Linux hits 6.1% on March! - Linux

This is a discussion on Linux hits 6.1% on March! - Linux ; Gregory Shearman wrote: >The Ghost In The Machine wrote: > >> I would think that the question of whether a web designer >> should have the choice of excluding 5%[*] or so of his >> potential browsers is an interesting ...

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Thread: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

  1. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    Gregory Shearman wrote:

    >The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >> I would think that the question of whether a web designer
    >> should have the choice of excluding 5%[*] or so of his
    >> potential browsers is an interesting one. *It may depend
    >> on the competitiveness of his desired market; if he decides
    >> to exclude non-Windows browsers and his competitors don't,
    >> and he is not the market leader, he'll probably get some
    >> rather bad press from it all.

    >
    >Yes, the Australian Tax Office took the line that because most people used
    >windows then a windows-base solution to online tax returns was adequate.


    Of course, that's downright stupid, lazy, and evil...

    >I wonder if they take the same line with their vision-impaired customers?



  2. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    * marksouth peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:58:59 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> But as the OOXML format is an iso standard anyone can read or write it.

    >
    > Anyone who has time to read, comprehend, and retain over 6000 pages of
    > specification.


    And hope it doesn't become moot within the year.

    --
    There are people who don't like capitalism, and people who don't like PCs.
    But there's no-one who likes the PC who doesn't like Microsoft.
    -- Bill Gates

  3. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    marksouth writes:

    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:58:59 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> But as the OOXML format is an iso standard anyone can read or write it.

    >
    > Anyone who has time to read, comprehend, and retain over 6000 pages of
    > specification.


    It might surprise you mighty Mark, but that is what one has to do when
    implementing things like standards. I realise that you and Gregory
    Shearman probably see this as a waste of a programmers time and efforts
    but, well, someone has to do the slog.

    --
    "There is no such thing as Intellectual Property"
    Mark Kent
    Head of Technology Strategy, BT Global
    COLA Hypocrite

  4. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    chrisv writes:

    > dumbass@home wrote:
    >
    >>However it should be the web site owners choice.

    >
    > It is their choice, you dumb****, as long it's not an important
    > Web-site that "the people" need to use.


    Then "the people" can pay for their own one comrade.

    >
    > How many times does this need to be explained to you?
    >


    --
    XP can't be selling well, or we'd have the wintrolls crowing about it all
    over the advocacy newsgroups.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  5. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:51:38 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >
    >> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:40:44 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:20:54 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>>>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:10:53 +0200, Josef Moellers wrote:
    >>>>>>>> Even if Linux is in the less-than-1%-area: each and every
    >>>>>>>> Linux-user uses it because of its merits, not because it came
    >>>>>>>> bundeled with the computer they bought or someone forces them
    >>>>>>>> to use it. Some people (including me) even use it *against*
    >>>>>>>> pressure from higher places to use another OS.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> *That's* the difference.
    >>>>>>> Noble, however most people just want to get work done not go on
    >>>>>>> some religious pilgrimage.
    >>>>>> BTW I wasn't fishing for compliments, I was trying to say that
    >>>>>> even without a multi-billion advertising campaign, even with the
    >>>>>> windo ocasionally blowing right into our faces, at least one in
    >>>>>> 163 desktops is running Linux!
    >>>>> Linux desktop useage hovers areoun 0.6 percent.
    >>>>> The BBC pegged it at 0.8 percent, which I think is a little high.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> After 10+ years and considering Linux is free, that's pathetic.
    >>>>>
    >>>> And your counter-argument is?
    >>>>
    >>>> Again: even without a multi-billion advertising campaign (how much
    >>>> did Microsoft spend on advertising XP?) and some heavy bullying,
    >>>> Linux runs on (at least) one in 166 desktops!
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find people still using
    >>> OS/2.....

    >>
    >> Does OS/2 have 0,7% desktop market share?
    >> IIRC, OS/2 was advertised way back when it was still actively
    >> developed. (if necessary, I can dig through my back-copies of BYTE
    >> magazine).
    >>
    >> > And your counter argument is?

    >>
    >> Counter argument against what? If it has a 0.7% market share without
    >> multi-billion-$ advertising campaigns, it must be a good OS. IIRC
    >> some banking people still use it.

    >
    > After 10 years, .7 percent is pathetic.


    ....and exaggerated.



    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  6. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:41:13 +0200, Hadron wrote:

    > marksouth writes:
    >
    >> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:58:59 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >>> But as the OOXML format is an iso standard anyone can read or write
    >>> it.

    >>
    >> Anyone who has time to read, comprehend, and retain over 6000 pages of
    >> specification.

    >
    > It might surprise you mighty Mark, but that is what one has to do when
    > implementing things like standards. I realise that you and Gregory
    > Shearman probably see this as a waste of a programmers time and efforts
    > but, well, someone has to do the slog.


    It might surprise you, Hadron, but most standards that get implemented
    are of a comprehensible and readable length. The topmost ISO standard on
    my desk is 18 pages long, and easy to read, comprehend, and retain.

    Even the CORBA standard, which describes many concepts and solutions far
    more complicated and subtle than mere documents, is a few pages short of
    several thousand.

    But as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to implement OOXML should
    get on with it and do their best to enjoy it. I'm certainly not ever
    going to give desk space to 6000 pages of anything.

    Do let us know how you get on, won't you?

  7. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    On 2008-04-03, marksouth wrote:
    > On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:41:13 +0200, Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> marksouth writes:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:58:59 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> But as the OOXML format is an iso standard anyone can read or write
    >>>> it.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone who has time to read, comprehend, and retain over 6000 pages of
    >>> specification.

    >>
    >> It might surprise you mighty Mark, but that is what one has to do when
    >> implementing things like standards. I realise that you and Gregory
    >> Shearman probably see this as a waste of a programmers time and efforts
    >> but, well, someone has to do the slog.

    >
    > It might surprise you, Hadron, but most standards that get implemented
    > are of a comprehensible and readable length. The topmost ISO standard on
    > my desk is 18 pages long, and easy to read, comprehend, and retain.
    >
    > Even the CORBA standard, which describes many concepts and solutions far
    > more complicated and subtle than mere documents, is a few pages short of
    > several thousand.
    >
    > But as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to implement OOXML should
    > get on with it and do their best to enjoy it. I'm certainly not ever
    > going to give desk space to 6000 pages of anything.
    >
    > Do let us know how you get on, won't you?


    If I asked myself, how can I come up with a "standard" that would be
    impossible to implement, to pretent to be standard compliant but keep
    competitors away, it would be something like OOXML. 6000
    incomrehensible pages ought to be hard enough to implement.

    The downside for MS here is that Microsoft is unlikely to implement
    this standard very well, or support it, and, down the road, its
    customers will find themselves very ****ed by this standard.

    i

  8. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, chrisv

    wrote
    on Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:30:18 -0500
    <5sm9v31agor9kstu2tt24vtgphnj3iavo7@4ax.com>:
    > dumbass@home wrote:
    >
    >>However it should be the web site owners choice.

    >
    > It is their choice, you dumb****, as long it's not an important
    > Web-site that "the people" need to use.
    >
    > How many times does this need to be explained to you?
    >


    Who determines a Website's importance? Certainly not
    me, except as 1 voice in hundreds of thousands...if not
    millions. I doubt it's you, unless it's your website
    or blog, or a corporate website you've been contracted
    to maintain or modify.

    Best I can hope for here is that dualbooters who have
    problems using Mozilla will complain vociferously to the
    website's contact point, which may or may not be the same
    as the website's maintainer (spamtraps necessitate that
    sort of thinking).

    Of course .gov websites might have mandates by law to
    allow accessibility to all comers -- which leads into
    interesting territory, but that's not quite the same as
    a commercial affair.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733:
    bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;}

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  9. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    "Rick" stated in post
    GrKdnQredajShGjanZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@supernews.com on 4/3/08 11:52 AM:

    >> BTW I also run Linux.
    >> PCLinuxOS in particular.

    >
    > Why do you use an OS you say is so inferior?


    Same reason, perhaps, you use it even though it does not do what have what
    you say would be best for users.


    --
    When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how
    to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not
    beautiful, I know it is wrong. -- R. Buckminster Fuller


  10. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, chrisv

    wrote
    on Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:32:26 -0500
    :
    > Gregory Shearman wrote:
    >
    >>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> I would think that the question of whether a web designer
    >>> should have the choice of excluding 5%[*] or so of his
    >>> potential browsers is an interesting one. *It may depend
    >>> on the competitiveness of his desired market; if he decides
    >>> to exclude non-Windows browsers and his competitors don't,
    >>> and he is not the market leader, he'll probably get some
    >>> rather bad press from it all.

    >>
    >>Yes, the Australian Tax Office took the line that because most people used
    >>windows then a windows-base solution to online tax returns was adequate.

    >
    > Of course, that's downright stupid, lazy, and evil...


    I agree that it's lazy. I'm inclined to agree on the
    stupidity as well. As for evil -- well, evil's hard to
    pinpoint, though one could make a case that the more
    people are stupid and lazy, the more evil ensues.

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    - Wendell Phillips

    >
    >>I wonder if they take the same line with their vision-impaired customers?

    >



    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733:
    bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;}

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  11. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, chrisv

    wrote
    on Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:28:15 -0500
    <3om9v3l5v9s4sbqraf291lvh3gpd97ro5l@4ax.com>:
    > dumbass@home wrote:
    >
    >>"NoStop" wrote:
    >>
    >>> Then why do Wintards like you feel so threatened, Mr. Soap Suds?

    >>
    >>Why do *you* need to troll the vista groups, you started there before people
    >>like frank came here in retaliation.

    >
    > Umm... You do know that it's anti-Linux Wintrolls who start these
    > cross-postings, right, dumbass?


    Usually in the middle of a thread. :-/

    Followups adjusted.

    >
    >>(snip dumbass lies and snot)

    >


    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733:
    bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;}

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  12. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:30:07 -0700, NoStop wrote:
    >
    >> chrisv wrote:
    >>
    >>> NoStop wrote:
    >>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:20:32 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> That's a Roy Schestowitz administered site so I will not go there
    >>>>>>> for fear of getting a virus or trojan or something.
    >>>>>> Run Linux. You won't have to worry.
    >>>>> Sure.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Tell that to Roy Schestowitz who had his LINUX based website hacked
    >>>>> and 0wned a couple of weeks ago.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> My advice to anyone is to use the OS that supports the
    >>>>>>> applications you need to run.
    >>>>>> Linux runs all the applications you need to run.
    >>>>> No it doesn't.
    >>>>> And it doesn't for a vast number of people which is why virtually
    >>>>> nobody is using it as a desktop system.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Except for "viruses or trojans or something".
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> *snicker*
    >>>>> See Roy Schestowitz who had a trojan embedded in his website and was
    >>>>> infecting God knows how many users who visted him.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Surely you mean Windoze users? If that is the case, maybe it was
    >>>> there on purpose? So how many hours did it take for you to clean the
    >>>> virus off your toy operating system? Was it fun Mr. Soap Suds?
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers.
    >>> Windows users wouldn't visit Roy's site for any reason.
    >>> It took Roy a few days to clean it up.
    >>> No Windows users were infected.

    >> Well obviously Mr. Soap Suds visited it and it runs Windoze.
    >>
    >> Cheers.

    >
    > Wrong again Einstein.
    > All of Roy's sites are blocked in my hosts file.
    > I wouldn't go near a Schestowitz site if you paid me.


    So what? Beeg Deel.

    >
    > BTW I also run Linux.
    > PCLinuxOS in particular.


    Why do you use an OS you say is so inferior?

    >
    > Another person put up screen shots of Symantec finding the trojan on the
    > site.
    >
    > Do yourself a favor, don't come to a gun fight with a pocket knife.
    >

    Yada, yada, yada.

    --
    Rick

  13. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    >> Umm... You do know that it's anti-Linux Wintrolls who start these
    >> cross-postings, right, dumbass?

    >
    >Usually in the middle of a thread. :-/


    Sorry, I wanted him to see it.


  14. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > chrisv wrote:
    >>
    >> dumbass@home wrote:
    >>
    >>>However it should be the web site owners choice.

    >>
    >> It is their choice, you dumb****, as long it's not an important
    >> Web-site that "the people" need to use.
    >>
    >> How many times does this need to be explained to you?

    >
    >Who determines a Website's importance? Certainly not
    >me, except as 1 voice in hundreds of thousands...if not
    >millions. I doubt it's you, unless it's your website
    >or blog, or a corporate website you've been contracted
    >to maintain or modify.


    There are shades of gray, but it's really not so difficult to
    figure-out when "the line has been crossed", and you have an
    obligation or a desire to facilitate "universal access", whether
    you're a provider of a public service or you don't want to turn-away
    customers.


  15. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!



    "Josef Moellers" wrote in message
    news:ft212q$v59$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com...
    > dennis@home wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> "Josef Moellers" wrote in message

    >
    >
    >>> Why can't Microsoft use existing standards (ODF)

    >>
    >> M$ decided it wasn't extensible enough AFAIK. I am not an expert so I
    >> couldn't be sure.

    >
    > MS has a long track record of having to invent new formats for their
    > files: audio formats (WMA) and video formats (WMV) spring to my mind. And
    > all these formats are kept secret, so interoperability is impossible.
    > Since Office is their bread-and-butter product (afaik, most of their
    > revenue comes from Office), there is concern that OOXML will follow in
    > their tracks.


    They would not be standards compliant then and people would start to
    question the product.

    >
    >>> but had to force yet another standard (OOXML) which will continue to
    >>> make documents unaccessible to those *not* using their programs? Most
    >>> likely, OOXML will become the default file format when storing office
    >>> documents and most likeley people will just click "Save" rather than
    >>> first select a different format.

    >>
    >> But as the OOXML format is an iso standard anyone can read or write it.
    >> If other developers don't support it then blame them. All the other
    >> formats have been published too.

    >
    > This appears not to be true.
    > Apparently having a file format accepted as a standard does not mean that
    > everyone is free to use it, most of all to create files using it.
    > For one, Microsoft has chosen to specify MP3 as *the* audio format within
    > documents, and the MP3 format is still covered by patents
    > (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...80310153345250).


    That hasn't stopped OSS using mp3, so I don't suppose it will stop OO using
    OOXML.




  16. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!



    "marksouth" wrote in message
    news:47f4bba2$1_4@news.bluewin.ch...
    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:58:59 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
    >
    >> But as the OOXML format is an iso standard anyone can read or write it.

    >
    > Anyone who has time to read, comprehend, and retain over 6000 pages of
    > specification.


    I thought all linux users did that sort of thing with the source code.. its
    always claimed that there can be no nasties hidden as anyone can read the
    source which requires far more effort. 8-)


  17. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!



    "Moshe Goldfarb" wrote in message
    news:lzni2o8376pv$.bth47xrczgoq$.dlg@40tude.net...
    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:07:21 -0700, Frank wrote:
    >
    >> NoStop wrote:
    >>
    >>> chrisv wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>NoStop wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:20:32 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>That's a Roy Schestowitz administered site so I will not go there
    >>>>>>>>for fear of getting a virus or trojan or something.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Run Linux. You won't have to worry.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Sure.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Tell that to Roy Schestowitz who had his LINUX based website hacked
    >>>>>>and 0wned a couple of weeks ago.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>My advice to anyone is to use the OS that supports the
    >>>>>>>>applications you need to run.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Linux runs all the applications you need to run.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>No it doesn't.
    >>>>>>And it doesn't for a vast number of people which is why virtually
    >>>>>>nobody is using it as a desktop system.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Except for "viruses or trojans or something".
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>*snicker*
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>See Roy Schestowitz who had a trojan embedded in his website and was
    >>>>>>infecting God knows how many users who visted him.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Surely you mean Windoze users? If that is the case, maybe it was
    >>>>>there on purpose? So how many hours did it take for you to clean the
    >>>>>virus off your toy operating system? Was it fun Mr. Soap Suds?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Cheers.
    >>>>
    >>>>Windows users wouldn't visit Roy's site for any reason.
    >>>>It took Roy a few days to clean it up.
    >>>>No Windows users were infected.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Well obviously Mr. Soap Suds visited it and it runs Windoze.
    >>>
    >>> Cheers.
    >>>

    >> His linux server got hacked!...LOL!
    >> That's wonderful, don't you think so...LOL!
    >> Frank

    >
    > It was hysterical!
    >
    > That arrogant SOB, Roy Schestowitz was actually WARNED, weeks prior to the
    > final assault on his schestowitz.com site, that something strange was
    > going
    > on when people visited the site.
    >
    > Of course being the arrogant, narcissistic dweeb that Roy Schestowitz is,
    > he ignored it because "nothing can happen to me, I am Roy Schestowitz".


    What do you expect when he believes the linux is invulnerable lie that all
    the advocates use?

    >
    > Ultimately he got 0Wned and his home page was defaced.
    > Someone else put up a screen shot of the trojan that had been embedded in
    > Roy Schestowitz' site, www.schestowitz.com and that ws infecting users
    > stupid enough to visit that site.
    >
    > Schestowitz also administers www.groklaw.com and a few other sites.
    >
    > God knows what they are infected with due to his ineptness.


    Well if he ran windows he could get kaspersky to scan it for him.. its
    pretty good and would probably find most of the hacks and is constantly
    updated.

    Some people are too stupid to use anything other than windows, and Roy
    Schestowitz is one of them.


  18. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!



    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:FT4Jj.26101$dT.17252@bignews1.bellsouth.net.. .
    > * dennis@home peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> However it should be the web site owners choice.
    >>
    >> I wonder if lino (lino is an old fashioned oil based floor covering BTW)
    >> nut
    >> understands why he wrote a load of cr@p yet?

    >
    > I ask, again, what crap? The OP said nothing about restricting choice
    > in any shape, form, or fashion, yet dennis-the-menace claimed he did,
    > and I corrected him.


    You still haven't read it properly.. try again.




  19. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    chrisv wrote:

    > Gregory Shearman wrote:
    >
    >>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>
    >>> I would think that the question of whether a web designer
    >>> should have the choice of excluding 5%[*] or so of his
    >>> potential browsers is an interesting one. *It may depend
    >>> on the competitiveness of his desired market; if he decides
    >>> to exclude non-Windows browsers and his competitors don't,
    >>> and he is not the market leader, he'll probably get some
    >>> rather bad press from it all.

    >>
    >>Yes, the Australian Tax Office took the line that because most people used
    >>windows then a windows-base solution to online tax returns was adequate.

    >
    > Of course, that's downright stupid, lazy, and evil...


    I wouldn't go that far.

    Ignorant and shortsighted, yes. I suspect they put out a tender without
    really thinking through the requirements of what they were trying to
    achieve. They assumed that everyone used windows or had access to a windows
    machine. They didn't think about security implications of people using
    other people's computers to do their tax returns.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  20. Re: Linux hits 6.1% on March!

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, chrisv
    >
    > wrote
    > on Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:32:26 -0500
    > :
    >> Gregory Shearman wrote:
    >>
    >>>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I would think that the question of whether a web designer
    >>>> should have the choice of excluding 5%[*] or so of his
    >>>> potential browsers is an interesting one. *It may depend
    >>>> on the competitiveness of his desired market; if he decides
    >>>> to exclude non-Windows browsers and his competitors don't,
    >>>> and he is not the market leader, he'll probably get some
    >>>> rather bad press from it all.
    >>>
    >>>Yes, the Australian Tax Office took the line that because most people
    >>>used windows then a windows-base solution to online tax returns was
    >>>adequate.

    >>
    >> Of course, that's downright stupid, lazy, and evil...

    >
    > I agree that it's lazy. I'm inclined to agree on the
    > stupidity as well. As for evil -- well, evil's hard to
    > pinpoint, though one could make a case that the more
    > people are stupid and lazy, the more evil ensues.
    >
    > "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".
    > - Thomas Jefferson
    >
    > "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    > - Wendell Phillips
    >


    "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."

    - Unknown.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

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