Remembering Why I don't like Windows - Linux

This is a discussion on Remembering Why I don't like Windows - Linux ; chrisv writes: > Peter Köhlmann wrote: > >>That is not the sole way to get it. You can actually *buy* LinDVD alone here >>in germany. >>As I already said, backwaters like the US are often behind. > > I wouldn't ...

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Thread: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

  1. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    chrisv writes:

    > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >>That is not the sole way to get it. You can actually *buy* LinDVD alone here
    >>in germany.
    >>As I already said, backwaters like the US are often behind.

    >
    > I wouldn't say it's a "backwater". I would say that it's run by the
    > evil businessman...
    >


    When talking about countries being run by evil people I really don't
    think you should be holding up Germany as an example of freedom.

  2. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:53:17 -0500, Sinister Midget wrote:

    > Well, he /did/ say 80%. And he was /probably/ only considering MS stuff
    > in that 80% figure. Which is a really rotten number.


    No. I was referring to 80% of the common devices on modern computers are
    supported either out of the box or through windows update. Yes, I'm
    estimating that based on my own experiences with a variety of hardware.

    > Of course, with linux one can get 100% of everything updated or patched
    > most of the time.


    That's a strange way of saying "not 100%". You and I both know 100% of
    devices are not supported. Just like in Windows, if all your hardware is
    supported, than it will be detected and installed 100% of the time.

    You have goofy math.

    > No going to a vendor's site to get it.


    Not true, there are a lot of devices that require vendor supplied driver
    (or at least non-mainline kernel drivers that need to be patched into the
    kernel).

    Some vendors provide some of those patches. I know red hat typically has a
    number of patched drivers in their kernsls, i would assume Novell and
    Mandrake do as well.

    I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    difficult than it is in Windows.

  3. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    > difficult than it is in Windows.


    Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    /getting/ the Windows drivers.

    --
    When you want to do your homework, fill out your tax return, or see all the
    choices for a trip you want to take, you need a full-size screen.
    -- Bill Gates

  4. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Linonut writes:

    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >> difficult than it is in Windows.

    >
    > Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    > /getting/ the Windows drivers.


    And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    you have one?

  5. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron

    wrote
    on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    :
    > Linonut writes:
    >
    >> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>> difficult than it is in Windows.

    >>
    >> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >> /getting/ the Windows drivers.

    >
    > And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    > you have one?


    All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.

    Spot the problem. (Hint: one big big concern regarding
    the x86 desktop OEMs and the distortion of the OS market is ...)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of
    elderberries!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  6. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    The Ghost In The Machine writes:

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >
    > wrote
    > on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    > :
    >> Linonut writes:
    >>
    >>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>
    >>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.

    >>
    >> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >> you have one?

    >
    > All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.


    No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    well, preinstalled. Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    code base thus not third party any more. Any third party drivers would
    be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    compiled too. And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    install. Or at least on Debian.

    --
    Spamming COLA for years : shillgeld.
    Signing on while at Uni : a few quid.
    Living at home in mothers basement : thrifty.
    Getting caught propagating Viruses to windows machines which visit your revenue generating website: Priceless!

    http://www.angelfire.com/psy/doctorb...towitz.com.jpg

  7. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:20 +0100,
    Hadron wrote:
    > The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    >> :
    >>> Linonut writes:
    >>>
    >>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>>
    >>>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.
    >>>
    >>> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >>> you have one?

    >>
    >> All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.

    >
    > No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    > well, preinstalled. Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    > code base thus not third party any more. Any third party drivers would
    > be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    > compiled too. And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    > lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    > the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    > specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    > install. Or at least on Debian.
    >



    and yet Ubuntu has handled that fine for quite some time. F8 too.
    Perhaps you are doing something wrong?



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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    "I think quotes are very dangerous things."
    -- Kate Bush

  8. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:03:03 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:20 +0100,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >> The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >>
    >>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >>>
    >>> wrote
    >>> on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    >>> :
    >>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>>>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.
    >>>>
    >>>> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >>>> you have one?
    >>>
    >>> All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.

    >>
    >> No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    >> well, preinstalled. Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    >> code base thus not third party any more. Any third party drivers would
    >> be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    >> compiled too. And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    >> lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    >> the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    >> specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    >> install. Or at least on Debian.
    >>

    >
    >
    > and yet Ubuntu has handled that fine for quite some time. F8 too.
    > Perhaps you are doing something wrong?


    To be honest I found the Ubuntu method of dealing with nvidia commercial
    drivers to be quite confusing compared to mepis or PCLinuxOS or even SuSE,
    last time I used it.

    On top of that, Ubuntu got totally confused between the onboard video
    (Intel) which was disabled via BIOS and the AGP card (Nvidia).

    I eventually got it all working, but I did find it confusing.

    Last time I tried it was around Christmas time so maybe the latest release
    has made things easier.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  9. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron

    wrote
    on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:20 +0100
    :
    > The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >
    >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >>
    >> wrote
    >> on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    >> :
    >>> Linonut writes:
    >>>
    >>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>>
    >>>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.
    >>>
    >>> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >>> you have one?

    >>
    >> All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.

    >
    > No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    > well, preinstalled.


    Still third party in many many cases. Look at the copyright for
    /usr/src/linux/drivers/ieee1394/eth1394.c, for example, just to
    pick something more or less at random:

    * eth1394.c -- IPv4 driver for Linux IEEE-1394 Subsystem
    *
    * Copyright (C) 2001-2003 Ben Collins
    * 2000 Bonin Franck
    * 2003 Steve Kinneberg
    *
    *
    * Mainly based on work by Emanuel Pirker and Andreas E. Bombe
    *

    Sure looks third party to me! Unless one wants to claim
    that Ben Collins, Bonin Franck, and Steven Kinneberg
    came from Helsinki University and are aliases for Linus
    Torvalds...a concept which probably flies about as well as
    Ed Wood's model spacecraft...

    > Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    > code base thus not third party any more.


    I'm not sure about that...though it depends on how strictly
    one interprets the LGPL. Ideally, all contributions would
    be properly recognized; I doubt this file's been modified
    all that much by Linus himself (though I can't say I know
    unless he says one way or the other!).

    It's part of Linux, to be sure. That doesn't mean it's not third party.

    > Any third party drivers would
    > be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    > compiled too.


    Those are interesting. My Athlon has a BT5500 card
    which requires those drivers. Gentoo, to their credit,
    makes it easy enough. They cannot be compiled; they are
    binary-only. (Gentoo -- or someone -- defines a small
    amount of glue that does have to be compiled. At the
    end of the day, I get a module in the right place that
    [hopefully] works.)

    > And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    > lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    > the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    > specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    > install. Or at least on Debian.


    Killing Gnome is interesting, in that it can fail to
    restart. One occasionally has to clear out /tmp as well
    (I've yet to work out quite what it leaves lying about that
    causes it to stall on startup, but suspect a half-opened
    pipe). XDM also has to be put to death, for many systems;
    killing X merely hints to XDM that X needs restarting.
    (Hey, crashes happen.) Kill X often enough, and XDM gives
    up, which will require an XDM restart; at that point one
    could I suppose unload and reload the new nVidia module.

    (Ask me how I know all this.)

    Or one can reboot, which is a lot simpler conceptually
    to the human operator, if rougher on the system (since
    all daemons have to suicide themselves gracefully, then
    restart on bootup).

    As for the original point -- depends on how much work
    has already been done, but in Gentoo at least certain
    third-party drivers such as the nvidia binaries have at
    least been predone, so as to allow easy installation with
    little more than 'emerge nvidia-drivers'.

    The concepts are therefore decoupled to a certain extent;
    *certain* third-party drivers are easy to install, and
    certain others require quite a bit of patch/edit work.
    If the driver writer has done his homework, the patching
    is little more than

    cd /usr/src/linux
    gunzip .../patchfile.gz
    patch -p0 < .../patchfile
    make menuconfig
    make modules
    make modules_install

    or some such.

    If he hasn't, one gets to do quite a bit of source code
    editing, digging into the internals of Linux makefiles to
    figure out what the heck's going on in there.

    It's not as simple as it could be, though it's reasonably
    well-engineered. In my case, I've yet to have to worry
    about it; apart from the aforementioned nvidia crap, and a
    stupid unsupported Winmodem which I inherited in my Kayak
    and don't use, I've not had to worry about it.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  10. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:59:50 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >
    > wrote
    > on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:20 +0100
    > :
    >> The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >>
    >>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >>>
    >>> wrote
    >>> on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    >>> :
    >>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>>>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.
    >>>>
    >>>> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >>>> you have one?
    >>>
    >>> All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.

    >>
    >> No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    >> well, preinstalled.

    >
    > Still third party in many many cases. Look at the copyright for
    > /usr/src/linux/drivers/ieee1394/eth1394.c, for example, just to
    > pick something more or less at random:
    >
    > * eth1394.c -- IPv4 driver for Linux IEEE-1394 Subsystem
    > *
    > * Copyright (C) 2001-2003 Ben Collins
    > * 2000 Bonin Franck
    > * 2003 Steve Kinneberg
    > *
    > *
    > * Mainly based on work by Emanuel Pirker and Andreas E. Bombe
    > *
    >
    > Sure looks third party to me! Unless one wants to claim
    > that Ben Collins, Bonin Franck, and Steven Kinneberg
    > came from Helsinki University and are aliases for Linus
    > Torvalds...a concept which probably flies about as well as
    > Ed Wood's model spacecraft...
    >
    >> Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    >> code base thus not third party any more.

    >
    > I'm not sure about that...though it depends on how strictly
    > one interprets the LGPL. Ideally, all contributions would
    > be properly recognized; I doubt this file's been modified
    > all that much by Linus himself (though I can't say I know
    > unless he says one way or the other!).
    >
    > It's part of Linux, to be sure. That doesn't mean it's not third party.
    >
    >> Any third party drivers would
    >> be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    >> compiled too.

    >
    > Those are interesting. My Athlon has a BT5500 card
    > which requires those drivers. Gentoo, to their credit,
    > makes it easy enough. They cannot be compiled; they are
    > binary-only. (Gentoo -- or someone -- defines a small
    > amount of glue that does have to be compiled. At the
    > end of the day, I get a module in the right place that
    > [hopefully] works.)
    >
    >> And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    >> lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    >> the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    >> specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    >> install. Or at least on Debian.

    >
    > Killing Gnome is interesting, in that it can fail to
    > restart. One occasionally has to clear out /tmp as well
    > (I've yet to work out quite what it leaves lying about that
    > causes it to stall on startup, but suspect a half-opened
    > pipe). XDM also has to be put to death, for many systems;
    > killing X merely hints to XDM that X needs restarting.
    > (Hey, crashes happen.) Kill X often enough, and XDM gives
    > up, which will require an XDM restart; at that point one
    > could I suppose unload and reload the new nVidia module.
    >
    > (Ask me how I know all this.)
    >
    > Or one can reboot, which is a lot simpler conceptually
    > to the human operator, if rougher on the system (since
    > all daemons have to suicide themselves gracefully, then
    > restart on bootup).
    >
    > As for the original point -- depends on how much work
    > has already been done, but in Gentoo at least certain
    > third-party drivers such as the nvidia binaries have at
    > least been predone, so as to allow easy installation with
    > little more than 'emerge nvidia-drivers'.
    >
    > The concepts are therefore decoupled to a certain extent;
    > *certain* third-party drivers are easy to install, and
    > certain others require quite a bit of patch/edit work.
    > If the driver writer has done his homework, the patching
    > is little more than
    >
    > cd /usr/src/linux
    > gunzip .../patchfile.gz
    > patch -p0 < .../patchfile
    > make menuconfig
    > make modules
    > make modules_install
    >
    > or some such.
    >
    > If he hasn't, one gets to do quite a bit of source code
    > editing, digging into the internals of Linux makefiles to
    > figure out what the heck's going on in there.
    >
    > It's not as simple as it could be, though it's reasonably
    > well-engineered. In my case, I've yet to have to worry
    > about it; apart from the aforementioned nvidia crap, and a
    > stupid unsupported Winmodem which I inherited in my Kayak
    > and don't use, I've not had to worry about it.
    >
    > --
    > #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    > Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    > void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }


    You're making my head hurt these days Rex, err, I mean Ghost....

    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  11. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:13:15 -0400,
    Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
    > On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:03:03 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:
    >
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:20 +0100,
    >> Hadron wrote:
    >>> The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >>>
    >>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >>>>
    >>>> wrote
    >>>> on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    >>>> :
    >>>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>>>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>>>>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >>>>> you have one?
    >>>>
    >>>> All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.
    >>>
    >>> No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    >>> well, preinstalled. Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    >>> code base thus not third party any more. Any third party drivers would
    >>> be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    >>> compiled too. And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    >>> lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    >>> the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    >>> specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    >>> install. Or at least on Debian.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> and yet Ubuntu has handled that fine for quite some time. F8 too.
    >> Perhaps you are doing something wrong?

    >
    > To be honest I found the Ubuntu method of dealing with nvidia commercial
    > drivers to be quite confusing compared to mepis or PCLinuxOS or even SuSE,
    > last time I used it.
    >


    How so? all I had to do was enable restricted drivers, which the
    restricted drivers widget made very simple.


    > On top of that, Ubuntu got totally confused between the onboard video
    > (Intel) which was disabled via BIOS and the AGP card (Nvidia).
    >


    I have the same setup (except onboard is SiS instead of Nvidia) *never*
    had that problem with any distro on that machine. Ymmv as always, but I
    have had an NVidia card in that machine since it was new, and never used
    the on board chipset, been since, whenever 2.0GHz PIV Shuttle PC cubes
    came out.


    > I eventually got it all working, but I did find it confusing.
    >
    > Last time I tried it was around Christmas time so maybe the latest release
    > has made things easier.
    >
    >
    >


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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong,
    But it's the safest way to bet.

  12. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:06:06 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:


    > How so? all I had to do was enable restricted drivers, which the
    > restricted drivers widget made very simple.


    How does one know to do this?
    Remember, I am new to Ubuntu.
    PCLinusOS told you right up front.
    So did SuSE.
    I forget how Mepis did it, but I don't recall any troubles.

    >
    >> On top of that, Ubuntu got totally confused between the onboard video
    >> (Intel) which was disabled via BIOS and the AGP card (Nvidia).
    >>

    >
    > I have the same setup (except onboard is SiS instead of Nvidia) *never*
    > had that problem with any distro on that machine. Ymmv as always, but I
    > have had an NVidia card in that machine since it was new, and never used
    > the on board chipset, been since, whenever 2.0GHz PIV Shuttle PC cubes
    > came out.


    Everytime I went into the change video resolution/driver control panel, or
    whatever it's called, the dammed thing kept asking me questions about using
    multiple monitors, which this machine did not have.

    I ended up with a totally aborted screen at one point.

    I just found the entire thing very frustrating.



    --
    Moshe Goldfarb
    Collector of soaps from around the globe.
    Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
    http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

  13. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb

    wrote
    on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:05:13 -0400
    :
    > On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:59:50 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >


    [mucho snippage]

    >> [Linux makefiles (for the sake of driver patching) are] not as simple
    >> as [they] could be, though [they're] reasonably
    >> well-engineered. In my case, I've yet to have to worry
    >> about it; apart from the aforementioned nvidia crap, and a
    >> stupid unsupported Winmodem which I inherited in my Kayak
    >> and don't use, I've not had to worry about it.
    >>
    >> --
    >> #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    >> Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
    >> void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }

    >
    > You're making my head hurt these days Rex, err, I mean Ghost....
    >


    I am not Rex. In any event, if one's head hurts, go back
    to a simpler solution -- namely, Windows. The complexity
    in Windows at least buries itself underneath the shiny
    patina of the glossy surface.

    The good news: Linux swallows drivers all the time, and
    once swallowed, it stays swallowed. ;-)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    Useless C++ Programming Idea #8830129:
    std::set<...> v; for(..:iterator i = v.begin(); i != v.end(); i++)
    if(*i == thing) {...}

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  14. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Jim Richardson wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:13:20 +0100,
    > Hadron wrote:
    >> The Ghost In The Machine writes:
    >>
    >>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron
    >>>
    >>> wrote
    >>> on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:06:01 +0100
    >>> :
    >>>> Linonut writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I'd argue that installing third party drivers in Linux is typically more
    >>>>>> difficult than it is in Windows.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Somewhat true, given that you've already gone through the hassle of
    >>>>> /getting/ the Windows drivers.
    >>>>
    >>>> And you do for third party drivers in Linux too. What is your point if
    >>>> you have one?
    >>>
    >>> All drivers in Linux are third party. Most of them are preinstalled.

    >>
    >> No. Not all drivers are third party. The ones that come preinstalled are
    >> well, preinstalled. Sure written by a third party but handed into the
    >> code base thus not third party any more. Any third party drivers would
    >> be something like the latest Nvidia ones which need to be downloaded and
    >> compiled too. And since the Linux kernel versions anf GCC change quite a
    >> lot this can be quite a deal with one having to kill X/Gnome , export
    >> the correct CC value to match the kernel installed and then get driver
    >> specific source code headers and kernel headers and then compile and
    >> install. Or at least on Debian.
    >>


    > and yet Ubuntu has handled that fine for quite some time. F8 too.
    > Perhaps you are doing something wrong?


    Wouldn't be the first time, would it.

    --
    Free-BSD 7.0, PC-BSD 1.4
    Linux systems: PCLOS 2007,Fedora 8, Kubuntu 7.10.
    Testing: Mandrake One 2008.1 RC1
    -- On 64bit systems --

  15. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    DFS wrote:
    > High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >
    >> It just tells me that there are some real shortfalls with
    >> Windows.

    >
    > But none with Linux/OSS, of course.


    Ca...Ching!

    --
    HPT

  16. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    High Plains Thumper wrote:

    > It just tells me that there are some real shortfalls with Windows.


    But none with Linux/OSS, of course.




  17. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    High Plains Thumper wrote:
    > DFS wrote:
    >> High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >>
    >>> It just tells me that there are some real shortfalls with
    >>> Windows.

    >>
    >> But none with Linux/OSS, of course.

    >
    > Ca...Ching!


    You got that right - I made $4-digits yesterday developing on Windows, for
    Windows. How did you do yesterday developing on Linux, for Linux? Not very
    well, I'm sure.

    Ca...Ching! is the best slink/evasion you can make? You really are an
    "advocate": lies, insults, evades, slinks away.

    Guess what, nanny? Since the charter is "discuss the benefits of Linux
    compared to other operating systems", I'd say you post off-charter about 90%
    of the time. In fact, this whole thread is off-topic, but here you are
    sliming around in it like a good cola worm.




  18. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    DFS wrote:

    > High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >> DFS wrote:
    >>> High Plains Thumper wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> It just tells me that there are some real shortfalls with
    >>>> Windows.
    >>>
    >>> But none with Linux/OSS, of course.

    >>
    >> Ca...Ching!

    >
    > You got that right - I made $4-digits yesterday developing on Windows, for
    > Windows. How did you do yesterday developing on Linux, for Linux? Not
    > very well, I'm sure.


    I can very well imagine the only 4 digits you got yesterday...
    Though I'd prefer not to dwell on it.

    --
    Regards,

    Gregory.
    Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

  19. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Gregory Shearman wrote:
    > DFS wrote:


    >> You got that right - I made $4-digits yesterday developing on
    >> Windows, for Windows. How did you do yesterday developing on Linux,
    >> for Linux? Not very well, I'm sure.

    >
    > I can very well imagine the only 4 digits you got yesterday...
    > Though I'd prefer not to dwell on it.


    Envy is such a petty emotion.





  20. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Gregory Shearman wrote:
    > DFS wrote:
    >
    >> You got that right - I made $4-digits yesterday developing
    >> on Windows, for Windows. How did you do yesterday
    >> developing on Linux, for Linux? Not very well, I'm sure.

    >
    > I can very well imagine the only 4 digits you got yesterday...
    > Though I'd prefer not to dwell on it.


    $4 digits - $1 + $1 + $1 + $1

    --
    HPT

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