alt writes:

> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>
> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>
> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>
> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
> life.
>
>

Weren't they supposed to be for disadvantaged people?

What will you be using them for that your current set up doesnt handle?
I have a PiV working as mysql server, apache server, mail server and
general file server. It has LOADS of bandwidth spare. Why have 4 or 5
****ty little machines burning up power?

--
If you take both of those factors together then WinXP is a flop, selling
*less* than Win 98 by a factor of two.
comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they the lunacy in advocacy

"alt" wrote in message
news:9sOdndFlZOQEA73VnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>
> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>
> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>
> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
> life.
>
>

Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the curb so
that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global warming.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"alt" schreef in bericht
news:9sOdndFlZOQEA73VnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>
> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>
> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>
> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
> life.
>

You ****ing idiot! *NOBODY* wants Linux, "freedom of choice", huh!
You force them right into Linux hell!
Read the Faq

"Ezekiel" schreef in bericht
news:9ec5$48209f61$15454@news.teranews.com...
>
> "alt" wrote in message
> news:9sOdndFlZOQEA73VnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
>> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
>> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
>> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
>> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
>> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
>> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>>
>> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
>> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
>> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
>> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>>
>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
>> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
>> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
>> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
>> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
>> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>>
>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
>> life.
>>
>>
>
> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the curb
> so that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global warming.

lol ! we won't hear anything from alti for at least one month, cos he's too
busy solving hardware issues, downloading crappy linux drivers and
installing those oddball Linux apps.
Then he comes back saying "I installed Linux on 9 old machines "flawlessly".
What a moron!

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ezekiel

wrote
on Tue, 6 May 2008 14:11:44 -0400
<9ec5$48209f61$15454@news.teranews.com>:
>
> "alt" wrote in message
> news:9sOdndFlZOQEA73VnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
>> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
>> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
>> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
>> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
>> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
>> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>>
>> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
>> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron.

>> The other 3 are all
>> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
>> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>>
>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
>> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
>> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
>> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
>> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
>> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>>
>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
>> life.
>>
>>
>
> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines
> you found on the curb so that you can needlessly use
> energy and contribute to global warming.

Ezekiel does have a point; newer hardware is
(presumably!) more efficient, and is also reasonably
priced. I'll admit to some curiosity as to whether one has
done power price calculations.

Best I can do here is note that the cheapie Dell Inspiron
530 Desktops (sans monitor) start at $349, and of course come
with Windows Vista Home Basic. This is a 2 GHz Celeron
(440), 800 FSB, 1 GB 667 MHz RAM, 250 GB drive. HP offers
the slightly cheaper a6400z model, with 1.8 GHz AMD Sempron
2100, 1 GB 800 MHz (2x512) RAM, 250GB or free upgrade to
320GB SATA, and (again) Windows Vista Home Basic.

For its part System76 offers its Ratel, with a 1.6 GHz 800
MHz FSB Celeron 420, 512 MB RAM, and 160 GB Sata, clearly
half a generation or a full generation behind, for $349.
eRacks offers its DESQ model, 2.8 Celeron D, 533 MHz FSB,
512 MB, floppy drive (anachronism city?), 80 GB SATAII,
and a $5 donation to the EFF (by default), all for $395.
This also appears at least one generation removed.

Apple has even worse offerings in this price space. The
Mac mini has 1.86 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (this is arguably
a better processor than the Celeron but I'd have to dig)
and 1 GB RAM, but only an 80 GB hard drive, and are quoting
$599 -- and the expandability of said mini is rather poor;
I've got more hard drive space now on my laptop. (Not that
my laptop is all that hot CPU wise, but at least it's got
1 GB RAM now.)

To be fair, the only thing one's out when picking up
discards is effort to refurbish said discards (if any is
needed; no guarantees of course) and the gasoline consumed
while driving around looking for same. Nor am I all that
clear on performance differences of these processors,
and I've not even looked at graphics capabilities -- some
of the Linux boxes, for example, apparently sport rather
good chips.

But Linux vendors may have some work to do, to get their
prices down. Microsoft wins again, if only because
a slicked machine still has that default Vista license,
and Microsoft realizes pure profit thereby (though they
won't get much follow-on during Vista or Win7 revs).

[.sigsnip]

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #889123:
std::vector<...> v; for(int i = 0; i < v.size(); i++) v.erase(v.begin() + i);
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

alt wrote:

> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines.
>
> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
> life.

You could wire a few of them together to experiment with parallel or
distributed computing: make your own toy supercomputer---running Linux,
of course, not Windows.

"Matt" wrote in message
news:fq2Uj.2620$Cn4.675@news02.roc.ny...
> alt wrote:
>
>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. Anyhow. I'll be installing
>> Linux on these boxes to give them a second life.
>
> You could wire a few of them together to experiment with parallel or
> distributed computing: make your own toy supercomputer---running Linux, of
> course, not Windows.

Why not use VMWare (or something like VirtualBox) to create this toy
supercomputer? Why waste all this extra energy for nothing? (x-many power
supplies, x-many video cards, etc.)




** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Clogwog

wrote
on Tue, 6 May 2008 20:56:06 +0200
<20080506185614.699381C00082@mwinf6208.orange.nl>:
> "alt" schreef in bericht
> news:9sOdndFlZOQEA73VnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
>> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
>> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
>> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
>> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
>> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
>> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>>
>> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
>> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
>> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
>> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>>
>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
>> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
>> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
>> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
>> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
>> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>>
>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
>> life.
>>
>
> You ****ing idiot! *NOBODY* wants Linux, "freedom of choice", huh!
> You force them right into Linux hell!
> Read the Faq
>

* alt peremptorily fired off this memo:

> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>
> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
> I've tested 3 of these boards already.

You dumpster diver you!

> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>
> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
> life.


Four machines saved from Windows.

Did I ever tell you you're my hero?



--
Bill Gates is a very rich man today ... and do you want to know why? The answer
is one word: versions.
-- Dave Barry

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut

wrote
on Tue, 6 May 2008 16:18:24 -0400
:
> * alt peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
>> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
>> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff they
>> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
>> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
>> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what is
>> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>>
>> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday (there
>> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
>> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
>> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>
> You dumpster diver you!

Indeed. I'll admit I hope for no ill effects such as
inadvertantly seeing someone's data.

>
>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
>> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
>> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that I
>> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss such
>> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
>> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>>
>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
>> life.
>
>
> Four machines saved from Windows.
>
> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
>
>
>

Pedant point: they were not saved from Windows.
They probably ran Windows prior to discard. ;-)

Still not a bad thing, considering the acquisition price of
said hardware, and they now have a second life as usable
machinery, as opposed to heading for the recycling bin --
or, worse, the trash heap (which in some locales is illegal
because of, among other things, heavy metal toxins).

I'll admit to some curiosity as to which is best, though,
from a cost standpoint (costs including of course such
things as environmental damage, power consumption, and
OS/app replacement):

[1] installing Linux on "outdated" machines.
[2] keeping "outdated" machines on older copies of Windows.
[3] recycling machines and purchasing new ones with Windows.

If one wants to get really silly (and is in a business
environment), one can include additional capabilities:

[4] installing Linux on "outdated" machines, and using ssh to
connect to a central server which does all the heavy lifting,
with the machines displaying the results (ssh -X[Y]).
[5] installing Linux on "outdated" machines, and using rdesktop
to connect to a central server.
[6] recycling machines and purchasing new ones with Windows,
using remote desktop to connect to a central server.

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #992398129:
void f(unsigned u) { if(u < 0) ... }
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Ezekiel wrote:
>
> "Matt" wrote in message
> news:fq2Uj.2620$Cn4.675@news02.roc.ny...
>> alt wrote:
>>
>>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. Anyhow. I'll be installing
>>> Linux on these boxes to give them a second life.
>>
>> You could wire a few of them together to experiment with parallel or
>> distributed computing: make your own toy supercomputer---running Linux, of
>> course, not Windows.
>
> Why not use VMWare (or something like VirtualBox) to create this toy
> supercomputer? Why waste all this extra energy for nothing? (x-many power
> supplies, x-many video cards, etc.)

Once they're setup, you don't need video cards
or keyboards
or mice

But then, in the wonderful world of windows, a headless machine is
unmanagable because it can't be administered fully without access to the
GUI. Oh, I suppose you could VNC into it, but that's incredibly wasteful of
network bandwidth and not something you want to do when you're clustering.

Linux doesn't need a gui, therefore, it doesn't need direct user access at
all. Anything that needs to be done can be done from the control node of the
cluster. via telnet or ssh.
--
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |

* Andrew Halliwell peremptorily fired off this memo:

> Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. Anyhow. I'll be installing
>>>> Linux on these boxes to give them a second life.
>>>
>>> You could wire a few of them together to experiment with parallel or
>>> distributed computing: make your own toy supercomputer---running Linux, of
>>> course, not Windows.
>>
>> Why not use VMWare (or something like VirtualBox) to create this toy
>> supercomputer? Why waste all this extra energy for nothing? (x-many power
>> supplies, x-many video cards, etc.)
>
> Once they're setup, you don't need video cards
> or keyboards
> or mice
>
> But then, in the wonderful world of windows, a headless machine is
> unmanagable because it can't be administered fully without access to the
> GUI. Oh, I suppose you could VNC into it, but that's incredibly wasteful of
> network bandwidth and not something you want to do when you're clustering.

Actually, that is changing, with the latest Powershell, I hear.

Anyway, currently Ezekiel and Clogwog are the dumbest clucks here.

--
We don't have the user centricity. Until we understand context, which is way
beyond presence -- presence is the most trivial notion, just am I on this
device or not; it doesn't say am I meeting with something, am I focused on
writing something.
-- Bill Gates, .NET Briefing Day Speech (24 July 2002)

Andrew Halliwell wrote:

> Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> "Matt" wrote in message
>> news:fq2Uj.2620$Cn4.675@news02.roc.ny...
>>> alt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. Anyhow. I'll be installing
>>>> Linux on these boxes to give them a second life.
>>>
>>> You could wire a few of them together to experiment with parallel or
>>> distributed computing: make your own toy supercomputer---running Linux,
>>> of course, not Windows.
>>
>> Why not use VMWare (or something like VirtualBox) to create this toy
>> supercomputer? Why waste all this extra energy for nothing? (x-many
>> power supplies, x-many video cards, etc.)
>
> Once they're setup, you don't need video cards
> or keyboards
> or mice
>
> But then, in the wonderful world of windows, a headless machine is
> unmanagable because it can't be administered fully without access to the
> GUI. Oh, I suppose you could VNC into it, but that's incredibly wasteful
> of network bandwidth and not something you want to do when you're
> clustering.

Disk throughput which you can achieve only with lots of disks in parallel
machines.

"Andrew Halliwell" wrote in message
news:dtt6f5-s8a.ln1@ponder.sky.com...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> "Matt" wrote in message
>> news:fq2Uj.2620$Cn4.675@news02.roc.ny...
>>> alt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. Anyhow. I'll be
>>>> installing
>>>> Linux on these boxes to give them a second life.
>>>
>>> You could wire a few of them together to experiment with parallel or
>>> distributed computing: make your own toy supercomputer---running Linux,
>>> of
>>> course, not Windows.
>>
>> Why not use VMWare (or something like VirtualBox) to create this toy
>> supercomputer? Why waste all this extra energy for nothing? (x-many
>> power
>> supplies, x-many video cards, etc.)
>
> Once they're setup, you don't need video cards
> or keyboards or mice

I didn't mention anything about keyboards or mice. That's your strawman.

Fine.. run headless without video cards. Each computer still needs it's own
power-supply, cooling fans, disk-drive(s), motherboard, chip-set
(northbridge, southbridge, etc), memory controller, PCI bus, etc. Not
exactly efficient.


> But then, in the wonderful world of windows, a headless machine is
> unmanagable because it can't be administered fully without access to the
> GUI.

Oh really. Since you're pretending to actually know something about this do
tell me exactly what can't be managed in Windows via scripting or the
command line that you can manage in linux. (This is the part where you
slink away.)


> Oh, I suppose you could VNC into it, but that's incredibly wasteful of
> network bandwidth and not something you want to do when you're
> clustering.

Or you could just telnet into the Windows box and do it from the command
line.

> Linux doesn't need a gui, therefore, it doesn't need direct user access
> at
> all. Anything that needs to be done can be done from the control node of
> the
> cluster. via telnet or ssh.

So it's just like Windows in that regard.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Micoshaft Fraudster Ezekiel wrote on behalf of half wits from Micoshaft
Corporation:


> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the curb
> so that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global warming.

ARE ALL WINDUMMIES THIS IDIOTIC?

The reason why it got there is because of micoshaft products wasting
so many CPU cycles that users are forced to upgrade.
Switching to Linux helps but I see that since you are a WINDUMMY,
you are forcing yourself to do anything to but recommend Linux.

May be you should call Balmer and tell him to put shoe polish on his shiny
head to prevent reflecting sunlight back into the stratosphere.

TIA

"The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in message
news:2cs6f5-qc5.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut
>
> wrote
> on Tue, 6 May 2008 16:18:24 -0400
> :
>> * alt peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
>>> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
>>> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff
>>> they
>>> can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
>>> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
>>> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what
>>> is
>>> left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
>>>
>>> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday
>>> (there
>>> were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3 are all
>>> P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron D 3GHz.
>>> I've tested 3 of these boards already.
>>
>> You dumpster diver you!
>
> Indeed. I'll admit I hope for no ill effects such as
> inadvertantly seeing someone's data.
>
>>
>>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
>>> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
>>> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that
>>> I
>>> need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss
>>> such
>>> useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and all I
>>> wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
>>>
>>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
>>> life.
>>
>>
>> Four machines saved from Windows.
>>
>> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Pedant point: they were not saved from Windows.
> They probably ran Windows prior to discard. ;-)
>
> Still not a bad thing, considering the acquisition price of
> said hardware, and they now have a second life as usable
> machinery, as opposed to heading for the recycling bin --
> or, worse, the trash heap (which in some locales is illegal
> because of, among other things, heavy metal toxins).
>
> I'll admit to some curiosity as to which is best, though,
> from a cost standpoint (costs including of course such
> things as environmental damage, power consumption, and
> OS/app replacement):
>
> [1] installing Linux on "outdated" machines.
> [2] keeping "outdated" machines on older copies of Windows.
> [3] recycling machines and purchasing new ones with Windows.
>
> If one wants to get really silly (and is in a business
> environment), one can include additional capabilities:
>
> [4] installing Linux on "outdated" machines, and using ssh to
> connect to a central server which does all the heavy lifting,
> with the machines displaying the results (ssh -X[Y]).
> [5] installing Linux on "outdated" machines, and using rdesktop
> to connect to a central server.
> [6] recycling machines and purchasing new ones with Windows,
> using remote desktop to connect to a central server.

Since "virtualization" is all the rage lately it would seem to be the
winner. It's more cost effective to have a huge honkin box with lots of
power than to manage dozens of individual machines.

For servers at least.


> --
> #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
> Useless C++ Programming Idea #992398129:
> void f(unsigned u) { if(u < 0) ... }
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Ezekiel wrote:
> Oh really. Since you're pretending to actually know something about this do
> tell me exactly what can't be managed in Windows via scripting or the
> command line that you can manage in linux. (This is the part where you
> slink away.)

As you claim to be the windows expert here, why don't you tell me?
Can you install any software without going through the wizard crap?
Can you edit config files in all those windows programs without touching a
GUI? all the linux ones are ASCII text (sometimes XML, sometimes flat text
files) and usually very easily edited in textmode consoles.

What about programs that store their settings in the infamous registry?
Can you modify their settings without touching a GUI?
Is there even a textmode program that can safely edit the registry?

More to the point, can you turn OFF the GUI?
On a headless box, it is a complete and utter waste of resources better used
in the actual cluster. So, why do you need a GUI when you don't even have a
video card to show it?

--
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |

"Andrew Halliwell" wrote in message
news:fs57f5-s8a.ln1@ponder.sky.com...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>> Oh really. Since you're pretending to actually know something about this
>> do
>> tell me exactly what can't be managed in Windows via scripting or the
>> command line that you can manage in linux. (This is the part where you
>> slink away.)

Congrats on not slinking away. So let's see what you got.

> As you claim to be the windows expert here, why don't you tell me?

I'm not an expert in anything. But I'm pretty decent in a lot of things.
Including Unix.

> Can you install any software without going through the wizard crap?
Sure. Most software (especially true for "enterprise" type software) has a
way of automatically installing without a GUI. This is how corporations
install software on 1000's of desktops at a time. They don't actually go to
each desktop and clickity-click through the install. It's all scripted and
automated.

> Can you edit config files in all those windows
> programs without touching a GUI?
> all the linux ones are ASCII text (sometimes XML, sometimes flat text
> files) and usually very easily edited in textmode consoles.

There are definitely text-mode editors for Windows. vi and emacs for
example. The one that ships with Windows is called "edit" but it's not that
great. But it works for simple things.



> What about programs that store their settings in the infamous registry?
No problem there either. You can read and/or write the registry from the
command line. Using the "console" (CLI) you can even treat the registry
like a database. For example, we have scripts that run each day that
effectively do a "SELECT" query against the registry on each server to
return all of the events where "severity > x" and the event time is between
"now" and 24 hours ago. Since it's trivial to connect to the registry on a
remote-machine we don't even have to run the script on each system. One
machine can query all of them and aggregate the data.


> Can you modify their settings without touching a GUI?
> Is there even a textmode program that can safely edit the registry?

Yes and yes. It's not an "editor" the same way you'd edit a text file. It's
more like a CLI interface to a database (think 'sqlplus' on Oracle). You
can also read/write/create any arbitrary key but it's not normally used
that way. At least by us.


> More to the point, can you turn OFF the GUI?
Good question. To be honest... I'm not really sure. We have racks of NT
machines but they are all the 1U form factor and have built-in video. They
run through a KVM switch so we can switch to them if we had to. I suspect
that with the newer versions you can turn of the GUI but I'm really not
sure.

> On a headless box, it is a complete and utter waste of resources better
> used
> in the actual cluster. So, why do you need a GUI when you don't even have
> a
> video card to show it?

I doubt it's as bad as you suspect. For starters no GUI apps are running.
It's likely to just be sitting there at the login screen. And since the GUI
isn't doing anything all of the code is paged-out so it's not really taking
any memory or CPU resources. Then again... there may be a way to turn of
the GUI. It's something that I should probably check on some day.


> --
> | spike1@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a
> |
> | | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8
> bit |
> | Andrew Halliwell BSc | operating system originally coded for a 4
> bit |
> | in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company,
> that|
> | Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition.
> |


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 7 May 2008 00:23:27 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:

> Ezekiel wrote:
>> Oh really. Since you're pretending to actually know something about this do
>> tell me exactly what can't be managed in Windows via scripting or the
>> command line that you can manage in linux. (This is the part where you
>> slink away.)
>
> As you claim to be the windows expert here, why don't you tell me?
> Can you install any software without going through the wizard crap?

Who cares?
The object is to install the program so you can *USE* the program.
The faster the better.

> Can you edit config files in all those windows programs without touching a
> GUI? all the linux ones are ASCII text (sometimes XML, sometimes flat text
> files) and usually very easily edited in textmode consoles.

Typical Linux.
Sometimes this kind of file.
Sometimes that kind of file.

Yea, that's a real benefit.

And when VI pops up as the default text editor like it does on many Linux
systems, the new user is DOA....

Score another one for Linux......

> What about programs that store their settings in the infamous registry?
> Can you modify their settings without touching a GUI?
> Is there even a textmode program that can safely edit the registry?

Why?
I've never had to modify the registry.


> More to the point, can you turn OFF the GUI?

On a desktop system why would I want to?

> On a headless box, it is a complete and utter waste of resources better used
> in the actual cluster. So, why do you need a GUI when you don't even have a
> video card to show it?

So you can export it back to the box that DOES have a video card?
So you can use the easy to use, intuitive configuration programs instead of
screwing around with some text editor.

You're a typical dinosaur Linux elitast.
You and your ilk are well on your way to extinction.

People want to USE programs, not tinker around with them.
The idea is to install and use not play with text files all day.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/