Remembering Why I don't like Windows - Linux

This is a discussion on Remembering Why I don't like Windows - Linux ; Erik Funkenbusch wrote: > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote: > >> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo: >> >>> As is usual with people who make this argument, they take a 6 month old ...

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Thread: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

  1. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> As is usual with people who make this argument, they take a 6 month old
    >>> (or less) copy of Linux and compare it to a 7 year old copy of Windows,
    >>> then complain because Windows can't find the hardware for devices that
    >>> didn't even exist when it was created.

    >>
    >> But, but, I thought SP2 for XP was only a couple years old!

    >
    > He didn't install XP with SP2. He installed either the GA or SP1, because
    > he admitted he had to install SP2 as a patch later.


    So what is different on that install then? It is still a SP2 system then

    >>>> And, BTW, this computer has a DVD player installed. What do you think
    >>>> my chances are of playing a movie in it right now?
    >>>
    >>> About the same as being able to legally play a DVD on Linux in the US.

    >>
    >> Ah, the old DVD playback is illegal on Linux bull****.

    >
    > In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    > shouldn't, but it does.


    LinDVD exists

    < snip more Erik F bull**** >
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    Making the world safe for competing operating systems.


  2. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:51:35 +0000, [H]omer wrote:

    > No, it's utter bull****. I've had an XP system infected /before/ the OS
    > had even completed /re-installing/!!! Specifically the Blaster worm,
    > which caused the infamous "Windows must now restart because the RPC
    > service terminated unexpectedly" continuous reboot cycle.


    Precisely why it couldn't have been that, or he wouldn't have been able to
    do all the things he did, then run a virus scan, etc..

  3. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    AZ Nomad wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:44:56 -0500, chrisv wrote:
    >> [H]omer wrote:

    >
    >>>> See: http://www.news.com/2100-7349_3-5313402.html
    >>>>
    >>>> Don't connect that new PC to the Internet before taking
    >>>> security precautions, researchers at the Internet Storm Center warned
    >>>> Tuesday. According to the researchers, an unpatched Windows PC
    >>>> connected to the Internet will last for only about 20 minutes before
    >>>> it's compromised by malware, on average. That figure is down from
    >>>> around 40 minutes, the group's estimate in 2003.

    >>> More like about 20 seconds, IME.

    >
    >> It's really amazing that M$ hasn't released an XP SP3, or other
    >> security roll-up release. A new SP2 install is literally years
    >> behind, until the lengthily update process is done.

    >
    > That would mean that XP still exists.
    >
    > Microsoft is still at war against hackers with their WGA. They're on probably
    > their sixth version and all have been broken. Perhaps microsoft is waiting
    > until they make what they think is an unbreakable WGA before they assemble
    > a new service pack.


    it'll be a looooong time coming then.

  4. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:10:27 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> As is usual with people who make this argument, they take a 6 month old
    >>>> (or less) copy of Linux and compare it to a 7 year old copy of Windows,
    >>>> then complain because Windows can't find the hardware for devices that
    >>>> didn't even exist when it was created.
    >>>
    >>> But, but, I thought SP2 for XP was only a couple years old!

    >>
    >> He didn't install XP with SP2. He installed either the GA or SP1, because
    >> he admitted he had to install SP2 as a patch later.

    >
    > So what is different on that install then? It is still a SP2 system then


    The hardware detection happens during install, not during a SP update.

    You could go in and redetect the hardware manually (it's not that
    difficult, just right click and choose update driver, then let it search)
    (or use Windows Update).

    What I typically do is install the NIC driver, then go to Windows Update,
    then I install any remaining drivers that need to be installed by going to
    the vendors site (usually most get added during windows update). Ron did
    it backwards, he installed all the drivers first then went to windows
    update.

    >> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >> shouldn't, but it does.

    >
    > LinDVD exists


    And only available to OEM's. You can't buy it.

  5. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >> But, but, I thought SP2 for XP was only a couple years old!

    >
    > He didn't install XP with SP2. He installed either the GA or SP1, because
    > he admitted he had to install SP2 as a patch later.


    So he, in fact, did use XP with SP2 in subsequent work.

    >> Ah, the old DVD playback is illegal on Linux bull****.

    >
    > In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    > shouldn't, but it does.


    How can /using/ DeCSS in private violate the DMCA?

    >> The fact is, unless you have all the vendor CDs, installing XP is a
    >> royal pain in the ass, even with SP2.

    >
    > The only driver you typically need is the network driver, then you can get
    > the rest either through Windows Update (80% of the time) or going to the
    > vendors site. I don't find that a pain in the ass at all.


    Well, it is certainly more difficult that apt-get.

    I didn't know you could get chipset drivers through Windows update.

    --
    The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to
    factor large prime numbers.
    -- Bill Gates, The Road Ahead (1995), hardcover edition (corrected in
    paperback)

  6. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:54:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:

    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>> But, but, I thought SP2 for XP was only a couple years old!

    >>
    >> He didn't install XP with SP2. He installed either the GA or SP1, because
    >> he admitted he had to install SP2 as a patch later.

    >
    > So he, in fact, did use XP with SP2 in subsequent work.


    But not during the install, where the hardware detection was the problem.

    >>> Ah, the old DVD playback is illegal on Linux bull****.

    >>
    >> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >> shouldn't, but it does.

    >
    > How can /using/ DeCSS in private violate the DMCA?


    Because it's circumventing the copy protection. Many argue that doing so
    would be fair use, and I would prefer that myself as well, but the DMCA
    has, historically, taken away many fair use rights.

  7. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:02:03 -0400,
    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:54:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >
    >> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>
    >>> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >>> shouldn't, but it does.

    >>
    >> How can /using/ DeCSS in private violate the DMCA?

    >
    > Because it's circumventing the copy protection. Many argue that doing so
    > would be fair use, and I would prefer that myself as well, but the DMCA
    > has, historically, taken away many fair use rights.



    No it's not. Playing the DVD isn't "circumventing the copy protection"
    it's playing the DVD.


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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from
    sarcasm

    -- Erik Naggum

  8. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:

    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:10:27 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> As is usual with people who make this argument, they take a 6 month
    >>>>> old (or less) copy of Linux and compare it to a 7 year old copy of
    >>>>> Windows, then complain because Windows can't find the hardware for
    >>>>> devices that didn't even exist when it was created.
    >>>>
    >>>> But, but, I thought SP2 for XP was only a couple years old!
    >>>
    >>> He didn't install XP with SP2. He installed either the GA or SP1,
    >>> because he admitted he had to install SP2 as a patch later.

    >>
    >> So what is different on that install then? It is still a SP2 system then

    >
    > The hardware detection happens during install, not during a SP update.
    >
    > You could go in and redetect the hardware manually (it's not that
    > difficult, just right click and choose update driver, then let it search)
    > (or use Windows Update).
    >
    > What I typically do is install the NIC driver, then go to Windows Update,
    > then I install any remaining drivers that need to be installed by going to
    > the vendors site (usually most get added during windows update). Ron did
    > it backwards, he installed all the drivers first then went to windows
    > update.
    >
    >>> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >>> shouldn't, but it does.

    >>
    >> LinDVD exists

    >
    > And only available to OEM's. You can't buy it.


    Really Erik? You want to make a bet on that?
    Tell you what: The US is not the world. It is not even the backwater of it
    It is just a small part of the world, and rather insignificant on linux
    things
    --
    Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
    Let it get in YOUR way. The problem for your problem.


  9. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:32:06 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:02:03 -0400,
    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:54:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>
    >>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>
    >>>> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >>>> shouldn't, but it does.
    >>>
    >>> How can /using/ DeCSS in private violate the DMCA?

    >>
    >> Because it's circumventing the copy protection. Many argue that doing so
    >> would be fair use, and I would prefer that myself as well, but the DMCA
    >> has, historically, taken away many fair use rights.

    >
    > No it's not. Playing the DVD isn't "circumventing the copy protection"
    > it's playing the DVD.


    You can't play the DVD without either a licensed player, or circumventing
    the copy protection, even if you're not copying it, you're circumventing
    the protection.

  10. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:43:07 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    >> And only available to OEM's. You can't buy it.

    >
    > Really Erik? You want to make a bet on that?


    http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Produc...e.jsp?p=LinDVD

    "LinDVD, InterVideo's Linux software DVD player, is currently available
    only to manufacturers for evaluation and integration."

    http://www.google.com/search?q=lindv...x=&startPage=1

    "LinDVD from InterVideo is a commercial proprietary software for Linux for
    the playback of DVDs and other multimedia files. This is currently
    available only through manufacturers."

    > Tell you what: The US is not the world. It is not even the backwater of it
    > It is just a small part of the world, and rather insignificant on linux
    > things


    Uh huh.

  11. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:43:07 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >
    >>> And only available to OEM's. You can't buy it.

    >>
    >> Really Erik? You want to make a bet on that?

    >
    > http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Produc...e.jsp?p=LinDVD
    >
    > "LinDVD, InterVideo's Linux software DVD player, is currently available
    > only to manufacturers for evaluation and integration."


    I suspect that link is rather old:

    "At the Linux World tradeshow in Taipei (September 7-9, 2000),
    InterVideo demonstrated fully functional platforms using LinDVD."

    This link indicates it was available via Mandriva:

    http://reddevil62-techhead.blogspot....code-land.html

    "And then there's Mandriva 2008 Power Pack, which includes
    third-party proprietary software like LinDVD, Cedega, the Fluendo
    multimedia codecs and Flash Player. This one you have to buy, of
    course. It's a minefield for those with a strong sense of codec
    guilt, isn't it?"


    --
    The worst programs are the ones where the programmers doing the original
    work don't lay a solid foundation, and then they're not involved in the
    program in the future.
    -- Bill Gates

  12. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Linonut wrote:

    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:43:07 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
    >>
    >>>> And only available to OEM's. You can't buy it.
    >>>
    >>> Really Erik? You want to make a bet on that?

    >>
    >> http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Produc...e.jsp?p=LinDVD
    >>
    >> "LinDVD, InterVideo's Linux software DVD player, is currently available
    >> only to manufacturers for evaluation and integration."

    >
    > I suspect that link is rather old:
    >
    > "At the Linux World tradeshow in Taipei (September 7-9, 2000),
    > InterVideo demonstrated fully functional platforms using LinDVD."
    >
    > This link indicates it was available via Mandriva:
    >
    >

    http://reddevil62-techhead.blogspot....code-land.html
    >
    > "And then there's Mandriva 2008 Power Pack, which includes
    > third-party proprietary software like LinDVD, Cedega, the Fluendo
    > multimedia codecs and Flash Player. This one you have to buy, of
    > course. It's a minefield for those with a strong sense of codec
    > guilt, isn't it?"
    >
    >


    That is not the sole way to get it. You can actually *buy* LinDVD alone here
    in germany.
    As I already said, backwaters like the US are often behind. And Erik
    demonstrates time and again that he knows **** about the things he talks
    about
    --
    There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.


  13. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    * Peter Köhlmann peremptorily fired off this memo:

    > As I already said, backwaters like the US are often behind. And Erik
    > demonstrates time and again that he knows **** about the things he talks
    > about


    Buy American!



    --
    If I'd had some set idea of a finish line, don't you think I would have
    crossed it years ago?
    -- Bill Gates

  14. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:51:43 -0400,
    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:32:06 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:
    >
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:02:03 -0400,
    >> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:54:41 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >>>>
    >>>>> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >>>>> shouldn't, but it does.
    >>>>
    >>>> How can /using/ DeCSS in private violate the DMCA?
    >>>
    >>> Because it's circumventing the copy protection. Many argue that doing so
    >>> would be fair use, and I would prefer that myself as well, but the DMCA
    >>> has, historically, taken away many fair use rights.

    >>
    >> No it's not. Playing the DVD isn't "circumventing the copy protection"
    >> it's playing the DVD.

    >
    > You can't play the DVD without either a licensed player, or circumventing
    > the copy protection, even if you're not copying it, you're circumventing
    > the protection.




    False.

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    --
    Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
    Just because I'm moody doesn't mean you're not irritating



  15. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:36:45 -0400, Erik Funkenbusch
    wrote:

    > As is usual with people who make this argument, they take a 6 month
    > old (or less) copy of Linux and compare it to a 7 year old copy of
    > Windows, then complain because Windows can't find the hardware for
    > devices that didn't even exist when it was created.


    That would be a valid point if Microsoft issued new releases as often as
    Debian does.


    --
    -| Bob Hauck
    -| http://www.haucks.org/

  16. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Bob Hauck wrote:
    > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    >
    >> As is usual with people who make this argument, they take a 6 month old
    >> (or less) copy of Linux and compare it to a 7 year old copy of Windows,
    >> then complain because Windows can't find the hardware for devices that
    >> didn't even exist when it was created.

    >
    > That would be a valid point if Microsoft issued new releases as often as
    > Debian does.


    I find that ironic coming from Erik, it is an admittance that Linux is
    superior to Windows. After all, they supposedly sell Windows with the
    latest service release, which should after all have updated it.

    It just tells me that there are some real shortfalls with Windows.

    --
    HPT

  17. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    On 2008-03-13, Linonut claimed:
    > * Erik Funkenbusch peremptorily fired off this memo:
    >
    >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:43:55 -0400, Linonut wrote:
    >>>
    >>> But, but, I thought SP2 for XP was only a couple years old!

    >>
    >> He didn't install XP with SP2. He installed either the GA or SP1, because
    >> he admitted he had to install SP2 as a patch later.

    >
    > So he, in fact, did use XP with SP2 in subsequent work.
    >
    >>> Ah, the old DVD playback is illegal on Linux bull****.

    >>
    >> In the US it is, it violates the DMCA. I agree with everyone that it
    >> shouldn't, but it does.

    >
    > How can /using/ DeCSS in private violate the DMCA?
    >
    >>> The fact is, unless you have all the vendor CDs, installing XP is a
    >>> royal pain in the ass, even with SP2.

    >>
    >> The only driver you typically need is the network driver, then you can get
    >> the rest either through Windows Update (80% of the time) or going to the
    >> vendors site. I don't find that a pain in the ass at all.

    >
    > Well, it is certainly more difficult that apt-get.
    >
    > I didn't know you could get chipset drivers through Windows update.


    Well, he /did/ say 80%. And he was /probably/ only considering MS stuff
    in that 80% figure. Which is a really rotten number.

    Of course, with linux one can get 100% of everything updated or patched
    most of the time. No going to a vendor's site to get it. In the few
    cases where something outside the package manager is acquired, that
    would still leave in excess of 99% that comes direectly through a
    repository of some sort.

    And that linux figure actually /includes/ things that allow the user to
    do work. Work other than getting spied upon and registering a temporary
    license to use software you get to rent, but not own, that is.

    --
    Don't you feel more like you do now than you did when you came in?

  18. Re: Remembering Why I don't like Windows

    Peter Köhlmann wrote:

    >That is not the sole way to get it. You can actually *buy* LinDVD alone here
    >in germany.
    >As I already said, backwaters like the US are often behind.


    I wouldn't say it's a "backwater". I would say that it's run by the
    evil businessman...


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