6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7 - Linux

This is a discussion on 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7 - Linux ; The Ghost In The Machine wrote: >>> It's more comparable to something like the GTK toolkit. >> >> GTK+ tries to work on Windows, Mac, and Linux, making it a more complete >> cross-platform system, unlike Cygwin, which is no ...

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Thread: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

  1. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    >>> It's more comparable to something like the GTK toolkit.

    >>
    >> GTK+ tries to work on Windows, Mac, and Linux, making it a more complete
    >> cross-platform system, unlike Cygwin, which is no good for Mac so far.

    >
    > Mac wouldn't need it unless you're discussing OS 9 or even earlier.
    > It is, after all, BSD-based. ;-)


    Huh? Are you saying Mac runs an X server? I understand Cygwin can run
    an X server, but I don't know whether it's practical.

  2. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:43:00 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    >


    You're clearly a typical Windows user. You don't have a clue about
    computers which is why you find Linux so scary.

    Bill Gates' semen must have nicotine in it because you can't seem to take
    his dick outta your mouth.

  3. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:20:39 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:02:13 -0400, Fred Williams wrote:
    >
    >> On Saturday 12 April 2008 11:12, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:08:49 +0100, Homer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Windows software design is just far too convoluted.
    >>>
    >>> Coming from a Linux user this is quite a statement..................
    >>>
    >>>

    >> What a load of crap. Windows is far more convoluted because
    >> they have
    >> all this deception, and hidden commercial agendas, to maintain. Linux
    >> is far less convoluted and open, because it's free and that means it's
    >> free to be functional, without convolutions.

    >
    > Sure....
    > That's why Linux has 600+ different distributions. That's why Linux has
    > 10 different sound systems. That's why Linux has at least 5 different
    > package managers.
    >
    > Would you like me to continue?
    >
    > Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and not
    > enough Chiefs.



    Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice, eh?



  4. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:28:40 +0000, Canuck57 wrote:

    >
    > M$ is best compared to too many chiefs. 6 years for Vista...whew. What
    > a waste.


    It took so long because Microsoft wanted to rip off Linux by making 30
    different versions of Vista to choose from. Naturally Moshe has a system
    partitioned to allow him to boot into each version depending on the day
    of the month.

  5. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Little Billy wrote:
    >>> Sure you might get 1 nut out of 10,000 buyers for whom this might be
    >>> an important factor.
    >>> However the 9,999 buyers could car less.

    >>
    >> Car - less...A Spanish victim of auto-theft.

    >
    > You ever hear of Insurance? Or was that clunker of yours too cheap to
    > insure? lol Well at least they didn't steal your 386 PC, you can
    > still run Linux.


    If they do steal the 386 you can always run Linux on a Commodore PET.

    --
    http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
    - Personalised Desktop Computers



  6. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Frank Stallone wrote:

    >> Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and not
    >> enough Chiefs.

    >
    >
    > Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice, eh?


    New day, same old FUD. As I've said before, the only people who seem worried
    about choice in Linux are those who don't use it.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  7. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:38:47 -0500, RonB wrote:

    > Frank Stallone wrote:
    >
    >>> Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and not
    >>> enough Chiefs.

    >>
    >>
    >> Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice, eh?

    >
    > New day, same old FUD. As I've said before, the only people who seem worried
    > about choice in Linux are those who don't use it.


    Obviously the current method of "freedom of choice" is not working.
    Linux at 0.6 percent of the desktop market after 10+ years is totally
    pathetic.

    So, you Linux loons have two choices.

    1. Keep churning out one defective distribution after another.
    2. Figure out what is wrong with Linux and why average people are willing
    to pay for Windows rather than use Linux and fix the problem with a
    distribution that actually, totally, completely works.

    The ball is in your court.
    And in fact it has been for the past 10+ years.
    The problem is, you Linux boobs hide behind the freedom of choice flag and
    don't realize that choice isn't really good when all the choices suck at
    the basic level.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  8. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:01:15 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:38:47 -0500, RonB wrote:
    >
    >> Frank Stallone wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and not
    >>>> enough Chiefs.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice, eh?

    >>
    >> New day, same old FUD. As I've said before, the only people who seem
    >> worried about choice in Linux are those who don't use it.

    >
    > Obviously the current method of "freedom of choice" is not working.
    > Linux at 0.6 percent of the desktop market after 10+ years is totally
    > pathetic.


    Around .6% is great considering how many people don't know what Linux is,
    considering the network effects of the the installed Windows base, and
    its associated inertia, and the herd mentality of people in general.

    >
    > So, you Linux loons have two choices.


    .... talking to your self again?

    >
    > 1. Keep churning out one defective distribution after another.


    Even is some are defective, so what? The top contenders are at least as
    reliable as Windows.

    2. Figure
    > out what is wrong with Linux and why average people are willing to pay
    > for Windows rather than use Linux and fix the problem with a
    > distribution that actually, totally, completely works.


    I have been telling you the main reasons for the low Linux adoption
    rate... network effects, inertia and herd mentality.

    >
    > The ball is in your court.
    > And in fact it has been for the past 10+ years. The problem is, you
    > Linux boobs hide behind the freedom of choice flag and don't realize
    > that choice isn't really good when all the choices suck at the basic
    > level.


    If the choices suck, why do you and your family use Linux?

    --
    Rick

  9. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    Rick wrote:
    > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:01:15 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:38:47 -0500, RonB wrote:
    >>
    >>> Frank Stallone wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and
    >>>>> not enough Chiefs.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice,
    >>>> eh?
    >>>
    >>> New day, same old FUD. As I've said before, the only people who seem
    >>> worried about choice in Linux are those who don't use it.

    >>
    >> Obviously the current method of "freedom of choice" is not working.
    >> Linux at 0.6 percent of the desktop market after 10+ years is totally
    >> pathetic.

    >
    > Around .6% is great considering how many people don't know what Linux
    > is, considering the network effects of the the installed Windows
    > base, and its associated inertia, and the herd mentality of people in
    > general.


    If people didn't know what linux is already, it might have been considerably
    higher.

    >
    >>
    >> So, you Linux loons have two choices.

    >
    > ... talking to your self again?
    >
    >>
    >> 1. Keep churning out one defective distribution after another.

    >
    > Even is some are defective, so what? The top contenders are at least
    > as reliable as Windows.


    What a fantastic endorsement. "Use linux: it's at least as reliable as
    Windows."

    >
    > 2. Figure
    >> out what is wrong with Linux and why average people are willing to
    >> pay for Windows rather than use Linux and fix the problem with a
    >> distribution that actually, totally, completely works.

    >
    > I have been telling you the main reasons for the low Linux adoption
    > rate... network effects, inertia and herd mentality.


    You left out /Familiarity/

    >
    >>
    >> The ball is in your court.
    >> And in fact it has been for the past 10+ years. The problem is, you
    >> Linux boobs hide behind the freedom of choice flag and don't realize
    >> that choice isn't really good when all the choices suck at the basic
    >> level.

    >
    > If the choices suck, why do you and your family use Linux?




  10. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    "Rick" stated in post
    I9mdnUlG98KDxZjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@supernews.com on 4/15/08 6:36 PM:

    > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:01:15 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:38:47 -0500, RonB wrote:
    >>
    >>> Frank Stallone wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>> Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and not
    >>>>> enough Chiefs.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice, eh?
    >>>
    >>> New day, same old FUD. As I've said before, the only people who seem
    >>> worried about choice in Linux are those who don't use it.

    >>
    >> Obviously the current method of "freedom of choice" is not working.
    >> Linux at 0.6 percent of the desktop market after 10+ years is totally
    >> pathetic.

    >
    > Around .6% is great considering how many people don't know what Linux is,


    You mean other than the millions you talked about elsewhere, right?

    > considering the network effects of the the installed Windows base, and
    > its associated inertia, and the herd mentality of people in general.


    Ah, your mantra. How funny.

    --
    I am one of only .3% of people who have avoided becoming a statistic.





  11. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:49:38 -0700, Damian wrote:

    > Rick wrote:
    >> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:01:15 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:38:47 -0500, RonB wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Frank Stallone wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Point is, that is why Linux is convoluted. Too many Indians and not
    >>>>>> enough Chiefs.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yeah what a crock of **** when people get the freedom of choice, eh?
    >>>>
    >>>> New day, same old FUD. As I've said before, the only people who seem
    >>>> worried about choice in Linux are those who don't use it.
    >>>
    >>> Obviously the current method of "freedom of choice" is not working.
    >>> Linux at 0.6 percent of the desktop market after 10+ years is totally
    >>> pathetic.

    >>
    >> Around .6% is great considering how many people don't know what Linux
    >> is, considering the network effects of the the installed Windows base,
    >> and its associated inertia, and the herd mentality of people in
    >> general.

    >
    > If people didn't know what linux is already, it might have been
    > considerably higher.


    People don't know what it is. Go to a mall.. one without a CompUSA or
    Frys,etc ... ask 100 people what Linux is. Get back to us.

    >>> So, you Linux loons have two choices.

    >>
    >> ... talking to your self again?
    >>
    >>
    >>> 1. Keep churning out one defective distribution after another.

    >>
    >> Even is some are defective, so what? The top contenders are at least as
    >> reliable as Windows.

    >
    > What a fantastic endorsement. "Use linux: it's at least as reliable as
    > Windows."


    If I say it is easier to install than Windows (which it is ,in my
    opinion) the wintrolls go spastic. Not the informed and/or intellignet
    users, the trolls.

    >
    >
    >> 2. Figure
    >>> out what is wrong with Linux and why average people are willing to pay
    >>> for Windows rather than use Linux and fix the problem with a
    >>> distribution that actually, totally, completely works.

    >>
    >> I have been telling you the main reasons for the low Linux adoption
    >> rate... network effects, inertia and herd mentality.

    >
    > You left out /Familiarity/


    Covered in network effects and herd mentality.

    >
    >
    >>
    >>> The ball is in your court.
    >>> And in fact it has been for the past 10+ years. The problem is, you
    >>> Linux boobs hide behind the freedom of choice flag and don't realize
    >>> that choice isn't really good when all the choices suck at the basic
    >>> level.

    >>
    >> If the choices suck, why do you and your family use Linux?



    --
    Rick

  12. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:01:15 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:38:47 -0500, RonB wrote:
    >>
    >> Obviously the current method of "freedom of choice" is not working.
    >> Linux at 0.6 percent of the desktop market after 10+ years is totally
    >> pathetic.

    >
    > Around .6% is great considering how many people don't know what Linux is,
    > considering the network effects of the the installed Windows base, and
    > its associated inertia, and the herd mentality of people in general.


    And considering Gartner pegs Linux "market share" at almost three times
    "Moshe"'s figure, 1.5%, and that only in the United States. In places
    not so much under the sway of the business oligarchy, the figure is
    again yet another factor of three larger, 4.5%.

    > Even is some are defective, so what? The top contenders are at least as
    > reliable as Windows.


    None of them are defective.

    All of them have bugs.

    All of them generally work as well as XP in most areas, and better than
    XP in some.

    > I have been telling you the main reasons for the low Linux adoption
    > rate... network effects, inertia and herd mentality.


    One has to conclude that these effects are greater in America.

    > If the choices suck, why do you and your family use Linux?


    I wouldn't believe a single word "Moshe" says, no matter /what/ he says.

    The reason? Under other pseudonyms, he has bragged about his trolling
    abilities. He will say /anything/ to get a response.

    He will even choose a nym using somewhat ethically challenged methods.

    --
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't
    lose.
    -- Bill Gates

  13. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    * Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >| "Some years back, Microsoft practiced a lot of dirty tricks using
    >| online mavens to go into forums and create Web sites extolling the virtues
    >| of Windows over OS/2. They were dubbed the Microsoft Munchkins...
    >
    > http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/gi...sroots_an.html
    >
    >| "Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental
    >| deficiency, as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2."
    >| Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make
    >| the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the mythology of
    >| the computer industry...
    >
    > -- Microsoft, internal document
    > http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf


    Just wanted to emphasize the class of marketers we're dealing with.

    Amoral and predatory, just as intimated by Robert Bork and Kenneth
    Starr.

    --
    Television is not real life. In real life people actually have to leave the
    coffee shop and go to jobs.
    -- Bill Gates

  14. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Matt

    wrote
    on Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:25:28 GMT
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >>>> It's more comparable to something like the GTK toolkit.
    >>>
    >>> GTK+ tries to work on Windows, Mac, and Linux, making it a more complete
    >>> cross-platform system, unlike Cygwin, which is no good for Mac so far.

    >>
    >> Mac wouldn't need it unless you're discussing OS 9 or even earlier.
    >> It is, after all, BSD-based. ;-)

    >
    > Huh? Are you saying Mac runs an X server? I understand Cygwin can run
    > an X server, but I don't know whether it's practical.


    It's a bit buried, but under the 64-bit applications section in:

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html

    one gets the rather odd wording:

    Even major graphical system libraries — including
    Cocoa, X11, and OpenGL — are available to both 32-bit
    and 64-bit processes.

    Whether they're running everything under X, or merely
    allow invocation of an X server as a window (a la NeXT),
    I don't know. I suspect the former.

    As for Cygwin -- yes, it can run an X server. It's quirky
    and a bit slow, but it does work. Cygwin's X server,
    however, runs as a separate Window (though it is possible
    for the X server to take over the screen temporarily).

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  15. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Matt
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:25:28 GMT
    > :
    >> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>>>> It's more comparable to something like the GTK toolkit.
    >>>> GTK+ tries to work on Windows, Mac, and Linux, making it a more complete
    >>>> cross-platform system, unlike Cygwin, which is no good for Mac so far.
    >>> Mac wouldn't need it unless you're discussing OS 9 or even earlier.
    >>> It is, after all, BSD-based. ;-)

    >> Huh? Are you saying Mac runs an X server? I understand Cygwin can run
    >> an X server, but I don't know whether it's practical.

    >
    > It's a bit buried, but under the 64-bit applications section in:
    >
    > http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html
    >
    > one gets the rather odd wording:
    >
    > Even major graphical system libraries — including
    > Cocoa, X11, and OpenGL — are available to both 32-bit
    > and 64-bit processes.
    >
    > Whether they're running everything under X, or merely
    > allow invocation of an X server as a window (a la NeXT),
    > I don't know. I suspect the former.
    >
    > As for Cygwin -- yes, it can run an X server. It's quirky
    > and a bit slow, but it does work. Cygwin's X server,
    > however, runs as a separate Window (though it is possible
    > for the X server to take over the screen temporarily).
    >


    wow thanks

  16. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >
    >> Well, you will always have people who for the sake of new
    >> and impressing their friends AKA "keepin up with the Jones",
    >> plunk down 1,000 quid without batting an eye; pay for it
    >> through a credit card loan at highest interest rate.
    >>
    >> If one were to do that, then do it with a Mac.
    >>
    >> I have met people who are intimidated by reinstalling
    >> software and ask for help. Even installing Microsoft
    >> Windows XP Home requires some computer knowledge that not
    >> all have or ever acquire.
    >>
    >> The closest to an out-of-the-box experience comes from
    >> Ubuntu Linux.

    >
    > Assuming a box which has only BIOS on it initially, of course.
    > The sad part is: most boxes have that...erm...other solution
    > on them as well.


    Well, that is the way the world is. I prefer to make things dual
    boot, so I have a choice depended one what software to run. It
    is out of convenience for now; Windows XP for some games, but
    Ubuntu for the net and office stuff. However, a system that is
    handed over for free makes an ideal candidate for Linux. That
    has held true for a while, I remember how well a 100 MHz 486
    would run on RedHat 6.1. Ubuntu Gutsy works really fine on my
    850 MHz, 512 MB laptop.

    >> After rebooting (the one and only rebooting required, unless
    >> one has such an out-of-date distro that requires a huge
    >> download with kernel patches), every came up working, sound,
    >> video, USB ports, DVD, etc.

    >
    > I take it you're not counting the initial boot with the
    > Livedisc...but yeah, that's about the size of it with Gentoo
    > as well, if one goes stock.
    >
    > I suspect most other distros need only one as well.
    >
    > It just works...but it still needs that install, if one
    > doesn't get preinstalled Linux (System76 and Eracks look good
    > to me personally, but linux.org has a few others).


    Oh, I am sure that some will state that Windoze installs without
    any expertise required, until someone realises that by not
    unplugging the network connection prior to antivirus software
    installation just netted them an unpleasant surprise.

    >> Trolls herein have attempted to do that with very poor
    >> results. It makes them look like Royale Phools.

    >
    > They play on the public's ignorance. How many of us know of
    > INT 80H (int $0x80)? How much of us really need to?
    > Separation of root accounts from user accounts is probably the
    > layman's limit, absent specialized instructions.


    I still remember the INT 21H of the MSDOS era, Int 21 / AH=09h
    "write string terminated with a '$' to standard output". How
    many remember the 8-bit predecessor, BDOS 5 call of 8080 fame?
    (Equivalent, C=9, DE=string adddress - shows DOS came out of CP/M)

    > Of course they can try to read /usr/src/linux/Documentation
    > but there are 218 entries in there, 66 of which are
    > subdirectories. 'find . -type f | wc' suggests almost 1000
    > files. Most of these are presumably for rather specialized
    > modules.
    >
    > Were someone to have the time, one might consider organizing
    > this a bit, making it an actual navigable Web tree (index.html
    > with links), and folding it back into the Linux source, and
    > possibly moving things around a bit (e.g, ./i386 and ./ia64
    > and ./m68k might be moved to ./arch/i386 et al, perhaps). As
    > a documentation aid, the value add might be nice; it is of
    > course largely irrelevant to actual kernel operation.


    Perhaps. As Linux gains popularity, there will be more and more
    development. Most serious Linux users ought to invest in a Linux
    Bible for their particular distro. It is indispensable for
    setting up and troubleshooting. It is a lot nicer to have a 500
    page manual in the hand and fingers on a particular section than
    to grep for stuff.

    OTOH, most users are just that, users, not super users. That
    goes ditto even for Windows. Look at how many "Windows for
    Idiots / Dummies / Noobs, etc. etc. etc. there are. Not all area
    able to upgrade hardware, install drivers, configure settings,
    etc. So some of that documentation will not benefit those types.

    >> If one is not afraid to void his EULA, he can post true
    >> benchmarks between Windows and Linux. However, that will
    >> not guarantee that he may not be sued by the monopoly, with
    >> intention to make an example out of him. Or have them sic
    >> the software police on him (SBA).

    >
    > One wonders how far they would want to go with this.


    Oh, most of those type tests IMHO, happen between closed doors.
    Someone on the IT side writes a little script or gets something
    benchmark worthy off the net. Then runs a few checks.
    Afterwards shows his team leader, boss, manager, etc. Hey, look
    what I found out, you should see this! A quiet volley through
    phone and E-mail occurs between peers.

    Somehow that Linux server mysteriously shows up stealthily on the
    network. Do they admit it is there? No, why? There is no need
    for an evangelist to visit one on the doorstep, because he
    figures there is another "unlicensed" CPU out there, ready to cut
    another bargain. Visit the CEO and rat on the renegade that
    improved network stability and functionality.

    It is a number of attrition with Linux slowly taking on greater
    responsibilities. We see it with desktops, too. No one is going
    to admit how many really are out there.

    I liken the shock to an invading army that suddenly realises how
    many home owners have guns that shoot back real bullets. "We
    need gun control (censorship)". Thus, it is not hard to
    understand why there is a movement to silence Linux and FOSS.

    --
    HPT

  17. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, High Plains Thumper

    wrote
    on Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:18:39 -0600
    <4806c191$0$22078$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org>:
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >> High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >>
    >>> Well, you will always have people who for the sake of new
    >>> and impressing their friends AKA "keepin up with the Jones",
    >>> plunk down 1,000 quid without batting an eye; pay for it
    >>> through a credit card loan at highest interest rate.
    >>>
    >>> If one were to do that, then do it with a Mac.
    >>>
    >>> I have met people who are intimidated by reinstalling
    >>> software and ask for help. Even installing Microsoft
    >>> Windows XP Home requires some computer knowledge that not
    >>> all have or ever acquire.
    >>>
    >>> The closest to an out-of-the-box experience comes from
    >>> Ubuntu Linux.

    >>
    >> Assuming a box which has only BIOS on it initially, of course.
    >> The sad part is: most boxes have that...erm...other solution
    >> on them as well.

    >
    > Well, that is the way the world is. I prefer to make things dual
    > boot, so I have a choice depended one what software to run. It
    > is out of convenience for now; Windows XP for some games, but
    > Ubuntu for the net and office stuff. However, a system that is
    > handed over for free makes an ideal candidate for Linux. That
    > has held true for a while, I remember how well a 100 MHz 486
    > would run on RedHat 6.1. Ubuntu Gutsy works really fine on my
    > 850 MHz, 512 MB laptop.


    I'd love more memory on my 512 MB laptop but Linux/Gnome works
    reasonably well, and I can even use WiFi...if there's an appropriate
    nearby node. My main problem is suspend/hibernate, and that's not
    a high priority. (It's partially working but when I repower it up
    it just boots instead of restoring and mucks up my swap. No doubt part
    of this is because I overwrite swap during hibernation, and for some
    reason Gentoo's bootscripts get confused and/or I've not configured the
    kernel boot properly. Sigh.)

    >
    >>> After rebooting (the one and only rebooting required, unless
    >>> one has such an out-of-date distro that requires a huge
    >>> download with kernel patches), every came up working, sound,
    >>> video, USB ports, DVD, etc.

    >>
    >> I take it you're not counting the initial boot with the
    >> Livedisc...but yeah, that's about the size of it with Gentoo
    >> as well, if one goes stock.
    >>
    >> I suspect most other distros need only one as well.
    >>
    >> It just works...but it still needs that install, if one
    >> doesn't get preinstalled Linux (System76 and Eracks look good
    >> to me personally, but linux.org has a few others).

    >
    > Oh, I am sure that some will state that Windoze installs without
    > any expertise required, until someone realises that by not
    > unplugging the network connection prior to antivirus software
    > installation just netted them an unpleasant surprise.


    Depends on a few factors. I've personally not tried
    to (re?)install Windows, but some here have posted horror
    stories, especially when one needs drivers and applications.

    Hopefully it's getting better; I do know, for example, that
    Firefox can install itself on XP without a reboot. Of course
    Firefox isn't the best of examples.

    >
    >>> Trolls herein have attempted to do that with very poor
    >>> results. It makes them look like Royale Phools.

    >>
    >> They play on the public's ignorance. How many of us know of
    >> INT 80H (int $0x80)? How much of us really need to?
    >> Separation of root accounts from user accounts is probably the
    >> layman's limit, absent specialized instructions.

    >
    > I still remember the INT 21H of the MSDOS era, Int 21 / AH=09h
    > "write string terminated with a '$' to standard output". How
    > many remember the 8-bit predecessor, BDOS 5 call of 8080 fame?
    > (Equivalent, C=9, DE=string adddress - shows DOS came out of CP/M)


    Not me; can't say I ever worked with CP/M. Not that it's
    horribly surprising; there's only so many ways one can
    implement "print a string" after all.

    >
    >> Of course they can try to read /usr/src/linux/Documentation
    >> but there are 218 entries in there, 66 of which are
    >> subdirectories. 'find . -type f | wc' suggests almost 1000
    >> files. Most of these are presumably for rather specialized
    >> modules.
    >>
    >> Were someone to have the time, one might consider organizing
    >> this a bit, making it an actual navigable Web tree (index.html
    >> with links), and folding it back into the Linux source, and
    >> possibly moving things around a bit (e.g, ./i386 and ./ia64
    >> and ./m68k might be moved to ./arch/i386 et al, perhaps). As
    >> a documentation aid, the value add might be nice; it is of
    >> course largely irrelevant to actual kernel operation.

    >
    > Perhaps. As Linux gains popularity, there will be more and more
    > development. Most serious Linux users ought to invest in a Linux
    > Bible for their particular distro. It is indispensable for
    > setting up and troubleshooting. It is a lot nicer to have a 500
    > page manual in the hand and fingers on a particular section than
    > to grep for stuff.


    Depends on the user. Hardcopy can be useful, though,
    especially if one wants to bookmark.

    >
    > OTOH, most users are just that, users, not super users. That
    > goes ditto even for Windows. Look at how many "Windows for
    > Idiots / Dummies / Noobs, etc. etc. etc. there are. Not all area
    > able to upgrade hardware, install drivers, configure settings,
    > etc. So some of that documentation will not benefit those types.
    >
    >>> If one is not afraid to void his EULA, he can post true
    >>> benchmarks between Windows and Linux. However, that will
    >>> not guarantee that he may not be sued by the monopoly, with
    >>> intention to make an example out of him. Or have them sic
    >>> the software police on him (SBA).

    >>
    >> One wonders how far they would want to go with this.

    >
    > Oh, most of those type tests IMHO, happen between closed doors.
    > Someone on the IT side writes a little script or gets something
    > benchmark worthy off the net. Then runs a few checks.
    > Afterwards shows his team leader, boss, manager, etc. Hey, look
    > what I found out, you should see this! A quiet volley through
    > phone and E-mail occurs between peers.
    >
    > Somehow that Linux server mysteriously shows up stealthily on the
    > network. Do they admit it is there? No, why? There is no need
    > for an evangelist to visit one on the doorstep, because he
    > figures there is another "unlicensed" CPU out there, ready to cut
    > another bargain. Visit the CEO and rat on the renegade that
    > improved network stability and functionality.
    >
    > It is a number of attrition with Linux slowly taking on greater
    > responsibilities. We see it with desktops, too. No one is going
    > to admit how many really are out there.


    How can one? It's not like I can telnet/ssh into a
    desktop with an automated script and tell instantly what
    OS is on there (though it's usually pretty obvious, for
    other reasons). Also, dualboots and VmWare-style emulations
    make life real interesting.

    >
    > I liken the shock to an invading army that suddenly realises how
    > many home owners have guns that shoot back real bullets. "We
    > need gun control (censorship)". Thus, it is not hard to
    > understand why there is a movement to silence Linux and FOSS.
    >


    Can't be too careful with al Qaeda running about; it might
    lead to dancing. ;-)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Windows Vista. Because a BSOD is just so 20th century; why not
    try our new color changing variant?

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  18. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On 2008-04-17, High Plains Thumper wrote:
    > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> Of course they can try to read /usr/src/linux/Documentation
    >> but there are 218 entries in there, 66 of which are
    >> subdirectories. 'find . -type f | wc' suggests almost 1000
    >> files. Most of these are presumably for rather specialized
    >> modules.
    >>
    >> Were someone to have the time, one might consider organizing
    >> this a bit, making it an actual navigable Web tree (index.html
    >> with links), and folding it back into the Linux source, and
    >> possibly moving things around a bit (e.g, ./i386 and ./ia64
    >> and ./m68k might be moved to ./arch/i386 et al, perhaps). As
    >> a documentation aid, the value add might be nice; it is of
    >> course largely irrelevant to actual kernel operation.

    >
    > Perhaps. As Linux gains popularity, there will be more and more
    > development. Most serious Linux users ought to invest in a Linux
    > Bible for their particular distro. It is indispensable for
    > setting up and troubleshooting. It is a lot nicer to have a 500
    > page manual in the hand and fingers on a particular section than
    > to grep for stuff.


    You can get rather extensive linux kernel documentation by merely doing
    "make htmldocs|mandocs&&installmandocs|psdocs|pdfdocs|xmldocs"

    As for investing in a "Linux Bible" for their particular distro, I'm an
    atheist and therefore prefer the Gentoo Cookbooks found at:

    http://www.gentoo.org/

    No need at all for investment, other than your own time to enjoy this
    fine documentation.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  19. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:17:12 +0000, Little Billy wrote:

    > No, they're just penniless losers and wackos. They're the sort who vote
    > for Lyndon Larouche and think "global warming" and that tidal wave in
    > Indonesia were manufactured by big business. Linux is like a cult to
    > them and their lives revolve around it. Perhaps because they have no
    > real lives.They're like the Jehovah Witnesses of the computer world .
    > Why else would they come on unrelated groups where they're not wanted
    > and try to "convert" people to Linux? If I had some sort of superior
    > technology I'd keep it to myself )


    With your gay user name and your retarded mentality I'm guessing you're
    American. It seems Americans really fear Linux because it's so open and
    ad hears to the policies of the founding forefathers. But the modern day
    American loves big business and wants to be its little bitch so it
    doesn't have to think for itself.

    It's just easier to play on your ****ty MS computer while watching some
    ****ty Wayans brothers movie and eat some ****ty McDonalds food while you
    argue over whether or not Dubya is as great as Jesus or whether he is
    Jesus.

    Mind you if I was in a country with a economy that's going down the
    ****ter big time I'd probably try to promote the only American company
    that has a chance of surviving and providing jobs too because the US
    can't rely on car industry anymore. It must really hurt being the
    inventor of the car yet not being able to make a decent car since the
    70's.


  20. Re: 6 months ago: Microsoft shows off leaner kernel for Windows 7

    On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:44:34 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > Anyway, back to my question, but rephrased : "Did you miss the humour in
    > his post?".


    You're not supposed to recognise humour but instead play along with it.

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