Re: Spent some time in Linux today... - Linux

This is a discussion on Re: Spent some time in Linux today... - Linux ; On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:09:41 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason wrote: > On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:53:21 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch wrote: >> • Multiple Monitors still half-assed. Doesn't treat screens as >> individual units, and has just one giant desktop. ...

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Thread: Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

  1. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:09:41 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason
    wrote:

    > On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:53:21 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:


    >> • Multiple Monitors still half-assed. Doesn't treat screens as
    >> individual units, and has just one giant desktop.

    >
    > Configurable. Most multi-monitor users, including myself, prefer one
    > desktop stretched across two monitors, but that's not the only option.


    The way XrandR and stuff like TwinView do it seems kind of sub-optimal
    to me if you have different resolutions on each monitor. You have
    basically one big framebuffer with multiple viewports, and the smaller
    monitor ends up not being able to see part of it's section of the
    buffer. Or else it has to scroll, which I hate.

    I like the way Xinerama does it, but it has other issues.

    Much as I hate to say it, Funkenbusch has a point. The state of multi
    monitor support on X isn't all that great right now. As XrandR matures
    it should get better, but it has a way to go.


    --
    -| Bob Hauck
    -| http://www.haucks.org/

  2. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    * Bob Hauck peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:09:41 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:53:21 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    >
    >>> ? Multiple Monitors still half-assed. Doesn't treat screens as
    >>> individual units, and has just one giant desktop.

    >>
    >> Configurable. Most multi-monitor users, including myself, prefer one
    >> desktop stretched across two monitors, but that's not the only option.

    >
    > The way XrandR and stuff like TwinView do it seems kind of sub-optimal
    > to me if you have different resolutions on each monitor. You have
    > basically one big framebuffer with multiple viewports, and the smaller
    > monitor ends up not being able to see part of it's section of the
    > buffer. Or else it has to scroll, which I hate.
    >
    > I like the way Xinerama does it, but it has other issues.
    >
    > Much as I hate to say it, Funkenbusch has a point. The state of multi
    > monitor support on X isn't all that great right now. As XrandR matures
    > it should get better, but it has a way to go.


    It's actually kind of a pedant point, though.

    I'm using two different-sized monitors right now. Some apps are well
    behaved, others are not.

    --

  3. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:31:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > I'm using two different-sized monitors right now. Some apps are well
    > behaved, others are not.


    That is exactly the problem. X used to have reasonable multi-monitor
    support with Xinerama and dual-head modes. Most everything worked as it
    was supposed to with those. You had to manually configure it, but at
    least it worked well once configured.

    Then all this 3D stuff (Compiz etc) and things like smart monitors that
    tell the video card their capabilites came along. Those things don't
    interact well with the older way of doing things. So there's a new way
    of handling monitors that does get along with the fancy new features,
    but it is still immature.

    Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    moment. It will get better again in time.


    --
    -| Bob Hauck
    -| http://www.haucks.org/

  4. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    Bob Hauck writes:

    > On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:31:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> I'm using two different-sized monitors right now. Some apps are well
    >> behaved, others are not.

    >
    > That is exactly the problem. X used to have reasonable multi-monitor
    > support with Xinerama and dual-head modes. Most everything worked as it
    > was supposed to with those. You had to manually configure it, but at
    > least it worked well once configured.
    >
    > Then all this 3D stuff (Compiz etc) and things like smart monitors that
    > tell the video card their capabilites came along. Those things don't
    > interact well with the older way of doing things. So there's a new way
    > of handling monitors that does get along with the fancy new features,
    > but it is still immature.
    >
    > Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    > moment. It will get better again in time.


    Good of you to be honest Bob. I mentioned this stuff a year ago and got
    called a liar. Ray even pointed me to non ubuntu specific Xinerama stuff
    which was nothing to do with Xorg but rather XFree. But it HAS got a lot
    better with NVidia. The best thing recently in the NVidia settings
    interface is not its inabiltiy to size itself properly when you first
    open it, but rather you can specify the main x screen - I had hell of a
    trouble before keeping my TV "on the left" of the monitors before they
    added/got working this feature.


    --
    modconf (0.2.37) stable unstable; urgency=medium
    [...]
    * Eduard Bloch:
    - fixed Makefile broken Marcin Owsiany a while ago. The default manpage
    has been overwritten with the polish translation. I still wonder why
    nobody noticed this before. Closes: #117474
    [...]
    -- Eduard Bloch Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:53:27 +0100

  5. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:29:09 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Bob Hauck writes:
    >
    >> On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:31:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'm using two different-sized monitors right now. Some apps are well
    >>> behaved, others are not.

    >>
    >> That is exactly the problem. X used to have reasonable multi-monitor
    >> support with Xinerama and dual-head modes. Most everything worked as it
    >> was supposed to with those. You had to manually configure it, but at
    >> least it worked well once configured.
    >>
    >> Then all this 3D stuff (Compiz etc) and things like smart monitors that
    >> tell the video card their capabilites came along. Those things don't
    >> interact well with the older way of doing things. So there's a new way
    >> of handling monitors that does get along with the fancy new features,
    >> but it is still immature.
    >>
    >> Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    >> moment. It will get better again in time.

    >
    > Good of you to be honest Bob. I mentioned this stuff a year ago and got
    > called a liar. Ray even pointed me to non ubuntu specific Xinerama stuff
    > which was nothing to do with Xorg but rather XFree. But it HAS got a lot
    > better with NVidia. The best thing recently in the NVidia settings
    > interface is not its inabiltiy to size itself properly when you first
    > open it, but rather you can specify the main x screen - I had hell of a
    > trouble before keeping my TV "on the left" of the monitors before they
    > added/got working this feature.


    bob Hauck is a reasonable Linux advocate.
    He's been here for ages, mostly lurking, but he pops up once in a while.

    What Linux needs to do is make multiple monitor support as easy as it is
    with Windows.

    A couple of clicks and it is done.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  6. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    * Bob Hauck peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    > moment. It will get better again in time.


    It works pretty well right now, though, ignoring 3-D issues.

    (I have yet to try compiz; the concept doesn't excite me enough.)

    --
    Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning.
    -- Bill Gates, Business @ The Speed of Thought (1999)

  7. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    Linonut writes:

    > * Bob Hauck peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    >> moment. It will get better again in time.

    >
    > It works pretty well right now, though, ignoring 3-D issues.


    Just as the thread was honest and frank, in comes Liarnut with a totally
    pointless post. Especially since all the 3d "just works" for me - its
    other stuff that is missing.

    >
    > (I have yet to try compiz; the concept doesn't excite me enough.)


    Aha! He doesn't even know anything about the thing he speaks! Nothing
    new there then!


    --
    in a stunning new move I actually tested this upload

  8. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:14:47 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Linonut writes:
    >
    >> * Bob Hauck peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    >>> moment. It will get better again in time.

    >>
    >> It works pretty well right now, though, ignoring 3-D issues.

    >
    > Just as the thread was honest and frank, in comes Liarnut with a totally
    > pointless post. Especially since all the 3d "just works" for me - its
    > other stuff that is missing.
    >
    >>
    >> (I have yet to try compiz; the concept doesn't excite me enough.)

    >
    > Aha! He doesn't even know anything about the thing he speaks! Nothing
    > new there then!


    He has to follow the script his master (Roy Schestowitz) gave him.

    I love stuff like "it works pretty well right now though, ignoring the 3D
    issues".

    It's a classic example of how the Linux community is willing to settle for
    less and how the "works for me" excuse generally has many strings attached
    to it.

    Could you imagine buying an audio system for your car and then learning
    that the CD player doesn't play any CD's longer than 30 minutes but new
    firmware to fix the problem is coming "real soon now".

    That's what Linux is like every day of the week.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  9. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut

    wrote
    on Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:09:34 -0400
    :
    > * Bob Hauck peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    >> moment. It will get better again in time.

    >
    > It works pretty well right now, though, ignoring 3-D issues.


    Ignoring 3D issues ensures that Linux is called obsolete,
    since Windows has had DirectX for years.

    >
    > (I have yet to try compiz; the concept doesn't excite me enough.)
    >


    3D has its plusses for games. Not sure about compiz
    myself, though; *its* main plus is that it's a neat hack. ;-)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733:
    bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;}

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  10. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    In article ,
    Bob Hauck wrote:
    > Much as I hate to say it, Funkenbusch has a point. The state of multi
    > monitor support on X isn't all that great right now. As XrandR matures
    > it should get better, but it has a way to go.


    Apple's been doing it well for over 20 years. How long does it take to
    look at that and copy it?

    --
    --Tim Smith

  11. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    "Tim Smith" stated in post
    reply_in_group-17C1D3.16475025032008@news.supernews.com on 3/25/08 4:47 PM:

    > In article ,
    > Bob Hauck wrote:
    >> Much as I hate to say it, Funkenbusch has a point. The state of multi
    >> monitor support on X isn't all that great right now. As XrandR matures
    >> it should get better, but it has a way to go.

    >
    > Apple's been doing it well for over 20 years. How long does it take to
    > look at that and copy it?


    One of the problems Apple has is the single menu - that works great for
    single monitors, especially smaller ones, but with dual monitors becoming
    more and more common I would like to see Apple handle that better.


    --
    What do you call people who are afraid of Santa Claus? Claustrophobic.


  12. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > In article ,
    > Bob Hauck wrote:
    >> Much as I hate to say it, Funkenbusch has a point. The state of multi
    >> monitor support on X isn't all that great right now. As XrandR matures
    >> it should get better, but it has a way to go.

    >
    > Apple's been doing it well for over 20 years. How long does it take to
    > look at that and copy it?


    Apparently, copying the way Apple does "it" is somehow not desirable, or
    it would have been done by now.

    How long has Apple had multiple displays (:0, :1, :2, etc) and
    multiple-monitor support? They are not the same thing.

    --
    The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to
    factor large prime numbers.
    -- Bill Gates, The Road Ahead (1995), hardcover edition (corrected in
    paperback)

  13. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...


  14. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...


  15. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...


  16. Re: Spent some time in Linux today...

    On 2008-03-25, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut
    >
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:09:34 -0400
    >:
    >> * Bob Hauck peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> Hence, my comment that multi-monitor support isn't all that great at the
    >>> moment. It will get better again in time.

    >>
    >> It works pretty well right now, though, ignoring 3-D issues.

    >
    > Ignoring 3D issues ensures that Linux is called obsolete,
    > since Windows has had DirectX for years.


    It's DIRECT 3D.

    If you are going to whine about it. At least get the details right.

    [deletia]

    Also, proper acceleration support is rather distinct from what the API is.
    It's a different problem. You can have borked hardware acceleration support
    under windows and the 3D api will still be available (or at least should be).

    3D is primarily for games. The value of OpenGL/SDI basically boils down
    to how much you value your PC as a gaming machine.

    --
    NO! There are no CODICILES of Fight Club! |||
    / | \
    That way leads to lawyers and business megacorps and credit cards!

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