How valuable is a computer? - Linux

This is a discussion on How valuable is a computer? - Linux ; On Wed, 07 May 2008 02:15:23 +0000, alt wrote: > On Tue, 06 May 2008 16:18:24 -0400, Linonut wrote: > >> * alt peremptorily fired off this memo: >> >>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your ...

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Thread: How valuable is a computer?

  1. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    On Wed, 07 May 2008 02:15:23 +0000, alt wrote:

    > On Tue, 06 May 2008 16:18:24 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * alt peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> Apparently not very valuable. We're having our annual "put your crap to
    >>> the curb" event where everyone puts all their unused stuff on the curb
    >>> for everyone else to root through. Some people are looking for stuff
    >>> they can use, others are scrap metal dealers that sell the metals to be
    >>> recycled (not worth it for the average person to do, but it is worth it
    >>> for these guys). After so many weeks, the city comes by and takes what
    >>> is left over away to be recycled or put in the landfill.
    >>>
    >>> Well, I picked up 4 useful machines sitting on the curb yesterday
    >>> (there were 6 total). One is a small footprint P3 Celeron. The other 3
    >>> are all P4: s478 1.7GHz Celeron D; s478 3.0GHz P4 w/HT; LGA778 Celeron
    >>> D 3GHz. I've tested 3 of these boards already.

    >>
    >> You dumpster diver you!

    >
    > No dumpsters! It was on the curb! :P
    >
    >
    >>> Here's the thing. These aren't bad machines. They might be getting a
    >>> little dated, but I would never think about tossing a P4 less than
    >>> 1.5GHz. Of those machines, 2 of them has XP licenses attached (not that
    >>> I need them). I'm a little surprised that they would just up and toss
    >>> such useful equipment. I originally thought they were really old and
    >>> all I wanted was the ethernet cards out of them.
    >>>
    >>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
    >>> life.

    >>
    >>
    >> Four machines saved from Windows.
    >>
    >> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
    >>

    >>

    >
    > ha ha. way to make a sick man laugh (chest cold/flu... not sure which, but
    > I feel like death).


    Nasty. I hope you're soon feeling better. :-)

    --
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    100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
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  2. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    Matt writes:

    > alt wrote:
    >
    >>>> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the
    >>>> curb so that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global
    >>>> warming.

    >>
    >> I think reusing these machines would use less energy and have less
    >> of an environmental impact than purchasing a freshly built machine

    >
    > Hadron is blowing smoke---not at all unusual.


    Not at all. As usual you idiots snip to support your points. I said
    specifically what is his *existing* set up doing. I then went on to
    ADVOCATE Linux by saying my Piv could do all that and more on ONE
    existing machine.

    >
    > Suppose a new machine uses 50W less than a reused one, although I
    > seriously doubt that the difference is that large.
    >


    What part of "accumulation" is difficult for you to understand? He is
    going to plug in 4 "old" machines. Why?


    > A typical cost for power in the US is ten cents per kilowatt-hour:
    > http://www.ppinys.org/reports/jtf/electricprices.html


    Cost is NOT the issue as even you should be aware of.

    I can poor oil into a fish pond and the cost is minimal. The resulting
    carnage is another thing altogether.

    > So you would pay twelve cents more per day if you ran the reused
    > machine continually. That comes to $43.80 per year if you run the
    > computer 24/7. It comes to $3.65 per year if you run it two hours per
    > day.
    >
    > Many of the newer CPUs have far greater maximum power usage than ones
    > a few years old. If the user leaves the machine on and parked at a
    > CPU-hogging web page, the CPU may be maxed out, in which case the
    > newer high-power system may use _more_ power than the older one.


    Absolute and total garbage. Especially when taken into account I said
    his EXISTING system is probably not maxed out. Also take into account
    CPU frequency regulators.

    >
    > Hey, there are many people for whom a 3 GHz HT P4 will be more than
    > adequate for a few more years.


    Nice moving of the goalposts.

  3. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    On Wed, 07 May 2008 07:30:36 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * The Ghost In The Machine peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS
    >>>
    >>>> Can you edit config files in all those windows programs without
    >>>> touching a GUI?
    >>>
    >>> What do you mean? When you boot Windows you're working in a graphical
    >>> interface (the Windows shell - Explorer.exe). Near as I can tell it
    >>> uses about 17mb of memory.

    >
    > How many users does that represent on a web server?
    >
    > Not to mention the resources taken up by the driver and all of the DLLs
    > needed to support the GUI applications.
    >
    > And the potential for extra trouble due to interactions between apps and
    > video driver.
    >
    > Only a moron needs a GUI wizard to administer a server.


    Which is why M$ probably makes it with a GUI.
    Which is why the likes of DooFu$ uses (used) Windows Server 2003 as a
    desktop!
    Ergo DooFu$ is a moron.
    Q.E.D

    >>> And who - except the rare *nix dinosaur - cares about running a
    >>> computer only from the command line?

    >
    > The guy at Microsoft and InfomationWeek, that's who. Recent article:
    > (IIRC) "Feeding your inner UNIX geek", about Microsoft's Powershell, and
    > how this CLI tools can do a lot for you, and in fact is now beefed up with
    > better remote management capabilities. Mentioned is how many people took
    > to it.
    >
    >>> And having a GUI on the server hasn't stopped Windows from beating up
    >>> on Linux in the server room (sales and unit installs).

    >
    > Sales? So what? Practically everyone who has ever used Linux as free
    > software in a technical environment is running it as a server of some
    > kind.
    >
    > Unit installs? Who can count them? They're countless!
    >
    >>> You lose again, spike.


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  4. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    On Wed, 07 May 2008 11:54:03 +0000, Matt wrote:

    > alt wrote:
    >
    >>>> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the
    >>>> curb so that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global
    >>>> warming.

    >>
    >> I think reusing these machines would use less energy and have less of an
    >> environmental impact than purchasing a freshly built machine

    >
    > Hadron is blowing smoke---not at all unusual.


    Uh...*he* calls it advocacy.

    > Suppose a new machine uses 50W less than a reused one, although I
    > seriously doubt that the difference is that large.
    >
    > A typical cost for power in the US is ten cents per kilowatt-hour:
    > http://www.ppinys.org/reports/jtf/electricprices.html So you would pay
    > twelve cents more per day if you ran the reused machine continually. That
    > comes to $43.80 per year if you run the computer 24/7. It comes to $3.65
    > per year if you run it two hours per day.
    >
    > Many of the newer CPUs have far greater maximum power usage than ones a
    > few years old. If the user leaves the machine on and parked at a
    > CPU-hogging web page, the CPU may be maxed out, in which case the newer
    > high-power system may use _more_ power than the older one.
    >
    > Hey, there are many people for whom a 3 GHz HT P4 will be more than
    > adequate for a few more years.


    --
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  5. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    Hadron wrote:
    > Matt writes:
    >
    >> alt wrote:
    >>
    >>>>> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the
    >>>>> curb so that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global
    >>>>> warming.
    >>> I think reusing these machines would use less energy and have less
    >>> of an environmental impact than purchasing a freshly built machine

    >> Hadron is blowing smoke---not at all unusual.

    >
    > Not at all. As usual you idiots snip to support your points.


    Oh sorry, Zeke said that.

  6. Re: How valuable is a computer?


    "alt" wrote in message
    newsan.2008.05.07.01.57.51@lazyeyez.net...
    > On Tue, 06 May 2008 12:22:55 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >>> Wonderful. Use linux and power up 4-5 more machines you found on the
    >>> curb so that you can needlessly use energy and contribute to global
    >>> warming.

    >
    > I think reusing these machines would use less energy and have less of an
    > environmental impact than purchasing a freshly built machine that has
    > just travelled across the pacific from China to North America and has
    > then travelled by either rail or by transport truck around north america
    > to and from distribution centres to retail stores.


    Idiot. I never said that it's more efficient to buy a new machine. I never
    said anything at all about buying a new machine.

    What I said is that it's a waste of electricity/emergy to run a bunch of
    machines just because you found them on the curb. If the purpose is to "play
    around" then it's more efficient (and easier) to do that within a virtual
    machine.

    The "buying a new machine" is some goalpost that you and your fellow idiots
    created and moved.




    > And by the way, my province uses Hydro Electricity, not fossil fuel
    > generated electricity.


    Doesn't matter. Energy is energy and electricity is electricity. Hydro
    energy that you save could be used by someone else that gets their power
    from a fossil fuel source. Electricity does travel over wires you know.


    >>
    >> Ezekiel does have a point; newer hardware is (presumably!) more
    >> efficient, and is also reasonably priced. I'll admit to some curiosity
    >> as to whether one has done power price calculations.

    >
    > I can't say that I have made such calculations. I will be using these
    > systems for test, so its not like they'll be running for any length of
    > time.



    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  7. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut

    wrote
    on Wed, 7 May 2008 07:33:31 -0400
    :
    > * The Ghost In The Machine peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ezekiel
    >>>
    >>> Since "virtualization" is all the rage lately it would seem to be the
    >>> winner. It's more cost effective to have a huge honkin box with lots of
    >>> power than to manage dozens of individual machines.
    >>>
    >>> For servers at least.

    >>
    >> Exactly. And that huge honking box is able to run Windows
    >> system images, right?

    >
    > Indeed. The extra license fees are /grrrreeeeeeeeeat/ for Microsoft's
    > bottom line.
    >
    > And Zeke forgets that, once you fill up a machine, it's nice to be able
    > to add more machines to the mix.
    >
    > I hope he doesn't forget to pay up all his server licenses.


    Indeed.

    >
    >> As for virtualization -- *Unix* had it in the 80's.

    >
    > IBM had it in 1966, I noticed in an article yesterday.
    >


    Hmm...I don't go quite that far back. ;-) But I do
    know about VM/CMS, and was using VP/CSS (a derivative)
    in the late 70's (ah, youth). QEMU and UML both remind
    me of those, generally.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #992398129:
    void f(unsigned u) { if(u < 0) ... }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  8. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    DFS wrote:
    > And who - except the rare *nix dinosaur - cares about running a computer
    > only from the command line?


    Not very good at following conversations, are you doofy?
    We're talking about headless machines here.
    Specifically for use in clustering. Why do you need a GUI in such a
    situation? How do you ACCESS it in such a situation without wasting network
    bandwidth and hammering your cluster's efficiency?
    >
    >> all the linux ones are ASCII text (sometimes XML,
    >> sometimes flat text files) and usually very easily edited in textmode
    >> consoles.

    >
    > Yes, and they're scattered willy nilly all over the hard drive


    The /etc directory is now "scattered all over the hard drive willy nilly"?

    Stupid doofy... You couldn't get anymore foolish if you tried.

    > in no standard location, with no standard naming conventions, and with no
    > standard presentation format/layout.


    HAHAHAHA

    >> What about programs that store their settings in the infamous
    >> registry?

    >
    > Which is virtually every Windows program nowadays. And what's so infamous
    > about it?


    You're serious?

    >> More to the point, can you turn OFF the GUI?

    >
    > No. This is an advantage of Linux.


    Exactly. Though we seem to have a difference of opinion Jeffrey....
    (note: this is a cultural reference that'll go over your head)
    Mr Ezekial claims the GUI can be disabled in 2003 onwards.

    >> On a headless box, it is a complete and utter waste of resources
    >> better used in the actual cluster.

    >
    > Ever seen all the bull**** waste of resources installed by default on any
    > modern Linux distro,


    Hint: A cluster doesn't use a "default linux install" by any stretch of the
    imagination. All security is disabled for the nodes (apart from the access
    node), only the useful stuff is installed and only the essensials running.

    especially a KDE-based one? I went to install Sabayon
    > on VirtualBox a couple nights ago


    Why would you install KDE on a CLUSTER?
    dum dum-dum dum duuuuum...

    --
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | |
    | Andrew Halliwell BSc | "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
    | in | suck is probably the day they start making |
    | Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |

  9. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    Andrew Halliwell writes:

    > DFS wrote:
    >> And who - except the rare *nix dinosaur - cares about running a computer
    >> only from the command line?

    >
    > Not very good at following conversations, are you doofy?
    > We're talking about headless machines here.
    > Specifically for use in clustering. Why do you need a GUI in such a
    > situation? How do you ACCESS it in such a situation without wasting network
    > bandwidth and hammering your cluster's efficiency?


    headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot - look up X
    forwarding. Very little overhead when not in use. very convenient for
    running GUI admin interfaces for things like mysql.


  10. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron

    wrote
    on Wed, 07 May 2008 21:30:54 +0200
    :
    > Andrew Halliwell writes:
    >
    >> DFS wrote:
    >>> And who - except the rare *nix dinosaur - cares about running a computer
    >>> only from the command line?

    >>
    >> Not very good at following conversations, are you doofy?
    >> We're talking about headless machines here.
    >> Specifically for use in clustering. Why do you need a GUI in such a
    >> situation? How do you ACCESS it in such a situation without wasting network
    >> bandwidth and hammering your cluster's efficiency?

    >
    > headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot - look up X
    > forwarding. Very little overhead when not in use. very convenient for
    > running GUI admin interfaces for things like mysql.
    >


    To be pedantic: headless machines easily support the X
    *protocol*, but not an X *server*; the server is running
    on the machine with the monitor, somewhere else. One very
    common setup uses a command such as

    ssh -X[Y] remoteuserremotemachine

    where remotemachine usually [%] has a compiled set of
    the X client libraries (libX, libXext, libXt, libICE,
    etc.) along with sshd for this particular setup [+].
    The remote machine sees localhost:10[*], which is a
    proxy for the real server at localhost:0; ssh/sshd shuttle
    the packets back and forth in the encrypted tunnel (see
    /usr/include/X11/Xproto.h for the details, along with
    Volume 0 of the O'Reilly Manuals).

    Of course there is the Xvfb server, which one can run
    anywhere (memory permitting); it doesn't display much,
    though. (It is possible to pull the data from the virtual
    screen, represented as a picture. User-provided events are
    difficult, though one can try synthetic event injection
    using XSendEvent() if the application is sufficiently
    naive; there might be other extensions available which
    I'd have to dig for.)

    Other protocols can also be used, such as VNC, to implement
    the display of a GUI. One might even use HTML/HTTP to
    implement a GUI; the result is, of course, a webserver,
    requiring a web browser to display the GUI (pages).
    (DAV, AJP, SOAP, Java's RMI, Java's JNDI, Java applets,
    XML, and AJAX are optional extras.)

    These methods vary in efficiency, responsiveness, security,
    and ease of implementation.

    [%] I've worked on projects where the client writes packets
    using ConnectionNumber(dpy) directly. Such code is of course
    rather fragile.

    [+] other setups are possible but may not be as secure.
    [*] on most machines, localhost is 127.0.0.1 or ::1, and is
    bound to a different interface ('lo') than 'remotemachine'
    ('eth*').

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #40490127:
    for(; ;
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  11. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    Hadron wrote:
    > headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot


    Awwww
    Isn't it sweet?
    Hadron can't read either.
    WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEADLESS CLUSTER NODES!
    You don't NEED or even WANT any form of GUI in one of those.
    Now who's the blithering idiot?

    --
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
    | Andrew Halliwell BSc | I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
    | in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
    | Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |

  12. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    On Wed, 07 May 2008 13:00:17 +0100, William Poaster wrote:

    >>>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
    >>>> life.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Four machines saved from Windows.
    >>>
    >>> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
    >>>

    >>>

    >>
    >> ha ha. way to make a sick man laugh (chest cold/flu... not sure which,
    >> but I feel like death).

    >
    > Nasty. I hope you're soon feeling better. :-)


    Not really. this is the 2nd day I've left the office early. Today I left
    about 11am. I was feeling really rough (and still am). I figure I'll be
    good by the weekend.

  13. Re: How valuable is a computer?


    "alt" wrote in message
    newsan.2008.05.07.21.07.57@lazyeyez.net...
    > On Wed, 07 May 2008 13:00:17 +0100, William Poaster wrote:
    >
    >>>>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
    >>>>> life.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Four machines saved from Windows.
    >>>>
    >>>> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
    >>>>

    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> ha ha. way to make a sick man laugh (chest cold/flu... not sure which,
    >>> but I feel like death).

    >>
    >> Nasty. I hope you're soon feeling better. :-)

    >
    > Not really. this is the 2nd day I've left the office early. Today I left
    > about 11am. I was feeling really rough (and still am). I figure I'll be
    > good by the weekend.


    You probably got some nasty disease while dumpster-diving for your
    computers.



    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  14. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    Andrew Halliwell writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot

    >
    > Awwww
    > Isn't it sweet?
    > Hadron can't read either.
    > WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEADLESS CLUSTER NODES!
    > You don't NEED or even WANT any form of GUI in one of those.
    > Now who's the blithering idiot?


    Poor Degree Boy. Now he's telling people what they want and need! This
    degree you earned show made you omnipotent!

  15. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    "Ezekiel" writes:

    > "alt" wrote in message
    > newsan.2008.05.07.21.07.57@lazyeyez.net...
    >> On Wed, 07 May 2008 13:00:17 +0100, William Poaster wrote:
    >>
    >>>>>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
    >>>>>> life.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Four machines saved from Windows.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
    >>>>>

    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> ha ha. way to make a sick man laugh (chest cold/flu... not sure which,
    >>>> but I feel like death).
    >>>
    >>> Nasty. I hope you're soon feeling better. :-)

    >>
    >> Not really. this is the 2nd day I've left the office early. Today I left
    >> about 11am. I was feeling really rough (and still am). I figure I'll be
    >> good by the weekend.

    >
    > You probably got some nasty disease while dumpster-diving for your
    > computers.
    >
    >
    >
    > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


    The average keyboard has more germs than the average public toilet
    apparently.

  16. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    On 2008-05-07, Hadron wrote:
    > Andrew Halliwell writes:
    >
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot

    >>
    >> Awwww
    >> Isn't it sweet?
    >> Hadron can't read either.
    >> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEADLESS CLUSTER NODES!
    >> You don't NEED or even WANT any form of GUI in one of those.
    >> Now who's the blithering idiot?

    >
    > Poor Degree Boy. Now he's telling people what they want and need! This
    > degree you earned show made you omnipotent!


    ....well.

    You can WASTE your network bandwidth on pushing pictures around
    or you can get ACTUAL REAL WORK DONE. It doesn't take a rocket
    scientist or a gypsy to figure out which one of these options
    that pragmatic business minded types would prefer.

    ....although keep in mind that many cluster architectures call
    for a dedicated interconnect network to begin with. So you
    won't necessarily bog down the cluster by engaging in
    unnecessary UI bloat.

    --

    iTunes is not progressive. It's a throwback. |||
    / | \

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  17. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    On 2008-05-07, Hadron wrote:
    > "Ezekiel" writes:
    >
    >> "alt" wrote in message
    >> newsan.2008.05.07.21.07.57@lazyeyez.net...
    >>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 13:00:17 +0100, William Poaster wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>>>> Anyhow. I'll be installing Linux on these boxes to give them a second
    >>>>>>> life.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Four machines saved from Windows.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Did I ever tell you you're my hero?
    >>>>>>

    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ha ha. way to make a sick man laugh (chest cold/flu... not sure which,
    >>>>> but I feel like death).
    >>>>
    >>>> Nasty. I hope you're soon feeling better. :-)
    >>>
    >>> Not really. this is the 2nd day I've left the office early. Today I left
    >>> about 11am. I was feeling really rough (and still am). I figure I'll be
    >>> good by the weekend.

    >>
    >> You probably got some nasty disease while dumpster-diving for your
    >> computers.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

    >
    > The average keyboard has more germs than the average public toilet
    > apparently.


    Toilets tend to get cleaned regularly.

    Dunno what would happen to my keyboard if I sprayed scrubbing
    bubbles on it. Not sure I want to find out...

    --

    iTunes is not progressive. It's a throwback. |||
    / | \

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    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  18. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    JEDIDIAH writes:

    > On 2008-05-07, Hadron wrote:
    >> Andrew Halliwell writes:
    >>
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>> headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot
    >>>
    >>> Awwww
    >>> Isn't it sweet?
    >>> Hadron can't read either.
    >>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEADLESS CLUSTER NODES!
    >>> You don't NEED or even WANT any form of GUI in one of those.
    >>> Now who's the blithering idiot?

    >>
    >> Poor Degree Boy. Now he's telling people what they want and need! This
    >> degree you earned show made you omnipotent!

    >
    > ...well.
    >
    > You can WASTE your network bandwidth on pushing pictures around
    > or you can get ACTUAL REAL WORK DONE. It doesn't take a rocket


    For goodness sake - if its an admin task and you bother to use
    x-forwarding for a few minutes its not going to kill the system you
    know.

    Sheesh.


    > scientist or a gypsy to figure out which one of these options
    > that pragmatic business minded types would prefer.
    >
    > ...although keep in mind that many cluster architectures call
    > for a dedicated interconnect network to begin with. So you
    > won't necessarily bog down the cluster by engaging in
    > unnecessary UI bloat.


    Make up your mind :-;

    --
    Whoever asked if the debian organization was dead isn't reading
    debian-devel. 66 messages in one day, and it's not over. I find it
    difficult to keep up.
    -- Bruce Perens

  19. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron

    wrote
    on Thu, 08 May 2008 00:39:01 +0200
    :
    > JEDIDIAH writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-05-07, Hadron wrote:
    >>> Andrew Halliwell writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>> headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot
    >>>>
    >>>> Awwww
    >>>> Isn't it sweet?
    >>>> Hadron can't read either.
    >>>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEADLESS CLUSTER NODES!
    >>>> You don't NEED or even WANT any form of GUI in one of those.
    >>>> Now who's the blithering idiot?
    >>>
    >>> Poor Degree Boy. Now he's telling people what they want and need! This
    >>> degree you earned show made you omnipotent!

    >>
    >> ...well.
    >>
    >> You can WASTE your network bandwidth on pushing pictures around
    >> or you can get ACTUAL REAL WORK DONE. It doesn't take a rocket

    >
    > For goodness sake - if its an admin task and you bother to use
    > x-forwarding for a few minutes its not going to kill the system you
    > know.
    >
    > Sheesh.


    Such would require installation of the X libraries on
    the system, as well as the requisite GUI control system.
    A minor matter, easily done if privileges permit.

    >
    >
    >> scientist or a gypsy to figure out which one of these options
    >> that pragmatic business minded types would prefer.
    >>
    >> ...although keep in mind that many cluster architectures call
    >> for a dedicated interconnect network to begin with. So you
    >> won't necessarily bog down the cluster by engaging in
    >> unnecessary UI bloat.

    >
    > Make up your mind :-;
    >


    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. Because it's not the desktop that's
    important, it's the ability to DO something
    with it.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  20. Re: How valuable is a computer?

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >
    > wrote
    > on Thu, 08 May 2008 00:39:01 +0200
    > :
    >> JEDIDIAH writes:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-05-07, Hadron wrote:
    >>>> Andrew Halliwell writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>> headless machines can also support X you blithering idiot
    >>>>> Awwww
    >>>>> Isn't it sweet?
    >>>>> Hadron can't read either.
    >>>>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEADLESS CLUSTER NODES!
    >>>>> You don't NEED or even WANT any form of GUI in one of those.
    >>>>> Now who's the blithering idiot?
    >>>> Poor Degree Boy. Now he's telling people what they want and need! This
    >>>> degree you earned show made you omnipotent!
    >>> ...well.
    >>>
    >>> You can WASTE your network bandwidth on pushing pictures around
    >>> or you can get ACTUAL REAL WORK DONE. It doesn't take a rocket

    >> For goodness sake - if its an admin task and you bother to use
    >> x-forwarding for a few minutes its not going to kill the system you
    >> know.
    >>
    >> Sheesh.

    >
    > Such would require installation of the X libraries on
    > the system, as well as the requisite GUI control system.
    > A minor matter, easily done if privileges permit.



    So maybe there isn't much computational or bandwidth cost in having GUI
    access to each headless node. But since the several nodes are
    equivalent, or (at least) there is some regular structure among the
    nodes, are you going to want to connect to each node individually to
    carry out the same or similar task on each one? No, you would want to
    send some kind of script or sequence of commands to each one. So you
    don't _need_ GUI access to the individual nodes.


    >>> scientist or a gypsy to figure out which one of these options
    >>> that pragmatic business minded types would prefer.
    >>>
    >>> ...although keep in mind that many cluster architectures call
    >>> for a dedicated interconnect network to begin with. So you
    >>> won't necessarily bog down the cluster by engaging in
    >>> unnecessary UI bloat.

    >> Make up your mind :-;



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