1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity - Linux

This is a discussion on 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity - Linux ; On 2007-09-24, Sir Michael Clayton wrote: > > "chrisv" wrote in message > news:clhff3ppr5ffpsaaevfudl9cdeg99eavar@4ax.com... >> wjp wrote: >> >>>I have the CD's/DVD's for at least ten various distributions. I >>>installed Debian 4.0R1 because I assumed (yes, I do that too, ...

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Thread: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

  1. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    On 2007-09-24, Sir Michael Clayton wrote:
    >
    > "chrisv" wrote in message
    > news:clhff3ppr5ffpsaaevfudl9cdeg99eavar@4ax.com...
    >> wjp wrote:
    >>
    >>>I have the CD's/DVD's for at least ten various distributions. I
    >>>installed Debian 4.0R1 because I assumed (yes, I do that too, Roy),
    >>>that, since it was the latest and greatest, it would be the most usable
    >>>of all. Okay, I made a mistake. Now, back to the drawing board.
    >>>
    >>>I've accumulated/home-built seven PC's - all of them have various
    >>>distributions of Linux installed, as a minimum.

    >>
    >> You've been interested in Linux for some time, yet you have not groked
    >> that there are distros that are easier to use (Mepis, Ubuntu, PCLOS),
    >> and distros that are better-left to those with more experience (Slack,
    >> Debian, Gentoo)?

    >
    > Ladies and Gentlemen, it's time to do the Distro Shuffle!!!


    So would you recommend that Granny use one of the
    server versions of Windows, or better yet something
    like NT 3.51?

    If the standard is "any old version of X" then we
    can cut it both ways.

    [deletia]


    --
    If you think that an 80G disk can hold HUNDRENDS of |||
    hours of DV video then you obviously haven't used iMovie either. / | \

  2. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having toHandle Complexity

    On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:12:32 +0000, Linonut wrote:

    > After takin' a swig o' grog, wjp belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >
    >> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:13:52 GMT, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>>After takin' a swig o' grog, wjp belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>>
    >>>> Bill Powell
    >>>> Systems Managemnt Analyst
    >>>> MSgt USAF, Ret (1979)
    >>>> GS-12 - USA, Ret (1996)

    >>
    >> My signature is not a fake. You sir, might try opening up your mind a
    >> bit, and perhaps, like Roy, take the posts for what they're worth,
    >> rather than immediately assuming the worst.

    >
    > It doesn't matter. No one makes an official signature, at least a
    > long-lived one, and then leaves a spelling error like that in it.
    > Not believable, not even if I were Navy.
    >


    Linonut, you're not exactly giving advocacy a helping hand here, the guy
    seems genuine. I'd say the missing "e" looks more like when I hit a key
    too lightly.

    Search some of the posts he's made in Google.

    Not retired but I did do Navy service.

    wjp, try Ubuntu, my wife and I are using it, very good maybe the best and
    I've tried many since 1994, as I recall.

    This post is my opinin. <== not an official sig !!

    --
    // This is my opinion.

  3. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    On Sep 24, 7:11 pm, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    > On 2007-09-24, Sir Michael Clayton wrote:
    > > "Roy Schestowitz" wrote in message
    > >news:2294287.n5kFjfAd9x@schestowitz.com...
    > >>I has just occurred to me that Windows was left somewhat behind in the
    > >>'dark
    > >> ages' of the CLI.

    >
    > > And it just occurred to me that Roy Schestowitz is perhaps the biggest
    > > idiot
    > > on the planet.

    >
    > >> For example, in order to obtain the MAC address of a network
    > >> device in Linux, one just need to click on buttons and follow the GUIs.
    > >> Nice
    > >> and easy, right?

    >
    > > So it's just like the way that Windows has done it for say... about 15
    > > years
    > > now.

    >
    > Windows hasn't done anything consistently for that long.
    > It's like it's against corporate policy or something.


    Yeah right. Like linux is consistent.


    > [deletia]
    >
    > The tricky part of "just find it in the control panel" of course
    > is
    > managing to find the control panel


    Since "Control Panel" is fixed directly on the "Start Menu" this super
    complicated sequence of steps would be:

    Start -> Control Panel

    Oh yes. This was oh so very difficult.


    > and then once there managing to
    > find the relevant applet.


    From control panel the user would have to click on the icon labled "Network
    Connections."

    If you find this too difficult to follow and understand then I suggest that
    you are far too stupid for computers. Try a career in ditch-digging or
    flipping burgers.


    > XP and Vista both tend to play "hide the
    > hamster" with anything of interest.


    "Hide the hamster" sounds like some sick game you and Marti (mlst2) like to
    play together.




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  4. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    ____/ Kelsey Bjarnason on Monday 24 September 2007 17:53 : \____

    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:58:31 -0700, John Bailo, Texeme.Construct wrote:
    >
    >> On Sep 22, 10:41 pm, Roy Schestowitz
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> In Windows, on the other hand, one needs to be a command-line Guru,
    >>> realising that to fetch _an address_, one needs to click on Start (start
    >>> /what/? Isn't

    >>
    >> I was recently amazed to "find" that Windows 2000 server has a "grep".

    >
    > It doesn't.
    >
    >> It's called find.

    >
    > It isn't.
    >
    >> As in, I wanted to find activity on a port so I did
    >>
    >> netstat -ap tcp | find "1099"

    >
    > Now try a regular expression. Doesn't work. find is a simple string
    > matcher, not a grep.


    That's why sysadmins install cygwin.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | "How do I set my laser printer on stun?"
    http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    run-level 2 2007-09-10 01:53 last=
    http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine

  5. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ wjp on Monday 24 September 2007 00:24 : \____
    >
    >> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 06:41:53 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I has just occurred to me that Windows was left somewhat behind in the 'dark
    >>>ages' of the CLI. For example, in order to obtain the MAC address of a
    >>>network device in Linux, one just need to click on buttons and follow the
    >>>GUIs. Nice and easy, right?
    >>>

    >> //snipped for brevity//
    >>
    >> Roy, I truly admire all the work you do for Linux Advocacy, however, I
    >> am in a state of frustration right at the present over a couple of Linux
    >> complexity's that I find unacceptable.
    >>
    >> I just installed Debian 4.0R1 on this machine, (though I am writing this
    >> in Windows XP - Forte Agent). I installed Pan so that I could read the
    >> Linux newsgroups, and it downloaded the last 5 days of messages with no
    >> problem.
    >>
    >> In one of the messages, a You-Tube url was given. I clicked on the
    >> reference, and it took me to the You-Tube site. However, it would not
    >> play the movie (in Epiphany) because it said that I did not have the
    >> latest Flash player. I can understand that. I went to the reference
    >> and downloaded the tar-gz file, then opened the file and it created a
    >> folder with three files in it.

    >
    > To be fair, on a fresh installation of Windows, this would not have worked
    > either. With IE, the user would be referred to Adobe's Web site (or otherwise
    > it might have to be common knowledge, possibly a shout to the next-door
    > neighbour) and then follow what has become a /familiar/ Windows installation
    > procedure (lest we forget that there has been some consistency since Windows
    > 3, so we take difficulty -- or lack thereof -- for granted). Firefox on
    > Windows tends to suggest that the user downloads plugins and it has a
    > user-friendly way of doing this.
    >
    > Now, at this point, it ought to be mentioned that Debian was never optimised to
    > serve our less computer savvy relatives and friends.


    Sorry Roy, but I use debian, and I installed flash just a couple of days
    ago, you do:

    apt-get install flash-installer

    and then okay a second question (which is have you already downloaded
    the flash binary, and if not, it gets it for you).

    And lo, you have flash installed.

    It is trivial in the extreme.


    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  6. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    Roy Schestowitz espoused:
    > ____/ Linonut on Monday 24 September 2007 12:12 : \____
    >
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, wjp belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:13:52 GMT, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>After takin' a swig o' grog, wjp belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bill Powell
    >>>>> Systems Managemnt Analyst
    >>>>> MSgt USAF, Ret (1979)
    >>>>> GS-12 - USA, Ret (1996)
    >>>
    >>> My signature is not a fake. You sir, might try opening up your mind a
    >>> bit, and perhaps, like Roy, take the posts for what they're worth,
    >>> rather than immediately assuming the worst.

    >>
    >> It doesn't matter. No one makes an official signature, at least a
    >> long-lived one, and then leaves a spelling error like that in it.
    >> Not believable, not even if I were Navy.

    >
    > Don't know if it's a waterskidoo-like 'persona', but some people write their
    > signature manually, esp. if they do not post regularly.
    >
    > One of the _greatest_ harms of newsgroup trolls is that they lead to such
    > suspicion and discrimination against new posters (prejudice). It has to be
    > understood that many new names are being used to just tease, so it's hard to
    > tell apart.
    >


    It's a troll. If they'd really been using debian, then they'd know how
    amazingly easy it is to install flash on a debian machine. Say hi to
    Gary, everyone!

    --
    | Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
    | Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
    | Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
    | My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |

  7. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    After takin' a swig o' grog, jebblue belched out this bit o' wisdom:

    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:12:32 +0000, Linonut wrote:
    >
    > Linonut, you're not exactly giving advocacy a helping hand here, the guy
    > seems genuine. I'd say the missing "e" looks more like when I hit a key
    > too lightly.


    "Seems genuine."

    > Search some of the posts he's made in Google.


    I can't be bothered. I really don't care that much, anyway. And you
    could be part of his game (if that's what it is), too.

    --
    Tux rox!

  8. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having toHandle Complexity

    On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:26:10 +0000, jebblue wrote:

    > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:12:32 +0000, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> After takin' a swig o' grog, wjp belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:13:52 GMT, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>After takin' a swig o' grog, wjp belched out this bit o' wisdom:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bill Powell
    >>>>> Systems Managemnt Analyst
    >>>>> MSgt USAF, Ret (1979)
    >>>>> GS-12 - USA, Ret (1996)
    >>>
    >>> My signature is not a fake. You sir, might try opening up your mind a
    >>> bit, and perhaps, like Roy, take the posts for what they're worth,
    >>> rather than immediately assuming the worst.

    >>
    >> It doesn't matter. No one makes an official signature, at least a
    >> long-lived one, and then leaves a spelling error like that in it.
    >> Not believable, not even if I were Navy.
    >>

    >
    > Linonut, you're not exactly giving advocacy a helping hand here, the guy
    > seems genuine. I'd say the missing "e" looks more like when I hit a key
    > too lightly.
    >
    > Search some of the posts he's made in Google.
    >
    > Not retired but I did do Navy service.
    >
    > wjp, try Ubuntu, my wife and I are using it, very good maybe the best and
    > I've tried many since 1994, as I recall.
    >
    > This post is my opinin. <== not an official sig !!
    >


    Thanks, jebblue, I appreciate the kind response. I have Ubuntu 7.04
    installed on my wife's box, but, I wanted to branch out and try something
    new. I now know, much to my chagrin, that it ain't that easy.

    I also have Mandrive 2007S installed on the computer out in the garage,
    however, it has been so hot down here in Alabama for the past few months,
    I've not hardly booted that machine at all - especially during the day.

    Overall, I think that my main problem is that I still rely too heavily on
    Microsoft - not being willing to make a clear-cut jump into Linux and
    plunge into learning (ie: reading) the in's and out's. If anything, the
    responses to my initial post clearly indicate that I need to do some heavy
    reading and not jump into Advocacy before knowing, for sure, what I'm
    talking about.

    Perhaps it best if I go back into "lurk" mode, and hold on to my opinions
    until I can base them on firm knowledge, rather than shot-gunned remarks
    due to frustration.

    I want to thank those of you who provided helpful hints. And for those
    who think I'm a troll, well, I can only repeat what I said before:

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
    proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
    everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to
    investigation." (Attributed to Herbert Spencer)

    Have a great day, everyone.
    Bill Powell

    --
    Former Systems Management Analyst
    Presently - doing my best to keep my fishing line in the water.
    Computers? Just a hobby.

  9. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having toHandle Complexity

    On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:21:11 -0500, chrisv wrote:

    > wjp wrote:
    >
    >>I have the CD's/DVD's for at least ten various distributions. I
    >>installed Debian 4.0R1 because I assumed (yes, I do that too, Roy),
    >>that, since it was the latest and greatest, it would be the most usable
    >>of all. Okay, I made a mistake. Now, back to the drawing board.
    >>
    >>I've accumulated/home-built seven PC's - all of them have various
    >>distributions of Linux installed, as a minimum.

    >
    > You've been interested in Linux for some time, yet you have not groked
    > that there are distros that are easier to use (Mepis, Ubuntu, PCLOS),
    > and distros that are better-left to those with more experience (Slack,
    > Debian, Gentoo)?
    >
    > I recommend PCLOS. Things like u-tube videos work "right out of the
    > box".


    Yes, there are distros easier to use, however, the choice was mine to try
    Debian, since most of the others you mentioned are based on Debian. I
    have Mepis, Ubuntu and PCLOS distros, but, chose Debian because I had
    downloaded the four DVD's which contain a bunch of programs. My mistake,
    I guess.

    Bill P.

  10. Re: 1337 Users Prefer Windows... Because of the Thrill of Having to Handle Complexity

    On Sep 24, 5:47 pm, Roy Schestowitz
    wrote:
    > ____/ Kelsey Bjarnason on Monday 24 September 2007 17:53 : \____


    > > Now try a regular expression. Doesn't work. findis a simple string
    > > matcher, not a grep.

    >
    > That's why sysadmins install cygwin.

    http://iuron.com- help build a non-profit search engine

    And PSTools


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