place to start with bug reports.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    01:20:11 up 151 days, 21:56, 6 users, load average: 0.22, 0.15, 0.26

  6. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

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    Hash: SHA1

    ____/ Homer on Wednesday 21 May 2008 01:20 : \____

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Sinister Midget spake thusly:
    >
    >> Specifically, I get frequent hesitations. The machine doesn't lock up
    >> per se. It just pauses for a second.

    >
    > That's most likely a kernel issue, which may not be distro-specific.
    > This is why (like you) I dislike it when people recommend switching
    > distros to "fix" problems. I also don't think that "upgrading" a
    > perfectly working kernel for the Hell of it, is such a great idea.
    >
    > If it ain't broke...
    >
    > I have a bunch of excludes that I set in YUM, including the kernel and
    > related kmods. Unless there's some remotely exploitable vulnerability
    > that I desperately need to patch, I'll just leave the kernel alone. This
    > also allows me to have long uptimes, so that works out well
    >
    > You don't say if you're using a stock kernel or an update, but whatever
    > I would think that "tail -f /var/log/messages" might be useful during
    > these hiccups. At least it'll give you a place to start with bug reports.


    That's also why Linux pre-installation is important.

    - --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Real E-mail -> Harvest -> Fraud -> Spammers profit
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    04:05:01 up 36 days, 2:17, 4 users, load average: 1.04, 0.83, 1.08
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
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  7. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatchWeekly

    Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:

    > That's also why Linux pre-installation is important.


    But a pre-install doesn't prevent users from updating the kernel to one
    that may not work properly on their hardware. The kernel is a fast
    moving target that changes a great deal and very quickly, and if someone
    has a kernel that works with any given hardware, then they should leave
    it be, rather than succumbing to "upgradeitice".

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    16:51:11 up 153 days, 13:27, 5 users, load average: 0.26, 0.20, 0.21

  8. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

    ____/ Homer on Thursday 22 May 2008 16:51 : \____

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >
    >> That's also why Linux pre-installation is important.

    >
    > But a pre-install doesn't prevent users from updating the kernel to one
    > that may not work properly on their hardware. The kernel is a fast
    > moving target that changes a great deal and very quickly, and if someone
    > has a kernel that works with any given hardware, then they should leave
    > it be, rather than succumbing to "upgradeitice".


    Could use CentOS and just keep the same kernel (with maintenance updates)
    up-to-date. It's probably a question or sorting out an OEM deal like Red Hat
    was going to do.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Vista: as the reputation of "Longhorn" was mucked
    http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Cpu(s): 24.4%us, 3.6%sy, 1.0%ni, 66.6%id, 4.1%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.1%si, 0.0%st
    http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information

  9. Re: [News] Ubuntu Revolt and Novell Revolt Covered in DistroWatch Weekly

    On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:19:08 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > ____/ Homer on Thursday 22 May 2008 16:51 : \____
    >
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> That's also why Linux pre-installation is important.

    >>
    >> But a pre-install doesn't prevent users from updating the kernel to one
    >> that may not work properly on their hardware. The kernel is a fast
    >> moving target that changes a great deal and very quickly, and if someone
    >> has a kernel that works with any given hardware, then they should leave
    >> it be, rather than succumbing to "upgradeitice".

    >
    > Could use CentOS and just keep the same kernel (with maintenance updates)
    > up-to-date. It's probably a question or sorting out an OEM deal like Red Hat
    > was going to do.


    Redhat no longer makes a consumer Linux desktop product.
    They abandoned it because they realized that there is no demand for
    consumer Linux desktop.

    Much like the BBC did.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

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