6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7 - Linux

This is a discussion on 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7 - Linux ; This story barely made it into COLA about six months back---as an Inquirer article posted by [H]omer. http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9043359 > Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7 > Smaller is better for adding virtualization to the OS, says analyst > ...

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Thread: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

  1. 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    This story barely made it into COLA about six months back---as an
    Inquirer article posted by [H]omer.

    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9043359

    > Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7
    > Smaller is better for adding virtualization to the OS, says analyst
    > Gregg Keizer
    > October 19, 2007 (Computerworld) -- Microsoft has 200 programmers working on slimming down the Windows kernel for the next version of the operating system, a company engineer revealed in a presentation last weekend at the University of Illinois.
    >
    > "A lot of people think of Windows as this really large, bloated operating system, and that may be a fair characterization, I have to admit," said Eric Traut, who holds the title of distinguished engineer at Microsoft. "[So] we created what we call MinWin. It's still bigger than I'd like it to be, but we've taken a shot at really stripping out all of the layers above and making sure that we had a clean architectural layer there."


    > MinWin is so small that it lacks a graphical subsystem. When Traut booted MinWin, for example, its start-up screen showed the standard Windows flag logo, but the design was built from ASCII characters, a technique discarded decades ago by everyone except spammers.
    >
    > The microkernel will be used only internally and won't, as Traut put it, be "productized." Instead, it will be the basis of all upcoming versions of Windows, including the next-generation edition now saddled with the code name Windows 7. Microsoft has given out almost no information about that operating system other than a delivery timeline that puts its final release in 2010.


  2. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    ____/ Matt on Saturday 12 April 2008 07:28 : \____

    > This story barely made it into COLA about six months back---as an
    > Inquirer article posted by [H]omer.
    >
    >

    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9043359
    >
    >> Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7
    >> Smaller is better for adding virtualization to the OS, says analyst
    >> Gregg Keizer
    >> October 19, 2007 (Computerworld) -- Microsoft has 200 programmers working on
    >> slimming down the Windows kernel for the next version of the operating
    >> system, a company engineer revealed in a presentation last weekend at the
    >> University of Illinois.
    >>
    >> "A lot of people think of Windows as this really large, bloated operating
    >> system, and that may be a fair characterization, I have to admit," said Eric
    >> Traut, who holds the title of distinguished engineer at Microsoft. "[So] we
    >> created what we call MinWin. It's still bigger than I'd like it to be, but
    >> we've taken a shot at really stripping out all of the layers above and
    >> making sure that we had a clean architectural layer there."

    >
    >> MinWin is so small that it lacks a graphical subsystem. When Traut booted
    >> MinWin, for example, its start-up screen showed the standard Windows flag
    >> logo, but the design was built from ASCII characters, a technique discarded
    >> decades ago by everyone except spammers.
    >>
    >> The microkernel will be used only internally and won't, as Traut put it, be
    >> "productized." Instead, it will be the basis of all upcoming versions of
    >> Windows, including the next-generation edition now saddled with the code
    >> name Windows 7. Microsoft has given out almost no information about that
    >> operating system other than a delivery timeline that puts its final release
    >> in 2010.


    It's just vapourware Microsoft has been using to freeze the market for a while.
    They also have that chant about a Windows Mobile derivative that acts
    similarly but all the good Windows developers appear to have left. Microsoft
    just promises heaven and will deliver nothing substantial.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    "One person in Helsinki can quickly write the core of a sophisticated operating
    system."
    --John Warden, lead attorney Microsoft

  3. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Matt wrote:

    > This story barely made it into COLA about six months back---as an
    > Inquirer article posted by [H]omer.
    >
    >

    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9043359

    Could it be this is a linux advocacy group, and not a Microsoft advocacy
    group, so in in a linux advocacy group people post about..

    Drum roll..........................

    they post about linux..

    Jem..

  4. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    * Matt peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > This story barely made it into COLA about six months back---as an
    > Inquirer article posted by [H]omer.
    >
    > http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9043359
    >
    >> "A lot of people think of Windows as this really large, bloated
    >> operating system, and that may be a fair characterization, I have to
    >> admit," said Eric Traut, who holds the title of distinguished
    >> engineer at Microsoft. "[So] we created what we call MinWin. It's
    >> still bigger than I'd like it to be, but we've taken a shot at really
    >> stripping out all of the layers above and making sure that we had a
    >> clean architectural layer there."


    Does he mean that they are doing a redesign, or just an ad hoc
    refactoring?

    Of course, they'll still have the apps to redesign/refactor.

    --
    Microsoft is not about greed. It's about innovation and fairness.
    -- Bill Gates

  5. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:


    > Windows software design is just far too convoluted.


    Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    ____/ Linonut on Saturday 12 April 2008 14:45 : \____

    > * Matt peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> This story barely made it into COLA about six months back---as an
    >> Inquirer article posted by [H]omer.
    >>
    >>

    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9043359
    >>
    >>> "A lot of people think of Windows as this really large, bloated
    >>> operating system, and that may be a fair characterization, I have to
    >>> admit," said Eric Traut, who holds the title of distinguished
    >>> engineer at Microsoft. "[So] we created what we call MinWin. It's
    >>> still bigger than I'd like it to be, but we've taken a shot at really
    >>> stripping out all of the layers above and making sure that we had a
    >>> clean architectural layer there."

    >
    > Does he mean that they are doing a redesign, or just an ad hoc
    > refactoring?
    >
    > Of course, they'll still have the apps to redesign/refactor.


    Here's what they do here (a friend E-mailed me this some hours ago):

    "In the face of strong competition, Evangelism's focus may shift immediately to
    the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism
    Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X."

    * * * * * * * * * * * * --- Microsoft, internal document
    * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf


    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Linux: mint and self-contained 'out of the box'
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

  7. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    ____/ Homer on Saturday 12 April 2008 16:08 : \____

    > "We don't do a new version to fix bugs. We don't. Not enough people
    > would buy it." ~ Gates
    >
    > http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html


    Good find! Handy.

    --
    ~~ Best of wishes

    Roy S. Schestowitz | Linux: mint and self-contained 'out of the box'
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

  8. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.

    >
    > Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >


    Oh yeah? Are you able to compare linux source code to windows source code???
    I thought not...

    --

    Jerry McBride (jmcbride@mail-on.us)

  9. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:12:23 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.

    >
    > Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................


    Coming from a Windoze use, this is quite a statement.............





    --
    #1 Offishul Ruiner of Usenet, March 2007
    #1 Usenet Asshole, March 2007
    #1 Bartlo Pset, March 13-24 2007
    #10 Most hated Usenetizen of all time
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
    COOSN-266-06-25794



  10. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:10:26 -0400, Jerry McBride wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.

    >>
    >> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>

    >
    > Oh yeah? Are you able to compare linux source code to windows source code???
    > I thought not...


    You seem to be obsessed with source code Jerry.
    Don't you understand that 99.99999 percent of the population doesn't give
    two ****s about Linux source code.

    If they did, Linux wouldn't be languishing at 0.6 percent of the desktop.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  11. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Jerry McBride wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.

    >>
    >> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>

    >
    > Oh yeah? Are you able to compare linux source code to windows source
    > code??? I thought not...


    Why do you think that's essential???



  12. Microsoft goes back to the future with 'leaner' kernel ..

    On 12 Apr, 19:45, "chrisv" wrote:
    > Oh yeah? Are you able to compare linux source code to windows source code??? I thought not...


    > Why do you think that's essential???


    Having spend decades playing mix-and-match with the OS and application
    code, they are now going back to the future, only it's the future from
    1998. They must figure the Vindows is so embedded in the market place
    that they now have no more need for such trickery.

    "MinWin is so small that it lacks a graphical subsystem. When Traut
    booted MinWin, for example, its start-up screen showed the standard
    Windows flag logo, but the design was built from ASCII characters, a
    technique discarded decades ago by everyone except spammers"




  13. Re: Microsoft goes back to the future with 'leaner' kernel ..

    Doug Mentohl wrote:

    > "MinWin is so small that it lacks a graphical subsystem. When
    > Traut booted MinWin, for example, its start-up screen showed
    > the standard Windows flag logo, but the design was built from
    > ASCII characters, a technique discarded decades ago by
    > everyone except spammers"


    Do you mean that just only now, they have discovered the value of
    the command line?

    --
    HPT

  14. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:02:13 -0400, Fred Williams wrote:

    > On Saturday 12 April 2008 11:12, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.

    >>
    >> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>

    >
    > What a load of crap. Windows is far more convoluted because they have
    > all this deception, and hidden commercial agendas, to maintain. Linux
    > is far less convoluted and open, because it's free and that means it's
    > free to be functional, without convolutions.


    Sure....
    That's why Linux has 600+ different distributions.
    That's why Linux has 10 different sound systems.
    That's why Linux has at least 5 different package managers.

    Would you like me to continue?

    Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted.
    Too many Indians and not enough Chiefs.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  15. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > Homer on Saturday :
    >
    >> "We don't do a new version to fix bugs. We don't. Not enough
    >> people would buy it." ~ Gates
    >>
    >> http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html

    >
    > Good find! Handy.


    Yes, a very interesting read. I found this bit of interest:

    FOCUS: But on the other hand - you would say: Okay, folks, if
    you don't like these new features, stay with the old version, and
    keep the bugs?

    Gates: No! We have lots and lots of competitors. The new version
    - it's not there to fix bugs. That's not the reason we come up
    with a new version.

    FOCUS: But there are bugs an any version which people would
    really like to have fixed.

    Gates: No! There are no significant bugs in our released
    software that any significant number of users want fixed.

    FOCUS: Oh, my God. I always get mad at my computer if MS Word
    swallows the page numbers of a document which I printed a couple
    of times with page numbers. If I complain to anybody they say
    "Well, upgrade from version 5.11 to 6.0".

    Gates: No! If you really think there's a bug you should report a
    bug. Maybe you're not using it properly. Have you ever considered
    that?

    FOCUS: Yeah, I did...

    Gates: It turns out Luddites don't know how to use software
    properly, so you should look into that. -- The reason we come up
    with new versions is not to fix bugs. It's absolutely not. It's
    the stupidest reason to buy a new version I ever heard. When we
    do a new version we put in lots of new things that people are
    asking for. And so, in no sense, is stability a reason to move to
    a new version. It's never a reason.
    So then, the user who complains of bugs is considered a Luddite
    who doesn't know how to use the software properly? Interesting ....

    Also the reason for not upgrading is stability? Well,
    irregardless of what the corporate magnate said, there ARE those
    who prefer stability to the myriads of viruses, root kits,
    spywares, etc. that can steal credit card numbers, personal
    information, financial and medical records to name a few.

    Yes, this was an interesting find.

    --
    HPT

  16. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7


    "Moshe Goldfarb" wrote in message
    news:1lcolwizoq2dt.ucrwwweeqwla$.dlg@40tude.net...
    > On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:02:13 -0400, Fred Williams wrote:
    >
    >> On Saturday 12 April 2008 11:12, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.
    >>>
    >>> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>>

    >>
    >> What a load of crap. Windows is far more convoluted because they
    >> have
    >> all this deception, and hidden commercial agendas, to maintain. Linux
    >> is far less convoluted and open, because it's free and that means it's
    >> free to be functional, without convolutions.

    >
    > Sure....
    > That's why Linux has 600+ different distributions.
    > That's why Linux has 10 different sound systems.
    > That's why Linux has at least 5 different package managers.


    Sure beats WeSaySo Corp (M$).

    > Would you like me to continue?


    Not particularily, but I am sure you will.

    > Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted.
    > Too many Indians and not enough Chiefs.


    Indians do the work.

    M$ is best compared to too many chiefs. 6 years for Vista...whew. What a
    waste.



  17. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7


    >
    > Sure....
    > That's why Linux has 600+ different distributions.



    So what?




    > That's why Linux has 10 different sound systems.




    How many different ones can you find for windows machines?




    > That's why Linux has at least 5 different package managers.



    And you can, if you want use any or none of them.
    How many different places can you go to get Windows programs?


    >
    > Would you like me to continue?




    You could but what difference does it make? Don't like it don't use it.


    >
    > Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted.
    > Too many Indians and not enough Chiefs.
    >
    >
    >


    So what? Personally and many that I know don't like just one choice in
    anything we do.
    caver1

  18. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:20:39 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:02:13 -0400, Fred Williams wrote:
    >
    >> On Saturday 12 April 2008 11:12, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.
    >>>
    >>> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>>

    >>
    >> What a load of crap. Windows is far more convoluted because they have
    >> all this deception, and hidden commercial agendas, to maintain. Linux
    >> is far less convoluted and open, because it's free and that means it's
    >> free to be functional, without convolutions.

    >
    > Sure....
    > That's why Linux has 600+ different distributions.
    > That's why Linux has 10 different sound systems.
    > That's why Linux has at least 5 different package managers.
    >
    > Would you like me to continue?


    Does it matter to you what others like, no.

    > Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted.


    You never had a point.

    > Too many Indians and not enough Chiefs.


    One word, Vista.

    Oh and don't forget the ensuing laughter:

    bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahah




    --
    #1 Offishul Ruiner of Usenet, March 2007
    #1 Usenet Asshole, March 2007
    #1 Bartlo Pset, March 13-24 2007
    #10 Most hated Usenetizen of all time
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
    COOSN-266-06-25794



  19. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Jerry McBride wrote:
    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.

    >> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>

    >
    > Oh yeah? Are you able to compare linux source code to windows source code???
    > I thought not...



    Maybe part of the Windows 7 design is to give MS the option to turn
    their OS to FOSS five to ten years from now when they can no longer sell
    it---so they can eventually transform into something like Novell or Red
    Hat or Canonical---but with Windows instead of Linux.

  20. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Canuck57 wrote:

    > M$ is best compared to too many chiefs. *6 years for Vista...whew. *What a
    > waste.


    Amazing, isn't it? Micro$haft is flailing.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

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