How long have you been a Linux user? - Linux

This is a discussion on How long have you been a Linux user? - Linux ; AqD wrote: > Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now), which make it > useless for the majority of humans. Errrr, try this one instead... Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now) which makes it useless for people ...

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Thread: How long have you been a Linux user?

  1. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    AqD wrote:
    > Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now), which make it
    > useless for the majority of humans.


    Errrr, try this one instead...
    Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now) which makes it
    useless for people in those countries. The vast majority of whom have never
    even seen a computer. Let alone tried to run abiword on it.

    For the more technically advanced segments of the CJK groups (south korea
    and japan)... why don't they fix it then? That's what internationalisation's
    all about. Hell, someone even added Welsh to open office and that's a vastly
    smaller population than japan. (people who actually speak and read welsh)

    OK, welsh was less complicated to add due to the alphabet rather than
    pictogram and left to right rather than right to left thing... but still...

    > Sun OS desktop was far better than linux GUI at that time.


    Well Duuuuuh.

    That's comparing a mature product that'd been around for ages to something a
    bloke knocked up in his spare time a year before.
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  2. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> When I started with it, Gnome was just fine, quite on par with Windows
    >> NT 4. And the whole LGX (Linux/GNU/X-Windows) systems was very
    >> competitive with Win 2000 when that came out, and it worked better.

    >
    > The core functions, yes. But most PC users would NOT use an OS which
    > lack office suites and other basic applications.


    No ****, Sherlock.

    But you already had Wordperfect in 1995/96.

    >> Big deal. When I came in, there was Abiword, Gnumeric, Pan, Balsa, and
    >> the old standby, Netscape Navigator and email/news client. That was
    >> only two/three years later.

    >
    > Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now), which make it
    > useless for the majority of humans.


    So what? Other apps do, now.

    Look, Eagle Dude, things start out small, then they evolve.

    Windows 1 was a piece of crap. I remember see it at an Atari club
    meeting. Pure garbage.

    And look how /FAR/ it has come. Today, it gives users conniption fits.

    > So your claim is false, because linux in 1997 indeed sucked.


    Obviously, it did not suck, as it survived and grew, and is thriving
    11 years later.

    >> Besides, I was using Sun OS around 1992, five years before your Linux
    >> experience, and it was pretty cool. Networked graphics, the ability
    >> to capture other people's screens, the ability to send sounds to their
    >> desktop... Comparable to Windows 3.0 in looks, but far superior in
    >> almost every other way.

    >
    > Sun OS desktop was far better than linux GUI at that time.


    No ****. Linux was what, 1 year old then? Primarily a product of one
    young Finnish dude?

    And look how /FAR/ it has come. Today, it gives Sun and Microsoft
    conniption fits. And it didn't have a predatory monopolist to push it
    into existence. Quite amazing, really.

    --
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    -- Bill Gates

  3. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    "DFS" writes:

    > Ezekiel wrote:
    >> "Linonut" wrote in message
    >> news:_agXj.67318$%15.10948@bignews7.bellsouth.net. ..
    >>> * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> On May 16, 8:03 am, Linonut wrote:

    >>
    >>> In any case, if magically Windows were to disappear entirely today, I
    >>> would not miss it. Not in the least. It is a confining, and
    >>> somewhat boring environment. But that's just me.

    >>
    >> Except for the fact that you and 90% of the COLA "advocates" would
    >> become unemployed Windows programmers.

    >
    > No no no. Linocrite is a "cross-platform" developer. So is Ian Hilliard.


    And Ian selects his target OS *AFTER* designing his SW!!!!!

  4. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On Sat, 17 May 2008 08:31:58 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >>> When I started with it, Gnome was just fine, quite on par with Windows
    >>> NT 4. And the whole LGX (Linux/GNU/X-Windows) systems was very
    >>> competitive with Win 2000 when that came out, and it worked better.

    >>
    >> The core functions, yes. But most PC users would NOT use an OS which
    >> lack office suites and other basic applications.

    >
    > No ****, Sherlock.


    He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit, either
    has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    > But you already had Wordperfect in 1995/96.
    >
    >>> Big deal. When I came in, there was Abiword, Gnumeric, Pan, Balsa, and
    >>> the old standby, Netscape Navigator and email/news client. That was
    >>> only two/three years later.

    >>
    >> Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now), which make it
    >> useless for the majority of humans.

    >
    > So what? Other apps do, now.
    >
    > Look, Eagle Dude, things start out small, then they evolve.
    >
    > Windows 1 was a piece of crap. I remember see it at an Atari club
    > meeting. Pure garbage.
    >
    > And look how /FAR/ it has come. Today, it gives users conniption fits.
    >
    >> So your claim is false, because linux in 1997 indeed sucked.

    >
    > Obviously, it did not suck, as it survived and grew, and is thriving 11
    > years later.
    >
    >>> Besides, I was using Sun OS around 1992, five years before your Linux
    >>> experience, and it was pretty cool. Networked graphics, the ability to
    >>> capture other people's screens, the ability to send sounds to their
    >>> desktop... Comparable to Windows 3.0 in looks, but far superior in
    >>> almost every other way.

    >>
    >> Sun OS desktop was far better than linux GUI at that time.

    >
    > No ****. Linux was what, 1 year old then? Primarily a product of one
    > young Finnish dude?
    >
    > And look how /FAR/ it has come. Today, it gives Sun and Microsoft
    > conniption fits. And it didn't have a predatory monopolist to push it
    > into existence. Quite amazing, really.


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  5. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    Hadron wrote:

    > And Ian selects his target OS *AFTER* designing his SW!!!!!


    Amazing, isn't it?

    first: "the OS should be chosen to best meet the requirements."

    then: "The actual end platform is then selected based on a series of tests."

    and: "develop a code base for a set of operating systems and then use proper
    testing to select the best one."

    You've heard of "agile" development? This is called crapshoot development.




  6. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On May 17, 8:31 pm, Linonut wrote:
    > *AqDperemptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    > >> When I started with it, Gnome was just fine, quite on par with Windows
    > >> NT 4. And the whole LGX (Linux/GNU/X-Windows) systems was very
    > >> competitive with Win 2000 when that came out, and it worked better.

    >
    > > The core functions, yes. But most PC users would NOT use an OS which
    > > lack office suites and other basic applications.

    >
    > No ****, Sherlock.
    >
    > But you already had Wordperfect in 1995/96.


    I didn't know its existance at that time, because most linux users
    don't know or just ignore their crapware.

    Wordperfect on linux is NOT the same thing as wordperfect on windows.

    >
    > >> Big deal. When I came in, there was Abiword, Gnumeric, Pan, Balsa, and
    > >> the old standby, Netscape Navigator and email/news client. That was
    > >> only two/three years later.

    >
    > > Abiword cannot open CJK documents correctly (even now), which make it
    > > useless for the majority of humans.

    >
    > So what? Other apps do, now.


    Now, not 8 years before.

    >
    > Look, Eagle Dude, things start out small, then they evolve.
    >
    > Windows 1 was a piece of crap. I remember see it at an Atari club
    > meeting. Pure garbage.
    >
    > And look how /FAR/ it has come. Today, it gives users conniption fits.
    >
    > > So your claim is false, because linux in 1997 indeed sucked.

    >
    > Obviously, it did not suck, as it survived and grew, and is thriving
    > 11 years later.


    By this logic, windows 1.0 didn't suck, too, because windows has
    survived and grew, and became the most popular OS in the world.

    ridiculous!

    >
    > >> Besides, I was using Sun OS around 1992, five years before your Linux
    > >> experience, and it was pretty cool. Networked graphics, the ability
    > >> to capture other people's screens, the ability to send sounds to their
    > >> desktop... Comparable to Windows 3.0 in looks, but far superior in
    > >> almost every other way.

    >
    > > Sun OS desktop was far better than linux GUI at that time.

    >
    > No ****. Linux was what, 1 year old then? Primarily a product of one
    > young Finnish dude?
    >
    > And look how /FAR/ it has come. Today, it gives Sun and Microsoft
    > conniption fits. And it didn't have a predatory monopolist to push it
    > into existence. Quite amazing, really.


    Yes, BUT YOU CLAIMED THE TIME DOESN'T MATTER.

    It's a lie.

  7. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On May 17, 9:07 pm, William Poaster wrote:
    > On Sat, 17 May 2008 08:31:58 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    > > *AqDperemptorily fired off this memo:

    >
    > >>> When I started with it, Gnome was just fine, quite on par with Windows
    > >>> NT 4. And the whole LGX (Linux/GNU/X-Windows) systems was very
    > >>> competitive with Win 2000 when that came out, and it worked better.

    >
    > >> The core functions, yes. But most PC users would NOT use an OS which
    > >> lack office suites and other basic applications.

    >
    > > No ****, Sherlock.

    >
    > He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    > doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit, either
    > has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.


    But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.

  8. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    AqD writes:

    > On May 17, 9:07 pm, William Poaster wrote:
    >> On Sat, 17 May 2008 08:31:58 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >> > *AqDperemptorily fired off this memo:

    >>
    >> >>> When I started with it, Gnome was just fine, quite on par with Windows
    >> >>> NT 4. And the whole LGX (Linux/GNU/X-Windows) systems was very
    >> >>> competitive with Win 2000 when that came out, and it worked better.

    >>
    >> >> The core functions, yes. But most PC users would NOT use an OS which
    >> >> lack office suites and other basic applications.

    >>
    >> > No ****, Sherlock.

    >>
    >> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    >> doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit, either
    >> has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >
    > But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.


    And most Linux users have to download it too.

  9. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    Hadron wrote:
    >>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    >>> doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit, either
    >>> has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >>
    >> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.

    >
    > And most Linux users have to download it too.


    Download what open office?
    GOSH, do you ever say anything that's TRUE?
    Name one (main) distribution that hasn't included open office as PART OF THE
    DISTRIBUTION for the past 3 years or more? Hell, SuSE used to ship with star
    office 5 all the way back in 2001.
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    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | |
    | Andrew Halliwell BSc | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
    | in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
    | Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |

  10. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    Andrew Halliwell writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >>>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    >>>> doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit, either
    >>>> has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.
    >>>
    >>> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.

    >>
    >> And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >
    > Download what open office?
    > GOSH, do you ever say anything that's TRUE?
    > Name one (main) distribution that hasn't included open office as PART OF THE
    > DISTRIBUTION for the past 3 years or more? Hell, SuSE used to ship with star
    > office 5 all the way back in 2001.


    Where do you think people get the distribution?

    ps I installed using Debian business card. Go figure it out.

    --
    "Yes, I am a nymshifting troll. I used to be called Rafael, but since the operation I prefer to be called Robin T Cox."
    High Plains Shifter, COLA.

  11. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:50:56 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >>>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    >>>> doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit,
    >>>> either has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.
    >>>
    >>> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.


    Which idiot said that?

    >> And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >
    > Download what open office?
    > GOSH, do you ever say anything that's TRUE? Name one (main) distribution
    > that hasn't included open office as PART OF THE DISTRIBUTION for the past
    > 3 years or more?


    Quack just proving he's no idea, yet again.

    > Hell, SuSE used to ship with star office 5 all the way back in 2001.


    Before that even, in 2000. And IIRC SuSE 5.2 (1998) came with Star Office
    5.0.

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  12. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    William Poaster writes:

    > On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:50:56 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    >>>>> doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit,
    >>>>> either has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.
    >>>>
    >>>> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.

    >
    > Which idiot said that?


    Please list all the choices back then that worked.

    >
    >>> And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >>
    >> Download what open office?
    >> GOSH, do you ever say anything that's TRUE? Name one (main) distribution
    >> that hasn't included open office as PART OF THE DISTRIBUTION for the past
    >> 3 years or more?

    >
    > Quack just proving he's no idea, yet again.


    Sigh. You're such a little "me too"er you almost redefine the genre.

    >
    >> Hell, SuSE used to ship with star office 5 all the way back in 2001.

    >
    > Before that even, in 2000. And IIRC SuSE 5.2 (1998) came with Star Office
    > 5.0.


    So what?

    --
    I really think XP is going to be a flop. Between the glut of hardware out
    there (and slowing down of purchasing), and the fact that W2K is
    sufficient for so many casual users.... I just don't see it taking off.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  13. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On May 18, 5:50 pm, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    > Hadron wrote:
    > >>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is basic &
    > >>> doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use a suit, either
    > >>> has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >
    > >> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on linux.

    >
    > > And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >
    > Download what open office?


    I was referring to wordpefect office for linux in 1997. There was no
    other office suite for linux at that time.

  14. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On Sun, 18 May 2008 05:10:56 -0700, AqD wrote:

    > On May 18, 5:50 pm, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>
    >> >>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is
    >> >>> basic & doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to
    >> >>> use a suit, either has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >>
    >> >> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on
    >> >> linux.

    >>
    >> > And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >>
    >> Download what open office?

    >
    > I was referring to wordpefect office for linux in 1997. There was no
    > other office suite for linux at that time.


    Wrong, applixware was available in 1996 if not earlier. Red Hat
    produced an office box set which included it.

    I was surprised when Sun bought staroffice when internally Sun used
    applixware at the time. IMHO applixware was superior to staroffice at
    the time.

  15. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    Linonut wrote:
    >> Wordperfect on linux is NOT the same thing as wordperfect on windows.

    >
    > Sure it was. It was based on wine, I believe. There was another word
    > processor out there, too. Applix, I believe.


    Wordperfect 8 was native.
    It only relied on WINE when Wordperfect Office 2000 was released.

    --
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | |
    | Andrew Halliwell BSc | "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
    | in | suck is probably the day they start making |
    | Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |

  16. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    * Andrew Halliwell peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Linonut wrote:
    >>> Wordperfect on linux is NOT the same thing as wordperfect on windows.

    >>
    >> Sure it was. It was based on wine, I believe. There was another word
    >> processor out there, too. Applix, I believe.

    >
    > Wordperfect 8 was native.
    > It only relied on WINE when Wordperfect Office 2000 was released.


    Thanks!

    --
    It's a business I don't know anything about, but I admire Bill Gates
    enormously. I know him individually, and I think he's incredible in business.
    -- Warren Buffett, in lecture at Kenan-Flagler Business School, University
    of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (1994)

  17. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On May 18, 8:50 pm, Dick Duck wrote:
    > On Sun, 18 May 2008 05:10:56 -0700, AqD wrote:
    > > On May 18, 5:50 pm, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    > >> Hadron wrote:

    >
    > >> >>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is
    > >> >>> basic & doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to
    > >> >>> use a suit, either has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >
    > >> >> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on
    > >> >> linux.

    >
    > >> > And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >
    > >> Download what open office?

    >
    > > I was referring to wordpefect office for linux in 1997. There was no
    > > other office suite for linux at that time.

    >
    > Wrong, applixware was available in 1996 if not earlier. Red Hat
    > produced an office box set which included it.
    >
    > I was surprised when Sun bought staroffice when internally Sun used
    > applixware at the time. IMHO applixware was superior to staroffice at
    > the time.


    applixware is not compatible with other major office suites - which
    means it's almost useless for home/company PC users, unless you have a
    big company or government department and force everyone to use it (and
    very unlikely because linux wasn't popular either)

  18. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    "ray" wrote in message
    news:69436qF2u6vn2U1@mid.individual.net...
    > On Thu, 15 May 2008 16:26:41 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 15 May 2008 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT), carlie@linuxjournal.com wrote:
    >>
    >>> Linux Journal is polling to find out how long people have individually
    >>> been using Linux.
    >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/...een-linux-user

    >>
    >> They should add the word continuously into that survey because most
    >> people:
    >>
    >> Try Linux
    >> Dump Linux

    > BS
    >> Try Linux
    >> Dump Linux

    > BS
    >> Try Linux
    >> Dump Linux

    > BS
    >>
    >> and over and over again each time hoping Linux has improved and they can
    >> finally move off Windows.

    >
    > BS - I have never known a single person to do that. The vast majority of
    > folks I'm aquainted with try Linux and stay there. A few give up and go
    > back to MS - unable to make the change; but I've never known a single
    > person to go through the crap you're trying to make us believe is
    > standard.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> It hasn't happened for most yet based upon the 0.65 percent of desktop
    >> market share Linux has.

    >



    I'd say that I've been a Linux user for about two hours over the last 12
    years.
    Install Linux, run it for 10 minutes, decide it ain't ready for prime time
    yet.
    Try again next year.

    I keep hoping ... maybe some day ... but not today.



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  19. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:23:37 -0700, AqD wrote:

    > On May 18, 8:50 pm, Dick Duck wrote:
    >> On Sun, 18 May 2008 05:10:56 -0700, AqD wrote:
    >> > On May 18, 5:50 pm, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    >> >> Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >> >> >>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is
    >> >> >>> basic & doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use
    >> >> >>> a suit, either has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >>
    >> >> >> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on
    >> >> >> linux.

    >>
    >> >> > And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >>
    >> >> Download what open office?

    >>
    >> > I was referring to wordpefect office for linux in 1997. There was no
    >> > other office suite for linux at that time.

    >>
    >> Wrong, applixware was available in 1996 if not earlier. Red Hat
    >> produced an office box set which included it.
    >>
    >> I was surprised when Sun bought staroffice when internally Sun used
    >> applixware at the time. IMHO applixware was superior to staroffice at
    >> the time.

    >
    > applixware is not compatible with other major office suites - which
    > means it's almost useless for home/company PC users, unless you have
    > a big company or government department and force everyone to use it
    > (and very unlikely because linux wasn't popular either)


    It had filters to read other formats including ms word. It was very
    fast and very configurable. It was a bit like emacs in that engines
    provided the basic functionality and a kind of macro language was used
    to produce the full blown app. I have no doubt if Sun had purchased
    applixware instead of staroffice we'd have a better leaner office
    suite today than oo.o or staroffice.

  20. Re: How long have you been a Linux user?

    On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:23:37 -0700, AqD wrote:

    > On May 18, 8:50 pm, Dick Duck wrote:
    >> On Sun, 18 May 2008 05:10:56 -0700, AqD wrote:
    >> > On May 18, 5:50 pm, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
    >> >> Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >> >> >>> He should tell that to the windoze using masses, as windoze is
    >> >> >>> basic & doesn't come with any office suit. Anyone wanting to use
    >> >> >>> a suit, either has to *buy* one, or download OpenOffice.

    >>
    >> >> >> But you have a choice. There wasn't any choice back in 1997 on
    >> >> >> linux.

    >>
    >> >> > And most Linux users have to download it too.

    >>
    >> >> Download what open office?

    >>
    >> > I was referring to wordpefect office for linux in 1997. There was no
    >> > other office suite for linux at that time.

    >>
    >> Wrong, applixware was available in 1996 if not earlier. Red Hat
    >> produced an office box set which included it.
    >>
    >> I was surprised when Sun bought staroffice when internally Sun used
    >> applixware at the time. IMHO applixware was superior to staroffice at
    >> the time.

    >
    > applixware is not compatible with other major office suites - which
    > means it's almost useless for home/company PC users, unless you have
    > a big company or government department and force everyone to use it
    > (and very unlikely because linux wasn't popular either)


    It had filters to read other formats including ms word. It was very
    fast and very configurable. It was a bit like emacs in that engines
    provided the basic functionality and a kind of macro language was used
    to produce the full blown app. I have no doubt if Sun had purchased
    applixware instead of staroffice we'd have a better leaner office
    suite today than oo.o or staroffice.

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