increase number of inodes on ext3 - Linux

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  1. increase number of inodes on ext3

    I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would
    be appreciated.
    conor

  2. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3


    "ronocgly" wrote in message
    news:80a7dd23-3aa7-4f83-82a8-72a5fc9da65f@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
    >I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    > a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    > to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    > would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    > move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    > per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would
    > be appreciated.
    > conor


    You're hosed dude. This is very dangerous and will probably leave your
    system unbootable and might even destroy all of your data.

    Linux Planet even had a big article about it. (Link below). It's very likely
    that things will get destroyed and your computers won't boot anymore.

    But it could be use. You could be running ReiserFS in which case you'd be
    really f*cked.

    http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6480/1



    GRUB vs. the Inodes: Who Needs a Bootable System, Anyway?


    Users of GRUB legacy, which is version 0.97, are getting bitten by an
    e2fsprogs incompatibility that renders their systems unbootable. e2fsprogs
    is the utilities package for the Ext3 filesystem, so it doesn't affect other
    filesystems. As this Ubuntu bug report states:


    The bug report says that there is a fix using grub-install, but I tried it
    and it didn't fix anything. This particular little bug apparently took a lot
    of people, including distribution maintainers, by surprise, with the result
    that some new installations were unbootable. Another way to bump into it is
    to create a new Ext3 filesystem on a multiboot system. It will install quite
    happily, in a normal fashion, and let you install a new Linux on it. Then
    when you try to boot into your new installation GRUB barfs with "Error 2:
    unknown file or directory type". GRUB does not recognize the new filesystem
    in any way, so dropping to the GRUB commandline for repairs does no good. If
    your GRUB bootfiles are installed on the new filesystem, you won't even get
    to the GRUB menu or command line.






    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  3. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    ronocgly wrote:

    > I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    > a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    > to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    > would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    > move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    > per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would
    > be appreciated.
    > conor


    If the problem were given to me, I'd dd the partition into a single file
    and use a virtual PC like Virtulbox to either install a new Linux
    and the application and test it to heart's content until it works - or try
    to boot the whole thing as a virtual disk. It works for Linux (not for
    windummy OSen!) providing of course you update the drivers for the video if
    you need that to come up - if its console based server, then that step
    can be avoided. The idea is to virtualise your legacy PC and then
    fix it and then when you can do it blind folded, do it to the
    real machine.

    After virtualisation, you can move the legacy system
    to ANY PC. If you choose to use a dual core
    or a quad core, you would get double and quad performance gain for the
    same application.

    A 2Tb disk machine with 8Gb RAM and quad core is outlay of about 800 pounds
    these days. Thats more than enough for many an application if its a legacy
    PC.



  4. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    Micoshaft Fraudster Ezekiel wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft
    Marketing Department:


    > You're hosed dude.



    You are sacked WINDUMMY dude!!!!!


    What the fsck do these WINDUMMIES know about Linux?

    Every WINDUMMY who behaves like Ezekiel needs to be sacked.
    They are not worth the toilet paper their names are written on.
    The quicker you can sacke WINDUMMY idiots from your
    workplace, the quicker you can get trained Linux staff
    into your building.


  5. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3


    "ronocgly" wrote in message
    news:80a7dd23-3aa7-4f83-82a8-72a5fc9da65f@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
    >I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    > a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    > to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    > would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    > move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    > per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would
    > be appreciated.
    > conor


    Hi, Conor. I'm an amateur in these matters, but at
    least I can make a sensible attempt to help. I have
    some ideas. My first is (I don't mean to be critical)
    that,

    1) That you're making this request implies you're in
    over your head on this. If you sit down with a notes
    pad and write down what the problem is; and then set
    out to find relevant information from books and from
    cyberspace, you may shortly become expert on the
    topic and it's no longer a problem.

    2) The problem you describe doesn't ring true. You
    say, 'millions' of tiny files? If this is so, then
    my first thought, is you've got a crummy piece of
    software there, someone designing that software did
    a bad job of it and maybe you really want to be
    finding a different software. In fact, ...where do
    you get that 'millions' from?

    3) In your shoes, I'd be very interested to see first,
    what limits there are on your inode sizes and on how
    many of those inodes you can write into the partition.

    4) If your employer doesn't realize this is a sizable
    problem and he expects you to pull a rabbit out of a
    hat and fix it quickly and easily, then maybe your
    best strategy is string it out while you embark upon
    an emergency job hunt. Clear out of there asap.

    5) If you've a large system there (or pretty much
    any size of system) and there is not a solid backups
    schedule running, think again about my 4). As I
    read your message, I suspect backups where you are,
    are more a forgotten nuisance than a real policy,
    and where that kind of situation exists, sooner or
    later comes a short sharp shock as something crashes
    and the employer in panic seeks a scapegoat. The
    scapegoat predictably is the person who implements
    the employer's policies on the system.

    6) I think your idea to stop the system, make a
    backup, try implementing your smaller inodes, then
    reload and restart, is basically doable assuming
    you know you're working safely within system limits.
    However, only go into this after practiced like
    work somewhere else, and you have good notes from
    it.

    7) Remember the Old Rule: when estimating the time
    to accomplish system changes, make the best time
    estimate you can, but do that silently. Go to the
    next unit of time, double it, and present the result
    as your plausible estimate. (I.e., you guess one
    hour to do it. Out loud, you say, 'Two days.')

    Good luck! Cheers -- mha [cola 2008 May 2]



  6. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On Fri, 2 May 2008 11:17:43 -0700 (PDT), ronocgly
    wrote:

    > I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    > a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs).


    I don't think you can change the number of inodes on the fly. You'll
    need to back up the filesystem, recreate it with more inodes, and
    restore the files.


    --
    -| Bob Hauck
    -| http://www.haucks.org/

  7. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On Fri, 02 May 2008 23:47:52 GMT, Martha Adams wrote:

    > 2) The problem you describe doesn't ring true. You
    > say, 'millions' of tiny files?


    Usenet servers running INN are one thing that does this.


    --
    -| Bob Hauck
    -| http://www.haucks.org/

  8. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3


    "Martha Adams" wrote in message
    news:IKNSj.731$cD3.207@trndny02...
    >
    > "ronocgly" wrote in message
    > news:80a7dd23-3aa7-4f83-82a8-72a5fc9da65f@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
    >>I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    >> a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    >> them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    >> to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    >> would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    >> move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    >> per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would
    >> be appreciated.
    >> conor

    >
    > Hi, Conor. I'm an amateur in these matters, but at
    > least I can make a sensible attempt to help. I have
    > some ideas. My first is (I don't mean to be critical)
    > that,


    Prepare for some great advice from "Marth" a Windows user posting via
    Outlook Express .


    > 1) That you're making this request implies you're in
    > over your head on this. If you sit down with a notes
    > pad and write down what the problem is; and then set
    > out to find relevant information from books and from
    > cyberspace, you may shortly become expert on the
    > topic and it's no longer a problem.


    Solution - Become an expert and it'll no longer be a problem.


    > 2) The problem you describe doesn't ring true. You
    > say, 'millions' of tiny files? If this is so, then
    > my first thought, is you've got a crummy piece of
    > software there, someone designing that software did
    > a bad job of it and maybe you really want to be
    > finding a different software. In fact, ...where do
    > you get that 'millions' from?


    Blame it on a "crummy piece of software."


    > 3) In your shoes, I'd be very interested to see first,
    > what limits there are on your inode sizes and on how
    > many of those inodes you can write into the partition.


    Since he wants to reduce the size he'd be able to get more from the
    partition. (Don't go too small however.)


    > 4) If your employer doesn't realize this is a sizable
    > problem and he expects you to pull a rabbit out of a
    > hat and fix it quickly and easily, then maybe your
    > best strategy is string it out while you embark upon
    > an emergency job hunt. Clear out of there asap.


    Quit your job - Great solution there.


    > 5) If you've a large system there (or pretty much
    > any size of system) and there is not a solid backups
    > schedule running, think again about my 4). As I
    > read your message, I suspect backups where you are,
    > are more a forgotten nuisance than a real policy,
    > and where that kind of situation exists, sooner or
    > later comes a short sharp shock as something crashes
    > and the employer in panic seeks a scapegoat. The
    > scapegoat predictably is the person who implements
    > the employer's policies on the system.


    You never mentioned whether this is a personal/home computer or something
    at work. I didn't jump to any assumptions.


    > 6) I think your idea to stop the system, make a
    > backup, try implementing your smaller inodes, then
    > reload and restart, is basically doable assuming
    > you know you're working safely within system limits.
    > However, only go into this after practiced like
    > work somewhere else, and you have good notes from
    > it.


    No matter what you do... BACK UP YOUR DATA first. If at all possible which
    is should be, even if you have to borrow a USB drive from someone.


    > 7) Remember the Old Rule: when estimating the time
    > to accomplish system changes, make the best time
    > estimate you can, but do that silently. Go to the
    > next unit of time, double it, and present the result
    > as your plausible estimate. (I.e., you guess one
    > hour to do it. Out loud, you say, 'Two days.')


    Sounds like the COLA rule of thumb as to how long it takes to get a
    computer properly with linux. Post that it took 1-hour when it really takes
    2-days.


    > Good luck! Cheers -- mha [cola 2008 May 2]


    Martha - proud user of Windows and Outlook Express.


    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  9. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    In article
    <80a7dd23-3aa7-4f83-82a8-72a5fc9da65f@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>,
    ronocgly wrote:
    > I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    > a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way


    Why can't you move them to a different filesystem? If the legacy
    application has a hard-coded path that you can't change, there's a good
    chance you can fix that with a symbolic link. Say the application
    writes the files in /some/hard/coded/dir. Make a new directory on a
    filesystem with plenty of inodes, copy everything from dir to that,
    remove dir, and make a symlink from /some/hard/coded/dir to the
    directory on the new filesystem. The application should think
    everything is fine.

    Another approach. Make a new filesystem somewhere. Mount it on top of
    /some/hard/coded/dir. If you don't have a spare disk, or a spare
    partition, you can make your filesystem in a file, and mount it with the
    loopback device.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  10. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On Fri, 02 May 2008 11:17:43 -0700, ronocgly wrote:

    > I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is a
    > legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    > to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or would
    > it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime move the
    > data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes- per-inode,
    > hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would be
    > appreciated.
    > conor


    I've seen some other posts here and there are some good ideas, but I
    think I'd do this way:

    Install in another hard drive (dunno if you can do that on your system...)

    Format a filesystem on that drive which is more appropriate for the
    application you are using (or an ext3 system with lots and lots of
    inodes).

    Mount the partition in a temporary location (ie /mnt/tmplocation)

    Copy the files over

    Delete the original files (leaving the files on the new drive)

    Remount the new partition so that the files appear in the old location.
    ie, if the originals are in /var/db/someapp/data: "mount /dev/PARTITION /
    var/db/someapp/data"

    I hope this helps give you another option that works for you.

  11. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    * alt peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Fri, 02 May 2008 11:17:43 -0700, ronocgly wrote:
    >
    >> I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. ...

    >
    > I've seen some other posts here and there are some good ideas, but I
    > think I'd do this way:


    Lot's of sensible answers, except for 7 and Ezekiel, and, of course,
    this one.

    Ah, listen to old Bill "Ich bin ein Roboter" on the psychology he used
    in pushing Microsoft into its monopoly position:

    --
    You see, antiquated ideas of kindness and generosity are simply bugs that
    must be programmed out of our world. And these cold, unfeeling machines will
    show us the way.
    -- Bill Gates

  12. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    newsZZSj.105017$Er2.26825@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
    >* alt peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Fri, 02 May 2008 11:17:43 -0700, ronocgly wrote:
    >>
    >>> I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. ...

    >>
    >> I've seen some other posts here and there are some good ideas, but I
    >> think I'd do this way:

    >
    > Lot's of sensible answers, except for 7 and Ezekiel, and, of course,
    > this one.
    >
    > Ah, listen to old Bill "Ich bin ein Roboter" on the psychology he used
    > in pushing Microsoft into its monopoly position:
    >
    > --
    > You see, antiquated ideas of kindness and generosity are simply bugs
    > that
    > must be programmed out of our world. And these cold, unfeeling
    > machines will
    > show us the way.
    > -- Bill Gates


    What! That Gates quote: can someone provide a complete
    attribution for it? When; where; in what context? ??
    I need it!

    Thanks for putting this out to the real world,
    'Linonut'. I have not seen a better summary anywhere
    of the Microsoft Way (and of too much else in today's
    social realities).

    Thanks -- mha [cola 2008 May 3]



  13. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    "Martha Adams" writes:

    > "ronocgly" wrote in message
    > news:80a7dd23-3aa7-4f83-82a8-72a5fc9da65f@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
    >>I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    >> a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    >> them them up or move to a diff fs). I was wondering if there was a way
    >> to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    >> would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    >> move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    >> per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes? Any help would
    >> be appreciated.
    >> conor

    >
    > Hi, Conor. I'm an amateur in these matters, but at
    > least I can make a sensible attempt to help. I have
    > some ideas. My first is (I don't mean to be critical)
    > that,
    >
    > 1) That you're making this request implies you're in
    > over your head on this. If you sit down with a notes
    > pad and write down what the problem is; and then set
    > out to find relevant information from books and from
    > cyberspace, you may shortly become expert on the
    > topic and it's no longer a problem.
    >
    > 2) The problem you describe doesn't ring true. You
    > say, 'millions' of tiny files? If this is so, then
    > my first thought, is you've got a crummy piece of
    > software there, someone designing that software did
    > a bad job of it and maybe you really want to be
    > finding a different software. In fact, ...where do
    > you get that 'millions' from?


    Very common. You are clearly clueless. Try Maildir for a start.

  14. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On Sat, 03 May 2008 04:51:03 +0000, alt wrote:

    > Delete the original files (leaving the files on the new drive)


    On second though, don't delete the original files. mount over the
    directory instead. the files will still exist and can be a backup.

  15. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On Sat, 03 May 2008 09:43:13 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * alt peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Fri, 02 May 2008 11:17:43 -0700, ronocgly wrote:
    >>
    >>> I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. ...

    >>
    >> I've seen some other posts here and there are some good ideas, but I
    >> think I'd do this way:

    >
    > Lot's of sensible answers, except for 7 and Ezekiel, and, of course,
    > this one.


    I have Ezekiel on kill, so I don't see his spewage. 7's idea is
    interesting, but I don't know if it really addresses the problem.

    oh yeah, I almost forgot.... smartass ;-)


  16. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    * Martha Adams peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> --
    >> You see, antiquated ideas of kindness and generosity are simply bugs
    >> that
    >> must be programmed out of our world. And these cold, unfeeling
    >> machines will
    >> show us the way.
    >> -- Bill Gates

    >
    > What! That Gates quote: can someone provide a complete
    > attribution for it? When; where; in what context? ??
    > I need it!


    Google for this phrase, in quotes:

    antiquated ideas of kindness and generosity are simply bugs

    I found that quote some place, but I'm not sure you'll find anything
    obtainable from a first-hand source.

    However, there are other quotes (e.g from Philippe Kahn) that indicate
    how some people view Gates.

    Also try

    microsoft+borland+gates

    Here's one:

    http://www.news.com/2009-1023-229218.html

    (1999)

    "Beating on your chest and saying, 'We are taking on Microsoft' is
    one sure way to get their attention," said David Smith, an analyst
    with the Gartner Group. "No one who has done that has survived."

    . . .

    Borland, for instance, controlled 50 percent of the $600 million
    database management software market in the early 1990s. At that time,
    the company's stock traded at nearly $90 per share; today it hovers
    around $4. Five CEOs have come and gone since 1994, and none has been
    able to regain the company's former luster and market valuation.

    Throughout this period, Microsoft proved a patient enemy. The final
    chapter in the decade-long battle came just last month, when Dale
    Fuller, the latest executive to take the helm at Inprise, accepted a
    Faustian bargain from the software giant. In exchange for a
    desperately needed $125 million cash infusion, the company gave
    Microsoft the blueprints for much of its key technology, let
    Microsoft off the hook by settling long-standing patent disputes, and
    agreed to tie its own tools even more tightly to the Windows
    operating system.

    . . .

    A familiar pattern

    Microsoft beat Borland by undercutting prices, bundling new features
    into its products and by hiring away its key executives. It is a
    pattern familiar to many other companies past and present that were
    unlucky enough to find themselves in Microsoft's crosshairs,
    including Netscape Communications, Stac Software, Novell, and Corel,
    as well as Apple.

    --
    Television is not real life. In real life people actually have to leave the
    coffee shop and go to jobs.
    -- Bill Gates

  17. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On 2008-05-03, Bob Hauck wrote:
    > On Fri, 02 May 2008 23:47:52 GMT, Martha Adams wrote:
    >
    >> 2) The problem you describe doesn't ring true. You
    >> say, 'millions' of tiny files?

    >
    > Usenet servers running INN are one thing that does this.


    You can run INN with a circular buffer rather than individual files.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  18. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    Linonut wrote:

    > Ah, listen to old Bill "Ich bin ein Roboter" on the psychology he used
    > in pushing Microsoft into its monopoly position:


    > "You see, antiquated ideas of kindness and generosity are simply bugs that
    > must be programmed out of our world. And these cold, unfeeling machines
    > will
    > show us the way." -- Bill Gates



    As if a hypocrite like you - or any cola hypocrite - would ever
    kindly and generously donate his paycheck to anyone.




  19. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    On May 2, 2:17 pm, ronocgly wrote:
    > I need to increase the number of inodes on an ext3 filesystem. (it is
    > a legacy application that writes millions of small files, I cannot tar
    > them them up or move to a diff fs).


    This is one of the reasons why UNIX and Linux administrators often
    create many smaller partitions rather than one large partition. For
    example, some partitions might be read-mostly and shared with other
    users or other servers, and the partition can be optimized for that.
    Others might have large database table-spaces, and will be optimized
    for that. Others might be highly interactive, such as /var files, and
    have lots of little transaction files rather than one large file.
    Others might be large log files that need to be rotated periodically.

    Remember, the main reason Microsoft has OEMs put only one partition on
    your desktop is because they don't want you creating other partitions
    for other systems, at least not easily. There are tools such as
    Partition magic that make it easy to safely and reliably shrink the
    Microsoft partition, but even those ar subverted by little Microsoft
    "tricks" such as putting unmovable blocks at both ends of the
    partition to prevent shrinking the drive.

    > I was wondering if there was a way
    > to increase the number of inodes on the filesystem on the fly, or
    > would it be safer or perhaps the only option for me to get downtime
    > move the data off and recreate the fs with a smaller number of bytes-
    > per-inode, hence giving me a larger number of inodes?


    You might not even have to suffer downtime. Create a new partition on
    a USB drive that has the smaller number of bytes per i-node and then
    copy all of those extra i-nodes. Then, you can have the computer use
    the USB drive while you create the original partition with a larger
    number of i-nodes (by reducing the bytes/inode). Normally Linux will
    create extra i-nodes if needed, but there are limits, and you may have
    hit them.

    Normally, you can copy files even as they are being written. You can
    even use "find -newer ..." to do a quick "catch-up" of any files that
    were copied since the backup was started, by touching a file. and
    checking for files newer than that file after the backup.

    If you have any DBM files, or "sparse" files, it's usually a good idea
    to use a similar utility to copy the actual records rather than
    attempt to copy the files directly. This is because sparse files
    simply map i-node space that is actually being used, but if you
    attempt to tar or copy the files, the copy will attempt to copy blocks
    containing nulls. Some filesystems used by Linux will detect a block
    full of nulls and make the file "sparse", but others will just try to
    copy it into physical disk space (not what is wanted).

    Keep in mind that Unix has been around for over 30 years, and Linux
    has been around for over 15 years. Most of the most common problems
    with both environments have tools designed to provide optimal support
    and optimal back-up.

    Any more specific information in this type of request for help will
    usually get you a more specific and practical solution.

    I have had similar problems to those you describe, where I had a huge
    number of "itty bitty files" that had been generated by mh and inn. I
    had many MORE problems with both Windows Fat-32 and NTFS as well as
    some of the BSD file-systems. I have yet to hit the wall with ext-3
    or Reiser file-systems.

    Generally, Linux is very good at dynamically balancing i-nodes, disk
    buffers, memory, and other resources dynamically, based on what is
    happening to the machine at a given period of time. One of the
    reasons that I like Linux so much compared to systems like Solaris, is
    because I don't have to "tweak" the system parameters very often.

    > Any help would
    > be appreciated.
    > conor



  20. Re: increase number of inodes on ext3

    In article ,
    "DFS" wrote:
    > Linonut wrote:
    >
    > > Ah, listen to old Bill "Ich bin ein Roboter" on the psychology he used
    > > in pushing Microsoft into its monopoly position:

    >
    > > "You see, antiquated ideas of kindness and generosity are simply bugs that
    > > must be programmed out of our world. And these cold, unfeeling machines
    > > will
    > > show us the way." -- Bill Gates

    >
    >
    > As if a hypocrite like you - or any cola hypocrite - would ever
    > kindly and generously donate his paycheck to anyone.


    For an alleged Bill Gates quote, it is interesting how few places it
    shows up on the net--and how none of them cite a source for it. Linonut
    is learning well from his idol, Roy.


    --
    --Tim Smith

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