Popular laptops ... - Linux

This is a discussion on Popular laptops ... - Linux ; On 2008-04-09, Erik Funkenbusch wrote: > On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:20:59 -0500, AZ Nomad wrote: > >> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:50:23 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch wrote: >>>On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:52:52 +0200, Richard Rasker wrote: >> >>>> ...

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Thread: Popular laptops ...

  1. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On 2008-04-09, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:20:59 -0500, AZ Nomad wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:50:23 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>>On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:52:52 +0200, Richard Rasker wrote:

    >>
    >>>> Yeah, Linux isn't popular, they can't even give it away, it's slopware,
    >>>> no-one wants to use it -- in other words: only idiots would try selling
    >>>> preinstalled Linux machines, because there's no demand for 'em whatsoever.
    >>>> The world only wants Windows, so that's why only Windows machines are on
    >>>> offer, and that's the way a proper market should work, right?

    >>
    >>>Not exactly. Most users want Windows for desktop use, regardless of
    >>>whether that's a mobile desktop or a fixed one.

    >>
    >> Yeah, just like how the original PC never took off because it couldn't run
    >> mainframe applications.

    >
    > You appear to be misunderstanding me.
    >
    > My point is that people are using the Eee as an appliance, something they
    > buy and ned use as-is, not as a general purpose PC in which they customize
    > it by installing the applications they wish to use.


    Odd that.

    This sounds remarkably similar (neigh identical) to how many
    home and corporate users use their current Windows PCs (the big
    bulky ones with many ccs of empty space in side).

    [deletia]

    If consumers ever catch onto this it could be very interesting.

    --
    My macintosh runs Ubuntu. |||
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  2. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On 2008-04-10, Linonut wrote:
    > * Tom Shelton peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On 2008-04-09, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Let us know when your count tops 100.

    >>
    >> Sorry - I don't get out enough to see that many

    >
    > That's okay, I ain't seen /1/ yet. Maybe they're a myth!
    >
    > And the only Macs? One at the faculty dental practice (eventually
    > replaced with an XP box), and one a friend from California brought.
    >


    I know two mac users. a former boss, and a fried of mine and his wife


    --
    Tom Shelton

  3. Re: Popular laptops ...

    Richard Rasker wrote:

    > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04...ies_eee_rival/
    >
    > "Asus is believed to have sold over 1m Eees since the ground-breaking mini
    > computer went on sale in October 2007. That's roughly 167,000 a month ...
    > There's certainly been demand for the Asus product, though supply has
    > frequently failed to meet it."
    >
    > FYI: that's at least 1% of all PC's and laptops sold, which isn't bad at all
    > for any new product in the market, let alone a Linux product.


    167K per month is about 2/3 % of PC (including laptop) sales.

    http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=584210
    (((((
    > Gartner Says Worldwide PC Market Grew 13 Percent in 2007
    >
    > Hewlett-Packard Widens Its Position as Leading Vendor of Worldwide PC Shipments
    >
    > STAMFORD, Conn., January 16, 2008 Worldwide PC shipments totaled 271.2 million units in 2007, a 13.4 percent increase from 2006, according to preliminary results by Gartner, Inc. The industry ended the year with fourth quarter PC shipments of 75.9 million units, a 13.1 percent increase from the fourth quarter of 2006.

    )))))

  4. Re: Popular laptops ...

    Matt writes:

    > Richard Rasker wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04...ies_eee_rival/
    >>
    >> "Asus is believed to have sold over 1m Eees since the ground-breaking mini
    >> computer went on sale in October 2007. That's roughly 167,000 a month ...
    >> There's certainly been demand for the Asus product, though supply has
    >> frequently failed to meet it."
    >>
    >> FYI: that's at least 1% of all PC's and laptops sold, which isn't bad at all
    >> for any new product in the market, let alone a Linux product.

    >
    > 167K per month is about 2/3 % of PC (including laptop) sales.
    >
    > http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=584210
    > (((((


    Richard Rasker would not know the truth if it reversed into him.

  5. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On 2008-04-10, Tom Shelton wrote:
    > On 2008-04-10, Linonut wrote:
    >> * Tom Shelton peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> On 2008-04-09, Linonut wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Let us know when your count tops 100.
    >>>
    >>> Sorry - I don't get out enough to see that many

    >>
    >> That's okay, I ain't seen /1/ yet. Maybe they're a myth!
    >>
    >> And the only Macs? One at the faculty dental practice (eventually
    >> replaced with an XP box), and one a friend from California brought.
    >>

    >
    > I know two mac users. a former boss, and a fried of mine and his wife
    >
    >


    I guess that means 3, actually
    --
    Tom Shelton

  6. Re: Popular laptops ...

    Hadron wrote:
    > Matt writes:
    >
    >> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>
    >>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04...ies_eee_rival/
    >>>
    >>> "Asus is believed to have sold over 1m Eees since the ground-breaking mini
    >>> computer went on sale in October 2007. That's roughly 167,000 a month ...
    >>> There's certainly been demand for the Asus product, though supply has
    >>> frequently failed to meet it."
    >>>
    >>> FYI: that's at least 1% of all PC's and laptops sold, which isn't bad at all
    >>> for any new product in the market, let alone a Linux product.

    >> 167K per month is about 2/3 % of PC (including laptop) sales.
    >>
    >> http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=584210
    >> (((((

    >
    > Richard Rasker would not know the truth if it reversed into him.


    A simple "thank you" for the link might have been welcome.

    You clipped the gist of the link.

  7. Re: Popular laptops ...

    Matt writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Matt writes:
    >>
    >>> Richard Rasker wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04...ies_eee_rival/
    >>>>
    >>>> "Asus is believed to have sold over 1m Eees since the ground-breaking mini
    >>>> computer went on sale in October 2007. That's roughly 167,000 a month ...
    >>>> There's certainly been demand for the Asus product, though supply has
    >>>> frequently failed to meet it."
    >>>>
    >>>> FYI: that's at least 1% of all PC's and laptops sold, which isn't bad at all
    >>>> for any new product in the market, let alone a Linux product.
    >>> 167K per month is about 2/3 % of PC (including laptop) sales.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=584210
    >>> (((((

    >>
    >> Richard Rasker would not know the truth if it reversed into him.

    >
    > A simple "thank you" for the link might have been welcome.
    >
    > You clipped the gist of the link.


    Because the gist was irrelevant. I clipped everything not pertinent to
    my reply.

    The reply DID include Raskers claims (almost double what they really
    are) and your corrections of his lies.

  8. Re: Popular laptops ...

    Hadron wrote:

    > the gist was irrelevant.


  9. Re: Popular laptops ...


    Matt writes:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> the gist was irrelevant.


    Why would you do that? Are you really Dog Mental?

    The point was that the part of the gist I snipped was irrelevant to my
    reply. Ye gods, this NG gets crazier by the second.

    --
    < doogie> asuffield: how do you think dpkg was originally written? :|
    < asuffield> by letting iwj get dangerously near a computer
    -- in #debian-devel

  10. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:18:10 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:42:17 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> The Eee isn't being used as a normal laptop, it's more like a large PDA.
    >>>
    >>> I dub thee "Whirligig Funkenbusch".
    >>>
    >>>> The PDA market has traditionally broken from desktop applications, and
    >>>> users don't expect their desktop applications to work on it.
    >>>>
    >>>> It's popular, but not for the same reasons that normal laptop is popular.
    >>>> The Eee would be popular no matter what OS it used, because end users don't
    >>>> typically load their own apps, or if they do they're apps written
    >>>> specifically for the Eee.
    >>>>
    >>>> A normal laptop, people expect to be compatible with their desktop
    >>>> applicaitons, and they use it as a mobile desktop.
    >>>
    >>> What a post full of ****. Incredible.

    >>
    >> It would help if you managed to actually counter what i've said with
    >> something.
    >>
    >> How am I wrong? Are Eee users installing Desktop apps? Are they even
    >> installing, on average, any apps at all?

    >
    > You have absolutely /no/ idea about the Eee PC usage profile.
    >
    > That's my point.
    >
    > Yet you go on blithely trying to cram the Eee PC into the PDA profile.


    I have a good idea, actually, since I've seen about 12 of them in use.
    I've also talked to the salesguys ant Micro Center where they're being sold
    and asked about what people seem to be buying them for.

    You see, not too long ago, I was in the market for a new PDA device. I
    finally settled on the Nokia 810, but I was seriously looking at the Eee as
    well, so I did a lot of research and talked to anyone I could find that had
    one.

    Anecdotal? Perhaps, but certainly a lot more research than anyone here has
    likely done.

  11. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:41:57 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:

    >> You appear to be misunderstanding me.
    >>
    >> My point is that people are using the Eee as an appliance, something they
    >> buy and ned use as-is, not as a general purpose PC in which they customize
    >> it by installing the applications they wish to use.

    >
    > Odd that.
    >
    > This sounds remarkably similar (neigh identical) to how many
    > home and corporate users use their current Windows PCs (the big
    > bulky ones with many ccs of empty space in side).


    Really? You're seriously trying to tell me that "many" people buy a
    Windows PC and never install anything on it?

    Yeah, right.

    I think you're disingenuous.

  12. Re: Popular laptops ...

    * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:

    >> Yet you go on blithely trying to cram the Eee PC into the PDA profile.

    >
    > I have a good idea, actually, since I've seen about 12 of them in use.


    Well, I certainly wouldn't be buying one to limit it usage to "PDA".

    How did these 12 people you mentioned fit those Eee PC "PDA's" into
    their pockets or into belt holster?

    Do they hold them in one hand while typing with the other hand?

    > I've also talked to the salesguys ant Micro Center where they're being sold
    > and asked about what people seem to be buying them for.

    ^^^^
    Yeah, that's a real bit of market research, that.

    > You see, not too long ago, I was in the market for a new PDA device. I
    > finally settled on the Nokia 810, but I was seriously looking at the Eee as
    > well, so I did a lot of research and talked to anyone I could find that had
    > one.


    Conclusion: You opted for a device that really /is/ a PDA.

    > Anecdotal? Perhaps, but certainly a lot more research than anyone here has
    > likely done.


    I don't think you are much of a researcher then, if you conclude that
    you can cram a sub-notebook computer into a PDA profile. In other
    words, you're conclusion still reeks. It's ridiculous on the face of
    it, no matter how much anecdotal "evidence" you have.

    And no matter that you equate "not installing new apps" with "being a
    PDA".

    http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=2087

    GoatBoy wrote:

    Oh no, you can't do that! If you start using Palm apps on
    your EEE PC, then someone might call it a PDA and your
    feelings will be hurt! Please show some decency!

    You're right, everyone duck and cover -- the guy is
    transforming it into a PDA... OOOh the humanity!

    This guy, as an aside, seems to believe many people convert their Eee's
    to XP boxes:

    http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=256617

    Still, the biggest criticism from consumers was the use of Asus'
    customized Xandros Linux as an operating system. The "Eee" in Eee PC
    stands for "Easy to Learn, Easy to work, Easy to play."
    Unfortunately, although the point-and-click Linux interface was
    indeed simple, most customers didn't find it "easy." In fact, the
    single most common modification that customers made to their Eee PCs
    was the installation of Windows XP.


    This guy, as an aside, seems to believe many people convert their Eee's
    to XP boxes:

    http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=256617

    Still, the biggest criticism from consumers was the use of Asus'
    customized Xandros Linux as an operating system. The "Eee" in Eee PC
    stands for "Easy to Learn, Easy to work, Easy to play."
    Unfortunately, although the point-and-click Linux interface was
    indeed simple, most customers didn't find it "easy." In fact, the
    single most common modification that customers made to their Eee PCs
    was the installation of Windows XP.

    Another "anecdote"?

    --
    Intellectual property has the shelf life of a banana.
    -- Bill Gates

  13. Re: Popular laptops ...

    * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:41:57 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >
    >>> My point is that people are using the Eee as an appliance, something they
    >>> buy and ned use as-is, not as a general purpose PC in which they customize
    >>> it by installing the applications they wish to use.

    >>
    >> This sounds remarkably similar (neigh identical) to how many
    >> home and corporate users use their current Windows PCs (the big
    >> bulky ones with many ccs of empty space in side).

    >
    > Really? You're seriously trying to tell me that "many" people buy a
    > Windows PC and never install anything on it?
    >
    > Yeah, right.
    >
    > I think you're disingenuous.


    He might be right, Erik.

    His anecdotal evidence has got to be as good as yours, hmm?

    Of course, if they opt for the Windows XP version of the Eee, they
    /will/ have install software to make it useful.

    --
    The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste, they have
    absolutely no taste, and what that means is -- I don't mean that in a small
    way I mean that in a big way -- in the sense that they they don't think of
    original ideas and they don't bring much culture into their product.
    -- Steve Jobs as quoted in the PBS documentary Triumph of the Nerds (1996)

  14. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:26:02 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:41:57 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >
    >>> You appear to be misunderstanding me.
    >>>
    >>> My point is that people are using the Eee as an appliance, something they
    >>> buy and ned use as-is, not as a general purpose PC in which they customize
    >>> it by installing the applications they wish to use.

    >>
    >> Odd that.
    >>
    >> This sounds remarkably similar (neigh identical) to how many
    >> home and corporate users use their current Windows PCs (the big
    >> bulky ones with many ccs of empty space in side).

    >
    > Really? You're seriously trying to tell me that "many" people buy a
    > Windows PC and never install anything on it?
    >
    > Yeah, right.
    >
    > I think you're disingenuous.


    It's jedi, what do you expect?

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  15. Re: Popular laptops ...

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:46:47 -0400,
    Linonut wrote:
    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:41:57 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >>
    >>>> My point is that people are using the Eee as an appliance, something they
    >>>> buy and ned use as-is, not as a general purpose PC in which they customize
    >>>> it by installing the applications they wish to use.
    >>>
    >>> This sounds remarkably similar (neigh identical) to how many
    >>> home and corporate users use their current Windows PCs (the big
    >>> bulky ones with many ccs of empty space in side).

    >>
    >> Really? You're seriously trying to tell me that "many" people buy a
    >> Windows PC and never install anything on it?
    >>
    >> Yeah, right.
    >>
    >> I think you're disingenuous.

    >
    > He might be right, Erik.
    >
    > His anecdotal evidence has got to be as good as yours, hmm?
    >
    > Of course, if they opt for the Windows XP version of the Eee, they
    > /will/ have install software to make it useful.
    >



    Erik has somewhat of a point, I mean, a bare bones XP install can't do
    much of anything other than email and web. No word processor, nothing
    like that. Wordpad if you are "lucky".

    Of course, most vendors pile on all sorts of crap, and offer
    pre-installed (for a fee, hefty or otherwise) copies of MS-Works and/or
    office. So if your needs are simple, then that would likely suffice.

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    I came; I saw; I ****ed up

  16. Re: Popular laptops ...

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (aka: Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    * Nym shifting (see below)
    * Self confessed thief and proud of it
    * Homophobic
    * Racist
    * Habitual liar
    * Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
    * Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA

  17. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On 2008-04-10, Linonut claimed:
    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >>> Yet you go on blithely trying to cram the Eee PC into the PDA profile.

    >>
    >> I have a good idea, actually, since I've seen about 12 of them in use.

    >
    > Well, I certainly wouldn't be buying one to limit it usage to "PDA".
    >
    > How did these 12 people you mentioned fit those Eee PC "PDA's" into
    > their pockets or into belt holster?
    >
    > Do they hold them in one hand while typing with the other hand?
    >
    >> I've also talked to the salesguys ant Micro Center where they're being sold
    >> and asked about what people seem to be buying them for.

    > ^^^^
    > Yeah, that's a real bit of market research, that.


    SALES DWEEB: Excuse me sir, but just what do you think you're doing
    with that stick of RAM?

    CUSTOMER: Buying it.

    SD: What do you plan to do with it?

    MARK: Stick it in the computer I own. Why?

    SD: We have some dork running around here asking us what our customers
    "seem" to be doing with the stuff they buy. He drives us crazy if
    we don't tell him. Thanks for responding and making life better for
    us. Excuse me.......

    SD: ....Sir? Sir? Yes, you. What are you planning on doing with that
    video card?

    --
    One single fact can ruin a perfectly good argument.

  18. Re: Popular laptops ...

    On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:46:47 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >* Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:


    >> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:41:57 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:
    >>
    >>>> My point is that people are using the Eee as an appliance, something they
    >>>> buy and ned use as-is, not as a general purpose PC in which they customize
    >>>> it by installing the applications they wish to use.
    >>>
    >>> This sounds remarkably similar (neigh identical) to how many
    >>> home and corporate users use their current Windows PCs (the big
    >>> bulky ones with many ccs of empty space in side).

    >>
    >> Really? You're seriously trying to tell me that "many" people buy a
    >> Windows PC and never install anything on it?
    >>
    >> Yeah, right.
    >>
    >> I think you're disingenuous.


    >He might be right, Erik.


    >His anecdotal evidence has got to be as good as yours, hmm?


    >Of course, if they opt for the Windows XP version of the Eee, they
    >/will/ have install software to make it useful.


    as well as twice the memory. Even so, it'll be sluggish having
    all of that microsoft (tm) intermittant UI deadlocks we've all come to know
    and not love.

  19. Re: Popular laptops ...

    * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:44:54 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>>> Yet you go on blithely trying to cram the Eee PC into the PDA profile.
    >>>
    >>> I have a good idea, actually, since I've seen about 12 of them in use.

    >>
    >> Well, I certainly wouldn't be buying one to limit it usage to "PDA".
    >>
    >> How did these 12 people you mentioned fit those Eee PC "PDA's" into
    >> their pockets or into belt holster?
    >>
    >> Do they hold them in one hand while typing with the other hand?

    >
    > You're being obtuse again.
    >
    > The purpose of a PDA is not its form factor (though many choose them for
    > that), but as a portable "digital assistant".


    Whatever, Erik, I've spent too much time already in this stupid-ass word
    game.

    >> This guy, as an aside, seems to believe many people convert their Eee's
    >> to XP boxes:

    >
    > That's because the people that DO buy them as small laptops are typically
    > disappointed with the Eee's essentially PDA functionality. After using it
    > for a while, they want more out of it, which means installing something
    > more substantial... either a more advanced Linux distro or Windows.


    I know that, were I to purchase one, I'd follow Martha Adam's lead and
    upgrade it (probably to Debian-unstable) immediately.

    Although, didn't someone say there was an easy way out of the
    crippled-mode Xandros on the Eee PC?

    --
    If something's expensive to develop, and somebody's not going to get paid,
    it won't get developed. So you decide: Do you want software to be
    written, or not?
    -- Bill Gates

  20. Re: Popular laptops ...

    * Jim Richardson peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Erik has somewhat of a point, I mean, a bare bones XP install can't do
    > much of anything other than email and web. No word processor, nothing
    > like that. Wordpad if you are "lucky".
    >
    > Of course, most vendors pile on all sorts of crap, and offer
    > pre-installed (for a fee, hefty or otherwise) copies of MS-Works and/or
    > office. So if your needs are simple, then that would likely suffice.


    MS Works is worse than useless.

    --
    I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system, and
    possibly program, of all time.
    -- Bill Gates, OS/2 Programmers Guide, November 1987

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