Microsoft brand is in deep decline - Linux

This is a discussion on Microsoft brand is in deep decline - Linux ; "Ignoramus10476" stated in post LbadnQUXqZHcR3PanZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@giganews.com on 3/29/08 5:09 PM: > On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote: >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote: >> >>> Roy Schestowitz wrote: >>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from ...

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Thread: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

  1. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    "Ignoramus10476" stated in post
    LbadnQUXqZHcR3PanZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@giganews.com on 3/29/08 5:09 PM:

    > On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve
    >>>> with
    >>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>
    >>> M$ will never catch the iPod.

    >>
    >> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >> about?

    >
    > I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    > player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    > movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks
    > like a USB drive to the host computer.
    >
    > My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
    > spyware.


    Spyware? What spyware?

    > When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
    > birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
    > at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
    > types.
    >
    > i
    >
    >> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
    >>
    >> Where are they hiding?
    >>




    --
    Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers


  2. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Ignoramus10476 writes:

    > On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
    >>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>
    >>> M$ will never catch the iPod.

    >>
    >> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >> about?

    >
    > I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    > player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    > movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks


    Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
    compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
    use it.

    > like a USB drive to the host computer.


    Aha. So basic connectivity.

    >
    > My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
    > spyware.


    I see ..... *nurse meds please*.

    >
    > When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
    > birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
    > at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
    > types.
    >
    > i
    >
    >> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
    >>
    >> Where are they hiding?
    >>


    --
    Nothing says "I enjoy living with you" like the gift of
    3rd degree burns...
    except, of course, turning his bed into a trebuchet.
    That much effort must mean some sort of affection.

  3. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:57:11 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > Hadron wrote:
    >
    >> Christopher Hunter is another one of those "I can do it better"
    >> types. Constantly showing off how he used to work for .... MS!

    >
    > He also claims significant wealth. That's a boast you rarely find among
    > Linux "advocates".


    Yea.
    Most COLA Linux advocates are sponges.

    >
    >> Himself and Richard Rasker should share a room and compare war
    >> stories. They could invite Liarnut along to bore them to tears with
    >> stuff like "different programmers program at different rates" and "vim
    >> meets my needs".

    >
    > They'll have to ask Linonut's wife for permission. She runs that household.


    Obviously.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  4. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    NoStop writes:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:00:16 -0700, NoStop wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ignoramus17370 wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> IBM suffered a "much faster and more severe" decline in brand power in
    >>>> the early 1990s, Gregory said, and it took them 10 years to rebuild
    >>>> the brand's reputation. To stage a similar turnaround, Microsoft must
    >>>> have a clearer vision of the direction in which the company is headed
    >>>> and put forth leaders that people can trust to articulate that vision,
    >>>> he said.
    >>>>
    >>> What's wrong with Monkey Boy as the leader? Wouldn't you buy something
    >>> from this guy?
    >>>
    >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL4hyATkQ74
    >>>
    >>> Cheers.

    >>
    >>
    >> Would you base your business on software written by these guys?
    >>
    >> http://www.abiword.org/~abi/expo99/expo_02_010_full.jpg
    >>

    > Certainly BEFORE Monkey Boy. Anyone with half a brain would.
    >
    > Cheers.


    As you have just confirmed. Those of use with two halves prefer to base
    it based on the quality and ROI.

    --
    Nothing says "I enjoy living with you" like the gift of
    3rd degree burns...
    except, of course, turning his bed into a trebuchet.
    That much effort must mean some sort of affection.

  5. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Hadron wrote:

    > Christopher Hunter is another one of those "I can do it better"
    > types. Constantly showing off how he used to work for .... MS!


    He also claims significant wealth. That's a boast you rarely find among
    Linux "advocates".


    > Himself and Richard Rasker should share a room and compare war
    > stories. They could invite Liarnut along to bore them to tears with
    > stuff like "different programmers program at different rates" and "vim
    > meets my needs".


    They'll have to ask Linonut's wife for permission. She runs that household.




  6. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:09:37 -0500, Ignoramus10476 wrote:

    > On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>
    >>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to
    >>>> evolve with something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>
    >>> M$ will never catch the iPod.

    >>
    >> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >> about?

    >
    > I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie player.
    > To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch movies. It works
    > great and does not require any software, it looks like a USB drive to
    > the host computer.
    >
    > My major opposition to iPod is that it requires installing Apple
    > spyware.


    Actually, you don't have to instal any Apple software to use an iPod
    under Linux.

    >
    > When I bought it, I had no idea that it was linux based, it was just a
    > birthday present. The only tip that it was linux, was a GPL disclosure
    > at the end of the manual and the fact that it played all movie file
    > types.
    >
    > i
    >
    >> The Linux loons keep telling us they are iPod killers....
    >>
    >> Where are they hiding?
    >>






    --
    Rick

  7. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline


  8. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline


  9. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (aka: Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups

  10. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline


  11. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Moshe Goldfarb is flatfish (aka: Gary Stewart)

    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/...arb-troll.html
    http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/...ish-troll.html

    Traits:

    Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups

  12. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Wes Groleau wrote:
    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to
    >> evolve with
    >> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).

    >
    > M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >

    Who wants to?

  13. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    > > M$ will never catch the iPod.
    > Who wants to?


    Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

  14. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    > about?


    I've got two of them right here in front of me. Made by Commodore. Get a
    clue!

    C.


  15. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On 2008-03-30, Hadron wrote:
    > Ignoramus10476 writes:
    >
    >> On 2008-03-29, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:16:56 GMT, Wes Groleau wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >>>>> Microsoft will have to drop the "soft" from the brand and try to evolve with
    >>>>> something like "Zune" (Oh lordy!).
    >>>>
    >>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>
    >>> And where are all these Linux based iPod-like devices we keep hearing
    >>> about?

    >>
    >> I have one and it works very well. It is called Cowon A3 movie
    >> player. To be more precise, it is my wife's, as I do not watch
    >> movies. It works great and does not require any software, it looks

    >
    > Aha. So you know nothing about it. But it's "great". And your ability to
    > compare and contrast with similar devices is ? .... Oh yes. You do not
    > use it.


    Why, I saw it working.

    >> like a USB drive to the host computer.

    >
    > Aha. So basic connectivity.


    Yep. Try doing that with an ipod.

    i

  16. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>> M$ will never catch the iPod.

    >> Who wants to?

    >
    > Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.


    well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy market
    versus a stable application platform for professional users.

    I,,e, 'home entertainment centers' 'portable entertainment centres' and
    'machines that actually allow 3rd party apps to run, and do so stably
    and reliably'

    Neither Microsoft nor apple are really concentrating on the latter, are
    they?



  17. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:50:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    > Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>> Who wants to?

    >>
    >> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >
    > well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy market
    > versus a stable application platform for professional users.
    >


    It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).

    --
    Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

  18. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline, but Linux is on the rise

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    > Colin Wilson wrote:
    >
    >>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>
    >>> Who wants to?

    >>
    >> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >
    > well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy
    > market versus a stable application platform for professional
    > users.
    >
    > I,,e, 'home entertainment centers' 'portable entertainment
    > centres' and 'machines that actually allow 3rd party apps to
    > run, and do so stably and reliably'
    >
    > Neither Microsoft nor apple are really concentrating on the
    > latter, are they?


    One thing that is little spoken of is through its OS efforts,
    Microsoft killed innovation. I won't say early on it was
    intentionally done, because I think that would be reading a
    little too much into Monday morning quarterbacking.

    In the early 1980's, there was a booming home computer market.

    Business PC's were expensive, toy makers and electronic
    manufacturers concentrated on bringing computing power to the
    consumer.

    What one could buy for $4K in 1980's currency could buy for
    1/10th that, a home computer. Yes, they were slower, loaded from
    cassette tape for mass storage.

    However, people were learning how to program in BASIC, which was
    their native operating system. Much of that was through
    Microsoft BASIC, although some had other variants.

    Even small businesses were using home computing software to make
    things more efficient, because limited computing and data bases
    made sense over manual methods.

    Trolls rant about the amateurishness of some Linux applications.
    There was a thriving effort called freeware and shareware with
    home computers, which spilled into MS-DOS.

    The creation of the universal business PC called IBM PC clone, an
    Intel model was an open, not proprietary hardware model. With
    the creation of Microsoft MS-DOS at a reasonable price back then
    allowed one for a fraction of the cost of an IBM genuine article,
    now have business class computing power.

    That open hardware standard did alot to propel computing power
    into novice hands. There continued a lot of grass roots
    developments using GWBASIC. First iterations of Windows, the 3.x
    versions still retained GWBASIC because it was a part of the
    MS-DOS operating system.

    Reasonable cost software tools through 3rd parties like Borland,
    allowed software development to continue.

    There were computing clubs and cottage software industries abounding.

    Then something strange happened with Windows 95 and later
    variants. The very tools that allowed grass roots software
    developments evaporated. BASIC and debugging tools evaporated
    from the OS. This basically killed individual software effort
    and took software development out of the hands of the user.

    It was in essence, the dummy down of the populace. Now, software
    development tools were only for the professional at a substantial
    cost.

    Over time what has evolved is yes, we have professionally written
    applications and games that mimic the best simulators, which were
    once limited to aerospace companies and flight schools that could
    afford them.

    However, what was lost were the learning experiences into the
    operating system (spell proprietary - "no see, no touch"). The
    home user has become an applications rookie and games player.

    I am happy to report that Linux and other efforts such as Free
    BSD bring back the tools to enable grass roots developments once
    again.

    Whereas we had the open hardware model, the IBM PC clone, now we
    have the open software model.

    Linux has available to it all the software tools to make it an
    invariable learning laboratory, as well as an efficient platform
    for launching professionally written applications AND despite of
    troll rants, professionally written games.

    OpenOffice and its commercial offering StarOffice ARE
    professionally written. I was impressed that it was able to open
    a password protected Microsoft office Word file I had.

    This is why it is important that efforts such as OLPC remain as a
    Linux OS software effort. Children again have opportunities as
    they had with the home computers 28 years ago, to explore the
    operating system, write their own applications and learn about
    data bases.

    That is more valuable than learning to use proprietary applications.

    The world once again needs to have available to it the software
    tools to develop younger minds prior to college, to learn
    software development.

    That encompasses more that just Visual BASIC. May the rants begin.

    --
    HPT

  19. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Baho Utot wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:50:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >
    >> Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>> Who wants to?
    >>> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >> well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the toy market
    >> versus a stable application platform for professional users.
    >>

    >
    > It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows(what ever).
    >

    Well it ought to have done, but it didn't. The majority of professional
    applications beyond the WP/spreadsheet/database/email/browser type of
    stuff stayed with windows.

    Its no use proclaiming that windows is a toy. I know that, you know
    that, we all know that. The real issue is how to persuade all those 3rd
    party applications writers to port their applications to a real
    operating system.

    RedHat tried, but its not been a conspicuous success.

    And to an extent the open source nature of Linux, with the whole shebang
    being a rapidly moving target of a dozen different distros, makes it far
    far harder for application developers to nail their colours exactly on
    the one mast. There are more than one to nail it too. Then add in all
    the window managers..and you start to see the problems.

    Windos great strength was never that it was any good technically. It
    never was, but it did one thing right: It set a standard. If you got
    your code working with windows it would work pretty much n any PC for
    the next few years. In a more or less predictable way.


    I don't know what the answer to that is, or should be, but that is the
    *problem*, for sure.

    The day I can e.g. get a box from a vendor labeled 'GrootSplat
    interactive development tool for aerodynamic modelling' with the magic
    words underneath :-

    'Runs on all Linux distros'

    will be the day I scrub XP off the PC hard drive..as it were.

    Perhaps if the Linux community spent less time on fancy window managers,
    and more tome developing and SELLING API's that mimicked the windows
    API, that would happen.

    Applications sell operating systems. Not the other way around.

    Microsoft isn't an operating system. Its a standard API for people to
    code agansts. ONE standard. You can regard javascript/XML/HTML as
    another, and thats where a lot of linux penetration can happen..we have
    cross platform interoperability with broswers.

    But alas, not with API's. I dont want to run windows in a box on Linux.
    I want to run current windows only programs on linux natively.

    Crack that nut and Microsoft is gone from the professional and office
    evironment forever.






  20. Re: Microsoft brand is in deep decline

    Baho Utot wrote:
    > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    >> Colin Wilson wrote:
    >>
    >>>>> M$ will never catch the iPod.
    >>>>
    >>>> Who wants to?
    >>>
    >>> Zune - Microsoft obviously want(ed) to.

    >>
    >> well, perhaps its time for computing to fork off, into the
    >> toy market versus a stable application platform for
    >> professional users.

    >
    > It did fork off into a toy market....It's called Windows
    > (what ever).


    Do you mean the large fork and spoon in the dining room? :-)

    That effort is bangsit compared to Linux, which is bangsit
    opposite. Linux adds flavour, like Bagoong Alamang. It is the
    Ampalaya, the Patis of life. :-)

    --
    HPT

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