[Troll] Windows -- not even second best - Linux

This is a discussion on [Troll] Windows -- not even second best - Linux ; Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart) http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html Traits: * Nym shifting (see below) * Self confessed thief and proud of it * Homophobic * Racist * Habitual liar * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux ...

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Thread: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

  1. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

  2. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    * Gregory Shearman peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On 2008-05-06, Linonut wrote:
    >> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> The problem with that is that most people don't like their cell phone
    >>> interfaces. Associating Linux with cell phone interfaces is more likely
    >>> to discourage desktop migration than encourage it.

    >>
    >> I actually kind of agree with you here.
    >>
    >> I strongly dislike cell phones. Almost everything about 'em.
    >> The clumsiest, most dangerous interfaces (while driving).
    >>
    >> And they put buttons on the outside of them, so the buttons get pushed
    >> while the phone is in your pocket.

    >
    > I've got one of the cheapest mobile phones (I refuse to call a mobile a
    > "cell phone". We don't say that around here.) and it has buttons on the
    > outside that have to be big because I have BIG hands. All I do is keep
    > the phone with the keypad lock on. It doesn't interfere in any way with
    > receiving calls and the thing is safe bouncing around.


    I wonder if my phone (actually, was my daughter's phone) has such a
    lock.

    She was wandering around one day asking "Where is my cell phone?" and I
    said "In your cell." Her friend laughed, she didn't.

    --
    Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.
    -- Bill Gates

  3. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    * Patricia peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)
    >
    > http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    > http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html


    Y'know what's freaky? I actually remember all of these flatfish nyms.

    --
    "Microsoft has had competitors in the past. It's a good thing we have
    museums to document this stuff."
    -- Bill Gates, in a talk at the Computer History Museum
    in Mountain View, Calif.

  4. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    On 2008-05-06, Linonut claimed:

    > I strongly dislike cell phones. Almost everything about 'em.
    > The clumsiest, most dangerous interfaces (while driving).
    >
    > And they put buttons on the outside of them, so the buttons get pushed
    > while the phone is in your pocket.


    I got a Treo and I like it, except that it keeps calling my wife, when
    using only Keyguard, or 9-1-1, when using only Security (because it has
    the means to allow emergency calling without a password) if I keep it
    on my side. My old Motorola used to call my wife constantly (actually,
    it called the last number accessed, and I always made sure it was my
    wife to avoid trouble), and it was a flip-phone. Using one or the other
    mechanism to stop all of that isn't sufficient.

    I ended up adding another program to make unlocking Keyguard a two-
    stage process, and had to also use Security so I have to use a password
    to unlock it.

    So far it hasn't made any unwanted calls in the last few days (that I
    know about). So maybe it's going to work.

    Just to be safe I have a vehciluar bluetooth gizmo, and I try to always
    remember to remove the phone from the case on my side before putting on
    the seat belt.

    On the up side, it's easy to use while driving, even without the
    bluetooth, as long as I don't have to unlock it. I don't call anybody
    when I'm behind the wheel, so that's never a problem. I can answer it
    without keystrokes or passwords from the bluetooth. Plus I have all of
    the PDA functions I need, and then some.

    --
    Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates.

  5. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, JEDIDIAH

    wrote
    on Tue, 6 May 2008 17:01:44 -0500
    :
    > On 2008-05-06, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Erik Funkenbusch
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Tue, 6 May 2008 11:14:47 -0400
    >><18tjkz06fpj6w.dlg@funkenbusch.com>:
    >>> On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:12:23 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.linux.com/feature/133149
    >>>>
    >>>> Looking further ahead, Bray predicts a move away from Microsoft
    >>>> operating systems. "The fact is that the vast majority of office
    >>>> desktops are using Windows, the third-best platform," he says. "You
    >>>> can argue about the relative merits of modern Linuxes like Ubuntu and
    >>>> the Mac, but they are clearly better than Windows in terms of
    >>>> robustness, cost, performance, and a whole bunch of other things. For
    >>>> the long term, can the mainstream of business continue to ignore the
    >>>> fact that there's a better alternative than what they're running? If
    >>>> that logjam breaks, that's going to be a real change."`
    >>>
    >>> People have been saying that for 20 years. It hasn't happened yet.

    >>
    >> It never will; Microsoft is not the third-best, but the
    >> *first*-best, because of one thing: marketing.
    >>
    >> Think about it. The best car[*] one can have would
    >> be either a tank (durability), a shuttle crawler (load
    >> capacity), a race car (speed), an ATV (maneuverability),
    >> or a bicycle (efficiency). Instead, we all compromise,
    >> usually ending up with something that has four wheels,
    >> a steering column, a gas and brake pedal, and a fuel
    >> storage facility that might explode (under exactly the
    >> right conditions; gasoline, fortunately, is very difficult
    >> to ignite unless the air-fuel mixture is exactly right).
    >>
    >> In Microsoft's case, they have a good set of compromises,
    >> bolstered further by marketing. The Microsoft Windows

    >
    > Ah... no.
    >
    > Microsoft took advantage of the fact that every different
    > make of car needs it's own brand of gasoline to go with it.
    >
    > Imagine a gas station with pumps for every brand of car.


    At the time, yes. Microsoft commoditized the market, yes.
    They then leveraged it -- DOS to Win3.1, Win3.1 to Win95,
    Win95 to Win98 to WinMe (ha!) to WinXP, and finally the
    latest and (FSVO) greatest, Windows Vista.

    And IBM was left somewhere between the bedroom and the altar... :-/

    >
    > Most gas station owners would go insane. So they would instead
    > tend to only support the most common cars.


    Further exacerbated by the requirement that Microsoft
    gets paid for every fillup, regardless of whether they
    use regular Microsoft, or premium Something Else(tm).

    But of course Microsoft was very nice to the filling stations;
    they gave them a slight discount. Wasn't that lovely? :-)

    > Then eventually they
    > would only support only one brand of car.


    Or one brand type. The PCs got a little weird, since IBM
    did a foolish thing in publishing the entire BIOS listing.

    (Wish I still had that.)

    >
    > This is what happened with PC's, nevermind non-PCs.


    Non-PCs dropped out of the equation because PCs underpriced them,
    methinks.

    >
    > [deletia]
    >
    > Microsoft got in bed with the right partner and got themselves
    > enough "street cred" to nullify pretty much any other interesting
    > criteria.
    >


    Ah, it could have been so different. The 68000 was
    a better processor. The Amiga was a better machine.
    But oh well.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    /dev/signature: No such file or directory
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  6. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb

    wrote
    on Tue, 6 May 2008 18:26:24 -0400
    <121l2f3fdf9ob$.519tyf5n6m7p$.dlg@40tude.net>:
    > On Tue, 6 May 2008 17:17:26 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >
    >> On 2008-05-06, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>> In article <1gb105wu2bwiq.xl3ond9yf3n5.dlg@40tude.net>,
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>> If anything, people are moving toward the Mac because of the total seemless
    >>>> experience between the computer and their multimedia devices.
    >>>> Multimedia is the future, and in a big way and the Mac has this down to a
    >>>> science.

    >>
    >> ...as long as you don't have any of your own data to begin with.

    >
    > Huh?


    Color me puzzled here as well.

    >
    >>>
    >>> Related to this is iTunes on Windows. Windows users buy iPods, and use
    >>> iTunes to manage those iPods, and notice that the iTunes/iPod experience
    >>> is a lot better than the experience they had with a non-iPod and the
    >>> crappy software that was bundled with it.

    >>
    >> ...that's a problem with a part of the Windows/MacOS mentality.
    >>
    >> Something like a media player shouldn't need any bundled software.

    >
    > You don't have a clue.
    > People want to USE their players not play with mount commands, permissions,
    > umount or the clusterfsck called automount.
    >
    > They want to plug them in, sync the data and use them.


    Absolutely correct.

    >
    > Linux need not apply.


    Not quite. Of course, one has to set it up via something
    a la supermount (or hope that the distro has set up things
    for them), but workarounds do exist.

    >
    >>>
    >>> This gives Mac advocates a great opening. Just tell the Windows user
    >>> that they can have that experience with most of their apps and the whole
    >>> computer, by switching to Mac.
    >>>
    >>> The Linux advocate has a much harder time. What's he gonna do? Point
    >>> to a person's cell phone, and tell them it runs Linux, and suggest they
    >>> switch from Windows, to get that Linux experience on the desktop?

    >>
    >> Give them a win32 copy of Firefox or OpenOffice.

    >
    > And listen as they beg for iTunes back.


    ITYM "Zune".

    >
    >
    >
    >> For a person to even get their toe in the water with Apple they
    >> have to buy something. That's not a problem with Linux. The user can
    >> try out everything with zero cost. They can also use a subset of the
    >> available bits to make their Windows experience less miserable without
    >> completely defecting.

    >
    > Sure, and 0.6 percent of desktop users do in fact end up sticking with
    > Linux.


    And how do we know this?

    > The rest go running back to whatever they were using before they had a


    ITYM "Windows".

    > lapse of sanity and decided to try out Linux.
    >
    > You really need to get a clue how today's consumer operates and what she
    > expects.


    S/he expects things to work. Windows works straight out of the box.
    (At least until the infections set in later.) Linux almost works,
    but requires installation and tweaking.

    Three guesses which one a user generally ignorant of computers
    and/or computer software prefers.

    >
    > Most of the people writing Linux distributions, with few exceptions,
    > haven't a clue which is why Linux's desktop market share is a dismal 0.6
    > percent despite Linux being free.
    >


    Perhaps you'd care to try your hand at writing one?

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    /dev/signature: No such file or directory
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  7. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
    > * Patricia peremptorily fired off this memo:


    >> Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)
    >>
    >> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    >> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    >
    > Y'know what's freaky? I actually remember all of these flatfish
    > nyms.


    So does my leafnode filter (currently 347 Flatty nyms, and that's the
    *pruned* version). PK's list probably runs into the thousands.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    00:57:54 up 137 days, 21:33, 6 users, load average: 0.04, 0.14, 0.13

  8. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > "MothMan" (I've seen him on the Web, not on TV)


    Ummmmm, that wasn't Mothman, I don't think. The real mothman hails from the
    upper end of the state I call home for the time being:

    http://www.essortment.com/all/mothmancreature_rlcw.htm
    --
    Regards,
    [tv]

    ....Be reasonable......do it my way.

    Owner/Proprietor, Cheesus Crust Pizza Company
    Good to the last supper

  9. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer wrote on Wed, 07
    > May 2008 00:49:52 +0100 <1e77f5-n7t.ln1@sky.matrix>:


    > I'll admit to some curiosity as to exactly whom Microsoft bribed,
    > though.


    Here's one:

    Mba-Uzoukwu wrote that Microsoft is still negotiating an agreement that
    would give TSC US$400,000 (£190,323) for marketing activities around the
    Classmate PCs when those computers are converted to Windows.
    http://www.computerworlduk.com/manag...wsid=6124&pn=2

    And another:

    Microsoft Sweden was later found to have offered extra "marketing
    contributions" to its business partners to encourage them to vote for
    OOXML, according to e-mails seen by Computer Sweden.
    http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/...invalid_1.html

    And yet another:

    According to at least six bloggers, Microsoft has been sending out free
    top-of-the-line laptops pre-loaded with Vista as a 'no strings attached
    gifts'. This 'reward' for their hard work on covering tech in general is
    coincidentally right before the launch of Vista to consumers. To be
    clear, these weren't loans, they were gifts, and they were
    top-of-the-line Acer Ferrari laptops. Microsoft blogger Long Zheng broke
    the silence over the source of the freebies.
    http://slashdot.org/articles/06/12/27/1423234.shtml

    How about another?:

    A ROW IS BREWING between a bunch of bloggers who took cash from
    Microsoft marketing outfit and stodgy old media types who take their
    bribes in less obvious ways.

    The row started on Friday when the ValleyWag revealed how some "star
    boggers" had taken some cash from Federated Media to repeat some
    Microsoft sloganeering in copy on their websites.

    Michael Arrington tells all how his Techcrunch site became
    "people-ready". Gigaom's Om Malik talks about when a business becomes
    "people ready". Others named and shamed include Paul Kedrosky and Matt
    Marshall of Venture Beat, as well as Fred Wilson, the blogger-investor.
    Ads with the Volish motto appear on the blogger's site.
    http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...bery-kerfuffle

    Oh go on, have another one:

    Mercury News writers Mike Antonucci and Dean Takahashi demo and review
    the new Halo 3, Microsoft’s much anticipated new gaming title. Nooch
    calls it “one of the biggest days in videogame history.” And the duo
    discuss the approximately $800 press kit that showed up in the mail for
    Dean - a giant, personalized duffel bag filled with Halo 3 schwag.
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/200...h_demo_halo_3/

    Last one ... promise, although I think this one counts more as
    extortion, than bribery. Well it's the opposite side of the same coin:

    Microsoft sharpshooter Joachim Kempin, who was convicted of illegally
    shooting antelope in Montana in 1998, has been turning his guns on a
    more familiar target: Microsoft's own OEM customers.

    The States' remedy hearing opened in DC yesterday, and States attorney
    Steven Kuney produced a devastating memo from Kempin, then in charge of
    Microsoft's OEM business, written after Judge Jackson had ordered his
    break-up of the company. Kempin raises the possibility of threatening
    Dell and other PC builders which promote Linux.

    "I'm thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with
    anti-Linux. ... they should do a delicate dance," Kempin wrote to
    Ballmer, in what is sure to be a memorable addition to the phrases
    ("knife the baby", "cut off the air supply") with which Microsoft
    enriched the English language in the first trial. Unlike those two, this
    is not contested.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03..._linux_states/

    This is not an exhaustive list.

    Bizniz® as usual for the Redmond gangsters.

    >> If there is such a thing as pure evil, surely it is defined as
    >> those who do wrong but lack any comprehension of their own
    >> immorality, or at least don't care about the consequences. That
    >> pretty much sums up Microsoft's attitude, and that of those who
    >> worship them.

    >
    > *shrug*


    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    04:33:31 up 138 days, 1:09, 6 users, load average: 0.16, 0.29, 0.55

  10. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Tattoo Vampire

    wrote
    on Tue, 6 May 2008 23:05:59 -0400
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> "MothMan" (I've seen him on the Web, not on TV)

    >
    > Ummmmm, that wasn't Mothman, I don't think. The real mothman hails from the
    > upper end of the state I call home for the time being:
    >
    > http://www.essortment.com/all/mothmancreature_rlcw.htm


    And here I thought he might be this guy's sidekick:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tick

    :-)

    But the above one is arguably more interesting.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #1123133:
    void f(FILE * fptr, char *p) { fgets(p, sizeof(p), fptr); }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  11. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Homer wrote:

    >> I'll admit to some curiosity as to exactly whom Microsoft bribed,
    >> though.


    Let's see: bloggers accept free MS gifts and that's "bribery" and it means
    the bloggers are corrupt and are then unable to write an independent review,
    but Linux lusers accept free OSS software practically all the time but
    remain pure as snow.

    Suuurrrree...

    Fact is, you shameless Linux/OSS hypocrites - not just on cola but all over
    the 'Net - deliver loads and loads of corrupt, positive, welfare reviews of
    Linux, despite its proven crappiness. The slightest glitch in Windows and
    you're screeching to holy hell, but Linux morons delude themselves about the
    quality of Linux and post ridiculous stuff like this:

    "PCLinux is brilliant and definitly one of if not the top Linux distro, but
    only when its actually working."
    http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?o...&topic=39498.0


    "I have loaded and reloaded and reloaded. Mepis works GREAT! However, it
    freezes every morning when I get back on it."
    http://mepislovers.org/forums/showth...hlight=freezes


    "Never give up on openSUSE!!!!!!!!! It is frustrating, but gets better when
    the system actually works."
    http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=41708&hl=




  12. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Homer wrote:

    >Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
    >> * Patricia peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)
    >>>
    >>> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    >>> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    >>
    >> Y'know what's freaky? I actually remember all of these flatfish
    >> nyms.

    >
    >So does my leafnode filter (currently 347 Flatty nyms, and that's the
    >*pruned* version). PK's list probably runs into the thousands.


    I had quite a list going, until I blew-it out about a year ago.
    Google "my bozo bin", where I posted the list, if you're interested.


  13. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    On Wed, 7 May 2008 00:27:50 -0400, DFS wrote:

    > Homer wrote:
    >
    >>> I'll admit to some curiosity as to exactly whom Microsoft bribed,
    >>> though.

    >
    > Let's see: bloggers accept free MS gifts and that's "bribery" and it means
    > the bloggers are corrupt and are then unable to write an independent review,
    > but Linux lusers accept free OSS software practically all the time but
    > remain pure as snow.
    >
    > Suuurrrree...
    >
    > Fact is, you shameless Linux/OSS hypocrites - not just on cola but all over
    > the 'Net - deliver loads and loads of corrupt, positive, welfare reviews of
    > Linux, despite its proven crappiness. The slightest glitch in Windows and
    > you're screeching to holy hell, but Linux morons delude themselves about the
    > quality of Linux and post ridiculous stuff like this:
    >
    > "PCLinux is brilliant and definitly one of if not the top Linux distro, but
    > only when its actually working."
    > http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.php?o...&topic=39498.0
    >
    >
    > "I have loaded and reloaded and reloaded. Mepis works GREAT! However, it
    > freezes every morning when I get back on it."
    > http://mepislovers.org/forums/showth...hlight=freezes
    >
    >
    > "Never give up on openSUSE!!!!!!!!! It is frustrating, but gets better when
    > the system actually works."
    > http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=41708&hl=


    The word about these Linux cultists is getting around to the various
    respectable journals so expect to see some press about it in the near
    future.

    What is happening is that the Linux loons typical "works for me" couple
    with their "Windows ate my first born" tactics are backfiring on them.

    People are trying Linux, having massive problems and then taking to the
    net, assuming they can even get Linux to connect to the net that is because
    network cards seem to give Linux fits, where they will start reading the
    lies and arrogance and will realize that "hey Windows works for me" and
    "wow, a lot of people have problems with Linux".

    IOW they figure out that they have been lied to and they become even more
    anti Linux.

    Notice the tone of the people in of some of the links you are posting.
    These people are upset at wasting weeks trying to get Linux to half work.

    So the more idiots like kelsey and Roy and Kent and [homer] the paranoid
    mental case keep posting their lies, the more people see them and the more
    people get pissed at Linux.

    Word spreads very fast.
    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  14. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer

    wrote
    on Wed, 07 May 2008 04:34:06 +0100
    :
    > Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer wrote on Wed, 07
    >> May 2008 00:49:52 +0100 <1e77f5-n7t.ln1@sky.matrix>:

    >
    >> I'll admit to some curiosity as to exactly whom Microsoft bribed,
    >> though.

    >
    > Here's one:


    [non-exhaustive list snipped]

    Ick. That's worse than I expected.

    >
    > Bizniz as usual for the Redmond gangsters.


    Worrisome, when bribery, corruption, and deals one can't
    refuse can be shuffled under the rug as "business as usual"
    to the ignorant majority.

    >
    >>> If there is such a thing as pure evil, surely it is defined as
    >>> those who do wrong but lack any comprehension of their own
    >>> immorality, or at least don't care about the consequences. That
    >>> pretty much sums up Microsoft's attitude, and that of those who
    >>> worship them.

    >>
    >> *shrug*

    >



    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
    Windows. The choice of a bunch of people who like very weird behavior on
    a regular basis, random crashes, and "extend, embrace, and extinguish".
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  15. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

  16. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    On 2008-05-06, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 6 May 2008 18:26:24 -0400
    ><121l2f3fdf9ob$.519tyf5n6m7p$.dlg@40tude.net>:
    >> On Tue, 6 May 2008 17:17:26 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-05-06, Tim Smith wrote:
    >>>> In article <1gb105wu2bwiq.xl3ond9yf3n5.dlg@40tude.net>,
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>> If anything, people are moving toward the Mac because of the total seemless
    >>>>> experience between the computer and their multimedia devices.
    >>>>> Multimedia is the future, and in a big way and the Mac has this down to a
    >>>>> science.
    >>>
    >>> ...as long as you don't have any of your own data to begin with.

    >>
    >> Huh?

    >
    > Color me puzzled here as well.


    What video formats and codecs does an ipod support?

    This is already a point of contention for the AppleTV.

    It takes a LONG time to convert stuff just so that a PMP
    won't choke on it. It's FAR more convenient to able to just
    drag stuff to it.

    It is simplest to do nothing.

    >
    >>
    >>>>
    >>>> Related to this is iTunes on Windows. Windows users buy iPods, and use
    >>>> iTunes to manage those iPods, and notice that the iTunes/iPod experience
    >>>> is a lot better than the experience they had with a non-iPod and the
    >>>> crappy software that was bundled with it.
    >>>
    >>> ...that's a problem with a part of the Windows/MacOS mentality.
    >>>
    >>> Something like a media player shouldn't need any bundled software.

    >>
    >> You don't have a clue.
    >> People want to USE their players not play with mount commands, permissions,
    >> umount or the clusterfsck called automount.


    Compared to the way that XP handles USB devices (PMP or otherwise),
    Linux is an absolute dream.

    >>
    >> They want to plug them in, sync the data and use them.


    Odd then that this is not how the other vendors treat media players.

    >
    > Absolutely correct.
    >
    >>
    >> Linux need not apply.

    >
    > Not quite. Of course, one has to set it up via something
    > a la supermount (or hope that the distro has set up things
    > for them), but workarounds do exist.


    Nope.

    More recent distros will do all of this automagically.

    Knowing too much in this case can be a problem because
    you find yourself not looking for the newer easier
    solutions and thus find yourself unaware of them.

    Linux can be sneaky that way.

    >
    >>
    >>>>
    >>>> This gives Mac advocates a great opening. Just tell the Windows user
    >>>> that they can have that experience with most of their apps and the whole
    >>>> computer, by switching to Mac.
    >>>>
    >>>> The Linux advocate has a much harder time. What's he gonna do? Point
    >>>> to a person's cell phone, and tell them it runs Linux, and suggest they
    >>>> switch from Windows, to get that Linux experience on the desktop?
    >>>
    >>> Give them a win32 copy of Firefox or OpenOffice.

    >>
    >> And listen as they beg for iTunes back.


    iTunes is nothing special.

    If you aren't fixated on buying DRM laden stuff from Apple
    it is completely interchangable with a number of other applications.

    >
    > ITYM "Zune".
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> For a person to even get their toe in the water with Apple they
    >>> have to buy something. That's not a problem with Linux. The user can
    >>> try out everything with zero cost. They can also use a subset of the
    >>> available bits to make their Windows experience less miserable without
    >>> completely defecting.

    >>
    >> Sure, and 0.6 percent of desktop users do in fact end up sticking with
    >> Linux.

    >
    > And how do we know this?
    >
    >> The rest go running back to whatever they were using before they had a

    >
    > ITYM "Windows".
    >
    >> lapse of sanity and decided to try out Linux.
    >>
    >> You really need to get a clue how today's consumer operates and what she
    >> expects.

    >
    > S/he expects things to work. Windows works straight out of the box.
    > (At least until the infections set in later.) Linux almost works,
    > but requires installation and tweaking.


    ...sounds like a Windows install.

    "Don't plug in this device before installing the driver"

    [deletia]

    --
    Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
    better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
    want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
    rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  17. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    On 2008-05-06, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, JEDIDIAH
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 6 May 2008 17:01:44 -0500
    >:
    >> On 2008-05-06, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Erik Funkenbusch
    >>>
    >>> wrote
    >>> on Tue, 6 May 2008 11:14:47 -0400
    >>><18tjkz06fpj6w.dlg@funkenbusch.com>:
    >>>> On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:12:23 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    [deletia]
    >> Ah... no.
    >>
    >> Microsoft took advantage of the fact that every different
    >> make of car needs it's own brand of gasoline to go with it.
    >>
    >> Imagine a gas station with pumps for every brand of car.

    >
    > At the time, yes. Microsoft commoditized the market, yes.


    They didn't "commodotize" anything.

    They were just affiliated with the previous monopoly: IBM.

    > They then leveraged it -- DOS to Win3.1, Win3.1 to Win95,
    > Win95 to Win98 to WinMe (ha!) to WinXP, and finally the
    > latest and (FSVO) greatest, Windows Vista.
    >
    > And IBM was left somewhere between the bedroom and the altar... :-/
    >


    Ah... no.

    What created the PC as a commodity were the cloners Phoenix and Compaq.

    Microsoft was just lucky it got to go along for the ride.

    >>
    >> Most gas station owners would go insane. So they would instead
    >> tend to only support the most common cars.

    >
    > Further exacerbated by the requirement that Microsoft
    > gets paid for every fillup, regardless of whether they
    > use regular Microsoft, or premium Something Else(tm).
    >
    > But of course Microsoft was very nice to the filling stations;
    > they gave them a slight discount. Wasn't that lovely? :-)
    >
    >> Then eventually they
    >> would only support only one brand of car.

    >
    > Or one brand type. The PCs got a little weird, since IBM
    > did a foolish thing in publishing the entire BIOS listing.
    >
    > (Wish I still had that.)
    >
    >>
    >> This is what happened with PC's, nevermind non-PCs.

    >
    > Non-PCs dropped out of the equation because PCs underpriced them,
    > methinks.


    Not really.

    Amigas were simultaneously better and cheaper.

    Macs had the perception of being expensive but they weren't
    much more expensive than non-trash PCs. The fact that people could
    get a recycled PC that should have gone in the local landfill helped
    create this perception that PCs were "cheaper".

    Although cut-rate brands of clones weren't cheaper than Amigas or ST's.

    >
    >>
    >> [deletia]
    >>
    >> Microsoft got in bed with the right partner and got themselves
    >> enough "street cred" to nullify pretty much any other interesting
    >> criteria.
    >>

    >
    > Ah, it could have been so different. The 68000 was
    > a better processor. The Amiga was a better machine.
    > But oh well.
    >


    --
    Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
    better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
    want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
    rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.

    Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.usenet.com

  18. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:

    > iTunes is nothing special.


    It's worse than that, it's slow; bloated; buggy; and totally unnecessary.

    I have an iPod, and two machines running XP (dual boot) that I could run
    iTuna on if I really wanted to. In fact I used to, but it reached the
    stage where it became very frustrating waiting for iTuna's bloated
    interface. At times it takes up to one minute just to respond to certain
    tasks - specifically when adding new media or rescanning the database.

    Then there's the fact that it /really/ doesn't play well with others.
    Media uploaded to the device through other media managers gets
    arbitrarily wiped by iTuna, rather than imported into the database,
    which /should/ be the correct behaviour (at least it's the polite thing
    to do). In fact every aspect of iTuna feels restrictive (as if the bloat
    and general slowness wasn't enough)

    I thought Microsoft's Draconian control of the user's desktop experience
    was bad, until I started using Apple software, which is about a hundred
    times worse.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    00:28:43 up 138 days, 21:04, 5 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

  19. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    On Thu, 08 May 2008 00:28:56 +0100, Homer wrote:

    > Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
    >
    >> iTunes is nothing special.

    >
    > It's worse than that, it's slow; bloated; buggy; and totally unnecessary.


    Unless you want to buy music from the iTunes Store, then it's mandatory.

  20. Re: [Troll] Windows -- not even second best

    Erik Funkenbusch writes:

    > On Thu, 08 May 2008 00:28:56 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >
    >> Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
    >>
    >>> iTunes is nothing special.

    >>
    >> It's worse than that, it's slow; bloated; buggy; and totally unnecessary.

    >
    > Unless you want to buy music from the iTunes Store, then it's
    > mandatory.


    And is easy to use, has a consistent UI and a good built in normalizer.

    Lets face it - Homercrite just despises success of any kind. He's a
    washed up old procrastinator who puts nothing back in himself.

    --
    < doogie> asuffield: how do you think dpkg was originally written? :|
    < asuffield> by letting iwj get dangerously near a computer
    -- in #debian-devel

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