cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux - Linux

This is a discussion on cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux - Linux ; "Linonut" wrote in message news:8gNGj.25873$rC6.4989@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . >* Tim Slattery peremptorily fired off this memo: > >> Linonut wrote: >> >>>> MS MVP(Shell/User) >> >>>Does the above mean you're a shell expert? >> >> It means that MS changes the MVP ...

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Thread: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

  1. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:8gNGj.25873$rC6.4989@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. .
    >* Tim Slattery peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>>> MS MVP(Shell/User)

    >>
    >>>Does the above mean you're a shell expert?

    >>
    >> It means that MS changes the MVP categories faster than I can keep up!
    >>
    >>>What's your favorite shell? tsh? csh? zsh? ksh? bash? Or zoidberg?

    >>
    >> Kornshell, when I use Unix.

    >
    > I've gotten used to bash, but I really need to discipline myself to
    > write bare-bones sh scripts.


    I use bash with Cygwin and MSYS. Great shell.


  2. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    Linonut writes:

    > * Tim Slattery peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>>> MS MVP(Shell/User)

    >>
    >>>Does the above mean you're a shell expert?

    >>
    >> It means that MS changes the MVP categories faster than I can keep up!
    >>
    >>>What's your favorite shell? tsh? csh? zsh? ksh? bash? Or zoidberg?

    >>
    >> Kornshell, when I use Unix.

    >
    > I've gotten used to bash, but I really need to discipline myself to
    > write bare-bones sh scripts.


    Come one then Liarnut - tell us why. Or are you just bandying words
    around to show off again?

  3. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    AqD writes:

    > On Mar 27, 3:50*am, Jim Richardson wrote:
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> > WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >> > eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >> > he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >> > benefits it brings.

    >>
    >> An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    >> typing won't affect productivitiy.


    It won't. Did you never hear of multitasking/threading? Do you REALLY
    think that a few ms of CPU time used when typing is going to have any
    adverse affect? do you? YO do know it wont hold up your typing dont you?
    And a few ms used up to calculate things like class trees etc as you
    type is nothing from the otherwise wasted bandwidth?

    Dear me Jim. You seem to get more clueless with every attempt to support
    a supposed "advocate".

    These IDEs are good- and its why people use them.

    Me? I don't like big heavy IDEs as a general rule and tend to use Emacs -
    but it sure ain't for the beginner. Actually, I will rephrase that : I
    see it as a challenge to keep using Emacs for these things.

    > Those big java IDEs don't run well on old computers. But if you can
    > pay for those expensive softwares, can't you pay for a new PC?


    And, when they're loaded they're ok.

    >
    > BTW it's not a few ms, the whole checking process (or the auto


    Its a few ms on a fast CPU - but lets not quibble. Its done in the bg
    most of the time and on a decent PC which any developer SHOULD have then
    the cost/benefit analysis ensures that these features are very welcome.

    > building/make in eclipse) is quiet CPU intensive; although it's done
    > in background, one can still feel that slowness on an old pc like mine
    > (sempron 2.4g). But the productivity it brings worths everything - and


    Yes!

    > those features are what most free IDEs/editors don't have - or cannot
    > have unless you really have a lot of developers to put into that part .


    --
    Looks like the channel is back to normal
    You mean it's not scrolling faster than anyone can read?
    -- Seen on #Debian after the release of Debian 2.0

  4. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux


    "Jim Richardson" wrote in message
    news:12mqb5-vkd.ln1@dragon.myth...
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:38:25 +0100,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >> Linonut writes:
    >>
    >>> * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> Have you ever tried Code-Forge, or SlickEdit, or X-develop?
    >>>
    >>> Nah, just Visual Studio and CodeWright.
    >>>
    >>>> In code-forge, you can have code analysis and true c++ auto-completion
    >>>> (it even takes macros into account), and the project orgenizer can let
    >>>> you edit complex dependencies in make, though not automake'ed I think
    >>>>
    >>>> SlickEdit gives you refactorying for C++, so you can rename or move a
    >>>> method in the whole project, without worrying about other related
    >>>> code.
    >>>>
    >>>> X-develop has background checking - not only syntax, but also missing
    >>>> method/variable, duplicated code parts, etc - when you're typing. So
    >>>> before you ever make/compile you could already fix most errors.
    >>>>
    >>>> They're designed for linux/unix or cross-platoform, but less known to
    >>>> most developers, and probably never recommended by anyone who use
    >>>> linux - because they're not free.
    >>>
    >>> That stuff's cool, but you pay a price for it in speed.

    >>
    >> And here we see more bull**** from Liarnut.
    >>
    >> Speed?
    >>
    >> WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >> eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >> he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >> benefits it brings.
    >>

    >
    >
    > An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    > typing won't affect productivitiy.


    Are you talking about "a few ms" _total_ delay or "a few ms" delay between
    each keystroke. Even on hardware from the 1990's the delay per keystroke was
    in the microseconds. On modern hardware it's in the very, very, very low
    microseconds per keystroke.


    >> He is totally clueless as usual.

    >
    >
    > and again, Hadron manages to strain the irony meter.
    >
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
    >
    > iD8DBQFH6qkhd90bcYOAWPYRAn5LAKCfs0jwbrpW8a4DhdmLLf 4CU5o1iQCfck77
    > YC9kVgo2m37X0zB0YBnr0/M=
    > =epLq
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    >
    > --
    > Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    > Payday came and with it beer.
    > -- Rudyard Kipling




    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  5. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    "Ezekiel" writes:

    > "Jim Richardson" wrote in message
    > news:12mqb5-vkd.ln1@dragon.myth...
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:38:25 +0100,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> Linonut writes:
    >>>
    >>>> * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Have you ever tried Code-Forge, or SlickEdit, or X-develop?
    >>>>
    >>>> Nah, just Visual Studio and CodeWright.
    >>>>
    >>>>> In code-forge, you can have code analysis and true c++ auto-completion
    >>>>> (it even takes macros into account), and the project orgenizer can let
    >>>>> you edit complex dependencies in make, though not automake'ed I think
    >>>>>
    >>>>> SlickEdit gives you refactorying for C++, so you can rename or move a
    >>>>> method in the whole project, without worrying about other related
    >>>>> code.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> X-develop has background checking - not only syntax, but also missing
    >>>>> method/variable, duplicated code parts, etc - when you're typing. So
    >>>>> before you ever make/compile you could already fix most errors.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> They're designed for linux/unix or cross-platoform, but less known to
    >>>>> most developers, and probably never recommended by anyone who use
    >>>>> linux - because they're not free.
    >>>>
    >>>> That stuff's cool, but you pay a price for it in speed.
    >>>
    >>> And here we see more bull**** from Liarnut.
    >>>
    >>> Speed?
    >>>
    >>> WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >>> eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >>> he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >>> benefits it brings.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    >> typing won't affect productivitiy.

    >
    > Are you talking about "a few ms" _total_ delay or "a few ms" delay between
    > each keystroke. Even on hardware from the 1990's the delay per keystroke was
    > in the microseconds. On modern hardware it's in the very, very, very low
    > microseconds per keystroke.



    See my other post. I am amazed this needs explaining. Jim Richardson has
    done a Liarnut and gone to the dark side. He clearly has zero clue
    anymore about how anything works. I wouldn't mind but this isn't even a
    MS v Linux or closed source v open source issue - its about big
    lumbering IDEs and the good they can bring.

  6. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:47:07 +0100,
    Hadron wrote:
    > AqD writes:
    >
    >> On Mar 27, 3:50*am, Jim Richardson wrote:
    >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> > WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >>> > eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >>> > he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >>> > benefits it brings.
    >>>
    >>> An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    >>> typing won't affect productivitiy.

    >
    > It won't. Did you never hear of multitasking/threading? Do you REALLY
    > think that a few ms of CPU time used when typing is going to have any


    we are talking about a few ms of lag in kb responce, which is *very*
    noticable.

    > adverse affect? do you? YO do know it wont hold up your typing dont you?
    > And a few ms used up to calculate things like class trees etc as you
    > type is nothing from the otherwise wasted bandwidth?
    >


    it slows down typing responce.

    > Dear me Jim. You seem to get more clueless with every attempt to support
    > a supposed "advocate".
    >
    > These IDEs are good- and its why people use them.
    >
    > Me? I don't like big heavy IDEs as a general rule and tend to use Emacs -
    > but it sure ain't for the beginner. Actually, I will rephrase that : I
    > see it as a challenge to keep using Emacs for these things.
    >
    >> Those big java IDEs don't run well on old computers. But if you can
    >> pay for those expensive softwares, can't you pay for a new PC?

    >
    > And, when they're loaded they're ok.
    >
    >>
    >> BTW it's not a few ms, the whole checking process (or the auto

    >
    > Its a few ms on a fast CPU - but lets not quibble. Its done in the bg
    > most of the time and on a decent PC which any developer SHOULD have then
    > the cost/benefit analysis ensures that these features are very welcome.
    >
    >> building/make in eclipse) is quiet CPU intensive; although it's done
    >> in background, one can still feel that slowness on an old pc like mine
    >> (sempron 2.4g). But the productivity it brings worths everything - and

    >
    > Yes!
    >
    >> those features are what most free IDEs/editors don't have - or cannot
    >> have unless you really have a lot of developers to put into that part .

    >


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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    "We live in the interface between radioactive molten rock and hard
    vacuum and we worry about safety."
    -- A friend of Steve Vanevender

  7. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:08:48 +0100,
    Hadron wrote:
    > "Ezekiel" writes:
    >
    >> "Jim Richardson" wrote in message
    >> news:12mqb5-vkd.ln1@dragon.myth...
    >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:38:25 +0100,
    >>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Have you ever tried Code-Forge, or SlickEdit, or X-develop?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Nah, just Visual Studio and CodeWright.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> In code-forge, you can have code analysis and true c++ auto-completion
    >>>>>> (it even takes macros into account), and the project orgenizer can let
    >>>>>> you edit complex dependencies in make, though not automake'ed I think
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> SlickEdit gives you refactorying for C++, so you can rename or move a
    >>>>>> method in the whole project, without worrying about other related
    >>>>>> code.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> X-develop has background checking - not only syntax, but also missing
    >>>>>> method/variable, duplicated code parts, etc - when you're typing. So
    >>>>>> before you ever make/compile you could already fix most errors.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> They're designed for linux/unix or cross-platoform, but less known to
    >>>>>> most developers, and probably never recommended by anyone who use
    >>>>>> linux - because they're not free.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That stuff's cool, but you pay a price for it in speed.
    >>>>
    >>>> And here we see more bull**** from Liarnut.
    >>>>
    >>>> Speed?
    >>>>
    >>>> WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >>>> eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >>>> he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >>>> benefits it brings.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    >>> typing won't affect productivitiy.

    >>
    >> Are you talking about "a few ms" _total_ delay or "a few ms" delay between
    >> each keystroke. Even on hardware from the 1990's the delay per keystroke was
    >> in the microseconds. On modern hardware it's in the very, very, very low
    >> microseconds per keystroke.

    >
    >
    > See my other post. I am amazed this needs explaining. Jim Richardson has
    > done a Liarnut and gone to the dark side. He clearly has zero clue
    > anymore about how anything works. I wouldn't mind but this isn't even a
    > MS v Linux or closed source v open source issue - its about big
    > lumbering IDEs and the good they can bring.



    Hadron is back to insults, rather than discussing things. Figures.


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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    The real fun of living wisely is that you get to feel smug about it
    -- Hobbes

  8. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jim Richardson

    wrote
    on Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:14:47 -0700
    <791tb5-1aa.ln1@dragon.myth>:
    >
    > On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:08:48 +0100,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >> "Ezekiel" writes:
    >>
    >>> "Jim Richardson" wrote in message
    >>> news:12mqb5-vkd.ln1@dragon.myth...
    >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>
    >>>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:38:25 +0100,
    >>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Have you ever tried Code-Forge, or SlickEdit, or X-develop?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Nah, just Visual Studio and CodeWright.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> In code-forge, you can have code analysis and true c++ auto-completion
    >>>>>>> (it even takes macros into account), and the project orgenizer can let
    >>>>>>> you edit complex dependencies in make, though not automake'ed I think
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> SlickEdit gives you refactorying for C++, so you can rename or move a
    >>>>>>> method in the whole project, without worrying about other related
    >>>>>>> code.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> X-develop has background checking - not only syntax, but also missing
    >>>>>>> method/variable, duplicated code parts, etc - when you're typing. So
    >>>>>>> before you ever make/compile you could already fix most errors.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> They're designed for linux/unix or cross-platoform, but less known to
    >>>>>>> most developers, and probably never recommended by anyone who use
    >>>>>>> linux - because they're not free.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> That stuff's cool, but you pay a price for it in speed.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And here we see more bull**** from Liarnut.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Speed?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >>>>> eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >>>>> he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >>>>> benefits it brings.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    >>>> typing won't affect productivitiy.
    >>>
    >>> Are you talking about "a few ms" _total_ delay or "a few ms" delay between
    >>> each keystroke. Even on hardware from the 1990's the delay per keystroke was
    >>> in the microseconds. On modern hardware it's in the very, very, very low
    >>> microseconds per keystroke.

    >>
    >>
    >> See my other post. I am amazed this needs explaining. Jim Richardson has
    >> done a Liarnut and gone to the dark side. He clearly has zero clue
    >> anymore about how anything works. I wouldn't mind but this isn't even a
    >> MS v Linux or closed source v open source issue - its about big
    >> lumbering IDEs and the good they can bring.

    >
    >
    > Hadron is back to insults, rather than discussing things. Figures.
    >


    I have seen Word lagging if the machine starts paging.
    However, Word is only partly to blame for that. ;-)
    It's very noticeable when it happens.

    To be fair, one can easily cause Linux to slow down as
    well, by overloading RAM; the resulting lag in various
    editors runs from annoying to useless.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #992381111:
    while(bit&BITMASK) ;

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  9. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    The Ghost In The Machine writes:

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Jim Richardson
    >
    > wrote
    > on Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:14:47 -0700
    > <791tb5-1aa.ln1@dragon.myth>:
    >>
    >> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:08:48 +0100,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> "Ezekiel" writes:
    >>>
    >>>> "Jim Richardson" wrote in message
    >>>> news:12mqb5-vkd.ln1@dragon.myth...
    >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >>>>> Hash: SHA1
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:38:25 +0100,
    >>>>> Hadron wrote:
    >>>>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> * AqD peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Have you ever tried Code-Forge, or SlickEdit, or X-develop?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Nah, just Visual Studio and CodeWright.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> In code-forge, you can have code analysis and true c++ auto-completion
    >>>>>>>> (it even takes macros into account), and the project orgenizer can let
    >>>>>>>> you edit complex dependencies in make, though not automake'ed I think
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> SlickEdit gives you refactorying for C++, so you can rename or move a
    >>>>>>>> method in the whole project, without worrying about other related
    >>>>>>>> code.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> X-develop has background checking - not only syntax, but also missing
    >>>>>>>> method/variable, duplicated code parts, etc - when you're typing. So
    >>>>>>>> before you ever make/compile you could already fix most errors.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> They're designed for linux/unix or cross-platoform, but less known to
    >>>>>>>> most developers, and probably never recommended by anyone who use
    >>>>>>>> linux - because they're not free.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> That stuff's cool, but you pay a price for it in speed.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> And here we see more bull**** from Liarnut.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Speed?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> WTF? The machines we develop on now do these things in a blink of an
    >>>>>> eye. And I challenge ANY developer here to say that a few ms wasted "as
    >>>>>> he types" is somehow an anchor on his productivity compared to the
    >>>>>> benefits it brings.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> An interesting assertion. Hadron claims that "a few ms" delay when
    >>>>> typing won't affect productivitiy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Are you talking about "a few ms" _total_ delay or "a few ms" delay between
    >>>> each keystroke. Even on hardware from the 1990's the delay per keystroke was
    >>>> in the microseconds. On modern hardware it's in the very, very, very low
    >>>> microseconds per keystroke.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> See my other post. I am amazed this needs explaining. Jim Richardson has
    >>> done a Liarnut and gone to the dark side. He clearly has zero clue
    >>> anymore about how anything works. I wouldn't mind but this isn't even a
    >>> MS v Linux or closed source v open source issue - its about big
    >>> lumbering IDEs and the good they can bring.

    >>
    >>
    >> Hadron is back to insults, rather than discussing things. Figures.
    >>


    Where were the insults? I am pointing out that you are totally wrong. As
    you tried, incorrectly, to do to me. You tried to move the goalposts
    too. Fail.

    >
    > I have seen Word lagging if the machine starts paging.


    Big deal. It happens. OO does it too under LInux. All apps do it if
    paging/swapping starts to occur.

    > However, Word is only partly to blame for that. ;-)
    > It's very noticeable when it happens.
    >
    > To be fair, one can easily cause Linux to slow down as
    > well, by overloading RAM; the resulting lag in various
    > editors runs from annoying to useless.


    Buy some more RAM. Works for me here in emacs under Debian.

    >
    > --
    > #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    > Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #992381111:
    > while(bit&BITMASK) ;


    --
    XP can't be selling well, or we'd have the wintrolls crowing about it all
    over the advocacy newsgroups.
    comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy

  10. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    On Mar 28, 1:13*am, Jim Richardson wrote:
    > we are talking about a few ms of lag in kb responce, which is *very*
    > noticable.
    >
    > it slows down typing responce.


    Just get a better PC.

  11. Re: cola nut sees a "mass migration" to Linux

    AqD writes:

    > On Mar 28, 1:13*am, Jim Richardson wrote:
    >> we are talking about a few ms of lag in kb responce, which is *very*
    >> noticable.
    >>
    >> it slows down typing responce.

    >
    > Just get a better PC.


    Jim is talking nonsense or he bought some garbage with no buffer.

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