[News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert - Linux ; Stark warning for internet's future ,----[ Quote ] | He contrasts generative devices with "sterile appliances", closed systems | which appear to give consumers access to the net. | | He argued such devices were damaging innovation and potentially putting ...

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Thread: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

  1. [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    Stark warning for internet's future

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | He contrasts generative devices with "sterile appliances", closed systems
    | which appear to give consumers access to the net.
    |
    | He argued such devices were damaging innovation and potentially putting
    | easilly-abused powers into the hands of a few companies and governments.
    |
    | "Consumers are eagerly asking for technologies, which can be used to surveil
    | or control them," said professor Zittrain.
    |
    | He said he was concerned that users who wanted basic access to the web were
    | driving the adoption of closed systems.
    `----

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7364901.stm

    He is in favour of "programmable" blocks. Another new example of the dangers:

    Why DRM Must Die

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Luckily, I bought only a few songs before I came to my senses, so this isn't
    | a complete disaster. I'll either find a way to break the copy protection, or
    | I'll buy the songs again--this time as .mp3s. I can assure you I won't be
    | buying them from Zune.net.
    |
    | It's easy to dismiss this as a typical Microsoft move, and there's a lot of
    | truth to that. But the simple fact is that Napster, MusicMatch, and even the
    | much-beloved Apple could pull the same stunt tomorrow.
    |
    | As long as you can't play your music without permission from the store that
    | sold it to you, you haven't bought that music; you're only renting it.
    `---- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^

    http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006850.html


    Related:

    Proprietors not as friendly to infringers as Free Software copyright holders

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Quite to the contrary, the SFLC is using litigation as a last resort: I doubt
    | any well-known proprietor would take all the steps the SFLC has taken to
    | remedy the infringement without publicity or lawsuit. Eben Moglen has
    | enforced the GPL for many years and says that “compliance with the license,
    | and security for future good behavior, are the most important goals”, which
    | meant Moglen was in private talks with many infringers, rarely requiring from
    | them public admission of wrongdoing. This is, Moglen says, a big reason why
    | the lack of GPL court cases shows how strong the GPL is: it’s rare to find
    | anyone who wanted to test the waters... * * * *
    `----

    http://www.digitalcitizen.info/2007/...right-holders/
    http://tinyurl.com/3yp37e


    Why does Humanity needs Free Software ?

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | These projects are directly bound to social movements which cares about
    | individuals integrity and world peace. Open source do not care about politics
    | and your rights. The actual capitalism system tends to harm life, liberty and
    | freedom. Don’t take me wrong, I am not talking against capitalism as long as
    | it doesn’t walk on the democracy’s feet. But an economical system which
    | threaten human life, is a system which has to be improved, and that’s what
    | free software tends to do by spreading social values.
    |
    | Liberty is the right to choose. Freedom is the result of the right choice.
    `----

    http://kin.calvin.free.fr/blog/?p=5


    Free Software as a Social Innovation

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | Free Software is a unique social innovation which promotes an empowered,
    | sustainable and inclusive information society through its freedoms of use,
    | studying, modification and redistribution. Popular Free Software applications
    | include the Firefox web browser, the Wordpress blog engine and the Juice
    | podcast receiver. The philosophy behind Free Software has also inspired new
    | social projects like Wikipedia, Creative Commons and Open Access.
    `----

    http://electronicpapercommunication....nnovation.html

    Fair Use Advocates Issue Principles for Protecting Online Videos

    ,----[ Quote ]
    | To accompany the "Fair Use Principles" document, EFF has also posted a
    | gallery of videos that could be jeopardized by automated copyright filters,
    | in hopes that video hosting services and content owners will be able to test
    | their filters against these fair use videos.
    `----

    http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/g...-online-videos
    http://tinyurl.com/2pgn7x


    Oppression and exploitation may be profitable, but it's immoral:

    ..----[ Quote ]
    | I wanted to be able to live in freedom, I wanted to be able to
    | change software that I didn't like, and I wanted to be able to
    | cooperate with other people - distribute software to other people.
    | I didn't want to accept being forbidden to share, but how could I
    | possibly escape from that? The only straightforward way was - don't
    | use a computer. There was no other way to escape from those
    | restrictions in 1983. The only way there could be another way, was
    | to build a free operating system, so that's what I decided to do.
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | I don't bring this issue up, from the viewpoint of why you,
    | developing a program, would find it advantageous to respect other
    | people's freedom, because the point is it's your moral /duty/.
    | You've got no right to trample other people's freedom. Non-free
    | software's a social problem, it's wrong, and /that's/ what I argue.
    | I argue that position with programmers or non-programmers, whoever
    | it happens to be, because it's the same issue. And so what I tell
    | people is not "whatever your aims are you will achieve them more
    | if you respect other people's freedom", because that's not always
    | true. There are aims for which subjugating other people is
    | advantageous ... but it isn't /right/.
    `----

    http://cisx1.uma.maine.edu/~wbackman...bsdtalk132.ogg

  2. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz

    wrote
    on Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:03:39 +0100
    <2279605.yOnGcMguHR@schestowitz.com>:
    > Stark warning for internet's future
    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    > | He contrasts generative devices with "sterile appliances", closed systems
    > | which appear to give consumers access to the net.


    An interesting problem. What, exactly, is "access"?
    In one view of the world, for example, one might need
    an account with every packet router (including internal
    equipment such as CD-DVD readers!). Another, only slightly
    more likely one would require that every packet router
    would look at the state of said account and route packets
    with an appropriate delay and/or throughput calculation,
    subject to other limitations imposed by its owner.

    The current method simply chokes the router if the router
    gets too many packets and packet requests through it -- not
    all that good a thing, but a reasonably democratic one;
    first come, first served.

    > |
    > | He argued such devices were damaging innovation and potentially putting
    > | easilly-abused powers into the hands of a few companies and governments.


    Companies, maybe; in an ideal world governments would
    not interfere. Governments, hopefully not -- but I'll
    admit the boundary line's getting a little fuzzy in spots
    (Blackwater, anybody?)

    Of course governments exist to attempt to limit company
    and/or individual abuses of power, such as Standard Oil in
    the 19th and early 20th century, and the current Executive
    Branch. (At least, in theory.)

    Nor is it clear to me that there's much difference
    operationally, online. Who's filtering packets? Who's
    asking for them? Who's delivering them? USPS versus
    AT&T/Earthlink/Level3; it makes no difference really except
    that the payload is electronic as opposed to paper products
    (and maybe who the clientele is; AFAIK Level3 doesn't deal
    directly with us DSL customers, for example).

    > |
    > | "Consumers are eagerly asking for technologies, which can
    > | be used to surveil or control them," said professor Zittrain.


    Or others in lieu thereof. Baby monitors come to mind.
    Someone actually was selling an ankle bracelet for kids,
    designed for commercial use; house arrest is also possible
    using a vaguely similar bracelet.

    And of course phone numbers are routinely tracked (though
    the actual content probably shouldn't be -- though there
    are a number of issues relating to data versus voice)
    for billing purposes.

    AFAICT, it's all bandwidth, measured in "minutes per
    month", the minute being measured under standard conditions
    (used to be about 3kHz or 6kbps; might be a little higher
    now). It might be worth noting that there's a little
    more than 40,000 minutes per month if one goes 24/7/365;
    1,000 minutes is exhausted after 2 8-hour workdays.

    1,000 minutes per month is about 140 bits/second, if one
    assumes the aforementioned 6kbps fidelity during the
    actual call. Not exactly taxing to the Internet, is it?

    > |
    > | He said he was concerned that users who wanted basic access
    > | to the web were driving the adoption of closed systems.


    A combination of users, phreakers, and malware-writers.[*]

    > `----
    >
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7364901.stm
    >
    > He is in favour of "programmable" blocks.


    A what? Well, that sounds like a dual-decider system,
    then. I'll have to think about this.

    > Another new example of the dangers:
    >
    > Why DRM Must Die


    It's not dead yet anyway? Sigh.

    >
    > ,----[ Quote ]
    > | Luckily, I bought only a few songs before I came to my senses,
    > | so this isn't a complete disaster. I'll either find a way to
    > | break the copy protection, or I'll buy the songs again--this
    > | time as .mp3s. I can assure you I won't be buying them from Zune.net.
    > |
    > | It's easy to dismiss this as a typical Microsoft move, and
    > | there's a lot of truth to that. But the simple fact is that
    > | Napster, MusicMatch, and even the much-beloved Apple could
    > | pull the same stunt tomorrow.
    > |
    > | As long as you can't play your music without permission from
    > | the store that sold it to you, you haven't bought that music;
    > | you're only renting it.
    > `----
    >
    > http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006850.html


    Not sure what to make of DRM. Of course DRM is highly
    soiled anyway, but in an ideal world (or somebody's ideal
    world, anyway) we'd be able to distinguish between:

    [1] Listening to music.

    [2] Having a few friends over and listening to some music,
    over a beer (or maybe at a bar).

    [3] Piping the music to a stadium with a few hundred thousand
    friends listening in (see also [5]).

    [4] Streaming the music to potentially billions of people
    (see also [5]).

    [5] Duplicating (or "ripping", a form of conversion) the music.

    [6] Duplicating the music and selling it.

    [7] Taking the music and including it in another work
    (e.g., a video game, term paper).

    [8] Taking the music and modifying it, and including
    the result in another work (a number of rappers got into
    trouble for this, AIUI).

    [9] Taking the music and misrepresenting it as one's
    own work. (The courts must hate this one.)

    [10] Writing one's own music (not sure that's even possible
    anymore, if one thinks weirdly enough -- after all, all
    music has a cultural subcontext, and I've run into some
    technical problems from an instrument standpoint since I
    like to use ALSA; the waveforms keep mutating).

    In practice the boundary between [5] and [6] is very very
    thin (though one might quibble as to whether "oh, hi,
    neighbor, can I pay you $1.99 to make a copy of Beyonce" ==
    "Hello; how many thousands of Slightly Suspect Discs(tm)
    of Ms. Knowles' work did you want to purchase today for
    inventory?"; it appears RIAA thinks both are criminal
    activities), and the boundaries between [1] and [5]
    virtually nonexistent (that digital stream has to be
    decoded somewhere!), and of course once one has [5],
    [7] through [9] fall right out of the box; [6] might be a
    little harder depending on how persuasive one is (and how
    willing people are to buy unofficial copies).

    [10], well...there's still a few composers left, methinks.
    Some of them might even be non-deaf. ;-) Of course,
    in light of [6] and [9], things get interesting; there's
    been a couple of court cases where the claimant claims
    the much more famous defendant stole and/or misrepresented
    the almost exact same song, making it popular.

    Welcome to the New World Order...

    [rest snipped for brevity]
    [*] I can't think of a better term, really, but this shows
    my age.

    A hacker, after all, chops up code into little pieces
    and then reassembles it, hopefully in an elegant way,
    but more likely just a hack job (hence the term; one might
    call them a hatchet-man in other contexts).

    The more insidious cracker will gain illegal access into
    code and systems; the analogy here is along the lines
    of safe-cracking. The two are related, unfortunately.

    A phreaker is a concept straight from the 70's, or maybe
    80's. Regrettably, I never got a whistle (certainly
    I wouldn't phreak anyway, but I'm a curious sort), but
    Stephen Levy's book mentions same. The phone system is
    of course far far different from the relatively simple
    and crackable one back then -- but I surmise parts of it
    are still crackable.

    A malware-writer writes malware -- viruses, phishing
    websites, pharming attacks. The good ones are probably
    well recognized within their very limited circles; the
    bad ones are occasionally called "script-kiddies".

    And then there's organized crime, which is presumably
    financing some of this, probably a *lot* of this.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Is it cheaper to learn Linux, or to hire someone
    to fix your Windows problems?

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  3. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 28 April 2008 19:21 : \____

    > [10] Writing one's own music (not sure that's even possible
    > anymore


    Wait until people start copyrighting soundbeats, just as they patent trivial
    software 'tricks'. Artistic interpretation and inspiration already make the
    idea of copying one's music a borderline thing. Can you measure song
    similarity? Sound similarity? Voice imitation? What about humour?

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Sharks are immune to cancer
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

  4. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz

    wrote
    on Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:23 +0100
    <3809891.B3RWdc5cBW@schestowitz.com>:
    > ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 28 April 2008 19:21 : \____
    >
    >> [10] Writing one's own music (not sure that's even possible
    >> anymore

    >
    > Wait until people start copyrighting soundbeats, just as
    > they patent trivial software 'tricks'. Artistic interpretation
    > and inspiration already make the idea of copying one's music
    > a borderline thing. Can you measure song similarity?
    > Sound similarity? Voice imitation? What about humour?
    >


    I believe satire is covered under free speech court
    rulings, but I could see this sort of thing clogging the
    courts (they'd have to judge whether one piece of music
    is derived from and/or similar to another). AFAIK most
    satire, however, uses lyrics to make its point -- the
    one coming to mind is Weird Al's "Eat It", which is
    based on Michael Jackson's "Beat It" melody-wise.

    But there's only so many chord transitions in a musical
    "phrase" anyway. One can even give an upper limit, given
    the chordset (and many of them would be aesthetically ugly
    anyway, in the wrong musical context).

    For example, assuming major chords only, one has 12
    possibilities; assuming three transitions and starting
    with C, one gets 11^3 = 1331 basic phrasings. Granted,
    identifying the musical pieces corresponding with these
    phrasings would be a rather detailed (and probably tedious)
    exercise.

    Minor, 7, diminished, and augmented chord variants,
    and variations such as trills and triplets make for even
    more fun. There are also issues such as "chord rotation"
    (sorry, can't think of the proper musical term therefor);
    one can express C major as either C2[*]-E2-G2, E2-G2-C3,
    G2-C3-E3 with a basic 3-set, or C2-E2-G2-C2 with 4 notes
    (and of course the variations set in; C7 in particular
    is C2-E2-G2-B2).

    So maybe there's plenty of songs left in the human condition. ;-)
    Or at least plenty of variation. Think of, for example, of
    the song "The Old Gray Mare" with a triplet accompaiment, or
    the traditional funeral march played in a syncopated style.

    As for beats....I could see that happening, mostly because the
    fancier keyboards commonly come with a set of beats. One hopes
    of course for sanity in this area.
    [*] C2 is middle C, if I'm not mistaken, in MIDI. I'd have
    to look now, though, and instrument variations will change
    registers.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    If your CPU can't stand the heat, get another fan.
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  5. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:22:12 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:23 +0100
    > <3809891.B3RWdc5cBW@schestowitz.com>:
    >> ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 28 April 2008 19:21 : \____
    >>
    >>> [10] Writing one's own music (not sure that's even possible
    >>> anymore

    >>
    >> Wait until people start copyrighting soundbeats, just as
    >> they patent trivial software 'tricks'. Artistic interpretation
    >> and inspiration already make the idea of copying one's music
    >> a borderline thing. Can you measure song similarity?
    >> Sound similarity? Voice imitation? What about humour?
    >>

    >
    > I believe satire is covered under free speech court
    > rulings, but I could see this sort of thing clogging the
    > courts (they'd have to judge whether one piece of music
    > is derived from and/or similar to another). AFAIK most
    > satire, however, uses lyrics to make its point -- the
    > one coming to mind is Weird Al's "Eat It", which is
    > based on Michael Jackson's "Beat It" melody-wise.


    >[*] C2 is middle C, if I'm not mistaken, in MIDI. I'd have
    > to look now, though, and instrument variations will change
    > registers.


    Beats aka loops are already copyrighted by many people.
    When you purchase a DVD of beats, or loops, you also purchase the right to
    use them in commercial works, generally speaking.

    Middle C is always note 60 in MIDI.
    In musical notation it can be C3, C4 or C2 depending upon how many octaves
    are on the instrument and which method is used for notation.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

  7. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

  8. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 05 May 2008 22:22 : \____

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:23 +0100
    > <3809891.B3RWdc5cBW@schestowitz.com>:
    >> ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 28 April 2008 19:21 : \____
    >>
    >>> [10] Writing one's own music (not sure that's even possible
    >>> anymore

    >>
    >> Wait until people start copyrighting soundbeats, just as
    >> they patent trivial software 'tricks'. Artistic interpretation
    >> and inspiration already make the idea of copying one's music
    >> a borderline thing. Can you measure song similarity?
    >> Sound similarity? Voice imitation? What about humour?
    >>

    >
    > I believe satire is covered under free speech court
    > rulings, but I could see this sort of thing clogging the
    > courts (they'd have to judge whether one piece of music
    > is derived from and/or similar to another). AFAIK most
    > satire, however, uses lyrics to make its point -- the
    > one coming to mind is Weird Al's "Eat It", which is
    > based on Michael Jackson's "Beat It" melody-wise.
    >
    > But there's only so many chord transitions in a musical
    > "phrase" anyway. One can even give an upper limit, given
    > the chordset (and many of them would be aesthetically ugly
    > anyway, in the wrong musical context).
    >
    > For example, assuming major chords only, one has 12
    > possibilities; assuming three transitions and starting
    > with C, one gets 11^3 = 1331 basic phrasings. Granted,
    > identifying the musical pieces corresponding with these
    > phrasings would be a rather detailed (and probably tedious)
    > exercise.
    >
    > Minor, 7, diminished, and augmented chord variants,
    > and variations such as trills and triplets make for even
    > more fun. There are also issues such as "chord rotation"
    > (sorry, can't think of the proper musical term therefor);
    > one can express C major as either C2[*]-E2-G2, E2-G2-C3,
    > G2-C3-E3 with a basic 3-set, or C2-E2-G2-C2 with 4 notes
    > (and of course the variations set in; C7 in particular
    > is C2-E2-G2-B2).
    >
    > So maybe there's plenty of songs left in the human condition. ;-)
    > Or at least plenty of variation. Think of, for example, of
    > the song "The Old Gray Mare" with a triplet accompaiment, or
    > the traditional funeral march played in a syncopated style.
    >
    > As for beats....I could see that happening, mostly because the
    > fancier keyboards commonly come with a set of beats. One hopes
    > of course for sanity in this area.
    >
    >[*] C2 is middle C, if I'm not mistaken, in MIDI. I'd have
    > to look now, though, and instrument variations will change
    > registers.


    So we are still left with no solution. This renders part of the whole
    intellectual monopoly wet dream the moguls are having a tad obsolete, doesn't
    it?

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: A dragonfly only lives for one day
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    06:20:01 up 21 days, 4:32, 5 users, load average: 0.61, 0.95, 1.04
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  9. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, banjo boy69

    wrote
    on 06 May 2008 02:49:48 GMT
    <481fc74c$0$22076$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org>:
    > Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)
    >
    > http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    > http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html
    >
    > Traits:
    >
    > * Nym shifting (see below)
    > * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    > * Homophobic
    > * Racist
    > * Habitual liar
    > * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    > * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA


    Are you two related? :-P At least Moshe *tries* to be
    relevant to COLA, or at least to competitors of Linux
    which are frequently referenced therein.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #104392:
    for(int i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) sleep(0);
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  10. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz

    wrote
    on Tue, 06 May 2008 06:22:11 +0100
    <3182816.FI2n75cBoy@schestowitz.com>:
    > ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 05 May 2008 22:22 : \____
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:23 +0100
    >> <3809891.B3RWdc5cBW@schestowitz.com>:
    >>> ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Monday 28 April 2008 19:21 : \____
    >>>
    >>>> [10] Writing one's own music (not sure that's even possible
    >>>> anymore
    >>>
    >>> Wait until people start copyrighting soundbeats, just as
    >>> they patent trivial software 'tricks'. Artistic interpretation
    >>> and inspiration already make the idea of copying one's music
    >>> a borderline thing. Can you measure song similarity?
    >>> Sound similarity? Voice imitation? What about humour?
    >>>

    >>
    >> I believe satire is covered under free speech court
    >> rulings, but I could see this sort of thing clogging the
    >> courts


    [snip for brevity]

    >> As for beats....I could see that happening, mostly because the
    >> fancier keyboards commonly come with a set of beats. One hopes
    >> of course for sanity in this area.
    >>
    >>[*] C2 is middle C, if I'm not mistaken, in MIDI. I'd have
    >> to look now, though, and instrument variations will change
    >> registers.

    >
    > So we are still left with no solution. This renders
    > part of the whole intellectual monopoly wet dream the
    > moguls are having a tad obsolete, doesn't it?
    >


    Depends on the problem, doesn't it? Are we:

    [1] defending the right for a consumer to use the data file
    (which may contain copyrighted works) as he sees fit?

    [2] defending the right for a producer to restrict use of
    a data file which contain his copyrighted works as *he*
    sees fit?

    (The latter is covered somewhere in law; I'd have to look.
    Of course the law is an ass, and a rather slow, stubborn
    one at that; when the law was originally made, electronic
    duplication was at best a wet dream of Marconi, if that.)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #104392:
    for(int i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) sleep(0);
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  11. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    > wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 06:22:11 +0100
    > <3182816.FI2n75cBoy@schestowitz.com>:


    >> So we are still left with no solution. This renders part of the
    >> whole intellectual monopoly wet dream the moguls are having a tad
    >> obsolete, doesn't it?

    >
    > Depends on the problem, doesn't it? Are we:
    >
    > [1] defending the right for a consumer to use the data file (which
    > may contain copyrighted works) as he sees fit?
    >
    > [2] defending the right for a producer to restrict use of a data file
    > which contain his copyrighted works as *he* sees fit?


    Use and distribution are not the same, and even with distribution there
    are first-sale rights. If Intellectual Property truly is property, then
    once purchased the buyer should be allowed to do whatever he wants with
    it. Period.

    Look at that Universal case where they tried to claim *throwing away* a
    promo CD is illegal. It's perverse. This Intellectual Monopoly crap has
    to end. Now.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    21:29:55 up 137 days, 18:05, 5 users, load average: 0.20, 0.67, 0.41

  12. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer

    wrote
    on Tue, 06 May 2008 21:30:18 +0100
    :
    > Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
    >> wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 06:22:11 +0100
    >> <3182816.FI2n75cBoy@schestowitz.com>:

    >
    >>> So we are still left with no solution. This renders part of the
    >>> whole intellectual monopoly wet dream the moguls are having a tad
    >>> obsolete, doesn't it?

    >>
    >> Depends on the problem, doesn't it? Are we:
    >>
    >> [1] defending the right for a consumer to use the data file (which
    >> may contain copyrighted works) as he sees fit?
    >>
    >> [2] defending the right for a producer to restrict use of a data file
    >> which contain his copyrighted works as *he* sees fit?

    >
    > Use and distribution are not the same, and even with distribution there
    > are first-sale rights. If Intellectual Property truly is property, then
    > once purchased the buyer should be allowed to do whatever he wants with
    > it. Period.


    But what is the buyer buying? Certainly not the work
    proper; it is still owned by the owner (even the most
    diehard freeware/freemedia advocates have to concede
    that point!). At best, we're buying a license to play,
    with a convenient local duplicate of the finished work.

    I'll admit to some confusion on this point, and the RIAA
    does have a legit beef if the reports from Peru and China
    of illegal selling have merit (I can't say; I've never
    been either place). Of course DRM is a bludgeon where
    a surgical pick might be called for.

    There are also issues of fair market value. The discs
    might cost $0.10 each to manufacture, but are frequently
    sold for far above that price, especially for software.

    >
    > Look at that Universal case where they tried to claim *throwing away* a
    > promo CD is illegal. It's perverse. This Intellectual Monopoly crap has
    > to end. Now.
    >


    Would be nice; I'm not hopeful. Still, the RIAA is
    looking a bit like a bunch of idiotic thugs for harassing
    grandmothers (I suspect they let the kid play with their
    'puter and s/he set up a Kazaa-like distribution point,
    but would have to look) and claiming that even ripping a
    CD for one's *own personal convenience*, not offering it
    for sale or download, is patently illegal.

    Next thing they'll suggest we buy 1 disc per device.
    I have several CD/DVD players (one's a clock radio) and
    several more in computer hardware that can be used as such
    (my nx9010 does a very good job at playing DVD movies).

    Are they that hard up for cash?

    Assuming Congress has any spare cycles (there's some
    more pressing problems right now, like foreclosures, gas
    prices, good jobs, health costs, health insurance costs,
    food prices, maybe immigration, ...), one hopes for a
    modicum of sanity here, at some point. Maybe in 2009,
    if we're lucky.

    The only DRM solutions I can think of that might work at
    all -- and they wouldn't work well -- involve a server
    roundtrip, and assume the user a criminal even before
    he sticks the disc in. Even if one wants to establish
    auditing capability as opposed to prevention, one still
    has the little question as to when exactly the information
    of the user's usage habits vis-a-vis that disc are to be
    transmitted, and to whom. (Assuming the device bothers
    to keep it around at all; it's extra engineering effort
    to equip a "boom box" with such.)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    /dev/signature: Not a text file
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  13. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    ____/ Homer on Tuesday 06 May 2008 21:30 : \____

    > Look at that Universal case where they tried to claim *throwing away* a
    > promo CD is illegal.


    Got a link for this? I know the Prince story. Just imagine illegalising free
    distribution. It's akin to software patents and what Microsoft tries to do to
    the GPL.

    "Got a problem? Bribe some 'lobbyist'. Change the law to eradicate the
    problem."

    Welcome to a world of corruption -- a world where being able to compete makes
    you an outlaw.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | McDonald's does to diet what Microsoft does to PC's
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Swap: 1510068k total, 409008k used, 1101060k free, 54432k cached
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms

  14. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Tuesday 06 May 2008 17:11 : \____

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, banjo boy69
    >
    > wrote
    > on 06 May 2008 02:49:48 GMT
    > <481fc74c$0$22076$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org>:
    >> Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)
    >>
    >> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    >> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html
    >>
    >> Traits:
    >>
    >> * Nym shifting (see below)
    >> * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    >> * Homophobic
    >> * Racist
    >> * Habitual liar
    >> * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    >> * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

    >
    > Are you two related? :-P At least Moshe *tries* to be
    > relevant to COLA, or at least to competitors of Linux
    > which are frequently referenced therein.


    No, Gary Stewart is scum. There should be laws to imprison Munchkins like him.
    If you think he's bad in COLA, then you ought to see what that prick does
    behind the scene, so to speak.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder"
    http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    Cpu(s): 24.3%us, 3.6%sy, 1.0%ni, 66.5%id, 4.2%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.1%si, 0.0%st
    http://iuron.com - semantic engine to gather information

  15. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz

    wrote
    on Wed, 07 May 2008 02:19:08 +0100
    <1542751.WUhOO8lLZc@schestowitz.com>:
    > ____/ The Ghost In The Machine on Tuesday 06 May 2008 17:11 : \____
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, banjo boy69
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on 06 May 2008 02:49:48 GMT
    >> <481fc74c$0$22076$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org>:
    >>> Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)
    >>>
    >>> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    >>> http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html
    >>>
    >>> Traits:
    >>>
    >>> * Nym shifting (see below)
    >>> * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    >>> * Homophobic
    >>> * Racist
    >>> * Habitual liar
    >>> * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    >>> * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

    >>
    >> Are you two related? :-P At least Moshe *tries* to be
    >> relevant to COLA, or at least to competitors of Linux
    >> which are frequently referenced therein.

    >
    > No, Gary Stewart is scum. There should be laws to
    > imprison Munchkins like him. If you think he's bad
    > in COLA, then you ought to see what that prick does
    > behind the scene, so to speak.
    >


    Well, yes, and he does nymshift (if he is in fact Gary
    Stewart, a claim which I've no idea either way), but,
    annoying as he is, he doesn't paste the same message two
    dozen times (once per response). :-P

    Three times a day is probably enough (once in the morning,
    once at noontime, once in the evening).

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  16. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    > ____/ Homer on Tuesday 06 May 2008 21:30 : \____


    >> Look at that Universal case where they tried to claim *throwing
    >> away* a promo CD is illegal.

    >
    > Got a link for this?


    UMG Says Throwing Away Promo CDs is Illegal
    Posted by Fred von Lohmann

    In a brief filed in federal court yesterday, Universal Music Group (UMG)
    states that, when it comes to the millions of promotional CDs ("promo
    CDs") that it has sent out to music reviewers, radio stations, DJs, and
    other music industry insiders, throwing them away is "an unauthorized
    distribution" that violates copyright law. Yes, you read that right --
    if you've ever received a promo CD from UMG, and you don't still have
    it, UMG thinks you're a pirate.
    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/04...mo-cds-illegal

    The mind boggles.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    04:37:53 up 138 days, 1:13, 6 users, load average: 0.16, 0.30, 0.49

  17. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Homer

    wrote
    on Wed, 07 May 2008 04:38:05 +0100
    :
    > Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >> ____/ Homer on Tuesday 06 May 2008 21:30 : \____

    >
    >>> Look at that Universal case where they tried to claim *throwing
    >>> away* a promo CD is illegal.

    >>
    >> Got a link for this?

    >
    >
    > UMG Says Throwing Away Promo CDs is Illegal
    > Posted by Fred von Lohmann
    >
    > In a brief filed in federal court yesterday, Universal Music Group (UMG)
    > states that, when it comes to the millions of promotional CDs ("promo
    > CDs") that it has sent out to music reviewers, radio stations, DJs, and
    > other music industry insiders, throwing them away is "an unauthorized
    > distribution" that violates copyright law. Yes, you read that right --
    > if you've ever received a promo CD from UMG, and you don't still have
    > it, UMG thinks you're a pirate.
    >
    >
    > http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/04...mo-cds-illegal
    >
    > The mind boggles.
    >


    But the moguls profit. Bleah.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #1123133:
    void f(FILE * fptr, char *p) { fgets(p, sizeof(p), fptr); }
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

  18. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    ____/ Homer on Wednesday 07 May 2008 04:38 : \____

    > Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
    >> ____/ Homer on Tuesday 06 May 2008 21:30 : \____

    >
    >>> Look at that Universal case where they tried to claim *throwing
    >>> away* a promo CD is illegal.

    >>
    >> Got a link for this?

    >
    >
    > UMG Says Throwing Away Promo CDs is Illegal
    > Posted by Fred von Lohmann
    >
    > In a brief filed in federal court yesterday, Universal Music Group (UMG)
    > states that, when it comes to the millions of promotional CDs ("promo
    > CDs") that it has sent out to music reviewers, radio stations, DJs, and
    > other music industry insiders, throwing them away is "an unauthorized
    > distribution" that violates copyright law. Yes, you read that right --
    > if you've ever received a promo CD from UMG, and you don't still have
    > it, UMG thinks you're a pirate.
    ^^^^^^

    Did they serve swords with their CDs?


    >

    >
    > http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/04...mo-cds-illegal
    >
    > The mind boggles.
    >


    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Run a Linux server, sit on your hands all day
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    09:05:02 up 22 days, 7:17, 5 users, load average: 1.13, 1.51, 1.77
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project

  19. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (in real life Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

  20. Re: [News] Closed Systems Called Dangerous by Net Expert

    In article ,
    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > > That's not paying people for their work, it's paying
    > > them because they claim ownership of the *memory* of an original event.
    > > Facsimiles can not be property, in any sense other than material costs,
    > > and therefore those who distribute facsimiles should neither be able to
    > > claim exclusivity, nor charge more than material costs.

    >
    > I'll have to think about it. In an ideal world the above
    > would indeed be true, except for one small caveat, which
    > is indeed small with digital media: duplication costs.
    > (Something has to power the DVD burner.)
    >
    > In practice, I suspect that we pay the amount that we pay
    > because we think the facsimile is worth the amount we pay
    > for it, and *that* is because the moguls either have set
    > expectations, or have set up conditions where one has a
    > set of expectations -- $19.95 for a, say, Metallica album,
    > as opposed to the duplication+material cost of maybe
    > $0.10-$0.15.


    So if someone spends $100 million to make a movie, and wants to release
    it on DVD, they should not be allowed to charge more than a few cents
    per DVD, and anyone should be able to make copies of that DVD?

    Yeah, that's going to work out real well...


    --
    --Tim Smith

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