Smart people choose Free Software - Linux

This is a discussion on Smart people choose Free Software - Linux ; Hi Advocates, I wrote a message here for COLA, but came to the conclusion that it became *huge* and thus I moved it to my English blog. In fact, it became more or less a tinny translation of my Dutch ...

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  1. Smart people choose Free Software

    Hi Advocates,

    I wrote a message here for COLA, but came to the conclusion that it
    became *huge* and thus I moved it to my English blog.

    In fact, it became more or less a tinny translation of my Dutch
    biography Hackwerk (PDF). Which I released a couple of weeks ago on my
    personal website.

    After posting a link to it, in the Dutch Hacking Usenet group, I removed
    it, since *how surprising* I got attacked by a couple of Microsoft Zealots.

    It is not a Microsoft rant, it describes my fascination for computers in
    general and Free Software. But I must admit I have a pretty strong
    opinion about Microsoft and their crapware.

    So don't start whining about "it's Microsoft hate mail" and don't say I
    didn't warn you!

    Have unlimited fun!

    --
    |_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
    |_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
    |0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com

  2. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    Damn, I forgot the freaking link:

    http://osgeex.blogspot.com/2008/03/s...-software.html

    Oops, Sorry ;-)

    --
    |_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
    |_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
    |0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com

  3. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    ml2mst writes:

    > Damn, I forgot the freaking link:
    >
    > http://osgeex.blogspot.com/2008/03/s...-software.html
    >
    > Oops, Sorry ;-)


    Is that the "Smart People" you were referring to? :-;

    --
    Spamming COLA for years : shillgeld.
    Signing on while at Uni : a few quid.
    Living at home in mothers basement : thrifty.
    Getting caught propagating Viruses to windows machines which visit your revenue generating website: Priceless!

    http://www.angelfire.com/psy/doctorb...towitz.com.jpg

  4. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    Some ignorant fscking troll, "ml2mst" wrote
    news:frebs9$7a9$1@news.albasani.net...
    > Hi Advocates,


    *PLONK*



  5. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    some idiot forging chrisv wrote:

    > *PLONK*


    Ignore the forger.


  6. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    ml2mst wrote:

    > Damn, I forgot the freaking link:
    >
    > http://osgeex.blogspot.com/2008/03/s...-software.html
    >
    > Oops, Sorry ;-)


    Thanks for the link.

    --
    RonB
    "There's a story there...somewhere"

  7. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    chrisv wrote:

    > some idiot forging chrisv wrote:
    >
    >> *PLONK*

    >
    > Ignore the forger.
    >


    Of course, it's the Dizum coward ;-)

    It doesn't only steal other people's work (like "his" pwned series,
    which he stoled from [H]omer and my Hackwerk poster) the endangered
    species also steals handles.

    It's not new, since the freak has been doing this for ages.

    The troll does not seems to be aware of the fact, that the majority in
    COLA is able to interpret headers correctly.

    A dumnbass expects everyone to be a fellow dumbass, because dumbasses
    simply don't know anything, which extents their own stupidity. Please
    forgive them, since they are not responsible for their stupidity. They
    where born that way ;-)

    Yawn.

    --
    |_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
    |_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
    |0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com

  8. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:04:17 +0000, Jeremy Fisher wrote:


    > This is a Linux advocates group and you post is clearly targeted against
    > Microsoft fans boys, just to feed their fear uncertainty and doubt about
    > the decline of Microsoft, and really does not advance how the opensource
    > movement has surpassed the efforts of propriety orientated companies who
    > can no longer afford the resources needed to counter Opensource methods
    > with Linux playing a lead roll.
    >
    > Jem..


    Don't fear the period (.)

    BTW this is not a Linux advocates group.
    It is a Microsoft hate group.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  9. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    ml2mst wrote:

    > Hi Advocates,
    >
    > I wrote a message here for COLA, but came to the conclusion that it
    > became *huge* and thus I moved it to my English blog.
    >
    > In fact, it became more or less a tinny translation of my Dutch
    > biography Hackwerk (PDF). Which I released a couple of weeks ago on my
    > personal website.
    >
    > After posting a link to it, in the Dutch Hacking Usenet group, I removed
    > it, since *how surprising* I got attacked by a couple of Microsoft
    > Zealots.
    >
    > It is not a Microsoft rant, it describes my fascination for computers in
    > general and Free Software. But I must admit I have a pretty strong
    > opinion about Microsoft and their crapware.
    >
    > So don't start whining about "it's Microsoft hate mail" and don't say I
    > didn't warn you!
    >
    > Have unlimited fun!
    >

    Were is all this FREE software, I see a lot of open source software that I
    can make use of, it may cost me nothing but the bandwidth and storage media
    to obtain it, but it is not Free Software. OK I am trying to make a point,
    Free has been used to try and make people understand what Open source is
    all about, but it is not really free, if it was there would be no GPL
    attached.

    This is a Linux advocates group and you post is clearly targeted against
    Microsoft fans boys, just to feed their fear uncertainty and doubt about
    the decline of Microsoft, and really does not advance how the opensource
    movement has surpassed the efforts of propriety orientated companies who
    can no longer afford the resources needed to counter Opensource methods
    with Linux playing a lead roll.

    Jem..

  10. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    On 2008-03-14, Jeremy Fisher claimed:

    > Were is all this FREE software, I see a lot of open source software that I
    > can make use of, it may cost me nothing but the bandwidth and storage media
    > to obtain it, but it is not Free Software. OK I am trying to make a point,
    > Free has been used to try and make people understand what Open source is
    > all about, but it is not really free, if it was there would be no GPL
    > attached.


    You're absolutely right. Vista is so much cheaper, even with the media
    it has to be installed on, than the media and software that free
    software needs. And Vista really /is/ free, too. It's much freer than
    free software in fact, because it doesn't have a GPL attached.

    --
    Be good, or at least good at it.


  11. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    Jeremy Fisher schreef:
    > ml2mst wrote:
    >
    >> Hi Advocates,
    >>
    >> I wrote a message here for COLA, but came to the conclusion that it
    >> became *huge* and thus I moved it to my English blog.
    >>
    >> In fact, it became more or less a tinny translation of my Dutch
    >> biography Hackwerk (PDF). Which I released a couple of weeks ago on my
    >> personal website.
    >>
    >> After posting a link to it, in the Dutch Hacking Usenet group, I removed
    >> it, since *how surprising* I got attacked by a couple of Microsoft
    >> Zealots.
    >>
    >> It is not a Microsoft rant, it describes my fascination for computers in
    >> general and Free Software. But I must admit I have a pretty strong
    >> opinion about Microsoft and their crapware.
    >>
    >> So don't start whining about "it's Microsoft hate mail" and don't say I
    >> didn't warn you!
    >>
    >> Have unlimited fun!
    >>

    > Were is all this FREE software, I see a lot of open source software that I
    > can make use of, it may cost me nothing but the bandwidth and storage media
    > to obtain it, but it is not Free Software. OK I am trying to make a point,
    > Free has been used to try and make people understand what Open source is
    > all about, but it is not really free, if it was there would be no GPL
    > attached.


    Very funny, from somebody who is notably posting using Kmail. It is
    right at your fingertips Sir. You have used free software to post your
    reply.

    Free Software, means that the source code of your Operating System and
    its applications is free available. This gives you the freedom to change
    it, if it does not suit your needs.

    > This is a Linux advocates group and you post is clearly targeted against
    > Microsoft fans boys, just to feed their fear uncertainty and doubt about
    > the decline of Microsoft, and really does not advance how the opensource
    > movement has surpassed the efforts of propriety orientated companies who
    > can no longer afford the resources needed to counter Opensource methods
    > with Linux playing a lead roll.


    OK, if you feel that way, post a better article then. Maybe I'm able to
    learn from you, whatever I should write in an article or not.

    No offend intended btw.

    Cheers

    --
    |_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
    |_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
    |0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com

  12. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    ml2mst wrote:


    >
    > OK, if you feel that way, post a better article then. Maybe I'm able to
    > learn from you, whatever I should write in an article or not.
    >
    > No offend intended btw.
    >
    > Cheers
    >


    None taken, the article was fine, as I said I was making a point, those that
    use Open Source, and Linux in particular understand that the term Free can
    be taken litrally.

    From http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html

    ``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the
    concept, you should think of ``free'' as in ``free speech,'' not as in
    ``free beer.''

    You were making the argument for Free software, and quite right in your
    assessment of software provided by Microsoft, What I have never understood
    about Microsoft OS, if you go back to the transition from DOS 6.1 to
    Windows 3.1, they could have evolved a world class OS, they missed the
    opportunity to improve the core code, instead they went with a design that
    in hind site(isn't it a wonderfull thing) has given users buggy, bloated,
    and a total nightmare to secure. Its a good thing they never developed
    quality standards, based around continuous improvement. Today because of
    poor business practice, Microsoft will decline to being a software support
    organisation, whilst key Open Source projects will dominate how other
    corporations remain profitable.

    Jem..

  13. Re: Smart people choose Free Software

    * Jeremy Fisher peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > You were making the argument for Free software, and quite right in your
    > assessment of software provided by Microsoft, What I have never understood
    > about Microsoft OS, if you go back to the transition from DOS 6.1 to
    > Windows 3.1, they could have evolved a world class OS, they missed the
    > opportunity to improve the core code, instead they went with a design that
    > in hind site(isn't it a wonderfull thing) has given users buggy, bloated,
    > and a total nightmare to secure. Its a good thing they never developed
    > quality standards, based around continuous improvement.


    Here's the key. The extra time, expense, and delay-to-market required
    by disciplined development comes right up front.

    The extra time, expense, and lessened satisfaction that grow from
    shoot-from-the-hip development come later.

    Microsoft reasoned (and their domination somewhat bears this out) that
    getting out the door first was the better strategy, and if they could
    ensure a monopoly of sorts, people would come to accept sub-standard
    software. And they could slipstream fixes into the next set of new
    features that the customer would pay for.

    It's called "riding the wave".

    Open source, in general, now does the same paradigm, but with two big
    differences:

    1. The upgrades, fixes, and features come faster than Microsoft could
    ever do without breaking things.

    2. The upgrades, fixes, and features are free.

    Now, even in Microsoft and open-source, there are projects that break
    the mold, and use a more disciplined approach, So the fast-and-loose
    philosophy is not the only one out there.

    --
    Gates is the ultimate programming machine. He believes everything can be
    defined, examined, reduced to essentials, and rearranged into a logical
    sequence that will achieve a particular goal.
    -- Stewart Alsop

  14. Re: The Smartest People choose what works best for them.

    * Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > The only 'fairness' here is that some companies do that too.


    Linux versus Windows is proof positive that Bill is wrong below.
    (Although the people are, slowly, moving to act, finally.)

    --
    If you show people the problems and you show people the solutions they will be
    moved to act.
    -- Bill Gates, At Live8 (2 July 2005) as reported in BBC News (4 July 2005)

  15. Re: The Smartest People choose what works best for them.


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:TwQCj.19707$r76.1994@bignews8.bellsouth.net.. .
    >* Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> The only 'fairness' here is that some companies do that too.

    >
    > Linux versus Windows is proof positive that Bill is wrong below.
    > (Although the people are, slowly, moving to act, finally.)
    >
    > --
    > If you show people the problems and you show people the solutions they
    > will be
    > moved to act.
    > -- Bill Gates, At Live8 (2 July 2005) as reported in BBC News (4 July
    > 2005)


    A more accurate reading of the tea leaves here is that your notion of Linux
    losing all around to Windows is proof positive that Bill was correct. You
    can show a person a Windows solution and it is fairly well understood. Some
    ill-kempt hippie chanting about freedom and showing things like vi and emacs
    and the gnu stuff will be ignored.


  16. Re: The Smartest People choose what works best for them.

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:08:32 -0400, amicus_curious wrote:

    > "Linonut" wrote in message
    > news:TwQCj.19707$r76.1994@bignews8.bellsouth.net.. .
    >>* Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> The only 'fairness' here is that some companies do that too.

    >>
    >> Linux versus Windows is proof positive that Bill is wrong below.
    >> (Although the people are, slowly, moving to act, finally.)
    >>
    >> --
    >> If you show people the problems and you show people the solutions they
    >> will be
    >> moved to act.
    >> -- Bill Gates, At Live8 (2 July 2005) as reported in BBC News (4 July
    >> 2005)

    >
    > A more accurate reading of the tea leaves here is that your notion of
    > Linux losing all around to Windows is proof positive that Bill was
    > correct. You can show a person a Windows solution and it is fairly well
    > understood. Some ill-kempt hippie chanting about freedom and showing
    > things like vi and emacs and the gnu stuff will be ignored.


    .... and you show your basic dishonesty.

    Unless a person understands Windows, a Windows solution will not be
    understood.

    Show a person that understands Windows, a GUI-based Linux solution, and
    in all likelihood, that person will understand the Linux solution.

    --
    Rick

  17. Re: The Smartest People choose what works best for them.

    * Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:08:32 -0400, amicus_curious wrote:
    >
    >>> If you show people the problems and you show people the solutions they
    >>> will be moved to act.
    >>> -- Bill Gates, At Live8 (2 July 2005) as reported in BBC News (4 July

    >>
    >> A more accurate reading of the tea leaves here is that your notion of
    >> Linux losing all around to Windows is proof positive that Bill was
    >> correct. You can show a person a Windows solution and it is fairly well
    >> understood. Some ill-kempt hippie chanting about freedom and showing
    >> things like vi and emacs and the gnu stuff will be ignored.


    Nah, amicus. Proprietary software is turning out to be too problematic
    for some consumers and businesses.

    >> your notion of Linux losing all around to Windows


    amicus is a sneaky bastard. My notion is that Linux is /gaining/ ground
    on Windows. Like Matt hints at, desktop operating systems will be
    completely commoditized in 8-15 years.

    Bill Gates tried to pull some bull**** about hardware being free and the
    software selling for big bucks. Probably one of the biggest public
    boners he's ever pulled.

    > ... and you show your basic dishonesty.


    True. Observe that sneaky-ass alteration above.

    Not to mention that Linux has done nothing but /gain/ ground on Windows.

    Slowly, to be sure, but it is still gaining.

    > Unless a person understands Windows, a Windows solution will not be
    > understood.
    >
    > Show a person that understands Windows, a GUI-based Linux solution, and
    > in all likelihood, that person will understand the Linux solution.


    Indeed. My 72-year-old neighbor knows this pretty well.

    --
    Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.
    -- Bill Gates

  18. Re: The Smartest People choose what works best for them.


    "Linonut" wrote in message
    news:heTCj.9939$%15.620@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
    >* Rick peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:08:32 -0400, amicus_curious wrote:
    >>
    >>>> If you show people the problems and you show people the solutions they
    >>>> will be moved to act.
    >>>> -- Bill Gates, At Live8 (2 July 2005) as reported in BBC News (4 July
    >>>
    >>> A more accurate reading of the tea leaves here is that your notion of
    >>> Linux losing all around to Windows is proof positive that Bill was
    >>> correct. You can show a person a Windows solution and it is fairly well
    >>> understood. Some ill-kempt hippie chanting about freedom and showing
    >>> things like vi and emacs and the gnu stuff will be ignored.

    >
    > Nah, amicus. Proprietary software is turning out to be too problematic
    > for some consumers and businesses.
    >
    >>> your notion of Linux losing all around to Windows

    >
    > amicus is a sneaky bastard. My notion is that Linux is /gaining/ ground
    > on Windows. Like Matt hints at, desktop operating systems will be
    > completely commoditized in 8-15 years.
    >

    My belief is that you are so wrong as to come close to appearing to be an
    idiot. Consider the progress of Windows in the past 15 years. Do you thing
    things will stand still? However would a bunch of simple simons as the OSS
    bunch has demonstrated themselves to be ever manage to get ahead of this
    kind of wave? They will be cloning what the winners sell for all time to
    come. Linux cannot lead with no product marketing to lead it. It clones
    Unix, it clones the Windows UI, but it never does anything new.

    > Bill Gates tried to pull some bull**** about hardware being free and the
    > software selling for big bucks. Probably one of the biggest public
    > boners he's ever pulled.
    >

    I have never heard of that. Did you hear about it on COLA?

    >> ... and you show your basic dishonesty.

    >
    > True. Observe that sneaky-ass alteration above.
    >
    > Not to mention that Linux has done nothing but /gain/ ground on Windows.
    >
    > Slowly, to be sure, but it is still gaining.
    >

    Just like the whacky muslims are gaining ground on the US Marines. It is
    still totally one-sided.



  19. Re: The Smartest People choose what works best for them.


    > My belief is that you are so wrong as to come close to appearing to be an
    > idiot. Consider the progress of Windows in the past 15 years. Do you
    > thing
    > things will stand still? However would a bunch of simple simons as the
    > OSS bunch has demonstrated themselves to be ever manage to get ahead of
    > this
    > kind of wave? They will be cloning what the winners sell for all time to
    > come. Linux cannot lead with no product marketing to lead it. It clones
    > Unix, it clones the Windows UI, but it never does anything new.


    "it clones the Windows UI" Listen very carfully Linux is not WINDOWS!, Linux
    is not trying to be Windows, Linux is not the same as Windows.

    Linux is the kernel a unix like OS
    GUI runs via X11 or X Window System

    X Window System - X is NOT an integral part of the system
    X Window System - is an additional application layer.

    So please enlighten us on Linux and how "it clones the Windows UI"

    "but it never does anything new." so the teams of people who update the
    Kernel with new modules etc. do nothing new.

    Jem..

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