[News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH .... - Linux

This is a discussion on [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH .... - Linux ; http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/ful...asp?edid=25529 India Rejects Microsoft's OOXML Format Swapnil Bhartiya, EFY News Network (Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:33:23 PM) The BIS Committee has rejected the OOXML format. Thursday, March 20, 2008: The BIS LITD 15 Committee has rejected Microsoft's document format OOXML. ...

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  1. [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/ful...asp?edid=25529

    India Rejects Microsoft's OOXML Format Swapnil Bhartiya, EFY News Network
    (Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:33:23 PM)

    The BIS Committee has rejected the OOXML format.

    Thursday, March 20, 2008: The BIS LITD 15 Committee has rejected
    Microsoft's document format OOXML. According to sources, out of 19
    members, five of them did not attend the meeting, one of them abstained,
    five voted in favour of OOXML and the rest voted against. The meeting took
    place today in Delhi at the BIS office.

    Microsoft has released a statement which says, "While we are disappointed
    with the decision of the BIS LITD 15 committee, we are very encouraged by
    the support of IT industry players like NASSCOM, TCS, Wipro and Infosys
    who voted in favour of Open XML becoming an ISO standard. Further, the
    Indian government, industry stalwarts and trade bodies have supported
    multiple standards and technology neutrality. We will therefore continue
    to work with the government to address any concerns they may have and to
    achieve its stated goal of technology neutrality. We are committed to
    working towards what is best for the Indian IT industry."

    The statement is contradictory in itself where Microsoft is talking about
    neutrality. The European Union (EU) has worked really hard to neutralise
    most of Microsoft's antics. Microsoft's openness seems less out of desire
    and more out of growing power of FOSS movement and legal pressure by the
    EU. Neelie Kroes, Competition Commissioner, EU said last month, "Today,
    the European Commission has imposed a substantial fine, to be precise
    €899 million ($1.35 billion), on Microsoft for its non-compliance up
    until 27 October 2007 with its obligations under the Commission's March
    2004 decision to provide interoperability information on reasonable terms."

    Total penalties against Microsoft now stand tall at around $2.5 billion.
    Hmmm .... I don't see a clear win ....

    http://www.computerworlduk.com/manag...fm?newsid=6124

    or http://tinyurl.com/27ycq9

    November 09, 2007
    Linux wins Nigerian school desktops back from Microsoft Government thwarts
    supplier's plan to install Windows XP

    By Jeremy Kirk, IDG News Service

    Microsoft may not have beaten French Linux vendor Mandriva in a large deal
    to supply Nigerian elementary schools with laptop computers and software
    after all.

    Mandriva had closed a deal in mid-August to provide a customised Linux
    operating system and support for 17,000 Intel Classmate PCs intended for
    Nigerian schools, but found out last week that the company deploying the
    computers for the government, Technology Support Center (TSC), planned to
    wipe the computers' disks and install Windows XP instead.

    Now, however, a government agency funding 11,000 of the PCs has overruled
    the supplier. Nigeria's Universal Service Provision Fund (USPF) wants to
    keep Mandriva Linux on the Classmate PCs, said an official who identified
    himself as the programme manager for USPF's Classmate PCs project.
    Definitely not a Microsoft "clear" win ....

    http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conte...to_google.html

    or http://snipurl.com/22eoz

    Luckovsky isn't sparing harsh words for his former employer, however,
    pointing fingers at everything from Microsoft's difficulties in shipping
    software to its users on time, to its policy of requiring users to
    validate that they have non-pirated versions of Windows in order to obtain
    fixes and downloads.

    In a blog posting dated February 12, Lucovsky railed against Microsoft for
    being unable to ship software.

    "I am not sure I believe anymore, that Microsoft 'knows how to ship
    software,'" Lucovsky wrote.

    "Microsoft is supposed to be the one that 'knows how to ship software,'
    but you (the end user) are the one doing all the heavy lifting. You are
    the one that has to ship their software the last mile, install it on end
    user machines, ensure their machines still work after you perform this
    platform level surgery," he continued.

    "I would argue that Microsoft used to know how to ship software, but the
    world has changed... The companies that 'know how to ship software' are
    the ones to watch. They have embraced the network, deeply understand the
    concept of 'software as a service,' and know how to deliver incredible
    value to their customers efficiently and quickly," Lucovsky added.

    Lucovsky wrote positively about Amazon.com's model for delivering new
    software bits to its customers.

    When Amazon makes a fix to its software, "not a single customer had to
    download a bag of bits, answer any silly questions, prove that they are
    not software thieves, reboot their computers, etc. The software was
    shipped to them, and they didn't have to lift a finger. Now that's what I
    call shipping software," Lucovsky said.
    Again, not a clear win ....


    --
    HPT
    Riding since 1979. Current stable:
    1987 Suzuki LS650 Savage
    1971 Honda CB100

  2. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    In article ,
    alt wrote:
    > The only "Winners" if OOXML becomes a standard is Microsoft (but I
    > suspect this will be a short term win). Everyone else will lose:
    >
    > The consumers because they'll lose choice in applications as well as lost
    > control of their data.


    How do consumers lose choice of applications? There are already several
    non-MS applications that support OOXML. There are at least two or three
    fully open-source projects for reading and writing OOXML from OpenOffice.

    --
    --Tim Smith

  3. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > In article ,
    > alt wrote:
    >> The only "Winners" if OOXML becomes a standard is Microsoft (but I
    >> suspect this will be a short term win). Everyone else will lose:
    >>
    >> The consumers because they'll lose choice in applications as well as lost
    >> control of their data.

    >
    > How do consumers lose choice of applications? There are already several
    > non-MS applications that support OOXML. There are at least two or three
    > fully open-source projects for reading and writing OOXML from OpenOffice.


    The same way that many people won't/can't choose OpenOffice because it
    can't render all Microsoft-based documents flawlessly.

    Only, with OOXML ratified, Microsoft won't have to say they are the "de
    facto standard". They can say they are "standard", and their product
    can once again used to resolve RFPs.

    --
    Microsoft has had clear competitors in the past. It's a good thing we have
    museums to document that.
    -- Bill Gates, Speech at the Computer History Museum, as quoted in InfoWorld
    magazine (October 2001)

  4. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:25:47 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > The same way that many people won't/can't choose OpenOffice because it
    > can't render all Microsoft-based documents flawlessly.


    And on top of that it is slow as molasses.
    People aren't interested in putting their jobs on the line just for the joy
    of running OpenOffice and becoming a member of some wacked out community
    like we see here in COLA.

    Real work gets done with MSOffice every day and until Open Office can
    somehow entice people to switch, it will remain a niche product no matter
    how good it might be.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  5. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    Moshe Goldfarb writes:

    > On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:25:47 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> The same way that many people won't/can't choose OpenOffice because it
    >> can't render all Microsoft-based documents flawlessly.

    >
    > And on top of that it is slow as molasses.
    > People aren't interested in putting their jobs on the line just for the joy
    > of running OpenOffice and becoming a member of some wacked out community
    > like we see here in COLA.
    >
    > Real work gets done with MSOffice every day and until Open Office can
    > somehow entice people to switch, it will remain a niche product no matter
    > how good it might be.


    Didn't "sane" Thad reckon some people thought OO had 27% of the Market
    or similar?

    LOL.

    --
    dackel: in general the *only* way to use a computer program
    is to execute it. have you *ever* known a system utility whose
    documentation recommended either deleting it, or throwing it
    at a farm animal?
    zedboy: Ummm... yes
    dackel: install the manpages package. it should be there
    already tho.
    dackel: example of such a bovine utility?
    * greycat wants a video of dackel throwing /usr/bin/file at a cow

  6. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:34:54 +0100, Hadron wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb writes:
    >
    >> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:25:47 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> The same way that many people won't/can't choose OpenOffice because it
    >>> can't render all Microsoft-based documents flawlessly.

    >>
    >> And on top of that it is slow as molasses.
    >> People aren't interested in putting their jobs on the line just for the joy
    >> of running OpenOffice and becoming a member of some wacked out community
    >> like we see here in COLA.
    >>
    >> Real work gets done with MSOffice every day and until Open Office can
    >> somehow entice people to switch, it will remain a niche product no matter
    >> how good it might be.

    >
    > Didn't "sane" Thad reckon some people thought OO had 27% of the Market
    > or similar?
    >
    > LOL.


    Maybe according to one of Roy Schestowitz's "reliable sources" it has 27 %
    but no place else.

    Maybe things are different in EU but here in USA I have never seen Open
    Office in the wild.

    BTW a *reliable source* informed me that Roy Schestowitz's "reliable
    sources" are the voices in his head.

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  7. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....


  8. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    Hadron wrote:
    >
    > Didn't "sane" Thad reckon some people thought OO had 27% of the Market
    > or similar?
    >
    > LOL.


    I don't recall any of the studies I referenced mentioned anything that
    high. I think they ranged from 6% up to 19% depending on which slice
    of the market you were looking at (i.e. enterprise, small/medium
    business, or home).

    I'm curious, what do you think the market share of OO is and what
    evidence to have to suggest it?

    Thad
    --
    Yeah, I drank the Open Source cool-aid... Unlike the other brand, it had
    all the ingredients on the label.

  9. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:
    > Hadron wrote:


    >> Didn't "sane" Thad reckon some people thought OO had 27% of the
    >> Market or similar?


    It wasn't "some people", it was Alfresco (Enterprise Content
    Management). And their "thought" was actually a /survey/ with a sample
    of 35,000, of which *24%* responded that they used OpenOffice.org:

    One of the most interesting additions to the survey this year is a
    question about which office suite people use. Overall, OpenOffice.org
    chalks up a very respectable 24% to Microsoft Office's 66%. This is a
    much higher penetration than I would have guessed for open source on the
    desktop, and suggests that among those adopting open source programs
    OpenOffice.org is doing really well – pretty much at the Firefox level
    of success.
    http://www.computerworlduk.com/commu...=475&blogid=14

    >> LOL.


    Yes Rhonda, you're an idiot.

    > I'm curious, what do you think the market share of OO is


    Not low enough to satisfy his delusions, apparently.

    > and what evidence to have to suggest it?


    As usual, nothing.

    --
    K.
    http://slated.org

    ..----
    | 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
    | ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
    `----

    Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
    00:58:57 up 94 days, 22:34, 5 users, load average: 0.00, 0.30, 0.34

  10. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:06:54 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > [H]omer wrote:
    >> thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:
    >>> Hadron wrote:

    >>
    >>>> Didn't "sane" Thad reckon some people thought OO had 27% of the
    >>>> Market or similar?

    >>
    >> It wasn't "some people", it was Alfresco (Enterprise Content
    >> Management). And their "thought" was actually a /survey/ with a sample
    >> of 35,000, of which *24%* responded that they used OpenOffice.org:

    >
    > It wasn't a real survey. It was opt-in data provided by 35,000 Alfresco
    > community members (whatever those are).
    >
    > If you go by the results of this "survey" - and I'm very sure you cola
    > clowns will put a lot of faith in it - you find Linux has 51% of the OS
    > market and MySQL has 60% of the database market. Sure thing.
    >
    > http://www.alfresco.com/community/barometer/


    Yea that's like those surveys that say stuff like "are you planning on
    deploying Linux within the next year ? "

    Most large companies have Linux "someplace" in their infrastructure and
    most likely will have at least one more Linux system in the next year.

    So those surveys come out looking real good for Linux.
    However, the part that gets left out is they have 8000 Windows machines and
    may be deploying one Linux machine.


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  11. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:26:54 -0500, DFS wrote:

    > Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    >
    >> Yea that's like those surveys that say stuff like "are you planning on
    >> deploying Linux within the next year ? "

    >
    > And when 58% (or whatever portion) of these firms say they will be deploying
    > an open source solution in the next year, little nutjob 7 blares "58% of all
    > new projects are open source!".
    >
    > Unfortunately life is short and tough, and while these Linux/OSS lusers sit
    > around telling lies about MS and hoping against hope that MS will fold, the
    > rest of the world gets on with their closed-source business.


    And who would know better about closed source than our own Mark Kent!
    Rabid Linux *advocate* by night and proprietary software user by day.


    "At BT Global, our crown jewels are the services we supply to our
    customers. With jNetX we own the intellectual property for our services,
    allowing us to evolve the services as and when required."

    Mark Kent
    Head of Technology Strategy

    http://www.jnetx.com/index.php?id=products

    https://solutionfinder.microsoft.com...10ba73b82dbdb4

    http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...dbox_Demo.pptx


    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  12. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    [H]omer wrote:
    > thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:
    >> Hadron wrote:

    >
    >>> Didn't "sane" Thad reckon some people thought OO had 27% of the
    >>> Market or similar?

    >
    > It wasn't "some people", it was Alfresco (Enterprise Content
    > Management). And their "thought" was actually a /survey/ with a sample
    > of 35,000, of which *24%* responded that they used OpenOffice.org:


    It wasn't a real survey. It was opt-in data provided by 35,000 Alfresco
    community members (whatever those are).

    If you go by the results of this "survey" - and I'm very sure you cola
    clowns will put a lot of faith in it - you find Linux has 51% of the OS
    market and MySQL has 60% of the database market. Sure thing.

    http://www.alfresco.com/community/barometer/







  13. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

    > Yea that's like those surveys that say stuff like "are you planning on
    > deploying Linux within the next year ? "


    And when 58% (or whatever portion) of these firms say they will be deploying
    an open source solution in the next year, little nutjob 7 blares "58% of all
    new projects are open source!".

    Unfortunately life is short and tough, and while these Linux/OSS lusers sit
    around telling lies about MS and hoping against hope that MS will fold, the
    rest of the world gets on with their closed-source business.





  14. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:

    >rat:
    >>
    >> but their market "share" is still zero.

    >
    >How many times are you going to going to keep bringing up this
    >ridiculous claim. Crack open any basic econ text book and it will
    >tell you there are two primary measures of market share, revenue
    >and units. It has been explained to you many times that we are
    >referring to unit numbers when dealing with OSS products like
    >Linux and OpenOffice, so I don't know why you continue to pretend
    >you don't understand this point.


    Indeed.

    "amicus_curious" is a liar. "amicus_curious" is a piece of ****.


  15. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....


  16. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....


  17. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    chrisv wrote:

    > thad05@tux.glaci.delete-this.com wrote:
    >
    >>rat:
    >>>
    >>> but their market "share" is still zero.

    >>
    >>How many times are you going to going to keep bringing up this
    >>ridiculous claim. Crack open any basic econ text book and it will
    >>tell you there are two primary measures of market share, revenue
    >>and units. It has been explained to you many times that we are
    >>referring to unit numbers when dealing with OSS products like
    >>Linux and OpenOffice, so I don't know why you continue to pretend
    >>you don't understand this point.

    >
    > Indeed.
    >
    > "amicus_curious" is a liar. "amicus_curious" is a piece of ****.


    "amicus_curious" aka billwg aka Bill Weisgerber, is just showing how incredibly
    thick he is.

    Google for Bill Weisgerber and you will see that this twat has done
    his shill service for MS for years, always in the same *extremely* dishonest
    way.

    --
    Mandriva 1 - 2008 - RC2 - 64bit OS.
    COLA trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/

  18. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    William Poaster wrote:

    >chrisv wrote:
    >>
    >> "amicus_curious" is a liar. "amicus_curious" is a piece of ****.

    >
    >"amicus_curious" aka billwg aka Bill Weisgerber, is just showing how incredibly
    >thick he is.
    >
    >Google for Bill Weisgerber and you will see that this twat has done
    >his shill service for MS for years, always in the same *extremely* dishonest
    >way.


    billwg is a liar. billwg is a piece of ****.


  19. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....

    On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:19:40 -0500, chrisv wrote:

    > William Poaster wrote:
    >
    >>chrisv wrote:
    >>>
    >>> "amicus_curious" is a liar. "amicus_curious" is a piece of ****.

    >>
    >>"amicus_curious" aka billwg aka Bill Weisgerber, is just showing how incredibly
    >>thick he is.
    >>
    >>Google for Bill Weisgerber and you will see that this twat has done
    >>his shill service for MS for years, always in the same *extremely* dishonest
    >>way.

    >
    > billwg is a liar. billwg is a piece of ****.


    And Mark Kent is?

    A Microsoft partner who extols the virtues of intellectual property by day
    and criticizes the concept and people who are for the concept by night.

    So what would you call Mark Kent?



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  20. Re: [News] Linux is a clear winner, but OTOH ....


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