MS can't network without help - Linux
This is a discussion on MS can't network without help - Linux ; from hangout the mailing list of nylxs.com
oh as a side note if you are wondering about Microsoft cooperating
with the samba group in the early 90's here is a little history
NMB (network message block) and SMB (server message ...
MS can't network without help
from hangout the mailing list of nylxs.com
oh as a side note if you are wondering about Microsoft cooperating
with the samba group in the early 90's here is a little history
NMB (network message block) and SMB (server message block) were
originally developed by D.E.C. and I.B.M. for VMS and OS2. Microsoft
was granted the right to use the protocols when they signed a deal
with IBM to allow them to use portions of the OS2 source code in
Microsoft Windows 3.0. IBM made this agreement so that OS2 would have
a viable market competitor to avoid anti trust case (the fools). at
the same time Microsoft also hired some of the original developers of
VMS to write the first version of Microsoft Windows NT. At the time
Microsoft was still tryng to write integrate the new network code into
their products without violating any copyrights, they could use the
parts of the code that IBM wrote but not the parts of the code that
DEC wrote. Since Samba already had a viable implementation that met
these criteria before Microsoft ever got started they actually teamed
up with the samba group until the release of Microsoft Windows NT 4.0.
Upon the release of NT 4.0 Microsoft no longer needed the Samba groups
help and Microsoft decided that continuing the alliance would be a
liability to their new market share, because it would allow Unix and
Novel Netware to inter operate with their products. This meant that
working legacy implementations of their competitors products would
never completely disappear and may even get upgraded in the future, as
such they would always be a threat to Microsoft's market share.
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Paul Robert Marino wrote:
> As far as the ndiswrapper goes thats how most of the non free wifi
> drivers for linux work. It is kind of like introducing wine into the
> The Atheros chipset uses the Madwifi driver (EEEPC's use Atheros chipsets)
> there are two versions of the driver
> here is the statement at the top of their home page
> MadWifi is one of the most advanced WLAN drivers available for Linux
> today. It is stable and has an established userbase. The driver itself
> is open source but depends on the proprietary Hardware Abstraction
> Layer (HAL) that is available in binary form only.
> ath5k is a relatively new and emerging driver and does not depend on
> the HAL. It is intended to replace MadWifi in the long run and exceed
> it feature-wise. ath5k is where most of our development resources are
> spent on now.
> keep in mind both of these drivers are GPL it just the current stable
> one still relies on a closed source binary provided by the hardware
> manufacturer. the hardware manufacture did however let them see the
> source code so that they could get full Linux support for all of the
> features of the card immediately and later write there own fully GPL
> and here is Atheros's press release on the subject
> Press Release
> Open Source Linux Driver Now Available for Atheros 802.11b/g and
> 802.11a/b/g Chipsets
> Linux Community Rallies Behind Atheros Advanced Wireless LAN Technology
> SUNNYVALE, Calif., July 23, 2003�Atheros Communications, the leading
> developer and market share leader in advanced wireless LAN (WLAN)
> chipsets, today announced that the first open source Linux and FreeBSD
> software drivers for 802.11b/g and universal 802.11a/b/g products are
> now available as a free download from the Internet.
> Created by Open Source developer Sam Leffler, the 802.11a/b/g Linux
> driver is intended to be used as a building block for creating fully
> featured Linux-based 802.11b/g and 802.11a/b/g products such as
> network adapters, access points, and home gateways. The new Linux
> driver supports all three generations of Atheros' industry-leading
> chipsets for high performance 802.11b/g and universal 802.11a/b/g
> "Providing support for the Atheros products is an important
> development for the open source community," said Sam Leffler of Errno
> Consulting. "Open source developers and researchers have been
> hamstrung by limited access to wireless technology. Now that these
> drivers are available, we'll no longer be constrained to use legacy
> hardware. Developers can start implementing solutions based on
> Atheros' industry-leading 802.11b/g and 802.11a/b/g chipsets."
> "We are committed to making wireless technology more accessible for
> all developers," said Craig Barratt, president and chief executive
> officer for Atheros. "Mr. Leffler's recent contribution to the Open
> Source community empowers Linux users to take advantage of the most
> advanced 802.11b/g and universal 802.11a/b/g wireless LAN chips
> available on the market."
> To download a copy of the new Linux device driver please go to:
> The FreeBSD device driver is a standard part of the FreeBSD operating
> system; it is available at: http://www.freebsd.org/.
> here is the deal that Microsoft made with the Samba group
> Samba and the PFIF
> Samba Team Receives Microsoft Protocol Documentation
> December 20th 2007. Today the Protocol Freedom Information Foundation
> (PFIF), a non-profit organization created by the Software Freedom Law
> Center, signed an agreement with Microsoft to receive the protocol
> documentation needed to fully interoperate with the Microsoft Windows
> workgroup server products and to make them available to Free Software
> projects such as Samba.
> Microsoft was required to make this information available to
> competitors as part of the European Commission March 24th 2004
> Decision in the antitrust lawsuit, after losing their appeal against
> that decision on September 17th 2007.
> Andrew Tridgell, creator of Samba, said, "We are very pleased to be
> able to get access to the technical information necessary to continue
> to develop Samba as a Free Software project. Although we were
> disappointed the decision did not address the issue of patent claims
> over the protocols, it was a great achievement for the European
> Commission and for enforcement of antitrust laws in Europe. The
> agreement allows us to keep Samba up to date with recent changes in
> Microsoft Windows, and also helps other Free Software projects that
> need to interoperate with Windows".
> Jeremy Allison, co-creator of Samba said, "Andrew did a superb job in
> negotiating the agreement with Microsoft. We will be able to use the
> information obtained to continue to develop Samba and create more Free
> Software. We are hoping to get back to the productive relationship we
> had with Microsoft during the early 1990's when we shared information
> about these protocols. The agreement also clarifies the exact patent
> numbers concerned so there is no possibility of misunderstandings
> around this issue."
> Volker Lendecke, head of the Samba Team in Europe said, "I am very
> pleased to see that the European Commission acknowledged Free Software
> as a valid competitor in the IT industry and that the License
> conditions on the protocol information offered to the Free Software
> world are indeed compatible with the GPL. This is much better than
> what we have seen in similar cases in other countries and the
> Commission has done a great job to push the case to this point."
> Compatible with Free Software
> After paying Microsoft a one-time sum of 10,000 Euros, the PFIF will
> make available to the Samba Team under non-disclosure terms the
> documentation needed for implementation of all of the workgroup server
> protocols covered by the EU decision.
> Although the documentation itself will be held in confidence by the
> PFIF and Samba Team engineers, the agreement allows the publication of
> the source code of the implementation of these protocols without any
> further restrictions. This is fully compatible with versions two and
> three of the GNU General Public License (GPL). Samba is published
> under the GNU GPL which is the most widely used of all Free Software
> licenses. In addition it allows discussion of the protocol information
> amongst implementers which will aid technical cooperation between
> Under the agreement, Microsoft is required to make available and keep
> current a list of patent numbers it believes are related to the
> Microsoft implementation of the workgroup server protocols, without
> granting an implicit patent license to any Free Software
> No per-copy royalties are required from the PFIF, Samba developers,
> third party vendors or users and no acknowledgement of any patent
> infringement by Free Software implementations is expressed or implied
> in the agreement.
> The patent list provides us with a bounded set of work needed to
> ensure non-infringement of Samba and other Free Software projects that
> implement the protocols documented by Microsoft under this agreement.
> Any patents outside this list cannot be asserted by Microsoft against
> any implementation developed using the supplied documentation. Unlike
> the highly dubious patent covenants recently announced by some
> companies this warranty extends to all third parties. Also unlike past
> agreements, this agreement has been carefully scrutinized by the
> Software Freedom Law Center, the premier legal experts for the GPL and
> Free Software.
> Microsoft must keep the documentation up to date with new products and
> provide error correction assistance to parties signing the agreement.
> Disputes will be resolved by the Trustee appointed by the Commission
> as part of the court decision.
> The Samba Team would like to extend our heartfelt thanks to Carlo
> Piana from the Free Software Foundation Europe and Eben Moglen of the
> Software Freedom Law Center, who have been our legal representation on
> this case. They have provided world-class legal services for many
> years and we are sincerely grateful.
> The Samba Team.
> 20th December 2007
> For more information see:
> * The Samba Web site
> * An article on the history of the case
> * An article explaining some details of the agreement
> * The PFIF Web site
> * The PFIF agreement text
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Re: MS can't network without help
On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:48:50 -0400, Ruben wrote:
> from hangout the mailing list of nylxs.com
Sounds like Rex wrote that.
> oh as a side note if you are wondering about Microsoft cooperating
> with the samba group in the early 90's here is a little history
A false history.
> NMB (network message block) and SMB (server message block) were
> originally developed by D.E.C. and I.B.M. for VMS and OS2.
From this history:
It says that SMB grew out of NETBIOS, first implemented by IBM in 1984.
And that the first SMB manuals are copyrighted Microsoft and Intel in 1986
(a year before the OS/2 project was started). DEC was certainly involved
somewhere, but these timelines are certainly bogus.
> was granted the right to use the protocols when they signed a deal
> with IBM to allow them to use portions of the OS2 source code in
> Microsoft Windows 3.0.
That seems odd, given that Windows 3.0 wasn't until 1990, and Microsoft's
copyright is all over SMB for years before that.
> IBM made this agreement so that OS2 would have
> a viable market competitor to avoid anti trust case (the fools).
IBM and microsoft co-developed OS/2, and at first they were striving for
> the same time Microsoft also hired some of the original developers of
> VMS to write the first version of Microsoft Windows NT. At the time
> Microsoft was still tryng to write integrate the new network code into
> their products without violating any copyrights, they could use the
> parts of the code that IBM wrote but not the parts of the code that
> DEC wrote. Since Samba already had a viable implementation that met
> these criteria before Microsoft ever got started they actually teamed
> up with the samba group until the release of Microsoft Windows NT 4.0.
This is also false. According to the history of Samba, the first version
of SAMBA didn't even hit the net until 1992, and they used a network
sniffer to figure it out. Microsoft had had beta's of NT out for over a
year at that point, which included NTLM (LanMan).
Microsoft did release an RFC called CIFS which the Samba group used as a
roadmap sometime around 1995.
You'll notice that this official history doesn't mention any agreements